Hydroxychloroquine did not prevent Covid-19 in the first controlled clinical trial.
invite response
2020 Jun 3, 2:18pm 2,564 views 34 comments
by rdm ➕follow (1) 💰tip ignore
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7
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 3:37pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 3:37pm
socal2 says
The Zinc ion, yes, the metal ion, inhibits viral replication. The HCQ helps Zinc's intracellular membrane transport. With that going on, the viral replication rate slows down.
In other words, to quote the infamous Dr Tony Faust, I mean Dr Tony Fauci, it flattens the curve of the speed in which the virus can infiltrate all pulmonary tissue, before the pulmonary system as a whole, can mount a sustainable counterattack w/o systemic damage from cytokine storms.
Hydroxy/Zinc advocates said that it would relieve symptoms
The Zinc ion, yes, the metal ion, inhibits viral replication. The HCQ helps Zinc's intracellular membrane transport. With that going on, the viral replication rate slows down.
In other words, to quote the infamous Dr Tony Faust, I mean Dr Tony Fauci, it flattens the curve of the speed in which the virus can infiltrate all pulmonary tissue, before the pulmonary system as a whole, can mount a sustainable counterattack w/o systemic damage from cytokine storms.
9
rdm
2020 Jun 3, 3:43pm
socal2 says
Trump got on the old TV and said he was taking it to prevent getting the disease, as what is called a prophalaxis. Many people are taking it for that reason so he said.
If you wish to take it go ahead. We finnally have a good study that says it doesnt work for the purpose Trump advocated, I will go with science
When did Trump (or anyone) claim this was a fucking vaccine?
Most of he Hydroxy/Zinc advocates said that it would relieve symptoms and keep your immune system from going into overdrive and killing you from reacting to COVID.
Trump got on the old TV and said he was taking it to prevent getting the disease, as what is called a prophalaxis. Many people are taking it for that reason so he said.
If you wish to take it go ahead. We finnally have a good study that says it doesnt work for the purpose Trump advocated, I will go with science
10
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 3:52pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 3:52pm
rdm says
You mean the science which doesn't include the science of where the Zinc ion is needed to inhibit viral replication.
FYI, my degree is in applied chemistry and membrane transport was my thesis project.
I will go with science
You mean the science which doesn't include the science of where the Zinc ion is needed to inhibit viral replication.
FYI, my degree is in applied chemistry and membrane transport was my thesis project.
11
rdm
2020 Jun 3, 6:13pm
Rin says
Things that work in the lab often don't work in the human body. Many drugs show promise in early testing that are a total bust.
I was looking at a general protocol for treatment of Covid-19 and zinc was one of the options, there were many others including vitamin C and D and several others a sort of what can it hurt list. I don't know if this study included zinc or not, it may have.
You mean the science which doesn't include the science of where the Zinc ion is needed to inhibit viral replication.
Things that work in the lab often don't work in the human body. Many drugs show promise in early testing that are a total bust.
I was looking at a general protocol for treatment of Covid-19 and zinc was one of the options, there were many others including vitamin C and D and several others a sort of what can it hurt list. I don't know if this study included zinc or not, it may have.
13
Shaman
2020 Jun 3, 6:25pm
Shaman
2020 Jun 3, 6:25pm
Who the fuck cares!! Covid19 was a dam hoax and that’s the truth. Just another fucking cold/flu variant with minimal ability to kill people and even that is spent after months of mutating to become weaker and less deadly. It’s over.
It’s over!
It’s OVER!!!
It’s over!
It’s OVER!!!
14
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 3, 6:25pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Jun 3, 6:25pm
rdm says
Re-read your article. HCQ doesn't prevent COVID19. Nobody claimed it did. NYT and the Researchers are attacking a strawman.
Huh?
Re-read your article. HCQ doesn't prevent COVID19. Nobody claimed it did. NYT and the Researchers are attacking a strawman.
15
Shaman
2020 Jun 3, 6:27pm
Shaman
2020 Jun 3, 6:27pm
NoCoupForYou says
This much was glaringly obvious in the fucking OP headline! Straw man study. HCQ also won’t send you to the moon, therefore it’s failure and ORANGEMANBAD!
rdm saysHuh?
