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Student loan forgiveness


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2021 Feb 5, 3:30pm   5,906 views  67 comments

by Zak   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

If college education actually cost $100k (for example) to provide, then why is it unrealistic that the student pays it off over an amortized period of time at a low interest rate. Isn't that exactly what a tax plan is????? Except with the tax plan, you pay for it whether you use it or not, you never get to stop paying, and you don't get any choice over what school the money goes to. Doesn't that seem worse in every possible way? It's not like lenders are making bank on gouging student loan interest rates, its like 1-2% or something.

If the argument is that 100k is a ridiculous amount for school to cost, then how is paying for it with taxes or debt forgiveness going to fix that in any way ever? At least with a direct responsibility for a high tuition, people will be choosing to get cheaper and equal or nearly equal alternatives via price substitution...

Here is my take on the solution to this problem:

1) Reinstate the ability to declare bankruptcy to discharge student loan debt BUT make there be a 10 year discharge period, with a 10% income repayment cap. This allows people to get out of their debt in the event of life events, but doesn't let them off the hook entirely. It also returns responsibility to the lenders to lend less money if the student doesn't have a good prospect of finding a job with the degree they intend to pursue (or have other means of paying).

2) If the student applies for bankruptcy after completing a degree, the school becomes liable for 30% of the debt remaining after the 10 year payoff period is over for the student. This gives schools some incentive to not steer students into majors that won't let them pay the bills.

What do you guys think?

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41   HeadSet   2023 Mar 13, 6:21pm  

AmericanKulak says

don't need a culinary degree to operate a restaurant

Correct. A Culinary college around here (Johnson and Wales University) was easy to get in and easy to graduate. I did notice when I went to one of the graduations, how the dean spoke ahead of the ceremony warning that grads may not get good jobs straight away. That is, a kid came in after working McDonalds, spent 4 years at J&W, then goes back to working at McDonalds.
42   Eric Holder   2023 Mar 13, 6:43pm  

HeadSet says

AmericanKulak says


don't need a culinary degree to operate a restaurant

Correct. A Culinary college around here (Johnson and Wales University) was easy to get in and easy to graduate. I did notice when I went to one of the graduations, how the dean spoke ahead of the ceremony warning that grads may not get good jobs straight away. That is, a kid came in after working McDonalds, spent 4 years at J&W, then goes back to working at McDonalds.


The whole thing about Culinary degree is weird. To me this is more like trade, not much different from plumbing or welding.
43   richwicks   2023 Mar 13, 9:09pm  

Eric Holder says

The whole thing about Culinary degree is weird. To me this is more like trade, not much different from plumbing or welding.


You really need a bit of talent to be a good cook and it takes practice. I know I don't have a broad enough palette to be a decent chef.
44   Patrick   2024 Jun 26, 11:37am  

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/unprepared-wednesday-june-26-2024


After the Supreme Court blocked his sweeping student loan cancellation last summer, Biden bragged “we can’t have a debate because cannibal rappers named Ice Tea ate Donald Trump.” No, wait, that was a different time. What happened was, not one to let the top court in the land tell him what to do, Biden ineloquently boasted, in a hissed stage whisper, “That didn’t stop me.”

In a 61-page order, penned by two Obama-era judges, a Missouri federal court stayed most of Joe’s new and improved loan forgiveness plan. Eighteen states, including Florida, sued, arguing Biden’s so-called SAVE Plan — actually a giant SPEND plan — wasn’t authorized by Congress, turned loans into grants, and was overall uglier than a slimy hairball the judge’s hairless Persian recently coughed up.

The order held that Biden’s SAVE Plan likely violates the Supreme Court’s major questions doctrine, because it is “‘an enormous and transformative expansion in statutory authority without clear congressional authorization.’” And the court noted the $475 billion estimated price tag would “forgive nearly one-third of all student loan debt.”

Most voters are less enthusiastic about paying off other people’s student loans than Secret Service agents debating who’s going to take Biden’s bite-happy German shepherd Commander for its next walk.

“By attempting to saddle working Missourians with Ivy League debt, Joe Biden is undermining our constitutional structure,” Missouri’s Attorney General Andrew Bailey said. “Only Congress has the power of the purse, not the President. Today’s ruling was a huge win for the rule of law, and for every American who Joe Biden was about to force to pay off someone else’s debt.”

The student loan issue is such a dumb political football. If they wanted to solve it, it could be solved in about ten minutes by letting people with unaffordable student loans discharge them in bankruptcy. The Constitutional bankruptcy system already has all the safeguards to ensure people don’t take undue advantage, and only use it when necessary.
45   Patrick   2024 Jul 1, 6:47pm  

https://slaynews.com/news/multiple-court-orders-force-biden-admin-freeze-student-debt-forgiveness/


Democrat President Joe Biden’s administration has been forced to stop all student debt forgiveness programs after multiple court orders.

Federal judges in Kansas and Missouri sided in favor of Republican attorneys general. ...

