patrick.net

Lol, you can't seriously think that the Democrats have anything at all other than "Trumped" up (heh) charges based on nothing.

BTW, why is Biden not being prosecuted for using his office to place his son in a high-paying job in a foreign country and eliminating the investigation of that company's corruption?

I still don't know what the hell Trump did that he's being impeached for. Honestly.

He asked for Biden to be investigated that kickback Hunter Biden got.

Stirred the hive there.

NoCoupForYou says

I still don't know what the hell Trump did that he's being impeached for. Honestly.

marcus says

I would ask why are republicans so opposed to seeing the democrats evidence ?

They've already made their case. There is no evidence.marcus says

Illegally holding back Congressional granted military aide, in return for an announcement that Ukraine would be investigating Biden.

Zero evidence suggests this happened.

marcus says

Illegally holding back Congressional granted military aide, in return for an announcement that Ukraine would be investigating Biden.

That's it in a nutshell.

The charge is "Abuse of Power". A meaningless term.

That the President has the power to withhold military aid while recipient countries are vetted for unspecified concerns, is in the US Code. Explicit Presidential power, and granted by Congress no less. I've posted the text at least twice on this board. So that certainly can't be it.

Also, what's coming out now is all the Closed Door Testimony, much of which is favorable to Trump, that Schiff didn't leak to the Press for that reason.

Yeah the D case has been thoroughly thrashed as factless. The narrative has been revealed as purposefully misleading, w hand selected opinions of a tiny minority of activists who hate trump.

Literally zero evidence against trump.

The case against biden and the obama admin is starting to build though. Who knows, maybe this will get interesting

Fartwell begged the general public for audio-video "Evidence" today... after the opening arguments by the House Persecutors. Little late for that, eh?

There's no Quid in Quid Pro Quo, or Quo either, since Zelinsky didn't know the aid was delayed and it wasn't mentioned on the call.

All kinds of shit coming out now, a lot of the testimony behind closed doors was damned exculpatory of Trump, including lots of admissions that the hostile witnesses were simply guessing at motives (Democrat Psychic Mind-reading; see above), and that sky high corruption in Ukraine was a concern, and a new President taking office doesn't instantly disappear all corruption in the country.

Epitome of TDS sufferers.

marcus says

Actually being part of the reality and fact based community, yes I do. Rather than ask why Biden isn't being prosecuted in the middle of a Trump impeachment trial, I would ask why are republicans so opposed to seeing the democrats evidence ?

Reality and facts show a record breaking economy by all measures, and a lack of new wars. Nor is there any evidence of impropriety on his part, in spite of more than three years of frantic searching.

I would ask why Democrats are so opposed to seeing reality and facts.

It's as if hate for Trump has become its own extremist religion. I agree that the whole spectacle of Trump ushering in peace and prosperity seemed unlikely, but there it is right in front of all of us. He deserves some credit.

They are definitely pushing the Debt, it's the only thing the have. Of course, they'd have to ignore that Obama was just as bad with spending, without the attendant results (slowly crawling back from a recession isn't a major achievement relative to the spend), the decades long build up, and ignoring Debt cheering by Krugman and others when the Dems had the House and/or Presidency.

But then again, TDS knows not hypocrisy.

marcus says

Patrick says

BTW, why is Biden not being prosecuted for using his office to place his son in a high-paying job in a foreign country and eliminating the investigation of that company's corruption?

If he's guilty of something he should be.

Wait a minute there!

So you're saying that Trump was right to suggest that the Ukraine look into Biden's flagrant corruption?

marcus says

:

The word you are looking for is due process.

The house procedure lacked due process, therefore couldn't possibly uncover the truth.

Due process w no evidence = case thrown out. That is what the senate should do now.

I hope you realize the republicans WANT a trial. They WANT witnesses, and your team seems all too willing to oblige. This will turn on the D's in a huge way

marcus says

I'm guessing you have no interest in reading the side of the story that says those Biden conspiracy theories are bs.

Are this story backed by facts and/or evidence? If so, share.

marcus says

extent of the corruption in this whole request

to what are you referring? The corruption that Trump wants Ukraine to investigate?

We are all interested in seeing the extent of the aid kickbacks and bribes.

If witnesses are allowed in the senate, you will perhaps hear more about this. Rudi G is also supposedly doing a podcast this week about his "findings". Obvi rudi will be telling one side of the story

marcus says

If Trump had asked them to look in to it, passing information on to our justice department for a legitimate (AND HONEST) investigation that spearheaded domestically, sure.

1) But asking for an announcement of an investigation (not necessarily even doing the investigation per se), with a "I would like you to do us a favor though" implication tied to a 9 figure aid package being on the line. It's basically as close to just paying someone to say something that you want them to say imaginable.

2) I said if he's guilty of something. But when hundreds of million of dollars are on the line, it's a very strange way to go about it.

