patrick.net

GreaterNYCDude says

I'm making a concerted effort to back off the sauce.

Good idea. I found that when I stopped drinking, I did not miss it much. The longer I abstained, the less I missed it and now don't even miss it a bit.

You can do this.

GreaterNYCDude says

For wahts it's worth, I did a Sober January or whatever the trend is earlier this year. Felt better at the end, but didn't loose any weight. Replaced the alcohol with sugar, trading once vice for another.

Surprised you didn't lose any weight. I'm taller hence more weight to be lost, but I lost almost 20lbs the last time I stopped for 3 months doing nothing extra as far as exercise and abstaining. I do drink light beer that basically is almost water, so unless it's a crazy weekend night I'm rarely even buzzed.

Craft beers are where you get into trouble if you don't look at the labeling. 3 craft beers of a certain brand could be like having 8-9 beers worth of Bud Light. So I stay away from that. I try to do low alcohol content and low calorie, for a beer at least. Busch Light. Lol, waiting to get shit on for that.

Not a wine fan and avoid hard stuff like the plague. Beside the empty calories, I personally feel like it's the best route if you want a drink. You usually can burn the calories off with just 3 mile or so walk if you're not into exercise. Wine is safer just because it's somewhat expensive for even average stuff. Hard liquor is relatively cheap even for above average stuff and the quantities you can get it in. If you can drink below average vodka it's an even worse the rabbit hole you can go down as happened with my BIL.

I personally think we need to lower the drinking age. With IL being legal for pot, I've noticed no difference. The potheads in the past still are. Some people I wouldn't expect might pop an edible now, but they're not out of line. You take away the restrictions for something like alcohol, kids will be less tempted to have it. I'll likely have a beer with my kids when they're 16-17. It's not all it's hyped up to be, but when you get into a college atmosphere all bets are off when partying on the weekend IS what you do because you haven't experienced it.

GreaterNYCDude says

For wahts it's worth, I did a Sober January or whatever the trend is earlier this year. Felt better at the end, but didn't loose any weight

Thank you for sharing.

I stopped when I realized that if I have alcohol in my system, I cannot respond to a crisis or emergency (car-dependent living). This was important when I had school-agers at home. You never know when you'll need to do an emergency errand for stitches or whatever. Then, slammed by the reminder when an alcoholic I know happened to be sober (rare) the night he and his spouse had seconds to flee the Tubbs Fire in Wine Country (Santa Rosa). They were safely able to evacuate in the fleeting seconds and bring their dogs.

As you learned from your January experiment, we can carry on without and feel pretty good about it. And have all our wits in intellect faculties ready for whatever may come.

I don’t usually drink and I love beer. A 12 pack can last me six months at times. I usually have a beer with dinner when I go out.

My consumption goes way up when we go to Las Vegas(4-8 times a year) and on vacation.

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

My consumption goes way up when we go to Las Vegas(4-8 times a year) and on vacation.

Vacation is my time to shine. lol. Kid free trips are like college again to some extent. With kids not so much, but I will have more on vacation for sure as 8 out of 10 times we won't rent a car and it's all PT/cabs/uber.

I'm a happy drinker though when I drink more on trips. No passing out, yelling at people, fighting etc. I actually become more extroverted in a good way. I'm the guy that breaks up the drunk fights.

Iced tea year round.

Very little. While I enjoy it, I find that it ruins the next day for me. Even if I don't drink much (3-4 beers), I'm groggy the next day and lack drive. Probably due to my sleep being affected. I may sleep 7 hours, but it's an ineffective sleep that doesn't refresh me.

Beer is also carb-heavy and I find that I quickly gain weight if I drink it regularly. I prefer rum or whiskey, neat or on the rocks.

NDrLoR says

Iced tea year round.

Twisted Tea ;)

Never could do any kind of tea. The flavor just doesn't work for me. I can't stand the flavor, but people don't like beer or wine either so no judgement on my part. I'm a water guy or sparkling flavored water for non-alcoholic beverages. I like to keep it simple besides beer and even then my beer of choice is flavored water anyway.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Good idea. I found that when I stopped drinking, I did not miss it much. The longer I abstained, the less I missed it and now don't even miss it a bit.

You can do this.

