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Student loan forgiveness


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2021 Feb 5, 3:30pm   4,682 views  43 comments

by Zak   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

If college education actually cost $100k (for example) to provide, then why is it unrealistic that the student pays it off over an amortized period of time at a low interest rate. Isn't that exactly what a tax plan is????? Except with the tax plan, you pay for it whether you use it or not, you never get to stop paying, and you don't get any choice over what school the money goes to. Doesn't that seem worse in every possible way? It's not like lenders are making bank on gouging student loan interest rates, its like 1-2% or something.

If the argument is that 100k is a ridiculous amount for school to cost, then how is paying for it with taxes or debt forgiveness going to fix that in any way ever? At least with a direct responsibility for a high tuition, people will be choosing to get cheaper and equal or nearly equal alternatives via price substitution...

Here is my take on the solution to this problem:

1) Reinstate the ability to declare bankruptcy to discharge student loan debt BUT make there be a 10 year discharge period, with a 10% income repayment cap. This allows people to get out of their debt in the event of life events, but doesn't let them off the hook entirely. It also returns responsibility to the lenders to lend less money if the student doesn't have a good prospect of finding a job with the degree they intend to pursue (or have other means of paying).

2) If the student applies for bankruptcy after completing a degree, the school becomes liable for 30% of the debt remaining after the 10 year payoff period is over for the student. This gives schools some incentive to not steer students into majors that won't let them pay the bills.

What do you guys think?

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1   Patrick   2021 Feb 5, 6:09pm  

Zak says
Except with the tax plan, you pay for it whether you use it or not, you never get to stop paying, and you don't get any choice over what school the money goes to. Doesn't that seem worse in every possible way?


Worse for whom is the question.

Maybe the goal is to put all taxpayers on the hook forever as a reward to overpriced universities for their successful indoctrination of students.

Zak says
It's not like lenders are making bank on gouging student loan interest rates, its like 1-2% or something.


I think the average was 4.75% recently. So maybe it's also a reward to banks.

Actually, I know that all subsidized debt is a reward to banks. Our debt is their wealth. Student loan debt rises in a creepily predictable way:

2   PeopleUnited   2021 Feb 5, 6:56pm  

Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.
3   HeadSet   2021 Feb 5, 6:58pm  

It also returns responsibility to the lenders to lend less money if the student doesn't have a good prospect of finding a job with the degree they intend to pursue (or have other means of paying).

Yes, this will cause the banks to be more responsible with the lending. However, that responsible lending will be disproportionately for White and Asian students. Now comes the "disproportional effect" lawsuits. No subsidized or guaranteed student loans at all is the best approach.
4   Patrick   2021 Feb 5, 9:56pm  

PeopleUnited says
Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.


Problem is, you're asking the mafia to give up loan sharking income.

Good luck.
5   HeadSet   2021 Feb 6, 8:03am  

Problem is, you're asking the mafia to give up loan sharking income.

Mafia does not forgive loans. Obama's policy of having the government take over the college loan program was a way of putting future votes in the bank. That is, when enough people are trapped in big loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, you can now buy votes by offering various levels of loan forgiveness. This is why Biden is talking $10,000 and not the whole amount. Must leave people with enough debt to play the forgiveness game when votes ae needed in the future.

The purpose of the partial forgiveness now is the 2022 mid-terms. Must buy enough votes to keep the mid-term races within the margin of a steal. Also the attitude "I do not care if Biden stole the election, at least I get some loan forgiveness."
6   Patrick   2021 Feb 6, 9:49am  

@PeopleUnited I totally agree with you though that college tuition prices would fall if loans were not being pushed on students.

HeadSet says
Mafia does not forgive loans.


True! The banking sharks will get their money, they will just get it from taxpayers instead of from students.
7   Bd6r   2021 Feb 6, 9:58am  

PeopleUnited says
Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.

Ca. 6-8K per year, inflation adjusted, is what State schools used to cost in 2000.
8   Robert Sproul   2021 Feb 6, 10:15am  

With higher education, just like “health” care costs, we don’t ever discuss controlling administrative bloat or question the value of the procedure or the degree, we just talk about who is going to pay the absurdly inflated bill.
And then carry on incentivizing the very things that created the predicament.
I hope to live long enough to see both of these rackets in smoking ruin.
9   Onvacation   2021 Feb 6, 10:34am  

Robert Sproul says
I hope to live long enough to see both of these rackets in smoking ruin.

Me too.

But I don't want to have to breathe the smoke.
10   Robert Sproul   2021 Feb 6, 1:57pm  

Onvacation says
But I don't want to have to breathe the smoke.

Ha.
Speaking of smoke, I am not going to stay in Cali for another smoke season like last year.
Particulates so minute they go directly into your bloodstream, VOC’s from the burning buildings, and now this: https://archive.fo/rDJ7I
I am plotting my escape right now.
11   HeadSet   2021 Feb 6, 2:13pm  

Particulates so minute they go directly into your bloodstream,

Just wear your Covid mask.
12   🎂 Rin   2021 Feb 6, 3:00pm  

Rb6d says
PeopleUnited says
Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.

