patrick.net

https://abc7.com/health/la-doctor-seeing-success-with-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19/6079864/

Yep. And here despicable leftoid lamestream media, the failing NYT: Orange man bad! pushing dangerous unproven drugs! Waah!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/coronavirus-live-news-updates.html

:
http://theconversation.com/a-small-trial-finds-that-hydroxychloroquine-is-not-effective-for-treating-coronavirus-135484

This talks about much more than that one small study. But who knows, maybe he's a paid shill by big pharma. Or maybe not.

This really is a battle to the death, the Commie Democrats wants millions of deaths. Hang these mother fuckers until they shit their pants when it is proved that Trump Pills work and more importantly They Fucking Know it Does!

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/06/democrat-tavia-galonski-trump-chloroquine-crimes-against-humanity/

https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2020/04/06/l-afrique-potentiel-prochain-foyer-du-coronavirus-mise-sur-la-chloroquine_6035668_3212.html

Patients treated with hydroxychloroquine "heal faster," said Professor Moussa Seydi, head of the infectious disease department at Fann Hospital in Dakar, during a public address Thursday, April 2. “This finding reassures me and my teams. In the coming days, we are going to combine it with azithromycin, an antibiotic that would allow us to have better results, "he continued.

Patrick says

https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2020/04/06/l-afrique-potentiel-prochain-foyer-du-coronavirus-mise-sur-la-chloroquine_6035668_3212.html

Patients treated with hydroxychloroquine "heal faster," said Professor Moussa Seydi, head of the infectious disease department at Fann Hospital in Dakar, during a public address Thursday, April 2. “This finding reassures me and my teams. In the coming days, we are going to combine it with azithromycin, an antibiotic that would allow us to have better results, "he continued.

Wait until the first person is diagnosed as dying from the drug though because of a 1 in a million side effect and underlying condition. It's coming. Get the popcorn ready.

More "anecdotal" evidence.

*LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19*
Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."
https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/

thomasdong1776 says

Fauci: no evidence anti-malaria drug pushed by Trump works against novel coronavirus

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/coronavirus-fauci-trump-anti-malaria-drug

Let's see what Fauci says:

“In terms of science, I don’t think we can definitively say it works,” he told CBS’s Face the Nation.

“The data are really just at best suggestive. There have been cases that show there may be an effect and there are others to show there’s no effect.”

That does not qualify as Fauci saying that there is no evidence. He says "I don't think we can definitely say it works" which is different from headline and narrative of article, which, once more, shows that media are idiotic hacks.

Also, FDA says differently: https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download

Based on the totality of scientific evidence available to FDA, it is reasonable to believe that chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate may be effective in treating COVID-19, and that, when used under the conditions described in this authorization, the known and potential benefits of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate when used to treat COVID-19 outweigh the known and potential risks of such products.

rd6B says

Based on the totality of scientific evidence available to FDA, it is reasonable to believe that chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate may be effective in treating COVID-19, and that, when used under the conditions described in this authorization, the known and potential benefits of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate when used to treat COVID-19 outweigh the known and potential risks of such products.

All this says is that the FDA is now a politicized agency, really it always has been. Because " the totality of [real]scientific evidence available to FDA" is almost zero. Yes, there is the suggestion that it may have some effect, maybe a great effect and maybe no effect and it could simply be the placebo effect which can be significant. And Fauci is walking on eggshells, guarantee if Trump wasn't so gung ho on this he would be much harsher in his characterization of the purported treatment. Now I hear Trump is talking to Dr. Ozz and his trade rep Navaro and Rudi Giuliani as experts on the subject, hmmm doesn't that give one pause? Fortunately there are some real studies going on now, saw a guy from the University of Minnesota was working on two true double blind studies. Preliminary results may be fairly soon. I really hope it is effective as its cheap and available with side effects that are significant but usually tolerable, but will wait for the scientists to make that determination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/

BMJ. 2003 Dec 20; 327(7429): 1459–1461.
doi: 10.1136/bmj.327.7429.1459

Objectives To determine whether parachutes are effective in preventing major trauma related to gravitational challenge.

Design Systematic review of randomised controlled trials.

Data sources: Medline, Web of Science, Embase, and the Cochrane Library databases; appropriate internet sites and citation lists.

Study selection: Studies showing the effects of using a parachute during free fall.

Main outcome measure Death or major trauma, defined as an injury severity score > 15.

Results We were unable to identify any randomised controlled trials of parachute intervention.

Conclusions As with many interventions intended to prevent ill health, the effectiveness of parachutes has not been subjected to rigorous evaluation by using randomised controlled trials. Advocates of evidence based medicine have criticised the adoption of interventions evaluated by using only observational data. We think that everyone might benefit if the most radical protagonists of evidence based medicine organised and participated in a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled, crossover trial of the parachute.

