patrick.net

Patrick says

True - unless they can prevent Trump's almost-certain re-election. Maybe they are desperate enough to try this. I know it seems unlikely, but you should be paranoid in proportion to the amount of money involved.

Their competence and intellectual abilities are quite low, which is the reason why I do not believe conspiracies in this case. Only thing they can do is slander Trump on TV with foaming mouth. They got trump elected against all odds, for Christs' sake...

Air pollution in China has dropped dramatically.



from https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51691967

https://spectator.us/donald-trump-vs-corona-hysteria/

No sooner had news of the virus emerged than the left tried to weaponize it against Donald Trump. But his response to this apparent medical emergency has been magnificent. At first, the media condemned him for taking swift action to stop flights from places, like China, where the infection was rife and growing. ‘Can you believe it? Trump restricted flights from China. What a racist!’ ...

Anyone wanting to see what patient leadership in action looks like should watch the president’s press conference Wednesday on coronavirus. He did what a leader should do. He reassured people. He presented the facts, so far as we know them. He outlined the many actions his administration was taking to mitigate danger and the various contingency plans should the disease worsen or spread more than we currently expect.

The president called on medical experts to explain various aspects of the situation. He was calm but serious, cautious but optimistic. The danger to the US at present, he pointed out several times, is very low. Currently, he said, there are 15 confirmed cases here. Fifteen. Most patients are recovering; one is in a serious condition. He also highlighted that every year, the flu claims anywhere from 25,000 to 60-odd thousand lives.

I said that Trump exhibited ‘patient leadership.’ The element of patience was paramount. Not for the first time, I was reminded that the White House press corps resembles a flock of bad-tempered schoolchildren, lazy and slightly dim, but from fancy families so firm in their sense of entitlement and outrage.

All the adults in the room were on or next to the podium. The press gaggle, desperate to find something to blame the president for, kept repeating the same questions, fighting to frame ‘gotcha’ remarks, and appearing exactly like they are: snotty, ill-prepared hacks whose goal is not to report and inform, but play smarmy partisan games. The president, just back from a trip to India, looked tired but commanding. The press looked small, sweaty, petulant.

I'm sure the think tanks have all figured out the Monte Carlo stats on the deployments of bioweapons. However, such deployments would have the character of crude, rusty cleavers rather than fine ceramic knives.

The blowtorch of captive media attention reeks of propaganda event. It seems little early in the election cycle to precipitate a recession/depression to use against Trump, but I would have anticipated such a manipulation some time this year.

How do you engineer a recession without blowing up the world economy with depression? These media driven downturns are great buying opportunities for the elites and gamblers with ready cash to buy devaluated assets. Maybe they think they can plunder, and then navigate the ship of state adroitly out of danger? Of course, there are the benefits of imposing martial law without protest, and keeping people from assemblage. Who knows what calculus is being applied.

Patrick says

the White House press corps resembles a flock of bad-tempered schoolchildren, lazy and slightly dim, but from fancy families so firm in their sense of entitlement and outrage.

BTW, this fits perfectly with the description of the "clerisy" here:

https://patrick.net/post/1330528/2020-03-01-the-two-middle-classes

They constitute “the privileged stratum,” in the words of French left-wing analyst Christophe Guilluy, operating from an assumption of “moral superiority” that justifies their right to instruct others. This power is greatly enhanced by their control of culture, most media, the education systems—eight in 10 British professors are on the Left—and throughout the bureaucracy.

https://www.wfla.com/news/by-the-numbers/nearly-40-of-beer-drinking-americans-wont-buy-corona-due-to-coronavirus-study-shows/

Nearly 40% of beer-drinking Americans won’t buy Corona due to coronavirus, study shows

Flavius says

Booger says

Nearly 40% of beer-drinking Americans won’t buy Corona due to coronavirus, study shows

Just goes to show education wasn't wasted on Americans

Beer education. Corona is shit as a beer or virus....

Although they do have fantastic lobbyist. While most still call it Corona virus, at least they got much of the media to call it Covid-19 or whatever it's now being called.

https://www.newsweek.com/new-zealand-corona-coronavirus-hamilton-facebook-1484642

OUTRAGE AT BAR OFFERING CORONA BEER DEALS DURING CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK CAUSED BY 'SNOWFLAKES,' SAYS OWNER

The advertisement on its Facebook page shows two men in medical suits and masks holding up bottles of the renowned Mexican beer, with the slogan, "Catch some Corona at House this summer, just [6.50 New Zealand dollars ($4.20)] every day while the pandemic lasts."