Ca. 6-8K per year, inflation adjusted, is what State schools used to cost in 2000.


Here's a very exact answer ...

https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science-computer-science-london

The online Goldsmith/London University comp science bachelors is 10.6K-15.9K Pound Sterling which is 3.6K to 5.4K per year which even in US dollar amounts are $5K to $7.4K per year and is affordable for many ppl, since they can work while doing the program.

Sure, it's not as prestigious as let's say the on-campus University College (UCL) but c'mon, who can complain about attending a place like London for such a discount?
13   Bd6r   2021 Feb 6, 3:22pm  

Rin says
Here's a very exact answer ...

https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science-computer-science-london

The online Goldsmith/London University comp science bachelors is 10.6K-15.9K Pound Sterling which is 3.6K to 5.4K per year which even in US dollar amounts are $5K to $7.4K per year and is affordable for many ppl, since they can work while doing the program.

Sure, it's not as prestigious as let's say the on-campus University College (UCL) but c'mon, who can complain about attending a place like London for such a discount?

If you hire someone who did this online stuff, how do you know it is him who passed the exams?

Also, see reviews about coursera, which administers these comp science bachelors:
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/coursera.org
as they say, from the mouth of the proverbial someone
14   🎂 Rin   2021 Feb 6, 4:05pm  

Rb6d says
how do you know it is him who passed the exams?


Before the exam centers, like Prometric, the London final exams were held at British Consulates around the world where yes, you needed something like a passport to prove who you were.

Then Prometric took over that role and while their ID reqs weren't as exacting as a passport (where a forgery is a federal offense), it's still a govt issued ID like a Driver's License and hopefully, not too many ppl snuck through on a fake one.

As for Covid, that changes everything as proctoring centers need to do social distancing so I'd imagine w/ online exams becoming the norm, then there are probably lots of friends and family members, cheating on behalf of the student using a 2nd computer for assistance.
15   Booger   2021 Feb 6, 4:21pm  

Fuck college loans.
16   Patrick   2021 Feb 6, 8:36pm  

Robert Sproul says
Onvacation says
But I don't want to have to breathe the smoke.

Ha.
Speaking of smoke, I am not going to stay in Cali for another smoke season like last year.
Particulates so minute they go directly into your bloodstream, VOC’s from the burning buildings, and now this: https://archive.fo/rDJ7I
I am plotting my escape right now.


Yes, I think there's going to be a huge surge in cancer cases in California.

But on the bright side, I think a lot of those fires, maybe most, were deliberately set to cause a general feeling of unease to swing the election. Or maybe to get people to think that global warming is worse than it is. If that's true, there will be far fewer fires this year.
17   Misc   2021 Feb 7, 10:37am  

The banks got wind that the government might reverse itself on bankruptcy forgiveness and forgiveness for fraud from the Universities. They have largely opted out of the business and the only one major bank (Wells Fargo) will make private student loans at all. They only loan to those who will repay and require stringent requirements on cosigners.
18   BayArea   2021 Feb 7, 2:15pm  

My wife and I paid off a 6-fig medical school loan three years ago.

Should I expect a refund?
If not, why do you pick winners and losers Joe?
19   RC2006   2021 Feb 7, 2:56pm  

Dems are the epitome of unintended consequences.
20   KgK one   2021 Feb 7, 3:28pm  

Hypothetically speaking if plan is bankrupt USA, Why not clear out all debt beforehand for everyone who votes for them.
21   zzyzzx   2021 Apr 26, 9:56am  

Dave Ramsey to be shortly banned...
23   HeadSet   2023 Mar 7, 11:51am  

BayArea says

My wife and I paid off a 6-fig medical school loan three years ago.

Should I expect a refund?
If not, why do you pick winners and losers Joe?

Joe was asked that by one who also paid off his student loans. Joe's answer was "Life's not fair."
24   Patrick   2023 Mar 7, 11:57am  

Lol, so Bidet attempts to unfairly reward one group at the expense of another for his own personal political gain and then blames that on "life".
25   Misc   2023 Mar 7, 12:52pm  

The PPP program was directed to reward one group over another. The students were not part of that group.

Where's the fairness doctrine?
26   Eric Holder   2023 Mar 7, 12:57pm  

Misc says

The PPP program was directed to reward one group over another. The students were not part of that group.

Where's the fairness doctrine?


Yep. And it was directed to the segment of the economy most likely to cheat on taxes.
27   theoakman   2023 Mar 7, 1:11pm  

BayArea says


My wife and I paid off a 6-fig medical school loan three years ago.

Should I expect a refund?
If not, why do you pick winners and losers Joe?


I opted to not go to med school because I didn't want the loans. To hell if I'm going to be forced to pay for those that did.
28   clambo   2023 Mar 7, 2:40pm  

There should be no student loan forgiveness by taxpayers.

If a bank decides to forgive a loan, the bank loses some profit that quarter.

If the US Government forgives a loan, the taxpayers pay for it.

Biden is worse than brain dead.
29   HeadSet   2023 Mar 7, 4:33pm  

clambo says

Biden is worse than brain dead.