Re-read your article. HCQ doesn't prevent COVID19. Nobody claimed it did. NYT and the Researchers are attacking a strawman.
This much was glaringly obvious in the fucking OP headline! Straw man study. HCQ also won’t send you to the moon, therefore it’s failure and ORANGEMANBAD!
16
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 6:53pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 6:53pm
rdm says
Actually, this one didn't. It used azithromycin, an antibiotic, which has nothing to do with viral inhibition, to create a type of botched study, as an antibiotic has little effect on a viral replication cycle. Antibiotics basically kill bacterial cell cultures which is great if one has a staph infection alongside Covid-19, but does nothing to control an RNA fragment virus from growing in an out of control replication cycle.
The South Korean study, however, did use the Zinc ion and it also removed the 'end-of-life' patients who're pretty much at death's door and can't be helped, no matter what.
And the reason why Zinc alone 'doesn't work' in many so-called clinical cases is that it stays in the blood stream and doesn't cross the cell membrane. So the best way to botch a Zinc study is to supersaturate it, so that a patient gets heavy metal toxicity. This is why the Zinc lozenges for colds, supposedly don't work.
Thus, the use of HCQ is to make that membrane permeable so that a small amount of Zinc, can enter the cell, prior to the body reaching the point of metal toxicity. So if you want to then kill a Zinc study, give the patients high dosages of Zinc w/o HCQ and make 'em sick.
You see, this is the state of our medical establishment today. They don't know science (or make a pretense of promoting it), so that a future drug (see remdesivir) or vaccine can be promoted.
I don't know if this study included zinc or not
Actually, this one didn't. It used azithromycin, an antibiotic, which has nothing to do with viral inhibition, to create a type of botched study, as an antibiotic has little effect on a viral replication cycle. Antibiotics basically kill bacterial cell cultures which is great if one has a staph infection alongside Covid-19, but does nothing to control an RNA fragment virus from growing in an out of control replication cycle.
The South Korean study, however, did use the Zinc ion and it also removed the 'end-of-life' patients who're pretty much at death's door and can't be helped, no matter what.
And the reason why Zinc alone 'doesn't work' in many so-called clinical cases is that it stays in the blood stream and doesn't cross the cell membrane. So the best way to botch a Zinc study is to supersaturate it, so that a patient gets heavy metal toxicity. This is why the Zinc lozenges for colds, supposedly don't work.
Thus, the use of HCQ is to make that membrane permeable so that a small amount of Zinc, can enter the cell, prior to the body reaching the point of metal toxicity. So if you want to then kill a Zinc study, give the patients high dosages of Zinc w/o HCQ and make 'em sick.
You see, this is the state of our medical establishment today. They don't know science (or make a pretense of promoting it), so that a future drug (see remdesivir) or vaccine can be promoted.
17
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 7:24pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 7:24pm
BTW, if anyone is curious, before I'd gone into IT and later, finance (for the real money and being able to fuck hoes regularly), I had actually worked in biopharma.
There was a polymer product, said to be 'safe' because it used a high no of chained monomers (large molecules which couldn't be absorbed by the digestive tract), so that its effects, didn't result in low molecular weight poisonous products, leaching into the blood stream.
Well ... being Rin, I did analysis on many of the stuff, shipped around, and found that the small molecular weight "poisons", were in every other batch, some up to 20%. In other words, while no one would die immediately, after 10-15 years, who knew what could happen in terms of deleterious effects, esp if the liver stopped being able to process the stray monomers.
Yes ppl, we're not dealing with honorable persons here but corporate hacks, looking for a buck.
There was a polymer product, said to be 'safe' because it used a high no of chained monomers (large molecules which couldn't be absorbed by the digestive tract), so that its effects, didn't result in low molecular weight poisonous products, leaching into the blood stream.
Well ... being Rin, I did analysis on many of the stuff, shipped around, and found that the small molecular weight "poisons", were in every other batch, some up to 20%. In other words, while no one would die immediately, after 10-15 years, who knew what could happen in terms of deleterious effects, esp if the liver stopped being able to process the stray monomers.