Corona beer has been shown to be best for curing Coronavirus, along with all the other health and mental benefits of alcohol.

Costco in SD was a mad house today. Virtually anything (besides food, alcohol and vodka, but I repeat myself) that you'd want in a pandemic was gone. Asians with masks. Just like TV. Lots of loud, "Do you have X?", being asked to employees. "We're sold out", "We'll have more at 10:00AM tomorrow" responses.

Employees standing around dumbfounded. Several meat department employees standing around discussing the cornavirus while I picked through the USDA prime and eavesdropped for a while. One mentioned how bad the store his brother worked at in Wisconsin was.

Definitely slim pickings for staples. Only 2 dozen large bags of brown rice left and some prepackaged sticky rice. Lots of eggs and things that will expire quicker though.

At the checkout I asked the guy if he's seen it this busy before. "Not in the 7 years I've worked here. Nothing even close." As I left I heard the next guy ask the same question.

Local Staters Bros grocery wasn't so crowded but was more than usual. Same thing though. No 70% EtOH although there were 2 bottles of H2O2 and a pack of ethanol wipes which turned out to be dried out.

No Asians with masks but a couple with cart-fulls of water. I don't know why anyone would stock up on water.

I buy in bulk so already had the stuff most people were looking for though. Just grabbed some extra food.

It's when they start stocking up on yams and sniff your face that you have to start worrying.

Here in South America, the lead editorial in the biggest paper was "We all need to have our end of summer parrilla parties before the flu hits and annoys us."

just_dregalicious says

couple with cart-fulls of water. I don't know why anyone would stock up on water.

Because people are fucking stupid.

Booger says

https://www.newsweek.com/new-zealand-corona-coronavirus-hamilton-facebook-1484642

OUTRAGE AT BAR OFFERING CORONA BEER DEALS DURING CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK CAUSED BY 'SNOWFLAKES,' SAYS OWNER

I could not find this FaceBook page, presumably because it was taken down.

zzyzzx says

just_dregalicious says

couple with cart-fulls of water. I don't know why anyone would stock up on water.

Because people are fucking stupid.

Playing devils advocate here. Maybe if quarantines were to get strict enough, the people that maintain municipal water systems can't get to the facilities to keep them running? In that case water would be pretty essential in an urban environment where under the strictest of quarantines you probably couldn't leave the house without being arrested.

If it were to ever get that extreme (it won't) then guns are your best bet anyway.

just_dregalicious says

Costco in SD was a mad house today. Virtually anything (besides food, alcohol and vodka, but I repeat myself) that you'd want in a pandemic was gone. Asians with masks. Just like TV. Lots of loud, "Do you have X?", being asked to employees. "We're sold out", "We'll have more at 10:00AM tomorrow" responses.

Employees standing around dumbfounded. Several meat department employees standing around discussing the cornavirus while I picked through the USDA prime and eavesdropped for a while. One mentioned how bad the store his brother worked at in Wisconsin was.

Definitely slim pickings for staples. Only 2 dozen large bags of brown rice left and some prepackaged sticky rice. Lots of eggs and things that will expire quicker though.

At the checkout I asked the guy if he's seen it this busy before. "Not in the 7 years I've worked here. Nothing even close." As I left I heard the next guy ask the same question.

Local Staters Bros grocery wasn't so crowded bu...

Proof it's great for the economy. Stocks should go up as people buy everything!

WookieMan says

Playing devils advocate here. Maybe if quarantines were to get strict enough, the people that maintain municipal water systems can't get to the facilities to keep them running? In that case water would be pretty essential in an urban environment where under the strictest of quarantines you probably couldn't leave the house without being arrested.

(Me, looking at 18000 gallons of water in the backyard) M'kay. Now, can someone re-enlighten me on the joys of density, living in a highrise apartment building and commuting on a crowded subway....

Not surprised Costco stock up huge.

The_Weeping_Ayatollah says

(Me, looking at 18000 gallons of water in the backyard)

I've got 26k, slightly frozen right now ;) Assuming it continues to rain, my personal reservoir will supply me a lifetime of water in an emergency. And fuck cities. Did it once, won't do it ever again.

Flavius says

Anyone wants to risk a bet on the eventual number of sick people? Dead people?

