patrick.net

https://elizabethwarren.co/

joshuatrio says

Actually, it was worse, but mostly left sided with Iwog and Dan spamming the forum non-stop.

The Iwog's and Dan's were butthurt immediately after the election and vanished.

Iwog and Dan were very anti-left and attacked SJW and anti-fa all the time. You are remembering very incorrectly.

joshuatrio says

The Iwog's and Dan's were butthurt immediately after the election and vanished.

Both left because of the trolls and the right-wing politics on patrick.net. Dan even advocated Trump over Clinton. And both left well after Trump was elected. You are remembering very incorrectly.

patrick.net has lost a lot of users over the past five years. You don't see any of the moderates here anymore. So Marcus does have a point when he says patrick.net used to be different. There used to be a wide range of opinions and that is no longer the case. Like them or not, both Iwog and Dan always backed up their statements with evidence and tried to make rational arguments, and they were very consistent in their views. Most importantly their views were not consistently left or right. They were completely against identity politics and both were attacked by left-leaning users on patrick.net. Calling them left-leaning doesn't work. Iwog spent months filming and attacking anti-fa and he was one of the producers of the Red Pill documentary which attacked feminists. They were politically incorrect.

Personally, I wish a lot of the old users would come back and patrick.net had a politically diverse set of users that reflected America at large. It was a more interesting site when different sides were represented and did talk to each other. Unfortunately, over time everything degraded to a shit throwing contest and lots of people started leaving. The site is poorer for this.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Unfortunately, that has palpable real world consequences, like being bragged about as a minority hire. Nor was Harvard the only time Warren used "Native American" in an application process. It was beneficial to both her and the employer.

I would call this a problem with Harvard, not Warren. Any time I hear a company bragging about minority hires or being woman-old, I hear racism and sexism. Everything should be a meritocracy. The problem is with Affirmative Action, not with anyone checking off checkboxes about ethnic backgrounds.

doik says

I would call this a problem with Harvard, not Warren. Any time I hear a company bragging about minority hires or being woman-old, I hear racism and sexism. Everything should be a meritocracy. The problem is with Affirmative Action, not with anyone checking off checkboxes about ethnic backgrounds.

Potential Students/Employees checking off of the "Wrong" boxes is related to the desire of Academia and Corporations to have a "diverse" workforce.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

the desire of Academia and Corporations to have a "diverse" workforce

This is the problem. Everything should be a meritocracy.

doik says

patrick.net has lost a lot of users over the past five years. You don't see any of the moderates here anymore.

A lot of that is because the country is splitting.

I'm a moderate. I could have voted for Bernie - but thought Trump had the P&V to not only win but to get shit done. My guess has turned out right.

My #1 issues were anti-"Free" Trade Extremist, followed by controlling Unfettered Immigration (esp. unvetted Middle Easterners and Rapefugees), and anti-SJW. I've gotten much of what I wanted.

Hillary and Bernie both would have accommodated the SJWs and extreme mass immigration forces, Bernie might have done something with Trade (but a GOPe-Dem Neoliberal coalition in Congress would have stopped him), but Hillary certainly wouldn't have had.

The contention that Hillary who spent years campaigning for TPP as the Gold Standard and talking it up at her 6 figure speeches wouldn't pull on TPP what Theresa May is pulling of Brexit is simply not likely in my opinion.

The Truth is we have an Old Fashioned Manhattan Liberal as President, somebody who could have run as a Democrat in 1952-1988 and not have been particularly controversial on his stances (abortion being the only outlier).

doik says

Personally, I wish a lot of the old users would come back and patrick.net had a politically diverse set of users that reflected America at large. It was a more interesting site when different sides were represented and did talk to each other. Unfortunately, over time everything degraded to a shit throwing contest

Let me refresh your memory.
Patrick.net was focused first on real estate speculation. I joined back then and found the discussion lively if prone to excessive shit throwing.
Later the real estate bubble burst, rebuilt itself, and real estate was no longer as interesting, so the primary focus turned to politics. Lots of monkey poo hitting the walls around then. Most threads which got any replies were hijacked by a few users like iWog and Dan to verbally abuse each other until they finally got bored of it and the thread ended. It wasn’t that informative. Just a lot of wading through insults and hyperbole.