I wish I could like this ten times.
Same thing with me. The longer I’m off it the less I miss it.

Shaman says

B.A.C.A.H. says

Good idea. I found that when I stopped drinking, I did not miss it much. The longer I abstained, the less I missed it and now don't even miss it a bit.

You can do this.

I wish I could like this ten times.
Same thing with me. The longer I’m off it the less I miss it.

Question for both of you though. Do you easily get hung over or have brain fog the next day? I could see that being miserable. Everyone's body handles alcohol differently.

Besides a few times on vacation, maybe 3, I haven't been hung over for a decade plus. I can have 3-6 drinks and my next day is just fine. Beating the horse dead at this point, but I think the hard stuff is where people get into trouble. If you're out and about, some of those mixed drinks you have no idea how much they're putting in.

Kudos to you guys though as alcohol has little to no benefit to the body. I'm just like Cavanaugh though. I like beer and I'm okay with any future consequences. It's warming up here now and I'm going to shed my winter beer weight.

Karloff says

Probably due to my sleep being affected. I may sleep 7 hours, but it's an ineffective sleep that doesn't refresh me.

Right, this is probably the main reason I cut back. If I have even two drinks with dinner instead of one, my sleep is noticeably worse that night. And red wine, sadly, makes my sleep even worse than beer. I love red wine, so my compromise is to have a bit of it at lunch, not enough that I actually feel anything much but I still get to enjoy the taste.

It also turns out for me that beer coming in units of a can or a bottle is a good way to count and limit. One bottle is one bottle, and I just don't open the second one unless it's Friday night or I'm out with friends. Wine is different in that it's tempting to just tilt a little more when you pour, to cheat.

Wife literally has 1/3 of a hard cider at dinner each night, splitting the bottle across three nights. But then she's 115 lbs and I'm 200 lbs. Used to be 185 lbs before the damn lockdown bullshit. That was another motive to limit the drinking.

Last tip: for me, an edible provides a plenty nice buzz and completely eliminates the desire to drink for that night. I've taken all of April off from the edibles though, because that habit got up to every night and it probably not good for you in some way, though I'm not sure what way. In May I'm going to limit it to just Fri and Sat evenings and see how that goes. I like to impose rules on myself for a limited time and prove I can follow them. The key there is to make it for a limited time. No one has infinite willpower, so you have to use it wisely.

Karloff says

Very little. While I enjoy it, I find that it ruins the next day for me. Even if I don't drink much (3-4 beers), I'm groggy the next day and lack drive. Probably due to my sleep being affected. I may sleep 7 hours, but it's an ineffective sleep that doesn't refresh me.

Beer is also carb-heavy and I find that I quickly gain weight if I drink it regularly. I prefer rum or whiskey, neat or on the rocks.

I realized that if I start at 5pm, stop around 7-8pm and go to bed around 10pm it doesn't affect my sleep adversely. If I start late and keep drinking up until I go to bed - the sleep is shit. Same with eating, btw: early dinner is where the sweet spot is.

Eric Holder says

I realized that if I start at 5pm, stop around 7-8pm and go to bed around 10pm it doesn't affect my sleep adversely. If I start late and keep drinking up until I go to bed - the sleep is shit. Same with eating, btw: early dinner is where the sweet spot is.

As bad as this will sound day drinking is better. Worst case you take a 30m-1hr cat nap. Lunch drinks are best if your work allows instead of near bed.

I think I'm in the younger Patnet demo, so some 2-4am nights still occur. I'm not hungover and can function the next day 100%, but I'm ready for bed by 7pm the following day (well same day). As an insomniac that's a recipe for disaster. Being awake from 1-4am is not enjoyable as that is what happens. I'm used to it though at this point. Hence why so many of my comments are at random super early times.

Never expect an accurate self assessment from people who drink, especially those who drink too much. They will always scale back their report to ignore the negative consequences, and they wiil always try to keep it within the range of what they think is socially acceptable to the listener. Drinking and denial go hand in hand.

If you have started to worry about how much you drink, it is likely too late, and you probably should not drink at all. Also, you should not seek advice from those who still drink, you should ask those who have had a problem and have successfully stopped.