Yes ppl, we're not dealing with honorable persons here but corporate hacks, looking for a buck.
18
Onvacation
2020 Jun 3, 7:32pm
Onvacation
2020 Jun 3, 7:32pm
rdm says
that Trump is blamed for everything from police brutality to medicine that doesn't work
Be for something rather than against Trump. Find a candidate that has values you can believe in.
If not Trump, Biden? If not Biden, who? I was a registered Democrat, the non racist kind. and supported Tulsi. She would have given Trump a fight. She was for something and not just against Trump.
We are replaying 2016 with the propaganda machine in overdrive.
They declared systematic racism by cops after a white officer, assisted by a black, a middle eastern, and an Asian officer, restrained a suspected felon who had been resisting arrest. They went too far but it wasn't about race and systematic racism, it was about some brutal cops torturing a man to death after he was down. Let the prosecutor charge them accordingly and let a jury decide their fate. Mobs do not rule civil society. They blame Trump because "he's a racist."
They toppled the economy over a cold; blamed Trump because he's incompetent.
They tried to impeach with bogus claims of bribing Ukraine.
They accused him of colluding with Russia for 3 years with no evidence.
Why? What the hell is going on in our country?
Who are they? The media and all of the deep state actors that want the corruption to go on as it has been.
Every little thing gets blamed on Trump as if he controls everything and yet Trump has been exonerated of all charges thrown at him.
Be for something. Going against Trump without any viable alternative is masochistic.
Sad
that Trump is blamed for everything from police brutality to medicine that doesn't work
Be for something rather than against Trump. Find a candidate that has values you can believe in.
If not Trump, Biden? If not Biden, who? I was a registered Democrat, the non racist kind. and supported Tulsi. She would have given Trump a fight. She was for something and not just against Trump.
We are replaying 2016 with the propaganda machine in overdrive.
They declared systematic racism by cops after a white officer, assisted by a black, a middle eastern, and an Asian officer, restrained a suspected felon who had been resisting arrest. They went too far but it wasn't about race and systematic racism, it was about some brutal cops torturing a man to death after he was down. Let the prosecutor charge them accordingly and let a jury decide their fate. Mobs do not rule civil society. They blame Trump because "he's a racist."
They toppled the economy over a cold; blamed Trump because he's incompetent.
They tried to impeach with bogus claims of bribing Ukraine.
They accused him of colluding with Russia for 3 years with no evidence.
Why? What the hell is going on in our country?
Who are they? The media and all of the deep state actors that want the corruption to go on as it has been.
Every little thing gets blamed on Trump as if he controls everything and yet Trump has been exonerated of all charges thrown at him.
Be for something. Going against Trump without any viable alternative is masochistic.
19
WookieMan
2020 Jun 3, 7:34pm
WookieMan
2020 Jun 3, 7:34pm
Rin says
Hence why I won't even take a pain reliever. If I need to numb pain in my world, I probably need to go to a doctor or the ER. Which hopefully means I'll catch an issue quicker instead of masking it.
Yes ppl, we're not dealing with honorable persons here but corporate hacks, looking for a buck.
Hence why I won't even take a pain reliever. If I need to numb pain in my world, I probably need to go to a doctor or the ER. Which hopefully means I'll catch an issue quicker instead of masking it.
20
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 7:42pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 7:42pm
WookieMan says
NSAIDs, unless you're talking about some Oxy/Morphine derivatives, are generic and off patent.
WookieMan says
Reference the Oxy/Morphine thing again. Remember, Oxycontin, according to Purdue Pharmaceuticals was not addictive, unlike its cousin Morphine, even though the molecules are very similar.
https://patrick.net/post/1279660/2015-04-02-for-curious2-morphine-vs-oxycontin
Hence why I won't even take a pain reliever.
NSAIDs, unless you're talking about some Oxy/Morphine derivatives, are generic and off patent.
WookieMan says
If I need to numb pain in my world, I probably need to go to a doctor or the ER. Which hopefully means I'll catch an issue quicker instead of masking it.
