patrick.net

Goran_K says

His exact words were “the crown prince had denied any knowledge of the murder” and Pompeo said he would wait to make a decision about the incident until Saudi Arabian officials completed their investigation.

Pompeo also flew between Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Trump said they'll wait until all the investigations (US, Turkey, SA) are over.

Good, no reason to let the Deep State rush things like they did with Libya and Syria.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Not crying over Terrorist Shills, the kind who are friends with OBL, who backed the brutal Algerian Islamists back in the 90s by setting up a "Democratic Organization", who back Hamas and apologize for Jihadis Worldwide is pretty normal.

I've seen no evidence that Khashoggi was any of those things so the point is moot.

I’m not happy guy got gutted, but I ain’t sad either. He was asking for it.

I'm siding with Patrick here no matter how sketchy the guy this should not stand and I expect the Trump administration to act on it. Doesn't mean they have to go to war. It's a disagreement with Trump's policies if nothing happens, would have been the same for Obummer. Maybe this event can be used to advance further political change over there.

tatupu70 says

I've seen no evidence that Khashoggi was any of those things so the point is moot.

You mean the editorial he wrote for the WaPo a few weeks ago defending the Muslim Brotherhood?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/08/28/the-u-s-is-wrong-about-the-muslim-brotherhood-and-the-arab-world-is-suffering-for-it/?utm_term=.b9d1cf309434
His first "Democratic" Organization was set up to promote and apologize for the brutal and short lived Islamist Regime in Algeria in the early 90s?
That he was on the verge of establishing another Pro-Muslim Brotherhood, Pro-Shar'ia "Democracy" organ called "DAWN"?
His lifelong friendship with MB members and his self-same membership?
His employment with the Middle East Monitor and Eye, Muslim Brotherhood underwritten publications?

The attempt to turn a Propagandist Shill into a voice of Oppressed Journalists everywhere is one big barf bag.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You mean the editorial he wrote for the WaPo a few months ago defending the Muslim Brotherhood?
His first "Democratic" Organization was set up to promote and apologize for the brutal and short lived Islamist Regime in Algeria in the early 90s?
That he was on the verge of establishing another Pro-Muslim Brotherhood, Pro-Shar'ia "Democracy" organ called "DAWN"?
His lifelong friendship with MB members and his self-same membership?

None of those things show he supported terrorism.

tatupu70 says

None of those things show he supported terrorism.

Khashoggi on 9/11: I'ts America's Fault. Also, Obama was a nice boy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/10/afghanistan.terrorism18

Khashoggi on Hamas Suicide Bombers and Rockets on Civilians: Totally Justified.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-khashoggi-was-a-victim-of-saudi-terror-and-a-supporter-of-palestinian-terrorism-1.6571267

Yup. Guy was trash. Then he got cut up and put into the trash. Sucks for him.

Khashoggi was Prince Turki's media adviser in the 90s. You all remember Price Turki, he was the Saudi Intel Chief from 1977 to just ten days before 9/11.

Here's what the 20th Hijacker had to say about Prince Turki:

Zacarias Moussaoui made the statements in testimony filed in Manhattan federal court on Tuesday by lawyers for attack victims who accuse Saudi Arabia in a suit of providing material support to al Qaeda.

He said a list of donors from the late 1990s that he drafted during al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden’s tenure included some “extremely famous” Saudi officials, including Prince Turki al-Faisal Al Saud, a former Saudi intelligence chief.

“Shaykh Osama wanted to keep a record who give money because ... who is to be listened to or who contribute to - to the jihad,” said Moussaoui, a 46-year-old French native who pleaded guilty to terrorism charges in 2005.

Moussaoui said he met in Kandahar with an official from Saudi Arabia’s Washington embassy. Moussaoui said they were supposed to go to Washington together to find a location “suitable to launch a stinger attack” on the U.S. presidential plane, Air Force One.

Remember the Saudi's policies of paying Wahabi extremists to go abroad instead of causing problems at home? Prince Turki was a primary architect of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Faisal_Al_Saud

Khashoggi wanted Political Islam. He and Osama bin Laden and Alaweed bin Talal are all from the same era - they grew up in the 70s and 80s in an age where Political Islam was the wave of the future.

In the United States, the Democracy is constrained by a Liberal Bill of Rights.