Then Patrick decided to ban the insults and moderate the site somewhat. Simple rule: don’t insult the other users. This decision was already unpopular with the primary offenders iWog and Dan, and when Patrick made Goran the politics moderator instead of iWog who wanted the job with the heat of a thousand suns, he threw an epic shit fit and left. Same with Dan.

Since then things have settled somewhat, and traffic appears to be lively enough to get some good discussion!

We do need more leftist trolls to humiliate tho. I know you’re saying you’re not a Leftist, but can you play one on tv? LOL!

Meme bombing "debate": for people with attention spans just long enough to read a meme. Some of them are funny though.

Quigley says

iWog and Dan to verbally abuse each other until they finally got bored of it and the

Iwog and Dan insulted some users, but only after those users were far more abusive. Hate breeds hate. When vitriol was not slung at them, they had calm, rational discussions. Just look at the times those two argued with each other. They never insulted each other or others who didn't troll them no matter how much they disagreed. And there were far worse things said by users who are still here.

And its not just those two who left. Dozens of users left at around the same time or a year or two earlier. All these people left because patrick.net got so nasty like every college campus in the country.

I don't think any of the users who left were trolls who just wanted to piss people off. I think they were passionate about what they believed and relentless in defending their positions. They didn't just assert things. They supported their statements with evidence. If anything, some of them wrote long thesis papers with way to many references to support their positions.

Quigley says

Then Patrick decided to ban the insults and moderate the site somewhat. Simple rule: don’t insult the other users. This decision was already unpopular with the primary offenders iWog and Dan, and when Patrick made Goran the politics moderator instead of iWog who wanted the job with the heat of a thousand suns, he threw an epic shit fit and left. Same with Dan.

Yeah, this is not what happened. iwog did throw a fit when he left, but neither he nor Dan left because of the anti-insult rules. They left because Patrick was not enforcing bans on trolls that he had previously kicked out. I can't find any of iwog's posts -- was his account and all his posts deleted? -- but I remember his last words being something like "and now I find that I must join Dan in abandoning this site to the trolls." Anyhow, it's not reasonable to say that iwog was completely full of shit. He had a lot of good investment advice, good housing advice, and interesting ideas. I would love to see him back, but I doubt that will ever happen.

I don't think you have to agree with most of the things people say to like them. I don't think you even have to agree with any of the things people say to like them. As long as they are presenting an honest case with some bearing on reality, the conversation is worth having. What I saw when these two were still here was everybody throwing shit at everybody except their close friends. It was a free-for-all. You can't blame only two users for that. Everyone got poo on their hands.

I think that most people on patrick.net, like most people on college campuses, just hate people who play for the other team regardless of how those people conduct a conversation. I disagree with half the things Milo says, but since he makes a sincere and honest argument and tries to be factually accurate, I always respect him even if I'm on the other side. The same goes for Jordon Peterson, Christopher Hitchens, or any other rational speaker.

Milo is a perfect example. He's a provocateur, but not a troll. A troll attempts to disrupt a conversation and silence others. A provocateur tries to crush his opponent by making that opponent sound ridiculous. Maybe that's also a bad thing, but its not trolling and its not poo flinging. I think that iwog and Dan were provocateurs, not trolls, and they left because they felt that conversations on patrick.net were no longer possible. They simply gave up on the community. I don't see how we're better off losing such people or the other users that left. I also miss Vincent, emmae, and turtle dove. A social network becomes an echo chamber if only people with the same views are tolerated.

By the way, was iwog's entire post history deleted? Did he do that himself? Can a user do that? Did Patrick delete him? If so, why? I thought he and Patrick were friends.

doik says

I also miss Vincent, emmae, and turtle dove

Haven’t seen Vicente around. Ellie Mae hasn’t been about either unfortunately. I think she got attacked by some haters. Turtledove was the saddest departure, as she died IRL. I’d had correspondence with her via email for a couple years before her accident, and she was a truly nice person.

doik says

Iwog and Dan insulted some users, but only after those users were far more abusive

Are we talking about the same forum?

Iwog went batshit crazy on people - including myself - starting a few days after the election. I seldom insulted him, and only when he got nasty like he could sometimes.

The "But the Captain!" was just an excuse, it was the Insults they liked.

Heraclitusstudent says

Meme bombing "debate": for people with attention spans just long enough to read a meme. Some of them are funny though.