Reference the Oxy/Morphine thing again. Remember, Oxycontin, according to Purdue Pharmaceuticals was not addictive, unlike its cousin Morphine, even though the molecules are very similar.
https://patrick.net/post/1279660/2015-04-02-for-curious2-morphine-vs-oxycontin
Morphine:
Oxycontin:
Aside from a slight bit of dehydrogenation, which is why the hydroxyl group is shifted, they're almost the same thing.
21
mostly_reader
2020 Jun 3, 8:09pm
You can stop reading right after the headline. I don't think that HDC was ever touted as a preventive measure. HDC is supposed to help if the person already has Covid-19.
22
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:13pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:13pm
HEYYOU says
HEYYOU, I guess you missed my entire analysis of the Zinc ion and that the HCQ, was only its carrier.
You're looking more and more like a troll, everyday.
Remember, I have a degree in Applied Chemistry. You, on the other hand, have a degree in "I Love Tony Facci" and mainstream brainwashing.
"The malaria drug hydroxychloroquine did not help prevent people who had been exposed to others with Covid-19 from developing the disease, according to the results of an eagerly awaited study that was published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine."
Notice that this is not the NYT or some RepCon propaganda from Rightwingnut media.
I do forget that RepCons think they are clever.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-prevent-covid-19-infection-in-people-who-have-been-exposed-study-says/
HEYYOU, I guess you missed my entire analysis of the Zinc ion and that the HCQ, was only its carrier.
You're looking more and more like a troll, everyday.
Remember, I have a degree in Applied Chemistry. You, on the other hand, have a degree in "I Love Tony Facci" and mainstream brainwashing.
23
PeopleUnited
2020 Jun 3, 8:28pm
PeopleUnited
2020 Jun 3, 8:28pm
mostly_reader says
It is funny how misinformed people are. There are several ongoing clinical trials where health care workers are taking HCQ as viral prophylaxis. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04336748
So it is used for both treatment and prevention.
Here is Lost actor Daniel Dae Kim’s HCQ experience: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/daniel-dae-kim-says-hes-183004541.html
You can stop reading right after the headline. I don't think that HDC was ever touted as a preventive measure. HDC is supposed to help if the person already has Covid-19.
It is funny how misinformed people are. There are several ongoing clinical trials where health care workers are taking HCQ as viral prophylaxis. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04336748
So it is used for both treatment and prevention.
Here is Lost actor Daniel Dae Kim’s HCQ experience: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/daniel-dae-kim-says-hes-183004541.html
24
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:40pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:40pm
HEYYOU says
Hilarious, more stupid ppl without a chemistry background, taking megadoses of HCQ (FYI, not safe) without Zinc, which is the real ingredient in the antiviral process.
BTW, I took the MCAT and scored a 34, the first time. So I can easily compete against many MDs.
And that's right, Tony Facci will pay me to do HCQ/Zinc studies. LOL!
I'm sure that your chemistry grades were all C's and D's.
Or from another source that is not as qualified as some self absorbed egotistical patnetters that don't have a medical degree & have not done a clinical study on HCQ.
Hilarious, more stupid ppl without a chemistry background, taking megadoses of HCQ (FYI, not safe) without Zinc, which is the real ingredient in the antiviral process.
BTW, I took the MCAT and scored a 34, the first time. So I can easily compete against many MDs.
And that's right, Tony Facci will pay me to do HCQ/Zinc studies. LOL!
I'm sure that your chemistry grades were all C's and D's.
26
theoakman
2020 Jun 3, 8:45pm
Rin, you are trying to discuss terms with people who probably didn't even do well in their high school chemistry class. That's a losing proposition.
29
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:48pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:48pm
Nah, I want to bury this loser. I think it's about time that the misinformation about true 'clinical trials' vs BS 'political ones' are brought out.
30
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:50pm
Rin
2020 Jun 3, 8:50pm
Though I don't think that Trump is an outstanding man of character, the fact that he brings up a potential treatment (prophylactic but not end-of-life), doesn't make that treatment invalid, just because his name is Donald J Trump.
31
rdm
2020 Jun 3, 9:53pm
mostly_reader says
Really oh come now, alternative facts. So why was Trump taking it? Please proceed.
don't think that HDC was ever touted as a preventive measure.