Khashoggi wants Democracy, but Democracy constrained by Shar'ia.

In Khashoggi's Democracy, Clerics vet all candidates who must meet their approval to stand for election, and no law they pass can be contrary to Shari'a.

A bill is passed that Homosexuals not executed? SHAR'IA SAYS NO! Struck down for being "Un-shari'a-tutitonal"
A law is passed that Muslims can convert away from Islam? SHAR'IA SAYS NO! Struck down for being "Un-shar'ia-tutional"

Khashoggi's beef with MbS isn't the Saudi Monarchy, it's that MbS is pursuing Liberal Reforms and reducing the reach of the Committee of Vice and Virtue (Islamic Police).
Khashoggi wants MORE Islamic Policing, just in the context of a Cleric-vetted elected system.

The WaPo and the bin Talal controlled and financed think tanks and the MB sympathizers like Brennan in the Deep State downplay Khashoggi's commitment to Shar'ia. The first and last also want revenge for the ending of the Iran Deal and Saudi Arabia's support of the termination.

Finally, there is Presidential Directive 11, made in 2011, that recognizes strategic alliances with Political Islam - read Muslim Brotherhood - to achieve certain goals.

Wow--the personal smear campaign is in full force. Obviously the Republican talking points are out there and being communicated heavily. Glad to see some of the folks have gotten them.

It's so funny to see Khashoggi being linked to terrorism as if that's why he was killed. If he actually WAS in favor of terrorism, he probably would not only be alive, but would have a job with the Royal Family. The Saudis are, and always have been, the #1 funder of terrorism and fundamentalist Islam in the world.

Goran_K says

Guantanamo Bay and water boarding experts disagree.

People who have actually served and have been there and done that like our sec of defense disagree with you and people who are 5 time draft dodgers. What in your long and distinguished military experience leads you to believe torture works? Especially since the wmd intelligence that convinced congress authorize war in Iraq was false information by Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi provided under torture. That worked out well.

It amazes me that there is such fake outrage about a Saudi guy abused by the Saudis who are historically mean guys anyway.

Because Turkey is involved, the whole thing stinks.

Recall the movie "Lawrence of Arabia" when the Arabs were trying to get rid of Turkish control in 1916. After the allies won WWI they got Saudi sovereignty and it was adios Turks (Ottomans)

So, there is no love lost between Turkey and the Saudis. Turkey also doesn't particularly like the USA.

The media is trying to pin the tail on the donkey with blaming Pres. Trump somehow for not being upset enough with the Saudis.

Meanwhile in Mexico, tens of thousands of people are killed by other Mexicans and by the Mexican Army and Marines yet we want more of them to come in here?

Saudi Arabia is no threat in any way to the USA; Mexico on the other hand is. The level of ignorance, violence, drunkenness and anti-American sentiment is astounding if you actually live there. If you visit it's fun because you are a tourist and everyone likes you.

tatupu70 says

None of those things show he supported terrorism.

It's true because I say it's true. That's the way it works.

Hey two scooops. Still working on the list of people saiddi's killed in their embassies and taleil sent to harvard law for islmic studies. ROFLOL. Your arguments have long since become a joke. MBS stepped on his dick big time and showed the whole world who he really was doing it. Give it up.

clambo says

Saudi Arabia is no threat in any way to the USA;

9/11 would seem to disagree with you. The threat is there every single day of the next one. I haven't heard of the new kinder gentler KSA taking any steps (as in actually doing anything not talking about doing something. Form a committee is the oldest do nothing dodge in history) to rein in support of terrorism around the world coming from KSA. The new kinder gentler KSA is actively funding and using Al-Qaida in Yemen as we speak. Which makes the US and Al-Qaida very ironic and unwilling allies in Yemen. I wonder what projects this branch of Al-Qaida will be working on after the Yemen war?

clambo says

Mexico on the other hand is.

Are the mexicans planning to take back texas? I'm pretty sure they don't want it back if it includes ted cruz.