*Detroit Democrat rep says hydroxychloroquine, Trump helped save her life amid COVID-19 fight*

LANSING — A Democratic state representative from Detroit is crediting hydroxychloroquine — and Republican President Donald Trump who touted the drug — for saving her in her battle with the coronavirus.

State Rep. Karen Whitsett, who learned Monday she has tested positive for COVID-19, said she started taking hydroxychloroquine on March 31, prescribed by her doctor, after both she and her husband sought treatment for a range of symptoms on March 18.

"It was less than two hours" before she started to feel relief, said Whitsett, who had experienced shortness of breath, swollen lymph nodes, and what felt like a sinus infection. She is still experiencing headaches, she said.

Whitsett said she was familiar with "the wonders" of hydroxychloroquine from an earlier bout with Lyme disease, but does not believe she would have thought to ask for it, or her doctor would have prescribed it, had Trump not been touting it as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/04/06/democrat-karen-whitsett-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-trump/2955430001/

The last part of the story if interesting too. If State Rep. Whitsett makes a full recovery, she'll likely have a lot of visibility as she is able to move about freely.
She said too many people in Detroit are still not taking the virus seriously, and that needs to change.
"I see it in my own community — not being quarantined and still having house parties," she said.
Asked what she thinks of Trump's handling of the pandemic more generally, Whitsett said she credits Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan's relationship with Trump for helping to get the city what it needs to fight the virus.

rd6B says

Also, FDA says differently: https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download

Two things, one, thats 9 days ago, and yes they approved it for use.

The other is that stories have come out since questioning it's efficacy. They are small tests, and several tests before questioned it. The ones that were hopeful, like the one by the french hippy were just silly. A high percentage were not even symptomatic.

socal2 says

"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

Right, but we know that 98% get better anyway.

Maybe with zinc alone it's 99.5% that get better, and 95% if you're over 80%. We just don't know.

I know, in these times, given the greed of big pharma it's easy to wish that neither science or statistics were a thing (talkng to tpb) .

rdm says

. I really hope it is effective as its cheap and available with side effects that are significant but usually tolerable, but will wait for the scientists to make that determination.

Bullshit! If you had the Rona and couldn’t fucking breathe, you’d suddenly develop an appreciation for fast tracking medical use of a prescription drug that’s been in use for 70 fucking years!
STFU about double blind methodology when it absolutely MANDATES that we kill a few hundred people whom we could have saved.

Shaman says

Bullshit! If you had the Rona and couldn’t fucking breathe, you’d suddenly develop an appreciation for fast tracking medical use of a prescription drug that’s been in use for 70 fucking years!

Just because you are hysterical dont project that on me. If I get to the point of needing a ventilator my directive says no. But of course being hysterical you probably haven't studied what can happen when you get put on a ventilator. It is really something to avoid. And there are worse things than dying. As to the drug don't know whether I would take it or not. Like I said I hope it works. But by dissing double blind studies you only show your ignorance.

As scientists search for effective meds many things need to be tested, why put all your eggs in this basket? Antivirals are difficult to develop, did we get lucky and have a drug that works on this particular novel virus? Of course it's possible but most reputable scientists say it would be a huge stroke of luck, the odds are very much against it.

It's interesting how people (leftoids) insist on year long double blinded trials to prove a drug in use for almost a century which most likely does help with Covid-19, but then trumpet out lout projections of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people dying based on mathematically/statistically completely unsound assumptions where they have the luxury and the time to look for factual data instead. When projecting that millions die confidence intervals and hazard ratios suddenly don't matter, only when someone is on the fritz and makes a conscious choice then it's cool to deny them their wish based on not-carried out double-blinded studies.

marcus says

Two things, one, thats 9 days ago, and yes they approved it for use.

Desperate times require desperate measures. If they would not have at least some indications that it works, they would not have approved. How efficient this thing is, is a whole another question.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2

Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: results of a randomized clinical trial

Aims: Studies have indicated that chloroquine (CQ) shows antagonism against COVID-19 in vitro. However, evidence regarding its effects in patients is limited. This study aims to evaluate the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in the treatment of patients with COVID-19. ... Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia.

Fake News because Orangemanbad no matter what he does, @Patrick
I note that more TDS individuals above tried to argue against clinical evidence by desperate doctors who used the drug only because anything orange man says is uncritically assumed to be wrong

"Let's give out Free Needles, allow the homeless to shit and poop in the street, and decriminalize thefts under $900. Also, Hydrochloroquinine is untested and should not be recommended for a year until double blind tests have been carried out according to normal FDA procedure on this ancient, generic drug that is manufactured and used all over the planet for the better part of a century."

FUNNY HOW they disparage 'anecdotal evidence'...was good science for thousands of years..worked long B4 double blind studies.