Getting off the alcohol culture treadmill and its industry derived fake mythologies (aka pusher dreams for the victims, you get the fake dreams and problems, they get the profits) is one of the best things you can do for mind, body and spirit.

I stopped drinking decades ago, and i can't imagine the tremendous waste of time and energy it involved intruding on my life again. I have a lot of relatives who have had serious problems, and i wouldn't trade a teetotaler state for theirs. More than two drinks a week, and it isn't fun any more, you are just fucking yourself up while being the pawn of a misery profit industry.

I think there is a lot of evidence that one or two drinks a day actually lowers your risk of death:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsctech/1536/1536vw08.htm




At 4 per day, men have probably negated the benefit. The problem is keeping the level down when it's tempting to have another.

I think the 'alcohol is good for you' lobby running 'research' and 'stats' have been advisors on the Covid crisis.

If you have a high profit addictive substance, they will generate any reassurance you want to keep you taking that first one, then the other, then the other.......

i think most people who drink believe they are drinking the exact, perfectly health enhancing amount, even if they are downing two bottles of wine at dinner.

My wife is hilarious, because she only drinks infrequently. Every couple of months, she will get one of those smaller bottle of wine and keep it in the refrigerator. She will pull it out for whatever reason, and drink it in front of TV. Reliably, she will get goofy and happy for a bit, then she will transition into being supercilious, obnoxious and combative, and then will pass out snoring. This is all within about 30 or 40 minutes. When she wakes up, she always says: "I have to stop doing this to myself" and is hung over the next day, all on about a glass and a half of wine. She makes me laugh until the next time a few months later.

Sure, I can believe that the effects are dependent on your sex and genetics to a large degree.

But I'm pretty certain that a small amount of alcohol daily reduces mortality from heart disease even if nothing else. There's just too much evidence from too many sources over too long a time period. The only question is the optimal number above zero.

You can find data that shows that esophageal cancer rates rise in exact proportion to the amount of alcohol consumed per day, and you can also find stats showing that there is a bigger decrease in deaths from heart disease with the first couple of drinks per day, and you can superimpose them to get approximately the overall observed effect.

This has been an issue for me lately, I believe due to severely limiting added sugar in my diet. I've always had a problem getting rid of headaches, all medication became ineffective over 10 years ago. And for some reason lately, even a single beer can cause a headache. Thinking about trying organic to see if that helps things, and I rarely have a problem with straight liquor(tequila, rum, etc). I love beer, can probably name more types than anyone on this sub, but I'm SO over the headaches. So lately it's been beer once a month, or whenever we go someplace that has one I like. Also, my wife has been staying away from alcohol due to temporary diet restrictions, otherwise I'd probably have wine at least once a month(her favorite).

You know what's never given me any problems? Cannabis. And that may be what I do from here on out.

LOL! Everybody gets in these circular discussions about alcohol People drink because it is mind altering and makes them feel good. If they feel good, even temporarily, they will easily believe it is also good for them and their health.

IT'S A WATER SOLUBLE METABOLIC POISON! I learned that at UC Berkeley as a a freshman when a couple of chemistry grad students threw a party and used the wrong alcohol. One died, and one was blind, and some were very ill. Ethyl alcohol is no different from what they drank, except that our bodies have metabolic pathways that will detoxify it.

NuttBoxer says

You know what's never given me any problems? Cannabis.

I tend to forget things more if I regularly have edibles. But aside from that, no problem.

Well, the alcohol debate could go on forever, but I'm pretty convinced that a small amount daily (1 or 2 drinks) is beneficial. I admit it's dangerous because people are so tempted to go beyond the small amount.

As far as Covid jabs go, too, because of the generalized inflammatory effects of alcohol (and especially the even more toxic intermediate aldehyde state) drinking might exacerbate the inflammatory conditioning of the vaccines.

Kinna makes me wonder if drinkers who are jabbees might be having extra trouble with their brews post jab.

I drink 2 beers or half of wine bottle on Saturday and Sunday evening when sitting out in yard with family and/or friends. This is more for social reasons than for getting a buzz. If I drink more, I have trouble sleeping and get headaches (may be related to what @Nuttboxer says - we also have cut out most carbs from diet). On hiking vacations, 2 beers or half wine nearly every evening after we get home from hiking - somehow after physical exertion (6-10 mile hiking in mountains) I have no issues whatsoever with that amount of consumption.

