patrick.net

But you don't care about Program audits? What if there is enough Taxes being paid in America to end every problem we face in the world. But all of the money goes to paying Antifa and BLM to undermine our Government and overthrow Trump?

I say we stop paying all taxes, we're literally paying the people trying to destroy us.

Interesting issue.

Most tech companies make money by eliminating sections of the physical economy, replacing them with cheaper virtual goods.

Perhaps the single most dramatic example of this phenomenon of software eating a traditional business is the suicide of Borders and corresponding rise of Amazon. In 2001, Borders agreed to hand over its online business to Amazon under the theory that online book sales were non-strategic and unimportant.

https://a16z.com/2011/08/20/why-software-is-eating-the-world/

So they clearly make the economy more efficient at delivering what people want, but they also eliminate opportunity for vast swathes of ordinary people.

Zak says

There is a clear way to not pay it.

Yes, it’s called incorporating outside the USA and moving all the jobs overseas.

Annnnddd this is why I liked Trump on China.... You can't move jobs overseas if you have no viable market to import back to.

Tax - I think the problem we run into is who thinks and who repeats mantras. Yes, liberals are constantly trying to raise taxes, and conservatives rebel and say "no more taxes". But this is just dumb. We have to still take the issues as they rise. Why are we taxing personal income? Tax capital gains, property, and international trade, but making a guy who can barely support himself on minimum wage do ANY kind of paperwork is shit stupid. If we want to tax the middle class, let them save and invest enough that we tax them on their assets and gains. If they want to spend all their money.. fine! A meager business paid social safety net should exist for morons who reach 65 with no savings. Don't punish the prudent by taking away their opportunity to build long term wealth by taxing them before they have any.

I think the biggest fear is that if we stop taxing the poor we will have no means to control them through tax incentives. I can't think of a single good reason to take a poor person, and add red tape, paperwork, and stress to their life through a tax system. Business will control the flow of money to them through jobs, so tax business and let the poor people have some frickin peace.

I think people inherently know this, and thus the federal taxes they have virtually no chance to avoid poison them on all the good taxes and public works provide us. It's a challenge then to get them to understand when other taxes are different. They've been lied to enough times that the trust is gone. Eliminate the income tax, and watch America rebuild trust in its government.

50% of the population pays no federal income tax.

I’m for a standard deduction equal to the poverty level and then a simple flat tax that we set every year to cover last years spending. No corporate taxes. I could see doing tariffs to offset foreign ones.

Zak says

Annnnddd this is why I liked Trump on China.... You can't move jobs overseas if you have no viable market to import back to.

They still do. Our elite can drain the US of cash for a few more decades at least.

But eventually the US will be Pakistan, because of globalization.

Under the new law, any company whose top executive earns 100 times more than their average worker

Companies will just lay off all their low-pay workers and hire them through a shell corporation. Problem solved. Is Tim Cook really not worth 100x more than the janitor? Under non-Trump immigration policy, the country lets in hoards of unskilled immigrants who don't know how to code or even speak English; if Apple offered those workers $50/hour how would they possibly choose which ones of the millions of applications to hire?

I voted against it, because SF already has $12BN in revenue.
Why do they need more?

Zak says

I can't think of a single good reason to take a poor person, and add red tape, paperwork, and stress to their life through a tax system.

A poor person, if you indirectly tax the employer, thinks they aren't getting taxed and always pushes for higher taxes and more "free stuff." That's why I love the idea of a flat tax with limited (possibly 0) deductions or exemptions. Everyone has skin in the game and pushing for more "free stuff" means you are going to be directly affected with higher flat-tax rate or reduced "free stuff" in some other area. Many western countries have simple enough tax systems that the regular worker has almost no effort filing.

SunnyvaleCA says

Under the new law, any company whose top executive earns 100 times more than their average worker

Companies will just lay off all their low-pay workers and hire them through a shell corporation. Problem solved.

Even easier than that, and intentionally so, to make a carve out for pukes like Apple. Apple can easily say that all the California based engineers and designers are paid a high wage, and that Timmy is not paid 100x more. All the actual production is in China done by slave wage workers, and these wages will not count in the calculation. Workers that are not involved in design and engineering (such as cafeteria and janitorial) will contacted out to independent firms, or maybe even gig workers now.

"A poor person, if you indirectly tax the employer, thinks they aren't getting taxed and always pushes for higher taxes and more "free stuff." "

Bad argument. A poor person already isn't paying federal income tax after deductions. We're just making them fill out a bunch of paperwork to prove they are poor basically. And we get to hire some people in government to make sure we review that paperwork.

Nothing about filling out paperwork prevents people from voting for more free stuff for themselves.

However, if taxes ONLY came from business, politicians would have to go after business to get the revenue they want to spend. When business comes under the microscope, you can be damn sure they will make sure the competition is paying their fair share. You would seemingly have lawyers from FORD and Kraft reviewing the tax law that is letting Apple and Google off the hook with Double Irish sandwiches to take the pressure off the blue chips.

THIS is what I want.. policy battles where equally sized businesses are fighting each other, rather than a bunch of individuals fighting tax law against massive corporations. It's just not a fair fight currently.

Zak says

There is a clear way to not pay it

You know that many CEOs have $1 salaries, dontcha? And Bezos' salary is something like $83K. This is pure bullshit - nobody will pay a single red cent.

Zak says

When business comes under the microscope, you can be damn sure they will make sure the competition is paying their fair share.

Ah. Yes. That does make sense. Thanks!

Zak says

"A poor person, if you indirectly tax the employer, thinks they aren't getting taxed and always pushes for higher taxes and more "free stuff." "

Bad argument. A poor person already isn't paying federal income tax after deductions. We're just making them fill out a bunch of paperwork to prove they are poor basically. And we get to hire some people in government to make sure we review that paperwork.

Nothing about filling out paperwork prevents people from voting for more free stuff for themselves.

You are leaving something out. Many of the 50% who do not pay taxes still are subject to withholding get a "refund" in April. Also add in Earned Income Credit. Now you have a set of low income people who do not want income tax removed, as they would perceive a loss of benefit.