Still happy that Saudi Arabia is getting some negative press at last, even if the very same people who are complaining now had no problem at all with Hillary being so close to them. Sure, the press is almost entirely composed of hypocrites, but in this case they stumbled onto a valid criticism.

bob2356 says

clambo says

Saudi Arabia is no threat in any way to the USA;

9/11 would seem to disagree with you. The threat is there every single day of the next one. I haven't heard of the new kinder gentler KSA taking any steps (as in actually doing anything not talking about doing something. Form a committee is the oldest do nothing dodge in history) to rein in support of terrorism around the world coming from KSA. The new kinder gentler KSA is actively funding and using Al-Qaida in Yemen as we speak. Which makes the US and Al-Qaida very ironic and unwilling allies in Yemen. I wonder what projects this branch of Al-Qaida will be working on after the Yemen war?

clambo says

Mexico on the other hand is.

Are the mexicans planning to take back texas? I'm pretty sure they don't want it back if it includes ted cruz.

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Strategist says

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Still waiting to hear your plan to bring 25% of the world to it's knees.

How about this as a plan: stop sending money to the main sponsors of terrorism around the world:

Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Iran, to a lesser degree

Strategist says

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Sucking up to Saudi Arabia is an odd way to accomplish this.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

No country is a serious threat to us. Islam is a very serious threat to us, and a very serious threat to the rest of the world. Islam must and will be brought to it's knees.

Still waiting to hear your plan to bring 25% of the world to it's knees.

tatupu70 says

Sucking up to Saudi Arabia is an odd way to accomplish this.

The plan is simple:
Install USA friendly dictators and Kings in power.
Give them arms to go after Islamic countries not friendly to us.
Install friendly dictators in weakened Islamic countries.
Execute radicals, control their education, clamp down on sharia laws.
Fully expose the Muslim world to democracy and western values.
Eliminate madrassas completely.
Islam will be brought to its knees.

Strategist says

The plan is simple:
Install USA friendly dictators and Kings in power.
Give them arms to go after Islamic countries not friendly to us.
Install friendly dictators in weakened Islamic countries.
Execute radicals, control their education, clamp down on sharia laws.
Fully expose the Muslim world to democracy and western values.
Eliminate madrassas completely.
Islam will be brought to its knees.

How's it working out so far for you so far? Got a list of all those US friendly dictators and kings for us? Maybe you can add it to two scoops lists.

Still waiting for the folks that paid for Obama's education. I'm sure that's coming real soon...

bob2356 says

Strategist says

The plan is simple:
Install USA friendly dictators and Kings in power.
Give them arms to go after Islamic countries not friendly to us.
Install friendly dictators in weakened Islamic countries.
Execute radicals, control their education, clamp down on sharia laws.
Fully expose the Muslim world to democracy and western values.
Eliminate madrassas completely.
Islam will be brought to its knees.

How's it working out so far for you so far? Got a list of all those US friendly dictators and kings for us? Maybe you can add it to two scoops lists.

It's working out pretty well since Trump became President. We have lots of Islamic puppets.
Saudi Crown Prince
Jordan King Abdulla
Egypt
Tunisia
UAE
Kuwait

tatupu70 says

I'm sure you'll provide evidence of this at the same time you show evidence of the folks who supposedly paid for Obama's education.

Like I said, I've been asking why Obama didn't put sanctions on Saudi Arabia and signed the Iran Deal despite years and years of the execution of scores of gays, "Witches", and teenage protesters. I've asked this long in advance of any questions about Obama's Harvard Law being paid by Foreign Donors. So I won't answer, until I receive a specific answer.

Surely so many of these most severe human rights penalties, often visited on those totally apolitical, merits punishment and certainly not handing back money long impounded.

Let's see if Tatupu and Bob will answer:
Please explain the logic of the Obama Administration and their many supporters in allowing those things to pass without any actual economic sanctions or other punishments.

Once I get an answer, I will provide my multitude of links showing how Saudis and MB affiliates provided cash to American students, including an US Black Nationalist leader testifying to a certain famous ex-President.

tatupu70 says

Sucking up to Saudi Arabia is an odd way to accomplish this.

Did Hillary and the Clinton Foundation return their donations from Saudi Arabia after witches were murdered in 2011?
https://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/index.html

Again, what punishments did Obama visit upon Saudi Arabia and Iran for their multitude of executions and tortures against Gays, "Witches", and Protesters - some of them teenagers.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/17/iran-persecution-gay-community-revealed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/07/iran-executes-men-homosexuality-charges

Executions of Gays hit 26 year highs mere weeks after the Iran Deal was implemented.
https://www.newsweek.com/g00/iran-executions-highest-level-26-years-435781?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3d&i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=14

Obama was sure standing up for human rights and the LGBT community with those Iranians when he gave them their impounded money back.

bob2356 says

How's it working out so far for you so far? Got a list of all those US friendly dictators and kings for us? Maybe you can add it to two scoops lists.

