6
2

Which is more expensive: charging an electric vehicle or fueling a car with gas?


 invite response                
2021 Oct 23, 11:41am   20,972 views  168 comments

by RWSGFY   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  


Last year, Patrick Anderson went electric: He got a Porsche Taycan EV in dark blue.
Anderson, who is CEO of East Lansing-based economic consulting firm Anderson Economic Group, loves the zippy acceleration and "exciting" features the car offers. He also gets satisfaction in knowing that driving an EV benefits the environment, he said. 

But Anderson's joy comes with a dark side.
"They are a wonderful driving experience. But at the same time, they're an enormous burden in time and in energy in finding chargers and getting them charged," Anderson said. "And you’re not really saving much in terms of charging costs ... you may be paying more.”

Costs to drive an EV compared with a gasoline car are detailed in a report Anderson Economic released Thursday called "Comparison: Real World Cost of Fueling EVs and ICE Vehicles."
The study has four major findings:
There are four additional costs to powering EVs beyond electricity: cost of a home charger, commercial charging, the EV tax and "deadhead" miles.
For now, EVs cost more to power than gasoline costs to fuel an internal combustion car that gets reasonable gas mileage. 
Charging costs vary more widely than gasoline prices. 
There are significant time costs to finding reliable public chargers – even then a charger could take 30 minutes to go from 20% to an 80% charge.

Anderson has worked with the auto industry for 20 years and given the industry's transition to EVs, the group decided to do the studies to assess the likelihood consumer will adopt the cars.

...

"Part of the strength of the analysis is we’re showing the real-world costs that EV drivers face," Anderson said. "You typically have to go to a commercial charger and commercial charger rates are two, three or four times that of residential charger rates."

Then, there are the "deadhead miles" car owners spend driving around trying to find a commercial charger. Even charging at home on a Level 1 or Level 2 charger is time consuming and expensive. 

...

Anderson's report considers four costs beyond the cost of residential electricity when calculating how much it costs to drive an EV: 

- Cost of the residential charger
- Cost of commercial electricity
- An annual EV tax
- Deadhead miles to get to a fast charger

Given all of that, the conclusion is EVs cost more to "fuel" than gasoline cars that get reasonable gas mileage, Anderson said. It all depends on how the car is used and how much commercial charging is involved. 

A mid-priced internal combustion car that gets 33 miles per gallon would cost $8.58 in overall costs to drive 100 miles at $2.81 a gallon, the study found. But a mid-priced EV, such as Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf or a Tesla Model 3, would cost $12.95 to drive 100 miles in terms of costs that include recharging the vehicle using mostly a commercial charger.
On a yearly basis, assuming the mid-priced cars traveled 12,000 miles, it would cost  $1,030 to drive an internal combustion car and $1,554 to drive an EV. 
For luxury cars that get 26 miles per gallon and use premium gas at $3.25 a gallon, the cost to drive an internal combustion car 100 miles is $12.60. The cost to drive a luxury EV, such as a Taycan, Tesla Model S or X or Jaguar I-Pace, is $15.52 to travel 100 miles. That is using mostly commercial chargers. 
“That’s apples to apples and includes the extra EV taxes, the commercial charging and the home charging and the allowance of driving to a gas station, which, for most Americans, is very short compared to driving to a commercial charger for an EV owner," Anderson said.

The study differs from some reports that show it's cheaper to drive an EV than a conventional car. For example, a 2018 study from the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute found the average cost to operate an EV in the U.S. was $485 per year compared with a gasoline-powered vehicle at $1,117. Anderson said most studies include only the cost of residential electricity and don't factor in the four other costs that this study does.

...

Charging costs vary much more for EVs than gasoline prices, too, by 100% or more from month-to-month or week-to-week, Anderson said. 
"Even if you drive to the most expensive gas station, your varying price won’t be as great as that," he said.

