patrick.net

https://notthebee.com/article/farm-workers-were-excited-for-a-washington-law-that-would-hugely-expand-overtime-wages-now-they-want-it-repealed-because-their-hours-have-been-rolled-back

Farm workers were excited when Washington state expanded overtime wages. Now they want it repealed because they can't get hours.

Patrick says

Farm workers were excited when Washington state expanded overtime wages. Now they want it repealed because they can't get hours.

If you're paying a worker time-and-a-half on a full-time pay sheet, you are spending a lot of money. And if you're a farm owner, you have a lot of people to pay at that rate.

So owners are responding predictably. In this case, Schreiber had to bring in more workers to "spread the hours around." Think about that: It's cheaper for this guy to bring in a bunch more employees than it is to try to meet the state's new hourly wage mandates.

I am not a farmer, but farm work must be an exception to the norm of being cheaper for an employer to cover needed hours with overtime rather than hire new workers. But then, I am speaking of businesses with good benefits and typical overtime of 10 hours per week.. The math may be different if benefits are low and we are talking 30-40 hours per week overtime.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-fast-food-chains-add-131155180.html

US fast-food chains turn to automation to boost speed

From robotic grills to faster blenders with custom ice and milk dispensers, major US restaurant chains including Starbucks, Domino's, and Chipotle are touting new technologies to automate production, cut labor costs and potentially boost profit margins.

Starbucks said it plans to roll out a coffee-making machine, the Siren System, in around 10% of its stores starting next year. Starbucks claims that baristas using the machine will be able to produce a drinks with less time and fewer steps, making a grande mocha frappucinno in 36 seconds rather than 87 seconds.

Chipotle introduced a robotic prototype in July that cuts and peels avocados to reduce prep time by 50% and help employees prepare orders faster. The Colorado-based chain also rolled out a dual-sided grill, which cooks 70% faster than the average employee, to 10 high-volume locations, Chipotle CEO Brian Niccol said during an earnings call last week.

Domino's has launched several automation projects over the past years. In 2021, Domino's released a pizza delivery robot car in selective stores at its Houston locations. Last year, Domino's Pizza Enterprises announced an automated pizza prep device in partnership with Picnic Works, a Seattle-based food-automation startup.

Domino’s also added an automated supply chain center in Indiana with machines that make batches of dough. The center, opened in March, will service Domino’s shops throughout Indiana, Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin.

Study the history of the Magna Carta which is the precusor to the US Constitution.

It happened after the plague killed off the serfs who did the actual work for the landowners.

ONLY with a shortage of workers will workers be able to exercise any leverage over their slave masters.

If you support foreign workers in the USA, you are slowly fucking yourself and the rest of us over economically.

clambo says

ONLY with a shortage of workers will workers be able to exercise any leverage over their slave masters.

And the same thing sours Capital to expand automation. Like in Japan over the past 25 years and now robotic tomato harvesting (which was commercializable tech 30 years ago) in the US recently.

The minimum wage is so far behind it's not a thing anymore.

The going rate just to show up in Central Florida, long known for it's well below average wages, is $13/hr. That's for a High Schooler flipping burgers with no supervisory/keyholding role. Landscaper employees are making $18/hr.

I stopped and got my kid a Burger King ice cream this weekend after our hike. The supervisor told me he'd take us, but we were the last customer as he was closing - nobody came to the 3PM shift. I asked him doesn't he need at least 3 people, including himself, to keep it open? He said they just do two now, usually him running the registers and somebody else making the food. I never heard of a chain fast food restaurant on the dinner shift running with just two employees, including the manager/supervisor as one of them.

https://babylonbee.com/cleanArticle/california-proposes-another-minimum-wage-increase-so-people-can-afford-products-made-more-expensive-by-previous-minimum-wage-increase

Patrick says

And this guy thinks he can run for POTUS?

Patrick says

I don't see any way out of this topic. We have wages, welfare and product costs. They have to even out. Robots will only make it worse. Enough people unemployed because of automation and you have a larger and larger number of welfare recipients. It's a merry go round. Everyone must eat. We'll just print $$ to infinity.

Maybe America will just become one huge open drug den on every corner of every city.

Booger says

Nothing like giving your order directly to the 'Pedo Panda'.

Meanwhile, politicians who root for these wage requirements routine offer "unplaid internships."

