patrick.net

mell says

they also get a lot of data out of this to crunch and sell

This is the entire point. Credit cards are owned by banks. Banks are controlled by the Fed. CBDC's, you get the picture...

mell says

Atm fees and account management fees. Likely they can also sweep a certain percentage of your checking account overnight

CBDC's again. Is a chip more secure than a swipe? Fuck no. What about a tap, even worse! They want you to get used to tapping chips, which will be inserted in your hands.

I had my card skimmed by some JS inserted into a site years ago. Credit union, one or two charges came out for Home Depot. I reported it and was credited back immediately while investigation was conducted. I've had to file other disputes as well, this has always been the standard, but I only use credit unions.

Other advantage, I don't keep much money in banks, don't really trust them...

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

Patrick says

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

I disagree on "less professional" part: when I needed to wire transfer a non-trivial sum to an unusual destination I first tried to go through a big bank because they promised 100% online experience and they failed miserably - I had to visit them 3 times, my money were frozen in the account for 3 or 4 days and ultimately they said it couldn't be done. Went to my long time CU and all was done under a 1/2 hour.

Who's less professional here?

PS. Stupid me for not wanting to go in person in the first place.

RWSGFY says

Patrick says

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

I disagree on "less professional" part: when I needed to wire transfer a non-trivial sum to an unusual destination I first tried to go through a big bank because they promised 100% online experience and they failed miserably - I had to visit them 3 times, my money were frozen in the account for 3 or 4 days and ultimately they said it couldn't be done. Went to my long time CU and all was done under a 1/2 hour.

Who's less professional here?

PS. Stupid me for not wanting to go in person in the first place.

Credit unions will process ACH transactions between individuals. My commercial bank won't do that.

The_Deplorable says

I'll always argue this. Cash costs you 2-5% pre-taxed dollars. It's more expensive to use cash as the CC fees are built into all transactions cash or otherwise. You're literally losing money, you all know this right? If you care about privacy your best bet is to just die. Not a threat, just reality. Cash is also trackable anyway. They put the serial numbers on there for fun.

You guys are all getting taxed 2-5% and sometimes more by using cash on top of sales tax in most states. You can dislike cashless establishments, it's not doing anything. They get more sales because so few people carry cash. They have to pay to have an armored truck transport their cash. Technically it brings down the cost of goods to use credit and you get paid for using it (if responsible). Less likely to get robbed by a piece of shit. You guys should know this in the SFBA. Cost of goods go up for everyone after a register gets robbed.

We spend about $150k on the CC annually. We get about $20-30k of tax free benefits on stuff we needed to buy anyway for daily life and work. Let me know if that's stupid? Privacy is a shit argument. I could find anyone here with 1 or 2 pieces of data and your entire family. I won't, but I'm just saying all cash doesn't do anything. It's a pain in the ass to deal with.

I can just make one cash transaction, once a month with my CC payment. It's a bigger pain to go to an ATM or bank to get cash for daily expenses. If you're all cash you might be out of you're network and eat $4-8 in ATM fees to get your own money. If in an emergency I also want to have my cash when needed. The credit union thing is a pain in the ass if you travel at all. One extra layer of planning and hauling around more cash likely than you need to be safe. Just use a CC. It's way easier and you get paid.

https://slaynews.com/news/imf-chief-boasts-cbdc-could-harvest-very-useful-data-social-credit-score/

IMF Chief Boasts CBDCs Harvest ‘Very Useful Data’ for Public’s ‘Social Credit Score’

Patrick says

https://slaynews.com/news/imf-chief-boasts-cbdc-could-harvest-very-useful-data-social-credit-score/

IMF Chief Boasts CBDCs Harvest ‘Very Useful Data’ for Public’s ‘Social Credit Score’

We have been doing it for at least 40-50 years at this point now, at least. Water under the bridge. I remember going to Ace Hardware when I was 5 and them doing the carbon paper copy slider thing with the card. Late 80's.

If you have an address, car, phone, kid, doctor, insurance, school registration etc. they already have all the data they need without a CC. If you take cash out that's tracked. Cash going out the serial number is scanned and going in it is scanned. The armored trucks keep it separate by pickup. Small business the bank scans it. They know where you shop and bank.

You have no privacy. I'd rather make money going out tax free with points. The price is the same. I'm gonna be tracked the same as cash.

Nah, it's pretty damn hard to trace cash because it passes around so much.

Patrick says

Nah, it's pretty damn hard to trace cash because it passes around so much.

Look at a dollar bill. The serial number is scanned every time. Out and then in. Wookie took out $100 and then spent $100 at Target. They won't know the items, but it's traceable from beginning to end. 100%. Those 5 $20's came out of x ATM and was spent at y store.