In the states or worldwide? That's a hard bet to make. Has this virus really hit the shit holes in Africa with poor healthcare? I love this site though. They list a fucking cruise ship like it's a country... lol: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Not going to make a bet, but I actually think with the awareness it's going to get contained or at minimum treated very seriously here in the states. You'll likely have to be in poor health anyway to succumb to this virus. Reality is, most people dying from this thing would have probably already been dead without modern medicine and treatment before getting the virus. But let's keep the hype up.

Hircus says

CBOEtrader says

I doubt the US will see 340 deaths from corona virus.

The only way that holds is if the virus doesn't spread in the US. That unfortunately is a long shot given the apparent level of transmissibility, the fact that people can be asymptomatic, yet contagious and the stupendously incompetent lack of testing happening in the US. Note two people have already died in the US out of less than 100 confirmed cases.

mell says

just_dregalicious says

Costco in SD was a mad house today. Virtually anything (besides food, alcohol and vodka, but I repeat myself) that you'd want in a pandemic was gone. Asians with masks. Just like TV. Lots of loud, "Do you have X?", being asked to employees. "We're sold out", "We'll have more at 10:00AM tomorrow" responses.

That seems a bit premature, but not surprising. When PG&E shut the power off in the North Bay for three days the vibe just prior to the power coming on was like precursor to Mad Max. The whole enchilada, so to speak, is very fragile.

rdm says

Note two people have already died in the US out of less than 100 confirmed cases.

Sample size of 100? And we're going to extrapolate anything from that? It's highly probable that 2 people out of 100 died from influenza this week in the US. This hype is becoming a joke.

You've got China with 1B+ people. B, Billion. There are about 80k people infected. 2,500ish have died in China. 0.0000025% of the entire population. I'd venture to guess 90% of these people were within a year of passing from some other ailment. The Chinese also had to build out more hospital beds, so ill people likely weren't getting solid treatment from date of infection and symptoms.

Many people are putting too much into the data coming out of China. Statistically this is just a new strain of flu and everyone is freaking the fuck out. Hell, it's not even killing little kids. It will likely come out that your average influenza strain is more likely to kill you at the end of this.

WookieMan says

Sample size of 100?

agreed but the post was in response to a poster positing the death toll to be less than 340 in the US

. WookieMan says

It will likely come out that your average influenza strain is more likely to kill you at the end of this.

And that would likely kill more than 340 people. My point is no one knows but given the factors we know so far a death toll in the USA of <340 is highly unlikely.

Many companies are already talking about working from home for the time being. If people avoid large crowds and stay at home mostly this should get under control quickly. I like it, maybe people will reflect on their often empty lives and connect with their family and friends again, maybe even start cooking hime made meals - what a novel concept! - rather than mindlessly partying and drinking, ubering everywhere and using services for everything. A return to the do it yourself culture would be cool with me.

Coronaviruses are believed to cause 15 to 30% of all common colds in adults and children.[14] Coronaviruses cause colds with major symptoms, such as fever and sore throat from swollen adenoids, primarily in the winter and early spring seasons.[27] Coronaviruses can cause pneumonia – either direct viral pneumonia or a secondary bacterial pneumonia – and may cause bronchitis – either direct viral bronchitis or a secondary bacterial bronchitis.[28] The much publicized human coronavirus discovered in 2003, SARS-CoV, which causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), has a unique pathogenesis because it causes both upper and lower respiratory tract infections.[28] There are no vaccines or antiviral drugs to prevent or treat human coronavirus infections.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus#Human_coronaviruses

In other words, a nasty Cold. No healthy non-Elderly person should die from it.

rdm says

agreed but the post was in response to a poster positing the death toll to be less than 340 in the US

Understood. I just don't know how you track this thing if it's mainly killing old people with other underlying or known ailments. Did Corona push them over the edge immune system wise, probably. But was it 100% the cause of death in all these cases? My guess is it's not the preliminary cause regardless if they had the virus or not. I still believe this to be 98% hype and a tiny chance this could be a real problem.

WookieMan says

rdm says

agreed but the post was in response to a poster positing the death toll to be less than 340 in the US

Understood. I just don't know how you track this thing if it's mainly killing old people with other underlying or known ailments. Did Corona push them over the edge immune system wise, probably. But was it 100% the cause of death in all these cases? My guess is it's not the preliminary cause regardless if they had the virus or not. I still believe this to be 98% hype and a tiny chance this could be a real problem.