For example:
https://splinternews.com/interesting-nancy-pelosi-deletes-listing-for-an-unpaid-1832392376

Booger says

I fucking hate the whole "speak to a robot" thing.

https://reason.com/2023/12/27/californias-new-minimum-wage-is-predictably-killing-food-delivery-jobs/

UkraineIsFucked says

https://reason.com/2023/12/27/californias-new-minimum-wage-is-predictably-killing-food-delivery-jobs/

There should be no minimum wage. If you're a company and need labor, you pay what you need to make your profit. When you're told what to pay someone arbitrarily, you'll lose money. So why start or run a business?

All minimum wage does is protect big business and hurt small business. It's really not a discussion. Not a fan of Peter Schiff but he was on Rogan I believe and makes really compelling statements about minimum wage. Also about living in Puerto Rico.

Some people would rather give billions to powerful management than hike to lowest of employees.
Libertarian man-eats-man world to achieve survival of fittest is cannibalistic and achieve lower economic outcome as it quickly becomes lawless.

Currently US workers make lowest share of income but some people still blame them for unemployment.
Wake up and get into reality.

@patrick , You are sane centrist.. What do you think? .. Is higher wages of labor a cause of concern in our country or management making it like bandits?

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Look at hamburger prices outside Los Angeles on the way to Las Vegas. Wait until the new minimum wage law sets in.

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WookieMan says

There should be no minimum wage. If you're a company and need labor, you pay what you need to make your profit. When you're told what to pay someone arbitrarily, you'll lose money. So why start or run a business?

Yup. Know what the minimum wage is in social welfare countries like Sweden and Denmark?

0

As in, no minimum wage.

FarmersWon says

Some people would rather give billions to powerful management than hike to lowest of employees.
Libertarian man-eats-man world to achieve survival of fittest is cannibalistic and achieve lower economic outcome as it quickly becomes lawless.

Currently US workers make lowest share of income but some people still blame them for unemployment.
Wake up and get into reality.

patrick , You are sane centrist.. What do you think? .. Is higher wages of labor a cause of concern in our country or management making it like bandits?

Given how Sikhs don't know economics, it is more apparent to me why the street shitters rule over them.

Idiots for increased minimum wages are delusional. They erroneously think the rich pay the wages. Here’s a clue... the wages are paid by the consumer. And rich people don’t frequent businesses staffed by minimum wage employees. So raising the minimum wage raises prices for average consumers while the high end consumer is unaffected.

Furthermore, the average small business can not afford to increase prices to pay higher wages so they are likely to go out of business or drastically cut back services. Many pizza places have already decided to lay off their delivery staff due the minimum wage hikes. Hope you enjoy destroying jobs Democrats.

Austria and Italy don't have minimum wages either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage

PeopleUnited says

Furthermore, the average small business can not afford to increase prices to pay higher wages so they are likely to go out of business or drastically cut back services. Many pizza places have already decided to lay off their delivery staff due the minimum wage hikes. Hope you enjoy destroying jobs Democrats.

Boston Market closed down most of its outlets.

PeopleUnited says

the average small business can not afford to increase prices to pay higher wages so they are likely to go out of business or drastically cut back services

yep, like charge +$8.50 for a $6 burger in Barstow, California

and it likely cost $10 for that $6 burger next year when the new minimum wage law is effective

this is what I was stating before as far as quality of life and standard of living ...

we as a country are going to have to increase productivity to realize an increase in value such as produce a lot more relative to any increase in price ...

if not, then we'll be further reduce our quality of life and further approach 3rd world conditions

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UkraineIsFucked says

Given how Sikhs don't know economics, it is more apparent to me why the street shitters rule over them.

I give it to you that "street shitters" do rule over Sikhs. It is more due to mistakes Sikhs made in 1947 and their small numbers. They fought with Britishers and made maximum sacrifices for Hindus who proven to be backstabber. So yes we were fools. British were much better to Sikhs than Hindus.

Sikhs do know economics and 90% of them are business owners... But Sikhs also have humanity and they feed millions of people for free every single day.
Money is not end goal of life, It is a means to improve lives of your fellow citizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT-N5wl0l-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5QPh6rGdZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6uIXgqrxUA

Nah, they're just gonna cut service hours like they've been doing for years before any minimum wage adjustment. Whether or not the minimum wage changes.

I just used the bullshit CPI calculator using 80/20 uncooked ground beef prices. According to bullshit CPI, $1.09 of 1994 80/20 uncooked ground beef should be a little only $2.23 in 2023. LOL! SNORT!