Republicans have slammed the plans as a barely disguised scheme to buy votes for President Biden using taxpayer dollars.

The news comes as Biden faces growing battles as he hopes to cling to power. ...

The empty promises that Biden made about what he would do in his four years in office were a draw for many at the time.

However, many will be unlikely to be fooled again this time around.
46   HeadSet   2024 Jul 4, 9:39am  

Patrick says

it could be solved in about ten minutes by letting people with unaffordable student loans discharge them in bankruptcy

Didn't Obama have the government take over all student loans? That would mean that taxpayers would be on the hook for bankruptcies same as if the loans were forgiven.
47   zzyzzx   2024 Jul 5, 4:26am  

Patrick says

Democrat President Joe Biden’s administration has been forced to stop all student debt forgiveness programs after multiple court orders.


ERECTION INTENSIFYING!!!
48   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2024 Jul 5, 7:20am  

This is all sheer stupidity.

13th grade in California costs a couple grand a year all in. State university costs about $10k a year all in.

Graduate in four years and you are looking at a loan amount that is less than a loan on an average new car.

The reason loans balloon to enormous amounts is people go to private schools and use the loans to live on. Stupid people don’t deserve degrees at tax payer expense.

For reference myself and many co workers have state university degrees and do just fine career and money wise. I just met a “rising star” at my workplace who attended my Alma Mater at the same time I did. She’s got the type A personality and knowledge and experience. She’s already in the public eye in her new job and probably will be moreso by the time I retire in a few years.

There is truly no reason to take out huge loans to attend a very expensive college unless you are looking at being a doctor or similar career path.
49   RC2006   2024 Jul 5, 7:30am  

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

The reason loans balloon to enormous amounts is people go to private schools and use the loans to live on. Stupid people don’t deserve degrees at tax payer expense.


Not only that many party and live beyond their means with the loans. I knew plenty of people that traveled, had a nice apartment, car, ate out all the time and then cry about having 100+k loan.
50   RWSGFY   2024 Jul 5, 8:26am  

RC2006 says

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says


The reason loans balloon to enormous amounts is people go to private schools and use the loans to live on. Stupid people don’t deserve degrees at tax payer expense.


Not only that many party and live beyond their means with the loans. I knew plenty of people that traveled, had a nice apartment, car, ate out all the time and then cry about having 100+k loan.


Wait, you can pay for a CAR using student loan? I thought the rules were the same as for ESAs and you can't use the latter to buy a car, afaik.
51   HeadSet   2024 Jul 5, 9:36am  

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

State university costs about $10k a year all in.

That is a good deal, I suppose California has low college cots. Putting my daughter through 4 year college cost me $120k.
52   zzyzzx   2024 Jul 5, 9:40am  

RWSGFY says

Wait, you can pay for a CAR using student loan?


People took vacations with student loans.
53   RWSGFY   2024 Jul 5, 10:00am  

HeadSet says

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says


State university costs about $10k a year all in.

That is a good deal, I suppose California has low college cots. Putting my daughter through 4 year college cost me $120k.


At UCs you're looking at $40K-ish per year, iirc. $10K probably relates to CSU system.
54   GreaterNYCDude   2024 Jul 5, 1:26pm  

I took out loans. Federally backed loans in my name, plus state backed loans cosigned by my parents. At the time I saw it as an investment. Get an engineering degree, land a job, pay them back.

Due to circumstances, I took out an additional loan to cover grad school; my employer did reimburse 50% but I needed the money up front and didn't have it at the time.

In 2006 (?) I consolidated the remaining balance into a federally backed loan at 2%. (Thank you Ben Bernanke)

Fast forward 25 years. I still have a balance on the consolidation loan, but the monthly amount is so small, and the interat rate so low, it doesn't make sense to pay it off early.

I strongly disagree with Bidens approach to this "crisis".
55   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2024 Jul 5, 1:58pm  

HeadSet says

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says


State university costs about $10k a year all in.

That is a good deal, I suppose California has low college cots. Putting my daughter through 4 year college cost me $120k.


University of California runs $25k a year all in(UCLA, UC San Diego, Berkley, etc)
56   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2024 Jul 5, 9:54pm  

I’m not wrong.

And lol about cal state schools frontloading housing, transportation, etc costs. Again, how loan costs balloon. It’s fucking gross.

As long as you can live at home or with relatives, you can work ANY job that’s at least 30 hours a week, pay as you go to 13th grade for two years and then take two years of loans at a cal state school.

Or be a chump, send your kid to live on campus at a private school that won’t help them in most careers and will saddle them or you with $300-400k in debt




57   Blue   2024 Jul 6, 12:10am  

https://blog.prepscholar.com/uc-vs-csu-whats-the-difference
There is more state tuition subsidy for CSU compare to UC system! but housing is not much different even for nonresidents.