“That’s going to be a big surprise to a lot of drivers," Anderson said, adding that many commercial chargers will also require the EV driver to enroll and sometimes pay a $20 fee, but that might be reimbursed with charging.
Also, don't plan on ever having a 100% charge on your EV, he said. 
"It’s very difficult to charge it up to 100%," Anderson said. "The chargers slow down and the manufacturers warn you not to do it because there is additional burden on the battery system when you get your vehicle above a 90% charge.”

That means if the vehicle advertises a range of 240 miles on a full charge, a driver in reality will get considerably less on, say, an 80% charge, he said.
For new EV drivers these costs, time constraints and other considerations are often a surprise, Anderson said.
“Unlike their reliable gas cars that have 300 or 400 miles of range that can be filled up at a number of gas stations in our country, you have to think about what available chargers you have and plan it out," Anderson said. "It’s more than range anxiety, it’s a burden of constantly monitoring the charging status.”
The Anderson report lists about two dozen sources in its research, which relied on consumer experiences and costs for drivers that go beyond government data on fuel economy and electricity prices. Anderson said it did stopwatch measurements of the time required to refuel gasoline cars and EVs, recorded customer experiences on reliability of chargers, charging time and costs. It used consumer reports from actual EV drivers, including those posted on forums for Taycan and Tesla drivers, Reddit and applications serving EV drivers such as PlugShare and ChargePoint.


https://apple.news/AAlPx0L7ZRPikqoXmgfQntg

« First        Comments 104 - 143 of 168       Last »     Search these comments

104   Blue   2023 Jan 10, 6:01pm  

EBGuy says


socal2 says

Oh my! 81 cents per kwHr peak during the summer.

May god bless you, if there is any ;)
105   Reality   2023 Jan 10, 6:12pm  

socal2 says


Obviously batteries are still massively expensive, but EV's have way less moving parts and components to wear out. No transmissions, oil changes, brake jobs etc....


Engine and transmission can last 1/4 million miles and 20+ years, especially without government mpg regulation forcing manufacturers into small displacement turbos. No lithium battery can last 20+ years. Brake jobs are necessary on BEV's every year due to rust/sticking thanks to lack of use. "Less moving" is not a good thing when it comes to brakes. The heavy weight of massive battery wears out tires and suspension components faster, and especially wears out public roads fast, which requires asphalt and concrete to repave, both of which generate enormous amount of CO2 in production. What the heck are the refineries supposed to do with gasoline as byproduct in the production of asphalt, synthetic rubber and plastic? Making Molotov Cocktails?
106   socal2   2023 Jan 10, 7:15pm  

Reality says

No lithium battery can last 20+ years.


We will see. The original Model S's on the road now are about 10 years old and I am not seeing a bunch of reports of major battery degradation yet.

True about the weight of the car and impact on infrastructure. That will get better over time with less batteries/weight as they improve drive train efficiency and energy density. Tesla already uses less batteries than most other EV's in the market and gets better range.
107   SunnyvaleCA   2023 Jan 10, 8:50pm  

DeficitHawk says

I think people who own a home and have a garage where they can charge, and who also own more than one car for the family (so the other car can be a gas car) can make good use of electric cars.

This is spot on. I appreciate your thoughtful post. You are 100% correct that electric vehicles can make an excellent 2nd vehicle in a large number of households. They can make a great vehicle in a bunch of other circumstances, too.

Unfortunately, electric cars have become a yet another political hot topic. The over-eager government (and certain types of people) pushing electrics are actually creating stubborn resistance. Jumpstarting an industry to get above a point of sufficient quantity can be a useful strategy, but I don't think electric cars need so much push that a whole bunch of people have a bad experience.
109   Eric Holder   2023 Nov 17, 3:14pm  

PumpingRedheads says

About to become more expensive to charge the EV.