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid

Florida woman...
You write the rest:
- Nearly dies taking Trump pills
- Felt stabbing pain in her lungs fighting reaction to off label usage of drugs
- Is saved by hydroxychloroquine
Her tests results came back the next day and confirmed she had coronavirus. Doctors put her on several medications, including hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria drug that President Donald Trump has touted as a potential medication to treat coronavirus, despite medical experts saying more testing needs to be done to determine that.
On Wednesday, she was put on oxygen.
“I felt like someone was grabbing my lungs with their nails and just squeezing them so tight. The pain, it just felt like stabbing pain in my lungs,” Griffin said.
She spent three days having a hard time breathing, but then, on Friday, she was able to be taken off oxygen.

Tenpoundbass says

FUNNY HOW they disparage 'anecdotal evidence'...was good science for thousands of years..worked long B4 double blind studies.

Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?

I know you won't answer, but I can't help but wonder if you even understand the question.

" I treated a dozen people with this and they all got better." Meanwhile the chance of a dozen people getting better (when the individual probability is .98), assuming independence is .7847. So treat a dozen people, treat another dozen, treat another dozen, treat another dozen and do that 100 times. All 12 are supposed to get better in about 79 of those of those dozens.

You actually kind of need experiments, statistical sampling.

Was it though ?

leeches ?

marcus says

Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?

not 98% of ones who end up in hospital

:
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.

marcus says

:
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.

it is, no doubt.
Philosophically, the problem is that for 30% of population trump is right no matter what he says. For another 30% he is wrong no matter what he says or does. People on this thread were arguing back and forth that HCQ does not work, just because trump said that it works. Appears that trump was very right, and it was easy to see that this is not a topic in which he can bullshit like he usually does - it is a yes/no issue, and him being a used car salesman, he is skillful enough to see where truth can be stretched to extreme and where not. he probably had some advance report from CDC or FDA or NIH and then he touted "this works!" as a good used car salesman would do.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/anti-malaria-drug-being-used-to-treat-texas-city-coronavirus-patients/285-8ada8747-c624-4c8a-8651-64a762086a37

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has announced that 83 patients at a nursing facility in Texas City, Texas, have tested positive for coronavirus, and 30 of those are being administered the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine.

“As of today, about 30 patients are being tested with the hydroxychloroquine to determine whether it will be a successful treatment for the patients,” Abbott said on Monday. “They are in the second day of this testing regimen that will last several more days.”

“We look forward to updating you as the week progresses about how this drug is aiding or not these patients,” Abbott said.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/04/06/denver-doctor-coronavirus-hydroxycholoroquine/

A Denver family physician has been prescribing a controversial medication to his patients, sick with coronavirus, and believes it is yielding positive results. Dr. Constantine Tsamasfyros, who has been a primary care doctor in Denver for nearly 50 years, told CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass he has prescribed a combination of hydroxychloroquine (also known as Plaquenil) and an antibiotic called azithromycin to about a dozen patients over the last few weeks.

“They all did well. They seemed to reverse their symptoms in a day or two,” said Tsamasfyros, who said he “absolutely” believed the medication was working.

“If they’re drowning, you either pull them out of the water or at least throw them a rope to come out,” he said while explaining his decision to prescribe the medication.

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

Heraclitusstudent says

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

@Heraclitusstudent : https://patrick.net/post/1331299?offset=0#comment-1660332

Trump's "stake", lol.

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid

NEW YORK, NY—When Jeffrey Walton tested positive for COVID-19, he hoped for a speedy recovery. But since he has been treated with hydroxychloroquine, the experimental treatment President Donald Trump has been touting, he now hopes he dies quickly to help prove that Trump is an idiot.

So Chris Cuomos wife gave an update on his condition and how she's treating it.

"“Since this particular virus has no proven remedy… she assigned oxygenated herbs, natural remedies and homeopathics to boost Chris’ immune system for the battle ahead,” Cristina wrote. As for food, Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals"

That's right, screw those anti-virals. Since those are unproven, we've gone with herbs, natural remedies, and chicken soup. Remember Steve Jobs trying to cure his cancer with juice? I guess innovation has its limits.

So instead of a medication with a 60 year proven track record, she’s going with homeopathic remedies based on folklore because DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES!!! ZOMG!

Heraclitusstudent says

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to grow up and start thinking critically.

Shaman says

So instead of a medication with a 60 year proven track record, she’s going with homeopathic remedies based on folklore because DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES!!! ZOMG!

So he has a higher probability of dying.... who cares. Remember, people eat Tide Pods....

Life is finite no matter what. Try and live as long as possible, but the absolute fear of death from this cold was hysterical at first. Now it's just pure stupidity from the media. We all end up 6' under, burned or thrown in the woods or ocean. You will die. Enjoy life. Very difficult to enjoy life when you're told to stay in your house because of fat, old sick people.

theoakman says

Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals

I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.