To be fair this is the same standard by which flu deaths are counted. If you die of pneumonia, even if bacterial 2ndary, or some other organ failure related to the stress of the illness, you officially died from the flu if you tested positive. So yeah there will be more cases but highly unlikely they come anywhere near the number of flu deaths..

WookieMan says

Did Corona push them over the edge immune system wise, probably. But was it 100% the cause of death in all these cases?

True, it will not in, the vast majority of cases, be death due to Covid-19 virus alone but due to causes related to Covid-19 virus infection. This is the same with flu and many other diseases, there are differing levels of fatality depending on individual factors. In a vacuum, of a perfect body, which does not exist, this virus probably has a very very low fatality rate probably close to zero. But everyone's body is in various stages of deterioration and disfunction, based on many factors and something like this can push one over the edge. Without the infection would they live for 10 more days or 10 more years, that is unknowable. But bottom line is, dead is dead.

New England Journal of Medicine: Coronavirus Could Be No Worse than Flu

An editorial published Friday in the New England Journal of Medicine speculated that the coronavirus currently causing panic in world markets could turn out no worse than “a severe seasonal influenza” in terms of mortality.

Citing an analysis of the available data from the outbreak in China, the authors note that there have been zero cases among children younger than 15; and that the fatality rate is 2% at most, and could be “considerably less than 1%.”

Those who have died have been elderly or were already suffering from another illness — as with ordinary flu. The underlying data suggest that the symptoms varies, and fewer than one in six of the cases reported were “severe.”

The authors note that coronavirus looks to be much less severe than other recent outbreaks of respiratory illnesses.

It's def serious having to deal with two seasonal influenzas at the same time, and the R0 is supposedly higher for the CV. However the main reason for the higher R0 could very well be that it is asymptomatic/mild for many, so they spread it easily, whereas the flu usually leaves most either bed-ridden or at least housebound for days up to a couple weeks, so there's more self-isolation going on with the flu. I don't see any reason why the CV should be more contagious than the flu virus, they both spread in very similar ways.

China’s extreme response to Covid 19 indicates that this virus is much more dangerous than any cold or flu. Otherwise why would they have reacted like that? That’s what concerns me the most.

PaisleyPattern says

China’s extreme response to Covid 19 indicates that this virus is much more dangerous than any cold or flu. Otherwise why would they have reacted like that? That’s what concerns me the most.

In the concentrated regions millions of people live so close to each other that they need to use drastic measures, also their sanitation is far inferior. It makes sense. It also overloads their inferior medical facilities and will take resources away for people who may need life saving procedures or care for many other reasons. It's severe enough like a well-spreading severe flu.

But they have never responded in this manner to any other flu type virus. It seems very likely they are hiding something about its severity. I don’t want that to be true. But I’m trying to be as realistic as possible. Hundreds of millions of people quarantined, and the resultant immense damage to their economy and society. I can’t imagine this would have been done if there wasn’t a very very serious reason.

PaisleyPattern says

But they have never responded in this manner to each other flu type virus. It seems very likely they are hiding something about its severity. I don’t want that to be true. But I’m trying to be as realistic as possible. Hundreds of millions of people quarantined, and the resultant immense damage to their economy and society. I can’t imagine this would have been done if there wasn’t a very very serious reason.

No, if they didn't quarantine hard economic output would have been down for many quarters. Instead if they get it under control quickly only Q1 may be impacted. It's economic survival for China as companies may decide to move their supply chain out of China. Again, makes sense. No need for conspiracy theories.

My point is that this response is immensely more extreme than any other response China has had to a respiratory virus , a cold or flu , or even any other disease. There is obviously something different going on otherwise there wouldn’t be a different response.

PaisleyPattern says

But they have never responded in this manner to any other flu type virus. It seems very likely they are hiding something about its severity.

I'd actually agree they're trying to hide something, but I don't think it has anything to do with the disease. Between the Hong Kong protests, the US trying to get fair trade, etc. I'm guessing the people aren't all that happy in China. This might be an "emergency" by design type thing to distract as silly as it sounds. We have zero idea how well the government has brainwashed the average Chinese person over there. I also don't put much stock in how the Chinese react with regards to something that may have been their own fuck up.

At the end of the day, this really isn't that dangerous to 99% of people. Especially in less densely populated places like the US.