patrick.net

I do allow fixed but never variable monthly charges on my credit card, like my server costs. I figure that if the charge is wrong, I can simply not pay, while if I have an automatic deduction from checking, I would have to fight to get that money back.

For my phone, I pay it manually online with my credit card every month, because phone companies are prone to surprising you with big charges.

And like you I never use a debit card.

Patrick says

I never use a debit card.

Around here, you must use a debit card to get cash from an ATM. Other than that, I would not have a debit card. Is that different where you live, or do you not use ATMs?

My credit union told me that I had to get a debit card to use their ATM, but when I pressed them, they admitted they could send me an ATM card which is not a debit card.

I think the issue is really only that they make money from the debit card but not the ATM card, that's all.

@HeadSet

Patrick says

My credit union told me that I had to get a debit card to use their ATM, but when I pressed them, they admitted they could send me an ATM card which is not a debit card.

I think the issue is really only that they make money from the debit card but not the ATM card, that's all.

HeadSet

They'll make their money either way. Electric isn't free unless you're a Tesla driver about to get fuck smacked with fees coming soon. ATM's use electric. Fine it's your cash, but it's not free to store it.

I don't see how a bank can make money from giving you an ATM card.

Banks use your money as collateral in the fractional reserve banking Ponzi scheme. Issuing an ATM card doesn’t make money, but encouraging you to deposit money and keep it at their bank is what they want. Your money in their bank does make them money.

True. They definitely needed to give me a plain non-debit ATM card or I would have found a different credit union.

At least with a credit union your membership provides you a stake in how the company is managed.

Patrick says

I don't see how a bank can make money from giving you an ATM card.

Atm fees and account management fees. Likely they can also sweep a certain percentage of your checking account overnight

mell says

Atm fees

Honestly banks make a shit load on gamblers at casinos. You show up with $1k, lose it and pull out more for $6-8 a pop. Those fees are extreme. Then cash only businesses that then have an ATM in the building that needs a card to get cash out. I see that a lot. Anytime at a big gas station there's always someone at an ATM.

Most younger people are uneducated and don't know you can get cash back at the register for free. And those 60 and older. I still see geezers writing checks slowing up the line. Problem is no one educates about day to day finance. Instead it's a basic economics class macro, micro, supply, demand, etc. Kids should be taught about interest rates, fees, 401k's, stocks, etc. My dad actually got me a stock simulator in the early 90's. I'd play that for hours. Hated my dad, but he did teach me a lot in his ass hole way teaching me things. Constant yelling at me.

Wookie tangent coming: There's stupid little things kids don't know now and I blame lazy parenting now that I see it in my kids friends. It's like parents my age just taught their kids to be respectful of other adults but the kid is a fucking idiot when you watch them from afar or the things they do. Things like pulling out a full blown serving spoon from some mac and cheese and my kids are like where did it go. The kid thought it was his spoon to eat with even though we had some out. The future is scary is all I'll say. No one has basic skills a man needs. I fear for kids being raised in urban areas.

mell says

they also get a lot of data out of this to crunch and sell

This is the entire point. Credit cards are owned by banks. Banks are controlled by the Fed. CBDC's, you get the picture...

mell says

Atm fees and account management fees. Likely they can also sweep a certain percentage of your checking account overnight

CBDC's again. Is a chip more secure than a swipe? Fuck no. What about a tap, even worse! They want you to get used to tapping chips, which will be inserted in your hands.

I had my card skimmed by some JS inserted into a site years ago. Credit union, one or two charges came out for Home Depot. I reported it and was credited back immediately while investigation was conducted. I've had to file other disputes as well, this has always been the standard, but I only use credit unions.

Other advantage, I don't keep much money in banks, don't really trust them...

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

Patrick says

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

I disagree on "less professional" part: when I needed to wire transfer a non-trivial sum to an unusual destination I first tried to go through a big bank because they promised 100% online experience and they failed miserably - I had to visit them 3 times, my money were frozen in the account for 3 or 4 days and ultimately they said it couldn't be done. Went to my long time CU and all was done under a 1/2 hour.

Who's less professional here?

PS. Stupid me for not wanting to go in person in the first place.

RWSGFY says

Patrick says

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

I disagree on "less professional" part: when I needed to wire transfer a non-trivial sum to an unusual destination I first tried to go through a big bank because they promised 100% online experience and they failed miserably - I had to visit them 3 times, my money were frozen in the account for 3 or 4 days and ultimately they said it couldn't be done. Went to my long time CU and all was done under a 1/2 hour.

Who's less professional here?

PS. Stupid me for not wanting to go in person in the first place.

Credit unions will process ACH transactions between individuals. My commercial bank won't do that.

The_Deplorable says

I'll always argue this. Cash costs you 2-5% pre-taxed dollars. It's more expensive to use cash as the CC fees are built into all transactions cash or otherwise. You're literally losing money, you all know this right? If you care about privacy your best bet is to just die. Not a threat, just reality. Cash is also trackable anyway. They put the serial numbers on there for fun.

You guys are all getting taxed 2-5% and sometimes more by using cash on top of sales tax in most states. You can dislike cashless establishments, it's not doing anything. They get more sales because so few people carry cash. They have to pay to have an armored truck transport their cash. Technically it brings down the cost of goods to use credit and you get paid for using it (if responsible). Less likely to get robbed by a piece of shit. You guys should know this in the SFBA. Cost of goods go up for everyone after a register gets robbed.

We spend about $150k on the CC annually. We get about $20-30k of tax free benefits on stuff we needed to buy anyway for daily life and work. Let me know if that's stupid? Privacy is a shit argument. I could find anyone here with 1 or 2 pieces of data and your entire family. I won't, but I'm just saying all cash doesn't do anything. It's a pain in the ass to deal with.

I can just make one cash transaction, once a month with my CC payment. It's a bigger pain to go to an ATM or bank to get cash for daily expenses. If you're all cash you might be out of you're network and eat $4-8 in ATM fees to get your own money. If in an emergency I also want to have my cash when needed. The credit union thing is a pain in the ass if you travel at all. One extra layer of planning and hauling around more cash likely than you need to be safe. Just use a CC. It's way easier and you get paid.