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John McAfee On Bitcoin

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My bitcoin is worth $50!!!

The money has to go somewhere.

Back in 2011 about a year after BTC was created, the silver boom brought it to about $50 ounce, and back to early 1980's all time high price level.

The question is how much of an adoption or acceptance will there be of BTC ? Will it essentially be a staple like 5% of assets of the average investor ? Such as 5% in BTC, 5% in gold and silver and 5% in an oil and gas ETF.

I guess if BTC goes down, then those cashing in their BTC capital gains would roll it into silver or gold as far as hedging against fiat currency.

AD says

hedging against fiat currency

Silver, gold, platinum, guns, ammo and yams; these are all hedges on hyperinflation.

BTC is much more fiat than any of the above. BTC IS fiat!

When the dollar goes to zero, bitcoin goes to infinity; simple physics.

Onvacation says

When the dollar goes to zero, bitcoin goes to infinity; simple physics.

Not sure about that. If society collapses then no one will want to use BTC as much as they want to use the dollar. But yes, I see your point as far as inverse relationship between dollar and BTC.

I wonder what Saylor was thinking about average annual inflation when he said BTC on average will return 30% annually for next 20 years.



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Onvacation says

AD says

hedging against fiat currency

Silver, gold, platinum, guns, ammo and yams; these are all hedges on hyperinflation.

BTC is much more fiat than any of the above. BTC IS fiat!

When the dollar goes to zero, bitcoin goes to infinity; simple physics.

They say you can't eat gold - neither can you eat your bitcoin wallet.

stereotomy says

They say you can't eat gold - neither can you eat your bitcoin wallet.

Lets hope and pray we never get to the point where that concept or rule applies. If we do, then only those who have prepper and homesteading skills will thrive.

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seems like Bitcoin would track with M2 money supply

Onvacation says

My bitcoin is worth $50!!!

Up to $55

I have no problem understanding a 1oz silver coin. But I never understood Bitcoin. Is it a currency?
How so?

The_Deplorable says

I have no problem understanding a 1oz silver coin. But I never understood Bitcoin. Is it a currency?
How so?

People can trade it for goods and services. However, I have seen exactly the same number of people do so as I have seen people use a 1 oz silver coin for such things. That is zero.

Misc says

People can trade it for goods and services. However, I have seen exactly the same number of people do so as I have seen people use a 1 oz silver coin for such things. That is zero.

One big difference between silver/gold and btc is you can toss someone a silver quarter but you can't easily give someone a couple thousand Satoshis. If you can't hold it you don't own it. Bitcoin is not touchable.

Bitcoin as a currency is ridiculous. Silver and gold have been money almost since the concept of money started.

Onvacation says

Silver and gold have been money almost since the concept of money started.

They ain't money now. Try buying groceries with it.

In Arizona you can supposedly pay your State income tax with gold/silver, but I ain't gonna try it. Just a way to get audited for the rest of your life.

Misc says

They ain't money now. Try buying groceries with it.

Constitutionally, gold and silver are the only real money. Digital currency is the dystopian future.

Yes:

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

Section. 10.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts

What happened with that? It's still in the Constitution, so how is it allowed that states are using Things which are not gold and silver in payment of debts.

Grok:

Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution states: “No State shall… make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.” This prohibits states from declaring anything other than gold and silver coins as legal tender (currency that must be accepted to settle debts).Why Non-Gold/Silver Currency is Used:Federal Legal Tender: The federal government, not bound by this restriction, has authority to issue currency under the Necessary and Proper Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 18) and other implied powers (see below). Congress passed the Legal Tender Acts (1862–1863), making U.S. paper currency (“greenbacks”) legal tender for all debts, public and private, nationwide. States must accept this federal currency because federal law supersedes state law under the Supremacy Clause (Article VI, Clause 2).

You’re correct that the Constitution doesn’t explicitly grant Congress the power to “coin Money” beyond gold and silver or to issue paper currency. Article I, Section 8, Clause 5 grants Congress the power to “coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin,” which historically referred to minting physical coins. So, how is federal paper/digital currency constitutional, and why isn’t currency reserved to the states?

The Supreme Court case McCulloch v. Maryland (1819) established that Congress has implied powers under the Necessary and Proper Clause to enact laws supporting its enumerated powers. Creating a national currency facilitates commerce (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) and taxation/borrowing (Clauses 1–2).

In the Legal Tender Cases (1870–1884), the Supreme Court upheld the federal government’s authority to issue paper currency as legal tender. In Knox v. Lee (1871) and Juilliard v. Greenman (1884), the Court ruled that paper money was a “necessary and proper” means to fund the government, regulate commerce, and ensure economic stability, even though not explicitly listed in Article I, Section 8.

It seems contradictory to say it is "necessary and proper" for the federal government to violate the Constitution, which clearly says that the federal government "coin money", and not "print money".

Onvacation says

Onvacation says

My bitcoin is worth $50!!!

Up to $55

$65 a coin now.