I'm guessing you have no interest in reading the side of the story that says those Biden conspiracy theories are bs.

There was nothing in the call transcript, or offered in any proof that the episode went down as you frame it.
If Biden committed those crimes, then he's a Criminal Scumbag, foremost and upmost, and all other monikers are not even considered. He's neither the ex-President nor candidate in the upcoming election.
More over the Primaries hadn't even been decided yet, not even the first debate, when Trump made this call. It's sickening Liberals are like little silly kids. "Shot Gun I called IT!" only to get to the ride and Trump is already in the front fucking seat and goddamn driver. And it pisses Liberals off. Fuck Joe Biden he's a suspect and that sorry cock sucker Obama is also a suspect in Sedition and intentionally trying to hoist a coup against the American people and our constitution. Trump interrupted them.

marcus says

1) But asking for an announcement of an investigation (not necessarily even doing the investigation per se), with a "I would like you to do us a favor though" implication tied to a 9 figure aid package being on the line. It's basically as close to just paying someone to say something that you want them to say imaginable.

Except, we know that A) us refers to the USA and B) Zelinsky had no idea aid was being reviewed and C) The aid was approved before the Leakerblower's "facts" were revealed by Schiff.

Also, we already know that Schiff held back exculpatory information, which was the purpose of the closed door, no media hearings. This has been a modus operandi for democratic operatives over the past few years, like at the FISA Courts.

Sadly, what we have now is a Democratic Party that is even further into the corporate globalist agenda to destroy the working class and all national borders than the Republican Party is.

It's terribly ironic, since it used to be only the Republicans who were seeking to drive down wages for the poor through any means available, to increase profits for stockholders.

Now it's the Democrats who are even more under the control of big money, masked by the diversionary "diversity" and racism agendas which deliberately divide us along identity lines. Democrats have been very effectively co-opted and corrupted by globalist money.

So ordinary working people have absolutely no representation in the US government aside from Trump, who is in effect a party of his own.

Just replace "Rapist" with "Trump"

marcus says

There is sufficient evidence.

I notice you cant actually provide or even specifically refer to any evidence...cause there is none.

What you call evidence is hearsay combined w mindreading = absolutely nothing, as confirmed in the house proceedings when they admitted it was all presumption.

There is no evidence.

marcus says

It is known that Guliani met with Zelensky on Trumps behalf asking for a public statement of investigations of Biden. In addition to documents that verify this, there is a witness (Sondland) to that fact. Another witness also overheard Sondland saying that Trump only cared about getting that announcement from Zelensky.

Anonymous hear say is evidence to you? Amazing.

Tell us, accusations of things that arent crimes mean what exactly?

You have no evidence, you have a narrative built on hear say and mind reading. The real kicker is you arent even accusing trump of a crime, just ambiguous "asking for a public statement". Um... who cares? Before a few weeks ago noone even knew who this guy was... and ukraine has already arrested, investigated, and charged individuals for US election manipulation. This big announcement already happened.

What about the evidence this weekend that directly thrashes your narrative? You dont care about actual facts that contradict your tapestry of lies used to build the Schiff narrative.

marcus says

It's pretty hard to imagine a rapists defense attorney getting away with a strategy to deny evidence from being brought forth in a trial, or for that matter a judge allowing it.

What's this damning evidence?

Mind reading and conjecture by Obama Appointees?

What deed that is a high crime or misdemeanor IS Donald Trump being accused of?

marcus says

:
Abuse of power and obstruction of congress. Exactly the kind behavior impeachment is meant to be for.

So it's not the Russians?

marcus says

It's not a CNN/NYT conspiracy.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/04/us/politics/ukraine-text-messages-volker.html

Hand picked texts from people who are neither Trump nor presidential Z, to paint a narrative that isnt there? Lolz, sure its not a CNN/NYT conspiracy. There is literally nothing here, but you've been told to see something by your masters, so you do.

Please show us exact what messages you think are damning and we can discuss.

marcus says

You aren't objective - so I'm pretty much done here.

I've been totally objective, asking for facts and evidence. Schiff cant provide anything but hear say and fake narratives. You are parroting his nonsense, but cant seem to see it. Let's at least be clear who isn't objective.

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

What about the evidence this weekend that directly thrashes your narrative? You dont care about actual facts that contradict your tapestry of lies used to build the Schiff narrative.

Boltons written confirmation of what Trump did ?

Lol, as if we needed more proof that you are full of confirmation bias. You would see evidence of trump guilt in your morning dump. No, this is the actual evidence you are ignoring:

www.youtube.com/embed/AAi8-Rfa6EU

marcus says

:
Abuse of power and obstruction of congress. Exactly the kind behavior impeachment is meant to be for.