That reminds me, how many investor conferences did the NYT, Economist, WaPo and other Globalist Rags boycott when Erdogan made Turkey the #1 Jailer of Journalists in the World?

What penalties did Obama impose on Turkey?

I know I'm comparing and contrasting a lot today, wondering why when the previous President did nothing in the face of repeated and grave human rights offenses against multitudes of people, and the mass imprisonment of journalists and media shutdowns and confiscations, the silence was deafening.

Indeed, the Establishment pretended he was fantastic on Foreign Policy and everything he did was massive progress.

But when OrangeManBad is in the WH, he's expected to terminate relations and remand the resignation of the lone Saudi Government that has actually done some Liberalizing reforms, for the first time in decades, over one Osama bin Laden Buddy and Shill.

tatupu70 says

Wow--the personal smear campaign is in full force. Obviously the Republican talking points are out there and being communicated heavily. Glad to see some of the folks have gotten them.

Telling the truth about Khashoggi isn't a smear campaign.
https://spectator.us/2018/10/washington-post-jamal-khashoggi/

It's fact checking the News, rather then letting them create a "Democratic Activist" narrative that excludes his lifelong support for Political Islamism and his demand that Sharia be the Constitution of his "Democracy".

tatupu70 says

If he actually WAS in favor of terrorism,

He was. He was in favor of suicide bombing, rocket attack on civilian launching, Hamas. That's terrorism,

Japan, Jordan, the EU, Canada, and of course the USA have Hamas as a terrorist group. As does Egypt, because Hamas supplies weapons to Al Qaeda in the Sinai, another Muslim Brotherhood offshoot.

He criticized MbS for supporting "Moderate Islam" and said that Muslim Brotherhood clerics - ones that support tough Sharia Law above Secular Laws - have the correct Moderate Islam.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-khashoggi-was-a-victim-of-saudi-terror-and-a-supporter-of-palestinian-terrorism-1.6571267

Here is Khashoggi praising the Rockets and Explosives of terrorist organization, Hamas.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20140728-a-different-arab-israeli-war-but-will-it-end-differently/

Writing in that vanguard of unbiased Journalism, the Middle East Monitor, which is, of course, tied to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Here is Khashoggi praising Hamas, and winking at Muslim Brotherhood endorsed Egyptian president Morsi ("Hammer of the Christian Copts"), more than hinting he's responsible for making sure Hamas gets rockets and explosives. Those unguided rockets were launched directly at population centers, not military targets.

The Ramadan 1435 (2014 CE) War is a different type of war. It is a purely Palestinian war from start to finish. This is something we have not seen before. The
Arabs are standing completely aloof. In fact, most of them have shown displeasure and impatience. However, the Palestinian has been able to impose his decisions on all. This is how Hamas leaders Khaled Meshaal and Ismail Haniyeh appeared, taking pride as they spoke confidentially, spelling-out new conditions and describing a new reality. They have revived the Palestinian issue.

Everything in this war is new, including the weapons that entered Gaza; how did they enter despite the siege? Thousands of rockets entered a small country that is besieged from the land, sea and air. This fact alone is a miracle. Some people thought the tunnels were for bringing in rice, sugar and diesel as well as a few machine-guns and some explosives. They were closed, destroyed and filled with water. Yet, tons of explosives came through and so did hundreds of rockets. Smuggling 7 metre-long Grad rockets was a miracle. How did they pass through? Did they come through the tunnels or by sea? Hamas possesses hundreds of them; how did they do it? No one can believe that it benefited from the year that deposed President Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood were in power in Cairo. Is it possible that Egypt lowered its gaze during that time allowing the rockets to cross the border? Really? Everyone knows that Morsi did not have a free hand in terms of military and intelligence affairs. Israel and its intelligence must be busy trying to resolve the riddle in order to prevent it from recurring. However, if Hamas under siege was able to smuggle all these weapons, something that the late President Yasser Arafat was unable to do and was punished severely for merely trying despite heading an organisation with extensive international contacts and resources, then the movement can do it again.