Cash is only good if you launder it. Open a business where you only collect cash and only pay with cash. A regular citizen paying cash isn't protection. Nutt left the site, but he was delusional on the topic, so hopefully you didn't take his advice.

I'm saying that daily use of cash is effectively laundering. Most businesses don't scan serial numbers on bills.

Do you invest? What's the difference between a CC and investing? There is none. You have no control over your money. So I'm not sure the point. Any company could pull the rug out from under you at anytime.

With a CC I just don't pay it if I don't want to. I don't have to BK. With cash it's just gone. No recourse if you were screwed. Pay my CC off every month and I get over $8k in tax free benefits. I don't and haven't seen the benefits of cash ever besides gambling. A 2% fee, if even charged is trivial to the 10-15% back I make. Again tax free. For me it's actually about 24% of free rewards.

^^^^
This. I only pay cash to the mom & pop places. Get the right card and you can easily rack up 20% back. There are so many protections written into law for credit cards, mostly because the banks wanted people to be able to pay over the phone as opposed to physically presenting the card to be swiped:

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Fair Credit Reporting Act
Fair Credit Billing Act

For bank transfers (not cash), you have Regulation E.

WookieMan says

So I'm not sure the point.

There are a few points:

- to be able to still buy food if the US goes full Canada and blocks the credit cards of people who object to globalization and death jab mandates

- to make it harder to track my daily locations

- to make it harder to track my personal preferences in shopping

- as a symbolic statement that I object to centralized technocratic control over every aspect of life, the way it is in China

When payments become 100% digital (notice I said when not if), there will be nothing to prevent the wealthy from forcing their working class slaves to do their every bidding.

Money is liberty, money is security, money is the lifeblood of freedom of choice. When people lose control of their money, they have lost control of their life. Paper, coins, checks, or some form of payment that can’t be regulated by the wealthy is necessary for the lower and middle class to maintain their autonomy.

Patrick says

- to make it harder to track my daily locations

What year car do you have? If it's about 2010 or newer they can track your location even if you have a base/simple model. They can turn warning lights on to make you go to the dealer.

Patrick says

- to make it harder to track my personal preferences in shopping

I don't know why people care about this. I've stopped shopping recently, but my shopping history is hysterical. I've bought stuff like insertable vibrators for the wife I can control from the phone. Then I'll buy a breakfast sandwich maker. Meat thermometer. I'll order cheese from Wisconsin. Vitamins. If you buy data I'm a conundrum. You don't sell to me. I get more finance ads than anything. I already have my points cards so I don't have a need to open new ones.

Nuttboxer would complain abut this when he was around but I just don't care. I'm not doing anything illegal.

Patrick says

- to be able to still buy food if the US goes full Canada and blocks the credit cards of people who object to globalization and death jab mandates

No US based bank would EVER block your CC. They want you to keep it open to find the idiots that will pay 25% interest. I'd be more worried about you bank account and that getting cut off, then you're forced to pay the interest.

Also, I could live for 2 years, no job on CC's and pay no interest. It's an insurance policy to have money if things get tight. Still have I think about $30-40k cash savings. Our CC limits probably total $170k roughly. Cash value about $80k. If people pay interest on those levels they're not shutting the cards off (we pay on time). Credit card companies hate me.

https://www.petersweden.org/p/they-rejected-cashless-agenda

They REJECTED cashless agenda

Shops in Norway that refuse to accept cash now risk major fines.

We are finally seeing a reversal in the cashless agenda that has been ongoing for quite some time now.

As you might know, in Sweden, people have already gone so far that they have injected microchips in their bodies to use for cashless payments. Absolutely crazy.

But now Norway has gone against the cashless agenda.

From the 1st of May, shops that refuse to accept physical cash as payment risk massive fines.

If shops refuse to accept cash, they can be fined up to 4% of their revenue or up to $2.4 million.

The reason for this is to ensure that everyone can pay even if they don’t feel comfortable with digital payments, and to ensure security and preparedness in case of special situations, as we just saw happen in Spain with massive blackouts.

What happens if all power goes away and nobody can buy things anymore? That’s a big problem.

But not only Norway is doing this.

Hungary has also gone against the cashless agenda.

The Hungarian parliament recently passed a constitutional amendment ensuring that paying with physical cash is a fundamental right.

Next step: physical metal silver coins must be defined as the currency.

Patrick says

paying with physical cash is a fundamental right.

Technically, paying with cash is a fundamental right in the US, but is ignored at many places. Courts have even ruled that a business must even take payment entirely in pennies if tendered that way.