Both thrashed as nonsense to anyone who paid attention on saturday.

marcus says

there is a witness (Sondland) to that fact.

marcus says

such as Willianm Taylor saying that SOndland told him that the release of the aid was conditional on the announcement of investigations.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/gop-congressman-slams-sondland-over-presumption/

Sondland admitted everything he testified to was personal "presumption".

You probably dont care about that, or about the fact that Sondland was cherry picked to share his presumptions specifically for his unique and biased perspective.

You also don't care that Trump was checking up on every country for corruption and effectiveness of the aid for the american people. This has been Trump's thing since the beginning with every country he interacts, and its exactly what a president should be doing.

Trump SHOULD make sure Ukraine cooperates with our investigations into corruption. Trump SHOULD make sure the american people are getting a fair shake with aid $$. Trump SHOULD find out what happened in Ukraine regarding our 2016 elections!

You are seeing orange man bad. Meanwhile, actually unbiased voters see a POTUS doing what he should be doing. Results? Trump is more popular every day, despite 98% negative MSM fakenews from the establishment.

Be part of the old establishment if you like Marcus. By definition that makes you a conservative corporatist cheerleader. I'm for the people.

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

Both thrashed as nonsense to anyone who paid attention on saturday.

Hahahaha. So you only listened to the republicans arguments.

no. you only listened to adam schiff though, a proven liar. actual lies, not like "burgers stacked to the moon" fake lies.

you are making shit up because you cant admit you are wrong and deeply biased. ad hom = you lose.

marcus says

the democrats have nothing but "made up facts."

There is hope!

marcus says

Can you show me the most objective summary you can find

Lol, ok you show us how this is done.

Heres my objective summary:

Schiff is afflicted w TDS and most likely hiding corruption by his buddies, therefore orange man bad. Things that noone would've cared about any other POTUS is ora ge man bad w Trump. Considering the proven coup attempt that schiff was involved with, schiff cant allow investigations into Ukraine... therefore he is cooking up this newest orange man bad scheme w no actual evidence. (Please note you still have not provided any actual evidence, nor will you discuss any. Try to be better)

Summary of the defense: discussing corruption and value to "US" as the american taxpayer has been Trumps foreign aid focus, as it should be. It is agreed by everyone involved, D's and R's and foreign diplomats alike, that ukraine was a heavily corrupt place w many many many organizations and individuals worthy of investigation. The first and most relevant is wtf happened with our 2016 election?!

It is Trumps job to investigate and get to the bottom of this, but the D's dont want him to so they are calling foul to stop him. Easy.

Now you go.

marcus says

YOU DON:T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT WE SHOULD BE WILLING TO CONSIDER EVIDENCE THAT YOU CLAIM EXISTS AND THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBPOENAED"

You consistently use ambiguous words so that noone knows what you are saying. Try using proper nouns and perhaps actual descriptive terms, so maybe someone can follow your rambling all caps rants.

marcus says

I don't believe any other POTUS would be so stupid and such a loose cannon as to to insist on a public statement being made about another country investigating a political rival, as a condition for release of $400 million in military aide.

He didn't. There is zero evidence of this.

marcus says

But no ability to break it down one by one.

Um... they did. Trumps legal team went into each 3rd party claim, showed actual perspective and reasons why those claims were just biased presumptions.

I've also asked you to show us the evidence, piece by piece but you cant. You offer links of gossiping text messages that are misinterpreted and used to stuff into your pre-existing narrative. It's called confirmation bias, and you got it bad.

I'm asking you to actually break down your facts one by one, and you cant. There is literally no actual evidence, just hear say and mind reading.

The only mind reading is happening from Schiff and those who buy into his mind reading narrative.

marcus says

Abuse of power and obstruction of congress. Exactly the kind behavior impeachment is meant to be for.

None of the those are crimes. About as relevant as the old crime of "Mopery", which was loitering in an area possibly thinking about prostitution or larceny. It was, as Democrats love, a mind-reading "crime" where motives were assigned without cause. "You might have been thinking about robbing the house, you often loitered outside of it." Mopery has long since been dropped as a criminal charge, no judge will countenance such a "Crime".

To Abuse Power, there has to be an underlying crime.

Using Constitutionally or Statue granted powers, to fire Ambassadors, to review and withhold Foreign Aid pending a review, etc. can never be Abuse of Power nor Obstruction of Congress.

Obstruction of Congress is particularly toothless and retarded. Example: "You vetoed our budget! You're obstructing the House from carrying out it's fiscal duties!"

CBOEtrader says

He didn't. There is zero evidence of this.

Yep. In fact, in the closed door testimony that Schiff kept secret from the Media, the Executive, and Congress generally, the hostile witnesses admitted Ukraine corruption was a concern, stated that Corruption would not instantly disappear the moment Zelinsky was elected, and that this and other Presidents can and have delayed aid pending a corruption review, etc.

This thing is pretty much over. The Senate will not impeach. The only question is whether it gets instantly dismissed, or the Republicans have fun with Vindman, Hunter, etc.