patrick.net

Patrick says

I don't see how a bank can make money from giving you an ATM card.

Atm fees and account management fees. Likely they can also sweep a certain percentage of your checking account overnight

mell says

Atm fees

Honestly banks make a shit load on gamblers at casinos. You show up with $1k, lose it and pull out more for $6-8 a pop. Those fees are extreme. Then cash only businesses that then have an ATM in the building that needs a card to get cash out. I see that a lot. Anytime at a big gas station there's always someone at an ATM.

Most younger people are uneducated and don't know you can get cash back at the register for free. And those 60 and older. I still see geezers writing checks slowing up the line. Problem is no one educates about day to day finance. Instead it's a basic economics class macro, micro, supply, demand, etc. Kids should be taught about interest rates, fees, 401k's, stocks, etc. My dad actually got me a stock simulator in the early 90's. I'd play that for hours. Hated my dad, but he did teach me a lot in his ass hole way teaching me things. Constant yelling at me.

Wookie tangent coming: There's stupid little things kids don't know now and I blame lazy parenting now that I see it in my kids friends. It's like parents my age just taught their kids to be respectful of other adults but the kid is a fucking idiot when you watch them from afar or the things they do. Things like pulling out a full blown serving spoon from some mac and cheese and my kids are like where did it go. The kid thought it was his spoon to eat with even though we had some out. The future is scary is all I'll say. No one has basic skills a man needs. I fear for kids being raised in urban areas.

mell says

they also get a lot of data out of this to crunch and sell

This is the entire point. Credit cards are owned by banks. Banks are controlled by the Fed. CBDC's, you get the picture...

mell says

Atm fees and account management fees. Likely they can also sweep a certain percentage of your checking account overnight

CBDC's again. Is a chip more secure than a swipe? Fuck no. What about a tap, even worse! They want you to get used to tapping chips, which will be inserted in your hands.

I had my card skimmed by some JS inserted into a site years ago. Credit union, one or two charges came out for Home Depot. I reported it and was credited back immediately while investigation was conducted. I've had to file other disputes as well, this has always been the standard, but I only use credit unions.

Other advantage, I don't keep much money in banks, don't really trust them...

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

Patrick says

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

I disagree on "less professional" part: when I needed to wire transfer a non-trivial sum to an unusual destination I first tried to go through a big bank because they promised 100% online experience and they failed miserably - I had to visit them 3 times, my money were frozen in the account for 3 or 4 days and ultimately they said it couldn't be done. Went to my long time CU and all was done under a 1/2 hour.

Who's less professional here?

PS. Stupid me for not wanting to go in person in the first place.

RWSGFY says

Patrick says

I use only credit unions now as well.

Plusses:

- they don't close accounts for political reasons like JP Morgan Chase does over and over
- higher rates than banks!

Minuses:

- not as professional
- limited number of physical branches

I disagree on "less professional" part: when I needed to wire transfer a non-trivial sum to an unusual destination I first tried to go through a big bank because they promised 100% online experience and they failed miserably - I had to visit them 3 times, my money were frozen in the account for 3 or 4 days and ultimately they said it couldn't be done. Went to my long time CU and all was done under a 1/2 hour.

Who's less professional here?

PS. Stupid me for not wanting to go in person in the first place.

Credit unions will process ACH transactions between individuals. My commercial bank won't do that.

The_Deplorable says

I'll always argue this. Cash costs you 2-5% pre-taxed dollars. It's more expensive to use cash as the CC fees are built into all transactions cash or otherwise. You're literally losing money, you all know this right? If you care about privacy your best bet is to just die. Not a threat, just reality. Cash is also trackable anyway. They put the serial numbers on there for fun.

You guys are all getting taxed 2-5% and sometimes more by using cash on top of sales tax in most states. You can dislike cashless establishments, it's not doing anything. They get more sales because so few people carry cash. They have to pay to have an armored truck transport their cash. Technically it brings down the cost of goods to use credit and you get paid for using it (if responsible). Less likely to get robbed by a piece of shit. You guys should know this in the SFBA. Cost of goods go up for everyone after a register gets robbed.

We spend about $150k on the CC annually. We get about $20-30k of tax free benefits on stuff we needed to buy anyway for daily life and work. Let me know if that's stupid? Privacy is a shit argument. I could find anyone here with 1 or 2 pieces of data and your entire family. I won't, but I'm just saying all cash doesn't do anything. It's a pain in the ass to deal with.

I can just make one cash transaction, once a month with my CC payment. It's a bigger pain to go to an ATM or bank to get cash for daily expenses. If you're all cash you might be out of you're network and eat $4-8 in ATM fees to get your own money. If in an emergency I also want to have my cash when needed. The credit union thing is a pain in the ass if you travel at all. One extra layer of planning and hauling around more cash likely than you need to be safe. Just use a CC. It's way easier and you get paid.

https://slaynews.com/news/imf-chief-boasts-cbdc-could-harvest-very-useful-data-social-credit-score/

IMF Chief Boasts CBDCs Harvest ‘Very Useful Data’ for Public’s ‘Social Credit Score’

Patrick says

https://slaynews.com/news/imf-chief-boasts-cbdc-could-harvest-very-useful-data-social-credit-score/

IMF Chief Boasts CBDCs Harvest ‘Very Useful Data’ for Public’s ‘Social Credit Score’

We have been doing it for at least 40-50 years at this point now, at least. Water under the bridge. I remember going to Ace Hardware when I was 5 and them doing the carbon paper copy slider thing with the card. Late 80's.

If you have an address, car, phone, kid, doctor, insurance, school registration etc. they already have all the data they need without a CC. If you take cash out that's tracked. Cash going out the serial number is scanned and going in it is scanned. The armored trucks keep it separate by pickup. Small business the bank scans it. They know where you shop and bank.

You have no privacy. I'd rather make money going out tax free with points. The price is the same. I'm gonna be tracked the same as cash.

Nah, it's pretty damn hard to trace cash because it passes around so much.

Patrick says

Nah, it's pretty damn hard to trace cash because it passes around so much.

Look at a dollar bill. The serial number is scanned every time. Out and then in. Wookie took out $100 and then spent $100 at Target. They won't know the items, but it's traceable from beginning to end. 100%. Those 5 $20's came out of x ATM and was spent at y store.

Cash is only good if you launder it. Open a business where you only collect cash and only pay with cash. A regular citizen paying cash isn't protection. Nutt left the site, but he was delusional on the topic, so hopefully you didn't take his advice.

I'm saying that daily use of cash is effectively laundering. Most businesses don't scan serial numbers on bills.