patrick.net

If college education actually cost $100k (for example) to provide, then why is it unrealistic that the student pays it off over an amortized period of time at a low interest rate. Isn't that exactly what a tax plan is????? Except with the tax plan, you pay for it whether you use it or not, you never get to stop paying, and you don't get any choice over what school the money goes to. Doesn't that seem worse in every possible way? It's not like lenders are making bank on gouging student loan interest rates, its like 1-2% or something.

If the argument is that 100k is a ridiculous amount for school to cost, then how is paying for it with taxes or debt forgiveness going to fix that in any way ever? At least with a direct responsibility for a high tuition, people will be choosing to get cheaper and equal or nearly equal alternatives via price substitution...

Here is my take on the solution to this problem:

1) Reinstate the ability to declare bankruptcy to discharge student loan debt BUT make there be a 10 year discharge period, with a 10% income repayment cap. This allows people to get out of their debt in the event of life events, but doesn't let them off the hook entirely. It also returns responsibility to the lenders to lend less money if the student doesn't have a good prospect of finding a job with the degree they intend to pursue (or have other means of paying).

2) If the student applies for bankruptcy after completing a degree, the school becomes liable for 30% of the debt remaining after the 10 year payoff period is over for the student. This gives schools some incentive to not steer students into majors that won't let them pay the bills.

What do you guys think?

Zak says

Except with the tax plan, you pay for it whether you use it or not, you never get to stop paying, and you don't get any choice over what school the money goes to. Doesn't that seem worse in every possible way?

Worse for whom is the question.

Maybe the goal is to put all taxpayers on the hook forever as a reward to overpriced universities for their successful indoctrination of students.

Zak says

It's not like lenders are making bank on gouging student loan interest rates, its like 1-2% or something.

I think the average was 4.75% recently. So maybe it's also a reward to banks.

Actually, I know that all subsidized debt is a reward to banks. Our debt is their wealth. Student loan debt rises in a creepily predictable way:

Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.

It also returns responsibility to the lenders to lend less money if the student doesn't have a good prospect of finding a job with the degree they intend to pursue (or have other means of paying).

Yes, this will cause the banks to be more responsible with the lending. However, that responsible lending will be disproportionately for White and Asian students. Now comes the "disproportional effect" lawsuits. No subsidized or guaranteed student loans at all is the best approach.

PeopleUnited says

Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.

Problem is, you're asking the mafia to give up loan sharking income.

Good luck.

Problem is, you're asking the mafia to give up loan sharking income.

Mafia does not forgive loans. Obama's policy of having the government take over the college loan program was a way of putting future votes in the bank. That is, when enough people are trapped in big loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, you can now buy votes by offering various levels of loan forgiveness. This is why Biden is talking $10,000 and not the whole amount. Must leave people with enough debt to play the forgiveness game when votes ae needed in the future.

The purpose of the partial forgiveness now is the 2022 mid-terms. Must buy enough votes to keep the mid-term races within the margin of a steal. Also the attitude "I do not care if Biden stole the election, at least I get some loan forgiveness."

@PeopleUnited I totally agree with you though that college tuition prices would fall if loans were not being pushed on students.

HeadSet says

Mafia does not forgive loans.

True! The banking sharks will get their money, they will just get it from taxpayers instead of from students.

PeopleUnited says

Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.

Ca. 6-8K per year, inflation adjusted, is what State schools used to cost in 2000.

With higher education, just like “health” care costs, we don’t ever discuss controlling administrative bloat or question the value of the procedure or the degree, we just talk about who is going to pay the absurdly inflated bill.
And then carry on incentivizing the very things that created the predicament.
I hope to live long enough to see both of these rackets in smoking ruin.

Robert Sproul says

I hope to live long enough to see both of these rackets in smoking ruin.

Me too.

But I don't want to have to breathe the smoke.

Onvacation says

But I don't want to have to breathe the smoke.

Ha.
Speaking of smoke, I am not going to stay in Cali for another smoke season like last year.
Particulates so minute they go directly into your bloodstream, VOC’s from the burning buildings, and now this: https://archive.fo/rDJ7I
I am plotting my escape right now.

Particulates so minute they go directly into your bloodstream,

Just wear your Covid mask.

Rb6d says

PeopleUnited says

Don’t subsidize student loans. Watch college tuition prices fall to where the unsubsidized market can bear. Probably something around 5-10 grand per year.

Ca. 6-8K per year, inflation adjusted, is what State schools used to cost in 2000.

Here's a very exact answer ...

https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science-computer-science-london

The online Goldsmith/London University comp science bachelors is 10.6K-15.9K Pound Sterling which is 3.6K to 5.4K per year which even in US dollar amounts are $5K to $7.4K per year and is affordable for many ppl, since they can work while doing the program.

Sure, it's not as prestigious as let's say the on-campus University College (UCL) but c'mon, who can complain about attending a place like London for such a discount?

Rin says

Here's a very exact answer ...

https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science-computer-science-london

The online Goldsmith/London University comp science bachelors is 10.6K-15.9K Pound Sterling which is 3.6K to 5.4K per year which even in US dollar amounts are $5K to $7.4K per year and is affordable for many ppl, since they can work while doing the program.

Sure, it's not as prestigious as let's say the on-campus University College (UCL) but c'mon, who can complain about attending a place like London for such a discount?

If you hire someone who did this online stuff, how do you know it is him who passed the exams?

Also, see reviews about coursera, which administers these comp science bachelors:
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/coursera.org
as they say, from the mouth of the proverbial someone

Rb6d says

how do you know it is him who passed the exams?

Before the exam centers, like Prometric, the London final exams were held at British Consulates around the world where yes, you needed something like a passport to prove who you were.

Then Prometric took over that role and while their ID reqs weren't as exacting as a passport (where a forgery is a federal offense), it's still a govt issued ID like a Driver's License and hopefully, not too many ppl snuck through on a fake one.

As for Covid, that changes everything as proctoring centers need to do social distancing so I'd imagine w/ online exams becoming the norm, then there are probably lots of friends and family members, cheating on behalf of the student using a 2nd computer for assistance.

Fuck college loans.

Robert Sproul says

Onvacation says

But I don't want to have to breathe the smoke.

Ha.
Speaking of smoke, I am not going to stay in Cali for another smoke season like last year.
Particulates so minute they go directly into your bloodstream, VOC’s from the burning buildings, and now this: https://archive.fo/rDJ7I
I am plotting my escape right now.

Yes, I think there's going to be a huge surge in cancer cases in California.

But on the bright side, I think a lot of those fires, maybe most, were deliberately set to cause a general feeling of unease to swing the election. Or maybe to get people to think that global warming is worse than it is. If that's true, there will be far fewer fires this year.

The banks got wind that the government might reverse itself on bankruptcy forgiveness and forgiveness for fraud from the Universities. They have largely opted out of the business and the only one major bank (Wells Fargo) will make private student loans at all. They only loan to those who will repay and require stringent requirements on cosigners.

My wife and I paid off a 6-fig medical school loan three years ago.

Should I expect a refund?
If not, why do you pick winners and losers Joe?

Dems are the epitome of unintended consequences.

Hypothetically speaking if plan is bankrupt USA, Why not clear out all debt beforehand for everyone who votes for them.

Dave Ramsey to be shortly banned...