Anybody seen ground beef 80/20 in any supermarket for $2.23 recently?
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

The absolute cheapest ground beef I saw all year was at a Winn Dixie, and it was 75-25, after labor day, they must have been stuck with unsold beef. It was still $5/lb. Nowhere near $2.23 according to CPI.

We can do this with gas, eggs, chips, you name it and see the hilarious results out of whack with reality. "But hurr durr muh PC is done be cheaper and so much faster har de har hedonics dildonics hyuk hyuk I read da Economist", yeah, for the same reason VCRs got cheaper and better from 1981-1991... mass production. It's the everyday shit essential that tells the tale.

Running it reverse using standard prices for staples today... it was over $2.00/lb in 1994. No the fuck it wasn't, and that's when I lived in Northern NJ. It wasn't that much if brought at Gristede's in Manhattan, andthat was pretty much one of the top 5 most expensive cost of living area in the Country.

AmericanKulak says

Anybody seen ground beef 80/20 in any supermarket for $2.23 recently?

I'm guilty of it. I don't look at prices in a grocery store generally. So I wouldn't know. They're noticeably down here in IL over the last few weeks though. Admittedly I don't know or generally care what the price is. I just buy it.

Most our meat we freeze and just get 1/2 a cow or pig, processed with different cuts from locals. If we get meat at a grocery store 90% of the time it's expiration day sale meat and we freeze it. We rarely pay full price. Or BOGO's with things like ribs.

FarmersWon says

Is higher wages of labor a cause of concern in our country or management making it like bandits?

Both.

Higher minimum wages cause inflation and kills jobs, because the employer can no longer make a profit at that wage level.

Management in the US is usually overpaid relative to workers. CEO wages a multiple of average worker wages has been going up consistently.

The solution is to eliminate competition from illegal labor in America and to prevent exporting of US jobs.

This hike in minimum wage is necessary to compensate low wage earners for the inflation caused by the previous hike in minimum wage. </sarc>

You're either going to pay the lowest wage earners more or it's going to cost the taxpayers more in social safety net costs.

GNL says

You're either going to pay the lowest wag earners more or it's going to cost the taxpayers more in social safety net costs.

Lowering welfare needs to be an option as well.

If they pay more, then they should expect at least a little more from the worker as far as productivity and increase in value.

Granted the increase in pay is for inflation but there should be some return to the employer as far as the employee being more effective.

So instead of needing a 5 person crew, they can reduce to a 4 person crew in order to realize savings, or there is a noticeable increase in unit output relative to the increase in unit cost.

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Booger says

GNL says

You're either going to pay the lowest wag earners more or it's going to cost the taxpayers more in social safety net costs.

Lowering welfare needs to be an option as well.

More homeless and closer to a 3rd world shithole? Sounds great.

ad says

So instead of needing a 5 person crew, they can reduce to a 4 person crew in order to realize savings, or there is a noticeable increase in unit output relative to the increase in unit cost.

How come it doesn't work this way for products at the grocery store? My beef keeps going up regardless of the minimum wage. This is a circle and everyone must eat. Why can't people see that? You're going to pay one way or another. It's jobs and wealth/income inequality that's the problem.

GNL says

More homeless and closer to a 3rd world shithole? Sounds great.

Need to incentivize and reward work and productivity gains.

Offer tax breaks or credits for housing for the worker class as one way to improve their standard of living and increase disposable income.

As far as your other comment about wealth/income inequality, there could be more emphasis on profit-sharing incentives such as offering shares of a company to its workers ranging from McDonalds to Walmart.
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ad says

GNL says

More homeless and closer to a 3rd world shithole? Sounds great.

Need to incentivize and reward work and productivity gains.

Offer tax breaks or credits for housing for the worker class as one way to improve their standard of living and increase disposable income.

As far as your other comment about wealth/income inequality, there could be more emphasis on profit-sharing incentives such as offering shares of a company to its workers ranging from McDonalds to Walmart.
.

I dare say the tax code is a huge contributor to the problem also. You get more of what you incentivize.

GNL says

I dare say the tax code is a huge contributor to the problem also. You get more of what you incentivize.

The long term capital tax rates is at a maximum of 20%. You would want this to be higher for the rich ? And how much is rich ? At least $450,000 a year in income for a California couple ?

Trump and Bush Jr cut taxes. You want to go back to Clinton tax rates including the business tax rate ?

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@ad, what is a good society to you?

I want everyone to have a living wage job and ZERO welfare except for the indigent.