Really oh come now, alternative facts. So why was Trump taking it? Please proceed.
32
rdm
2020 Jun 3, 9:56pm
Rin says
Agreed but that the reverse is also true. Its pretty clear to anyone that has heard his ...words...that he knows nothing about medicine or science and should just not speak about these matters.
doesn't make that treatment invalid, just because his name is Donald J Trump.
Agreed but that the reverse is also true. Its pretty clear to anyone that has heard his ...words...that he knows nothing about medicine or science and should just not speak about these matters.
33
richwicks
2020 Jun 5, 10:05am
richwicks
2020 Jun 5, 10:05am
rdm says
Obviously Trump doesn't know anything about medicine.
However, he's a well connected man, and knows people who do know about medicine. He's set up the media so many times. He has a group of people that are trustworthy and have given him great information.
Remember when the entire US media was calling him a crackpot for claiming that Obama wiretapped him? Well, Obama did - how did Trump know this? It's not that he's a genius, it's that he knew people that told him Obama wiretapped him, and he is very good at figuring out who is telling him the truth. That is his genius.
doesn't make that treatment invalid, just because his name is Donald J Trump.
Agreed but that the reverse is also true. Its pretty clear to anyone that has heard his ...words...that he knows nothing about medicine or science and should just not speak about these matters.
Obviously Trump doesn't know anything about medicine.
However, he's a well connected man, and knows people who do know about medicine. He's set up the media so many times. He has a group of people that are trustworthy and have given him great information.
Remember when the entire US media was calling him a crackpot for claiming that Obama wiretapped him? Well, Obama did - how did Trump know this? It's not that he's a genius, it's that he knew people that told him Obama wiretapped him, and he is very good at figuring out who is telling him the truth. That is his genius.
34
rdm
2020 Jun 5, 12:10pm
richwicks says
Agree
richwicks says
Name a few, other than the great leader Putin.
Really Trump has surrounded himself with sycophants who mostly give him what he wants to hear. He doesn't read, his briefings are done with cartoons, and fires anyone who contradics him, if they dont quit or "resign."
richwicks says
He didn't, because that is a lie and you know it. Trump pulled that out of his ass
Obviously Trump doesn't know anything about medicine.
Agree
richwicks says
He has a group of people that are trustworthy and have given him great information.
Name a few, other than the great leader Putin.
Really Trump has surrounded himself with sycophants who mostly give him what he wants to hear. He doesn't read, his briefings are done with cartoons, and fires anyone who contradics him, if they dont quit or "resign."
richwicks says
crackpot for claiming that Obama wiretapped him? Well, Obama did - how did Trump know this?
He didn't, because that is a lie and you know it. Trump pulled that out of his ass
"The malaria drug hydroxychloroquine did not prevent Covid-19 in a rigorous study of 821 people who had been exposed to patients infected with the virus, researchers from the University of Minnesota and Canada are reporting Wednesday.
The study was the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that President Trump has repeatedly promoted and said he had taken himself to try to ward off the virus.
Conducted in the United States and Canada, the trial was the first to test whether the drug could prevent illness in people who have been exposed to the virus. This type of study, in which patients are picked at random to receive either an experimental treatment or a placebo, is considered the most reliable way to measure the safety and effectiveness of a drug.
“The take-home message for the general public is that if you’re exposed to someone with Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine is not an effective post-exposure, preventive therapy,” the lead author of the study, Dr. David R. Boulware of the University of Minnesota, said in an interview.
The results are being published in The New England Journal of Medicine.
The president’s promotion of the drug, and the backlash against it, have politicized medical questions that would normally have been left to researchers to answer objectively. The drug is approved to treat rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, as well as malaria, and is considered safe for those patients as long as they do not have underlying abnormalities in their heart rhythm.
Studies in very ill coronavirus patients have linked the drug — especially when combined with the antibiotic azithromycin — to dangerous heart-rhythm disorders, and both the Food and Drug Administration and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases have warned that it should not be used outside of clinical trials or in hospitals."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/world/coronavirus-live.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-11655606