If they run out of silver bitcoins they can mint more. As silver gets more expensive unprofitable sources become profitable. If the electricity goes out I'm still holding my coin.

When they run out of bitcoins massive amounts of electricity will still be required to sustain the "coins" still in "circulation". The bitcoin scam uses terms like "coin", "mining", "market cap", "digital gold", and "intrinsic value" to fool the gullible into thinking it is something other than a sequence of zeros and ones.

Silver was money before history and people are still mining it. Bitcoin is not money and the last one will be "mined" in 2140 assuming they don't "fork" more "coins" into existence. Buy it now and hope a bigger fool will pay more for if in the future but it is not an investment, it's a gamble that some fool will pay more than you did.

For now, there are way more fools than bitcoins.

Onvacation says

For now, there are way more fools than bitcoins.

Bitcoin is a finite asset whereas at most there will only be 21 million Bitcoin (or BTC).

Even Larry Fink is supporting BTC as part of asset allocation.

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AD says

Bitcoin is a finite asset whereas at most there will only be 21 million Bitcoin (or BTC).

Are they going to run out of zeros and ones?
AD says

Even Larry Fink is supporting BTC as part of asset allocation.

Even Larry Fink?

Bitcoin is not an asset. It's a gamble.

Over 2,000 posts and no one has stated how you can make money from Bitcoin without finding a greater fool to pay more than you paid for it.

YoungHoon Kim – Manipulation Has Passed, and BTC Is Ready for a New ATH
In contrast, YoungHoon Kim — whose verified IQ score is 276 — views the situation through the lens of game theory.

In his latest assessment, Kim argues that the current dip represents temporary manipulation by market whales. He believes it could fade within a week. After that, Bitcoin may move toward a new all-time high.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/peter-brandt-world-highest-iq-083932437.html

Onvacation says

Over 2,000 posts and no one has stated how you can make money from Bitcoin without finding a greater fool to pay more than you paid for it.

Pretty much every buttcoin assertion is false: Governments can trace it, it can be stolen/defrauded, and it's still not used in transactions outside of buying drugs or laundering money mostly by larger sophisticated criminal orgs. iTulips.

FreeAmericanDOP says

it's still not used in transactions outside of buying drugs or laundering money

And paying ransom.

PNC which is a major US bank is creating accounts for Bitcoin as part of normalizing and adopting it whereas clients will have it as part of their banking services (checking, savings, Bitcoin, etc)

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https://bitcoinmagazine.com/news/pnc-offers-direct-bitcoin-trading

PNC Becomes First Major U.S. Bank to Offer Direct Bitcoin Trading to Clients via Coinbase
PNC Bank is now the first major U.S. bank to offer eligible Private Bank clients direct bitcoin trading through its platform, powered by Coinbase’s infrastructure.

If bitcoin is valued in fiat is it more fiat or less fiat than fiat?

Onvacation says

If bitcoin is valued in fiat is it more fiat or less fiat than fiat?

Same goes for gold and silver priced in US dollars.

Is Bitcoin "More Fiat" or "Less Fiat"?

• More fiat (measurement sense)

• If Bitcoin is quoted in dollars, its market perception is tethered to fiat.

• Every price chart, every exchange rate, every “BTC/USD” ticker reinforces fiat as the reference frame.

• In this sense, Bitcoin becomes “more fiat” because its value is expressed through fiat lenses.

• Less fiat (essence sense)

• Bitcoin itself is not fiat: it’s scarce, decentralized, and not decreed by a government.

• Its supply is capped at 21 million, unlike fiat which can be expanded at will.

• In this sense, Bitcoin is “less fiat” because it resists the inflationary and political dynamics of fiat.

Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick's Cantor Fitzgerald's 21 Capital went public today.

.................
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/twenty-one-capital-goes-live-212013737.html

A Bitcoin Giant’s Wall Street Debut
Trading under the ticker XXI, the company enters the market with more than 43,500 Bitcoin on its balance sheet.

That holding, worth about $3.9 billion, makes Twenty One Capital one of the largest corporate holders of the asset. Jack Mallers, who co-founded the firm, framed the listing as a bid to give Bitcoin a defined place in traditional markets. He argued that investors deserve access to a company built entirely on Bitcoin’s monetary logic.

AD says

ts supply is capped at 21 million

Wanna bet ????

Since the Exchanges allow you to short it, that allows the supply to expand. A person doesn't know if his Bitcoin is real unless it is secured in his own personal wallet. Nobody knows how much fiated Bitcoin there is.

I'm sure it is multiples of the 21 million. I dunno if it is as bad as the precious metals.

AD says

Bitcoin is “less fiat” because it resists the inflationary and political dynamics of fiat.

Or maybe bitcoin's a scheme for the same people that control the fiat currencies. Not only is it a simple method to transfer large amounts of cash, it also soaks up some of the dollars that would otherwise be invested in real things like stocks, bonds, real estate, and precious metals.

Bitcoin is fragile.

The whole thing depends on no one figuring out how to reverse the hash function it uses.

If someone figures that out, it's over.