Ceffer says

IT'S A WATER SLUBLE METABOLIC POISON! I learned that at UC Berkeley asa a freshman when a couple of chemistry grad students threw a party and used the wrong alcohol. One died, and one was blind, and some were very ill. Ethyl alcohol is no different from what they drank, except that our bodies have metabolic pathways that will detoxify it.

Methanol, CH3OH, will make humans go blind or die. If I recall, one needs to drink less than 7 milliliters to go blind.

Ceffer says

IT'S A WATER SLUBLE METABOLIC POISON!

Alcohol is a waste product of fermentation microbes. That is, alcohol is yeast piss.

This is a pretty sober crowd.
When I drank I thought everybody drank, but it turns out 30% of the country are teetotal.
Up my way they seemingly all smoke weed though.

Alcohol on moderation is proven to enhance longevity, around 1-2 drinks per day for a woman and 1-4 for a man. Now if they are not spaced out it's closer to the lower number, if you space them out to the max it could even be higher. That being said, you don't do everything for health, sometimes it's fun to split a bottle of wine or two, esp. good wine or have a few beers in a German beergarden on a hot summer night. The problem is that the US population has a high number of addicts to all kinds of things, incl. alcohol. Especially womyn drink way too much. If you drink to a buzz you must be a "fun" drunk, nothing worse than those who change to combative/belligerent. I also agree with the comment that if you want to make it about a health challenge quite a few drinkers may lose to non drinkers but only because - as pointed out - they can't properly self-assess and often underestimate the amounts they drink.

I'm also surprised about the amount of abstinence here on patnet. While I slowed down I'll never give it up. Prost!

mell says

I'm also surprised about the amount of abstinence here on patnet.

There is a difference between abstinence and occasional imbibing. I gave the reason why I don't do it, but it's not abstinence. Just don't fit in with my other obligations. I can still indulge on rare occasions.

Rb6d says

Ceffer says

IT'S A WATER SLUBLE METABOLIC POISON! I learned that at UC Berkeley asa a freshman when a couple of chemistry grad students threw a party and used the wrong alcohol. One died, and one was blind, and some were very ill. Ethyl alcohol is no different from what they drank, except that our bodies have metabolic pathways that will detoxify it.

Methanol, CH3OH, will make humans go blind or die. If I recall, one needs to drink less than 7 milliliters to go blind.

Right, the difference to a human between ethanol and methanol is enormous. It doesn't make sense to compare them.

In fact, the treatment for methanol poisoning is to give a large quantity of ethanol immediately. Dilutes the methanol in some way.

Robert Sproul says

This is a pretty sober crowd.

Alcohol consumption per person is on an exponential curve. Maybe I can find the graph...



from https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Alcohol-consumption-distribution-in-grams-per-day-of-pure-alcohol-for-men-in-Germany_fig2_223971732

14 grams is one drink.

Most people don't drink much, but a few drink a lot. Not sure why it's so clearly exponential like that.

Patrick says

Most people don't drink much, but a few drink a lot. Not sure why it's so clearly exponential like that.

I think it's because it's a narcotic that can be addictive. Some people are behind the 8-ball with a genetic predisposition to the addiction.

Others can enjoy it occasionally without the addiction.

There is a statistical correlation between moderate alcohol consumption and longevity.
But, there may not be a causation, maybe red wine contains useful chemicals.
Ethanol pe se isn’t that good for you; it’s quickly converted to aldehyde in our body.
Aldehydes are toxic.
I’m not actually avoiding alcohol but just mentioning the aldehyde thing.
That’s why a hangover is bad.

In small amounts (less than one drink for a man) ethanol activates garbage collection in your brain and actually cleans it out.

It doesn't work if you drink more than that.

At least, so says a paper I skimmed a couple of years ago.

The same thing occurs during the Delta wave portion of your sleep cycle:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2222016-a-type-of-brainwave-may-help-clean-your-brain-while-you-sleep/

My bass player is an alcoholic, and 80% of the time he's more interested in how many beers are still in the fridge.
We polish off at least a 12 pack, and sometimes have to go another one. As soon as the beer runs out, he notices how late it is, and leaves before his van turns back into a pumpkin.