The distinguished combat performance of its men and the huge network of tunnels that extends for miles under Gaza and the borders with Israel and Egypt were used brilliantly to inflict unprecedented losses on the enemy; they will be used and reused whenever the enemy invades. All of this proves that the movement wasted no time while ruling in Gaza. The Israelis acknowledge this performance and are apprehensive. This could be the biggest deterrent that will prevent Israel from invading the Strip and reoccupying it. Perhaps Hamas wants Israel to do just this in order to engage in a long war of liberation, a war that will inevitably spill over into the West Bank which is also boiling and might end up overturning everything established post-Oslo.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20140728-a-different-arab-israeli-war-but-will-it-end-differently/

Wahhh, MbS isn't being tough against Israel, looks like he is even considering normalizing relations! Watch out, MbS, Allah is angry with you! Wahhhh!
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20160906-does-saudi-arabia-need-relations-with-israel/

Wahhhh, my poor Muslim Brotherhood government, deposed. How will we help Hamas kill the Jew and finally make the Copts convert or Die?
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20151108-save-egypt/

Read his articles and tell me if this is journalism, or op-ed.

Strategist says

It's working out pretty well since Trump became President. We have lots of Islamic puppets.
Saudi Crown Prince
Jordan King Abdulla
Egypt
Tunisia
UAE
Kuwait

ROFLOL. That's the funniest shit on patnet in years.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

bob2356 says

How's it working out so far for you so far? Got a list of all those US friendly dictators and kings for us? Maybe you can add it to two scoops lists.

That reminds me, how many investor conferences did the NYT, Economist, WaPo and other Globalist Rags boycott when Erdogan made Turkey the #1 Jailer of Journalists in the World?

What penalties did Obama impose on Turkey?

So you don't have anything. No surprise.

Today's quiz.

Did KSA give ttrump the rogue elements story to test drive for them or did trump come up with it and KSA couldn't come up with anything better so they ran with it?

But wait, he got his tie caught in the ceiling fan and strangled before anyone could turn it toff.
No wait, he went into the basement and walked into a clothes line and no one heard him calling for help.
No wait, he was doing an after lunch floss that somehow wound around his neck and .choked him to death.
No wait, he was showing the 15 saudi tourists that just happened to fly in that morning with a bone saw how to skip rope and tangled it around his neck.
No wait, he was walking the embassy dog and the leash tangled around his neck.

bob2356 says

Did KSA give ttrump

What does this have to do with Trump?

KSA is barbaric as fuck by our standards. It's as if the world just realized this and is looking to blame all the worlds problems on Trump.

Weak.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

. So I won't answer, until I receive a specific answer.

Sure right, I'm sure some where some one believes that. Maybe. You won't answer because you don't have an answer.

The political Left in the US sure like their Israel hating Islamists.

bob2356 says

So you don't have anything. No surprise.

You're not going to answer, eh?

bob2356 says

Sure right, I'm sure some where some one believes that. Maybe. You won't answer because you don't have an answer.

I think most people agree that if I answer your question - asked many days after I asked my questions - you'll nitpick my answer but continue to refuse to answer my questions.

The Ball is in your court. If you refuse to put it in play, it's on you.

For now, I take it as a concession that you're admitting it's GoldenChildGood, OrangeManBad.

socal2 says

The political Left in the US sure like their Israel hating Islamists.

And Khashoggi loved Morsi, and cried regularly in the Middle East Monitor, an MB publication, about the fate of Hamas and Syrian Jihadis.

Funny, all of his pieces seem like op-eds, with very little reporting going on.

bob2356 says

Did KSA give ttrump the rogue elements story to test drive for them or did trump come up with it and KSA couldn't come up with anything better so they ran with it?

But wait, he got his tie caught in the ceiling fan and strangled before anyone could turn it toff.
No wait, he went into the basement and walked into a clothes line and no one heard him calling for help.
No wait, he was doing an after lunch floss that somehow wound around his neck and .choked him to death.
No wait, he was showing the 15 saudi tourists that just happened to fly in that morning with a bone saw how to skip rope and tangled it around his neck.
No wait, he was walking the embassy dog and the leash tangled around his neck.

ROFLOL. That's the most brilliant shit on patnet in years.