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/tuition-financial-aid/tuition-cost-of-attendance/
Estimated average costs for California residents, 2024–25
Direct costs On campus Off campus
TOTAL COST (direct and indirect) $42,236 $40,036

Estimated average costs for nonresidents, 2024–25
Direct costs On campus Off campus
TOTAL COST (direct and indirect) $76,436 $74,236

"Over 70% of our California undergrads get an average of $18,000 in grants and scholarships to help with costs, including UC tuition, food and housing, transportation, books and supplies."

"Financial aid is for everyone (including you).
More than 54% of UC's California undergrads pay no tuition
That's because UC has one of the strongest financial aid programs in the country. And we want you to get every penny of help you deserve."

Well, since the emphasis is on family income when it comes to aid, grants and/or scholarships but not much on average expenses, people who are in high cost of living areas will be at the odds of paying high cost of college costs relatively!
59   Onvacation   2024 Jul 6, 10:53am  

My niece is starting at Cardozo Law School in Manhattan this fall. The total cost will be 106k per year for tuition, fees, and housing. She hopes to come out as a top shelf lawyer in a couple years.

Before the last four years at UCLA her goal was to be, "... ideally a marine biologist, but maybe a veterinarian."

I still love her even though she wants to be a lawyer.
60   Ceffer   2024 Jul 6, 11:04am  

Won't even mention what I paid for education. I get angry responses. One younger person looked like they wanted to hit me.
61   Onvacation   2024 Jul 6, 11:41am  

Napa Valley Junior College cost $5 per unit plus a $25 registration fee back in the 1980's.

Back then you could get remedial help, complete your prerequisites to continue as a junior at a four year school, or learn and get certified in a trade.

Junior College is gone. California Community Colleges now charges about $50 (for residents and illegal aliens. Out of state students pay $350) per unit. Still a bargain.
62   AD   2024 Jul 6, 11:56am  

Onvacation says

Junior College is gone. California Community Colleges now charges about $50 (for residents and illegal aliens. Out of state students pay $350) per unit. Still a bargain.


Yeah, get the community colleges to more emphasize vocational training like licensed practical nurse (LPN), construction management, HVAC, electrician, auto repair, etc.

I read that Biden has forgiven about $167 billion in student debt since he took office. That's almost the same amount of money that has been provided to Ukraine since the Russian invasion.

.
63   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 6, 12:11pm  

Sadly, many community colleges are wrapping up what used to be vocational certificates into "Associate Degrees" to justify the outlay for academic coursework and gin up the "College Educated" numbers. Things like Aircraft Maintenance or LPNs are being bundled into "Aircraft Maintenence Engineering AS" or "LPN Healthcare AS" so they can $$$ from needless Art or Feminist Studies 101 course requirements and get students for 2 years instead of 1 or less.
64   AD   2024 Jul 6, 1:02pm  

AmericanKulak says

Sadly, many community colleges are wrapping up what used to be vocational certificates into "Associate Degrees"


Good point as they have to take 3 or 4 classes that do not directly relate to their studies. I can see them having to take liberal arts classes in order to keep the liberal arts departments from shutting down.

.
65   Onvacation   2024 Jul 6, 3:27pm  

AD says

I can see them having to take liberal arts classes in order to keep the liberal arts departments from shutting down.

ALL educated people need to understand the classics!

But an LVN destined to wipe the butts of demented seniors doesn't need to read Aristotle.
66   Onvacation   2024 Jul 6, 3:35pm  

General education requirements to get an AS degree from Napa Valley College:

AREA A: NATURAL SCIENCE 1 class
AREA B: SOCIAL AND BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE 1 class
AREA C: HUMANITIES 1 class
AREA D: LANGUAGE AND RATIONALITY 3 classes
AREA E: ETHNIC STUDIES 1 class
ADDITIONAL GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS 1 class

A total of 8 classes above and beyond the classes you need for your vocation. Expand the ETHNIC STUDIES

AREA E: ETHNIC STUDIES
Select one course, minimum 3 units. Effective Fall 2023, all courses that satisfy the Ethnic Studies graduation requirement also satisfy the Cultural Competency requirement and may double count for Area C.

Course List
CODE TITLE UNITS
ETHS-100 Ethnic Studies 1 3
ETHS-101 Ethnic Studies 2 3
ETHS-111 Native American Studies 3
ETHS-112 African American Studies 3
ETHS-113 Chicanx Studies Chicanx Studies 3
ETHS-114 Women's Ethnic Heritage in the United States 3
ETHS-115 Critical Mixed Race Studies 3
ETHS-160 Critical Asian Pacific Islander American Studies: Filipina/X/O Experience in the United States 3
ETHS-161 Asian Pacific Islander American Studies 3
http://catalog.napavalley.edu/getting-your-degree/general-education/
67   Onvacation   2024 Jul 6, 3:40pm  

My cousin became a certified welder in 9 months at Napa Valley College back in the '80s. Now it is an intense 2 year program.
http://catalog.napavalley.edu/areas-of-study/welding-technology/welding-technology-certificate-of-achievement/

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