EV Charging Station SPACs go SPLAT!

https://wolfstreet.com/2023/11/17/the-collapse-of-ev-charger-spacs-chargepoint-ceo-sacked-cfo-out-revenues-plunge-losses-mount-shares-96-from-peak-evgo-not-far-behind/


Chargepoint is a fucking joke: their shitty chargers are just 6kW, which means it takes fucking hours to add any meaningful range.
110   Eric Holder   2023 Nov 17, 3:21pm  

Reality says


Brake jobs are necessary on BEV's every year due to rust/sticking thanks to lack of use.


I'm not sure about lack of use part: I once was at a stoplight next to a ModelX and noticed that the front brake rotor had a very pronounced ridge around the edge, meaning they were at least 1-2mm down from the original thickness. Now, this is not unusual for ICE cars and on average happens after 50-80K miles (depending on the pad compaund), but having this much wear doesn't really fit with the "EVs don't use brakes at all" narrative. Of course that ModelX could've had 400K miles on the clock - we'll never know.
111   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Nov 18, 5:20am  

Eric Holder says

Chargepoint is a fucking joke: their shitty chargers are just 6kW, which means it takes fucking hours to add any meaningfu


Most of them are. Especially public (government) bathrooms...er, chargers.
112   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 19, 4:58pm  

Happy Juneteenth EV Fluffers!


Demand Power Charges Are the Achilles Heel of a Nationwide EV Fast Charging Network

Factors that impact DCFC profitability include low utilization percentages (due to the high percentage of home charging and that EVs represent less than 1% of the total US vehicle fleet)….and also high operating costs from demand power charges. Demand power is typically the highest electricity usage during a 15 minute period in a billing cycle and utilities charge a premium for it. By measuring spikes in power demand and charging a higher fee to supply it, a utility is better prepared to deliver electricity under all power demand scenarios and be able to afford to invest in the infrastructure to do so. The cost of demand power at my office location is $3.41 per kW….which is 22 times more than the overall cost of electricity.

The challenges for achieving DCFC profitability might be one reason this country’s largest EV manufacturer fired their entire 500 member charging team. Perhaps it was discovered that this division was an important drain on profitability, and why Wall Street does not appear to recognize its robust charging system as an important source of future profitability.

The cost to construct, operate, and maintain a DCFC station is significantly higher than for a gasoline station. If DCFC stations cannot be operated profitably, what does it mean for the viability of the transition to an electric vehicle world that many are aspiring for.


https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2024/06/18/demand_power_chargesthe_achilles_heel_of_a_nationwide_ev_fast_charging_network_1038939.html

For reference: https://www.ampcontrol.io/post/the-ugly-truth-of-demand-charges-and-how-to-save-money
113   socal2   2024 Jun 19, 5:22pm  

Most people charge at home at night when the car is not in use and the electricity rates are the lowest.

It costs me about $8.00 to fill up my battery each week charging at home. It costs my wife $70 a week filling up her Hyundai at Costco and we drive the same amount of miles.
114   Blue   2024 Jun 19, 5:41pm  

@socal2 what’s your 1kwh price and battery capacity in kWh units, how many miles does it give per charge, what’s your ice mi/gal
Mine take 100h on regular wall socket which draws about 12A on s3 plaid. Mostly use charge point.
115   socal2   2024 Jun 19, 6:41pm  

@Blue - I pay $0.13/kWh for Super Off Peak (midnight to 6AM) and (midnight to 2PM on weekends).

My battery is 81kWh and I plug into my existing dryer outlet in the garage which is 220V at 30 amps. So I get about 22 miles/hour hour charge. I typically charge 2 nights a week to stay in the super off peak times keeping the battery between 20 and 80% full.
116   Blue   2024 Jun 19, 7:21pm  

@socal2, your $.13/KWh makes a big difference, good for you. Down here, pge charges $.42-48 depending on the tier. I have a feeling, can go up even more soon. In terms of the price EVs are not super economical down here. But this doesn’t stop super enthusiasts around who get free charging at work. Based on what I know most places offer 7kw (I read 6 on display, because of the load) for 4 hours max. One has to run around to pull in and out to avoid fines. At best it helps 10 to 20 miles per charge. One has to look for the next 4 hr slot. Most likely one ends up stick around 10 to 12 hr to get two charges. I guess, it’s good for the employer!
117   WookieMan   2024 Jun 20, 1:01pm  

socal2 says

It costs my wife $70 a week filling up her Hyundai at Costco and we drive the same amount of miles.