I can go several weeks without having another beer before I see him again.

mell says

I'm also surprised about the amount of abstinence here on patnet. While I slowed down I'll never give it up. Prost!

Old comment, but I agree. I'm a technical alcoholic and have been slowing down consumption for sure as I age. I know my urges and issues. One vice for another, but weed has helped immensely. Mine is anxiety, if I keep that in check I consume little beer (only beer). All of my grandparents were alcoholics. My FIL and MIL were/are too, but that's not blood, just social motivation to drink. BIL died from it at 40 with two kids. So I do take it seriously. I feel great though, and not justifying my consumption, it's above average for sure, but I'm almost done needing it for anxiety (beer) for self medication.

I don't understand the people that still have stigma towards pot. It really is an amazing drug. It is 100% harmless if eaten via edibles. I'm the most calm I've been in 2 decades. Smoked a ton in high school and college and then stopped. Started here and there over time, but still had that paranoid feeling that everyone knew I was high. With it being legal here I'll legit just tell people I took a gummy. At a kids evening baseball game I'd guess 50-60% of people are high, drinking booze from a Yeti or coked out. At least here in rural IL where we don't give a shit about what you do but everyone is productive.

As far as airports, it's 100% anxiety. Mine is more about comfort. I know the plane won't crash and if it did I'd known I lived a good life. I can't stand the size of the seats as a tall guy. Sometimes some bad FA's can make a flight shit or other passengers/kids. If we don't have to drive at the destination, whether a kids trip our just the wife and I, we pound it pretty hard. Puerto Rico is my favorite lounge we visit. Pound it and sleep on the flight for 3-1/2 hours. We'll bring mimosas and drink them on the bus from the parking garage to terminal to save some $$$. $16 per small glass at MDW. Airports are a racket. Force you into one space and you can charge what you want.

From my limited but quite extensive research I believe alcohol in moderation promotes longevity, esp. red wine. But also beer, whiskey (ellagic acid) and pretty much anything else. I also think the total amount is less important than the lamestream media and "experts" make you believe, but rather how much you drink at once. I think 2 glasses for men and one for women each night are likely beneficial, and if you space them out you can have 1-2 more over lunch, esp. if you use cheap "table wine" for lunch to dilute with water such as Mediterranean countries do, even for kids wine diluted with enough with water is 100 x healthier than sodas or excessive amounts of fruit juices. Definitely much healthier than not drinking and taking the covid jab ;)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elvaramirez/2021/06/01/study-no-amount-of-drinking-alcohol-is-safe-for-brain-health/?sh=6ec9a83e7eaa

Patrick says

I think there is a lot of evidence that one or two drinks a day actually lowers your risk of death:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsctech/1536/1536vw08.htm




At 4 per day, men have probably negated the benefit. The problem is keeping the level down when it's tempting to have another.

mell says

even for kids wine diluted with enough with water is 100 x healthier than sodas or excessive amounts of fruit juices.

My wife is on board to introducing alcohol to the kids when they're teens. My parents stigmatized it so much that when I got old enough I felt like I had to drink because it was forbidden. Basically defying them by drinking and not enjoying it in moderation. It's a balancing act that no one really has an answer to. I get why my parents did it the way they did because of their parents, but it's hard when booze is advertised everywhere. Hell a grocery store dedicates 5-10% of their square footage to booze. It's this forbidden product, but all you do is see it everywhere.

And Waitup says

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elvaramirez/2021/06/01/study-no-amount-of-drinking-alcohol-is-safe-for-brain-health/?sh=6ec9a83e7eaa

Over time I develop more and more respect for old traditions, because they probably have value. There is a stereotype that "Jews don't drink", but then there is also a religious obligation for Jews to drink a glass of red wine each Friday evening, and another one Saturday evening. And four glasses on Passover, and to get completely blitzed on Purim. And I think they drink a bit on all their holidays actually.

That amount of drinking doesn't seem too harmful for their brain health. Not that this proves anything, just noticing correlations.

Airplane is the worst possilble place to drink alcohol: just sitting in that air-conditioned tube with recycled air dehydrates you, but adding alcohol to the mix only makes it worse.

I drink, just not on planes.