True, but the student loan forgiveness is an act by Biden's handlers. It is not stupidity, is a calculation to buy votes.
30   clambo   2023 Mar 7, 5:24pm  

I concur with Headset.
31   SunnyvaleCA   2023 Mar 7, 6:06pm  

There are several loan forgiveness systems already in place. The gist of them are that you pay 10% of your income over baseline living wage every year, but if you still have loans after 20 or 25 years, the loans are cancelled. So you basically pay 10% of your income exceeding 2x the poverty level for 20 or 25 years. Look at it as yet another tax... social security is 7.5% (or 15%) on every single dollar you earn; living in California often runs 5% to 10% income tax and then you pay an additive 9% sales tax!

The major problem with the government's student loan program is that it allows colleges to massively jack up prices and also allows completely unqualified "students" to attend.

I don't think the government's program is so bad. The problem is the effect it has with the school tuition policies. If the government demanded a school charge each student the same rate, some schools would inevitably have to set prices much lower generally and there would be some schools really trying to keep costs low.
32   Misc   2023 Mar 7, 6:36pm  

What are the completion rates for US community colleges?
Completion rates are low at community colleges. Only 13 percent of community college freshmen receive an associate degree after two years, and 31 percent do so within three years. These very low rates reflect the diversity of student goals.

What percentage of college students fail to graduate?
In four-year institutions, 56% of students tend to drop out after six years (What to Become, 2021). Students aged between 24-29 are most likely to drop out of four-year colleges, as 52.5% of them have already left without a degree (What to Become, 2021).Sep 26, 2022

Colleges in the US are not designed for students to succeed especially community colleges where students trying to be frugal try their hand. Educators know these stats, but continue to push the Community College scam on unsuspecting youth. 12.4 million suckers are enrolled in Community colleges. Since no politician has the Balls to just shut down this massive fraud, forgiving $10k of the debt resulting from this policy error seems humane..
33   HeadSet   2023 Mar 7, 7:20pm  

SunnyvaleCA says

The major problem with the government's student loan program is that it allows colleges to massively jack up prices and also allows completely unqualified "students" to attend.

This. If one had to work their way through college or be sponsored by an employer, the worthless majors would disappear and the costs would come down.
34   Patrick   2023 Mar 9, 11:14am  

theoakman says

BayArea says



My wife and I paid off a 6-fig medical school loan three years ago.

Should I expect a refund?
If not, why do you pick winners and losers Joe?


I opted to not go to med school because I didn't want the loans. To hell if I'm going to be forced to pay for those that did.


Same for me. I got in to medical school, but just couldn't bear to sign for the loans. Turns out that was the right choice.
36   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 13, 2:34pm  

The smart young guy with the curly hair makes the right choice to learn to weld.

https://apnews.com/article/skipping-college-student-loans-trade-jobs-efc1f6d6067ab770f6e512b3f7719cc0

The butchy lesbian and her obese daughter want the college, of course.
37   Eric Holder   2023 Mar 13, 2:38pm  

AmericanKulak says


The smart young guy with the curly hair makes the right choice to learn to weld.


How much does a Welder I make in the United States? The average Welder I salary in the United States is $44,598 as of February 27, 2023, but the range typically falls between $39,601 and $51,263. Salary ranges can vary widely depending on many important factors, including education, certifications, additional skills, the number of years you have spent in your profession.


https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/welder-i-salary

Should've learned plumbing instead.
38   richwicks   2023 Mar 13, 2:44pm  

HeadSet says

True, but the student loan forgiveness is an act by Biden's handlers. It is not stupidity, is a calculation to buy votes.


It's just empty promises. There can't be student loan forgiveness, it's considered an asset by the US government, and it's over a trillion dollars.

Remember when Biden was promising a $2,000 check for covid relief in 2020?

They are just lying and it's not to get votes, it's to give the ILLUSION that people elected these people. "Oh stupid people believed the nonsense of the candidate, THAT'S why he was elected" - well, did they elect him?
39   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 13, 2:47pm  

Eric Holder says


Should've learned plumbing instead.

There's a kid in the story making $24/hr at 19 working on a new plant's plumbing infrastructure.

The minority daughter boo-hoo story, I'm glad the writers were honest enough to quote the school authorities who noted the "At risk" girl never attended the free remedial classes or programs offered. Besides, she don't need a culinary degree to operate a restaurant, esp. since her father runs a freakin' restuarant and can teach her everything she needs to know about running a kitchen and a restaurant.
40   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 13, 2:51pm  

LPN's average $50k. $40k is the floor for rookies. You can make a lot more as a travelling nurse. 1-1.5 years in most states and most CCs have it cheap.

You can work as much as you want, in fact they'll do anything to get you to work more hours, massive shortage nationwide that's only getting worse.

No asswiping, too expensive to pay $28-30/hr for that ($40 in MA or CA). They use CNAs these days for that. All you do is smack people with 21 gauge needles.

Most majors don't touch $50k for years after graduating and they have $100k in debt these days, and that's in-state.

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