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California could be coming for your kitchen stove next (plus your water heater, clothes dryer, etc.)
2019 Apr 8, 11:49am 6,437 views 27 comments
by zzyzzx follow (9)
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18
SunnyvaleCA
@
2019 Oct 12, 3:52pm
EBGuy says
I assume that is overall average CO2 release per kWh delivered to customers throughout the state. There's a major problem with using that figure in your calculation. Instead, you need to consider the last unit of electricity generated. PG&E always uses all of its "good" generation (solar, wind, nuclear) all the time that brings the CO2 average down; the extra needed electricity is generated by natural gas (or possibly even coal burned in other states). So, if government requirements induce extra electrical generation, then all of that extra generation is from natural gas.
Here's how my natural gas hot water works:
• burn natural gas at optimum rate to directly heat the water in the tank
Here's how an electric hot water heater works:
• burn natural gas at optimum rate to directly heat water to turn to steam (this is actually more efficient than my personal heater)
• use that steam to run a turbine and convert the high pressure into rotational energy (taking losses)
• use the rotation energy in the turbine to convert to electrical energy (taking more losses, of course)
• step up that electrical voltage to very high levels (more losses)
• transmit the high voltage many miles (more losses)
• step the electricity down to residential voltages (more losses)
• transmit the residential voltage the last mile to my home (more losses)
• use the electricity to heat water (basically 100% efficient at this stage— woo hoo!)
I'm sure everyone realizes exactly which process is going to use more natural gas for my hot shower.
That said, I absolutely love my induction cooktop. Very easy to clean, instant heating response, and unbelievably powerful. A cooktop uses such little energy in a home setting that the lack of efficiency is a roundoff error in my overall carbon footprint.
... For natural gas, one therm (100,000 Btus) releases 11.7 pounds CO2 and costs $1.31.
For electricity .294 pounds of CO2 are released per kWh (1 kWh = 3,413 Btus) therefore 8.614 lbs CO2 per therm for $6.38. ...
I assume that is overall average CO2 release per kWh delivered to customers throughout the state. There's a major problem with using that figure in your calculation. Instead, you need to consider the last unit of electricity generated. PG&E always uses all of its "good" generation (solar, wind, nuclear) all the time that brings the CO2 average down; the extra needed electricity is generated by natural gas (or possibly even coal burned in other states). So, if government requirements induce extra electrical generation, then all of that extra generation is from natural gas.
Here's how my natural gas hot water works:
• burn natural gas at optimum rate to directly heat the water in the tank
Here's how an electric hot water heater works:
• burn natural gas at optimum rate to directly heat water to turn to steam (this is actually more efficient than my personal heater)
• use that steam to run a turbine and convert the high pressure into rotational energy (taking losses)
• use the rotation energy in the turbine to convert to electrical energy (taking more losses, of course)
• step up that electrical voltage to very high levels (more losses)
• transmit the high voltage many miles (more losses)
• step the electricity down to residential voltages (more losses)
• transmit the residential voltage the last mile to my home (more losses)
• use the electricity to heat water (basically 100% efficient at this stage— woo hoo!)
I'm sure everyone realizes exactly which process is going to use more natural gas for my hot shower.
That said, I absolutely love my induction cooktop. Very easy to clean, instant heating response, and unbelievably powerful. A cooktop uses such little energy in a home setting that the lack of efficiency is a roundoff error in my overall carbon footprint.
24
RayAmerica
@
2023 Feb 28, 9:31am
RayAmerica
@
2023 Feb 28, 9:31am
Biden Admin Proposes To Block Half Of Current Gas Range Models
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-admin-proposes-block-half-current-gas-range-models
PS: It's all about control. The obtrusive Government wants to have the final say in every aspect of our lives, and they are doing this incrementally so that the vast majority of people aren't even aware.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-admin-proposes-block-half-current-gas-range-models
PS: It's all about control. The obtrusive Government wants to have the final say in every aspect of our lives, and they are doing this incrementally so that the vast majority of people aren't even aware.
26
Patrick
@
2023 Mar 30, 7:46pm
Patrick
@
2023 Mar 30, 7:46pm
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-republicans-gas-stove-ban
More than two dozen Democrats join GOP in opposing Biden gas stove ban
The House of Representatives passed the amendment to the GOP's big energy bill on Wednesday
27
RC2006
@
2023 Mar 30, 8:16pm
RC2006
@
2023 Mar 30, 8:16pm
With how much NG has gone up in CA I don't see how people can keep them. Two of my friends told me their gas bill is now around 500. I think their bill use to be around 60.
https://republicans.senate.ca.gov/content/what-they-told-us-californians-weigh-high-natural-gas-bills
https://republicans.senate.ca.gov/content/what-they-told-us-californians-weigh-high-natural-gas-bills
« First « Previous Comments 18 - 27 of 27 Search these comments
One of the things they are apparently thinking about doing now is getting rid of natural gas appliances in homes and businesses. The idea is to replace millions of gas stoves, gas dryers and gas heaters with replacements that run on electricity to help fight climate change.
you're talking about replacing several major appliances in millions of homes. For instance, I have a gas stove, a gas water heater, a gas home heater, and a gas dryer. Some of those are less than 2 years old. But, depending on how aggressive Democrats in Sacramento get with this plan, I might have to replace all of those. And the cost of the appliance is just part of it. Electric stoves and dryers need 220-volt power supplies to operate. I don't have 220 lines installed in my kitchen or garage. Who is going to pay to retrofit all of that? Probably me, but also possibly everyone in California:
I'm not convinced about the savings part of this equation. I can use all of my gas appliances routinely and the bill is still very cheap (around $20 a month except in the winter) because the cost of gas is so cheap. But electricity in California is sold in tiers. Those who only use a tiny amount for the month, pay very little. But most homes are going to use enough to push the rates into the upper tiers where the cost per kilowatt hour is significantly higher. The purpose of this is to induce people to save energy. But the practical result is going to be much higher bills if I'm suddenly using electricity to heat water, cook, heat the house, and dry clothes on top of everything else. It's hard to estimate what the increased price will be but I'm certain it's going to be a lot more than my current gas bill, probably several times more. So on top of the cost of replacing appliances and adding new electrical wiring to my home, there's going to be a higher monthly bill as well.