The Left can't Meme.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Heraclitusstudent says

Meme bombing "debate": for people with attention spans just long enough to read a meme. Some of them are funny though.

The Left can't Meme.

Oh yes they can. But unfortunately the left in real life are walking talking memes!!!

personal

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

doik says

patrick.net has lost a lot of users over the past five years. You don't see any of the moderates here anymore.

A lot of that is because the country is splitting.

I'm a moderate. I could have voted for Bernie - but thought Trump had the P&V to not only win but to get shit done. My guess has turned out right.

My #1 issues were anti-"Free" Trade Extremist, followed by controlling Unfettered Immigration (esp. unvetted Middle Easterners and Rapefugees), and anti-SJW. I've gotten much of what I wanted.

Hillary and Bernie both would have accommodated the SJWs and extreme mass immigration forces, Bernie might have done something with Trade (but a GOPe-Dem Neoliberal coalition in Congress would have stopped him), but Hillary certainly wouldn't have had.

The contention that Hillary who spent years campaigning for TPP as the Gold Standard and talking it up a...

Yep. Well said. Many moderates moved to Trump and caused his victory. Some just cared about a few topics if not one topic. Such as illegal immigration. Or anti straight white or anti male discrimination. Or lower taxes. Or better foreign policy. Trump had the answer and delivered on all. That made the feelz not facts based peole mad and split the nation. Simple.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The Left can't Meme.

You're right. They are trying to be nuanced and show up their knowledge.
Propaganda doesn't work that way :-)

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Iwog went batshit crazy on people - including myself - starting a few days after the election. I

Iwog was very aggressive in his debating style, but not threatening, or otherwise crossing lines. I think the level of incivility was not unexpected for an Internet free speech forum. There were trolls like 'piggy' who were 10 times more annoying.
Iwog was also informed and sharp. His opinion was worth reading most of the time. So a loss for the forum overall.

Heraclitusstudent says

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The Left can't Meme.

You're right. They are trying to be nuanced and show up their knowledge.
Propaganda doesn't work that way :-)

They are the least nuanced but unfortunately also not funny. Racist.exe is the least nuanced program of all, even less nuanced than the westboro baptists.

This was at bully boy pulpit before Trump.

Since Trump came along the bullies live vicariously through Trump claiming victory through his every offense.

That’s the one area that Trump will never disappoint, offensiveness.

Heraclitusstudent says

Iwog was very aggressive in his debating style, but not threatening, or otherwise crossing lines.

Ha. Not even close.

personal

Too many people are used to a quick smile at memes they agree with and can't handle a frank discussion that force them to think, and occasionally revise their opinions.
Iwog left many feeling butt hurt after scuffles.
That caused a lot of resentment.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The Left can't Meme.

Because they are afraid of offending anyone except Fucking White Males.

Call It Crazy says

That’s true.

You’re neglecting all the substance he would dig out an offer along with his arguments which would leave his opponent having to refute references instead of blather and snarky quip.

Doesn’t give you that nice feeling of winning all the time, but substance is golden especially in a forum, unless that forum might be the place were bully boys pound their chests.

Iwog is always welcome back to bring "substance" to his arguments, just without the personal insults he loved to sprinkle around.

Obviously Iwog himself felt he couldn't fit that standard, so he "left" (aka says he left but comes back occasionally with sock puppet accounts).

personal

Just look at the level of the comments in this thread alone. LOL

Trump DNA results re out: 97% Orangutan*


Ah... not even funny!
* though it's a fact.

Call It Crazy says

Well then I bow to your superior knowledge of behind the scenes patrick.net.

Not withstanding that I don’t see anything that parallels the level of effort and time that Iwog would put in before he left.

I say you’re grossly miss characterizing to the point of gaslighting the contributions that Iwog made to this forum, but hey, everybody’s entitled to an opinion.

Like I said, Iwog is always welcome back. No one chased him off. He simply disagreed with the moderating of his content to conform to @patrick's wishes.

That's his choice. It's a free country (for now).

Heraclitusstudent says

You're right. They are trying to be nuanced and show up their knowledge.
Propaganda doesn't work that way :-)

This is a wonderful meme:



It perfectly expresses the cognitive dissonance of the Leftist Position on Immigration.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

It perfectly expresses the cognitive dissonance of the Leftist Position on Immigration.

"Foreigners come in", and "You, STFU and let them". No dissonance there.