And what was the price difference between the cars? Is it similar sized to your Tesla? $70/wk is kind of a lot for any Hyundai that I know of unless driving 800 miles a week which is unlikely in most scenarios.

I drive a V8 Armada, so shitty gas mileage and I don't even spend $70/wk living 20 miles from the nearest big stores or things I need to do/get. Wife drives a 4 Runner and goes to the gym every morning 20 miles each way and then drives her territories of IL and Wisconsin. I think she even struggles to get $70/wk and she drives a lot more than most.

I don't know if it's a CA thing with gas prices, but in IL ICE is substantially cheaper than an EV based on price alone. I can fuel up for 5 years here before any model of Tesla is a break even. Don't have to charge every night or at work. I can go a week and take 3 minutes to fuel up one time. I know there's a gas station near if running low. There are zero chargers where I'm at.

Not an EV hater as I've driven them before. The economics of them doesn't make sense. This is one of those CA centric things in my opinion and it looks like they're gonna tax you cats as I've been saying. You don't get to use the roads for free. You will be paying more per mile than an ICE vehicle on top of the higher purchase price soon.

I know the green push has nothing to do with your driving a Tesla. You like it. Which is fine. I need to tow 200-350 miles. No EV is remotely close to doing that and I'm talking 3-5k gross weight. Nothing extreme.
118   Blue   2024 Jun 20, 7:05pm  

I am on a trip to Maryland, DC areas. I get gas for $3.25 at Costco! Still see EVs around. I’d suspect that they might have bought them for non economical reasons like fun, lifestyle etc.
119   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 8:17am  

Blue says

socal2, your $.13/KWh makes a big difference, good for you. Down here, pge charges $.42-48 depending on the tier. I have a feeling, can go up even more soon.


I would not recommend getting an EV if you can't charge at home. It's doable to rely on Tesla Superchargers, but it takes away one of the greatest conveniences of driving EV's. California just changed electric rates statewide that screws new solar homes, but locks in and even lowers my hourly rates. I have SDG&E and they have an "EV plan" where they charge higher rates during the day and give you lower rates at night.

I did the math 6 years ago when I got my first EV (Chevy Bolt) and the math worked for me in terms of gas and maintenance savings.
120   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 8:31am  

WookieMan says


And what was the price difference between the cars? Is it similar sized to your Tesla? $70/wk is kind of a lot for any Hyundai that I know of unless driving 800 miles a week which is unlikely in most scenarios.


A mid range Hyundai Santa Fe is $38K. Premium Santa Fe's run as high as $51K in SoCal. A new Model Y is $45K.......but there is also a $7,500 federal subsidy that brings the price down to $37,500.

Then I get over $200/month in gas/maintenance savings. The cheapest gas I can get at Costco is $4.55/gallon.

So even without the $7,500 Federal subsidy, the cost of owning/operating a Tesla is less than a mid-range Hyundai after 3 years.

I get it that you are constantly towing and an EV won't work for you, but the MAJORITY of drivers will never tow a thing in their entire lives.
121   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 8:47am  

socal2 says


Most people charge at home at night when the car is not in use and the electricity rates are the lowest.


Marie Antionette 'Let them eat cake'.

Most ppl in California are renters.

Of course, my post wasn't even about that. It was about DCFC profitability.

But as usual, socal2 engages in red herrings, whataboutisms and non-sequitors when he doesn't like where the subject is going.
122   just_passing_through   2024 Jun 21, 8:55am  

I've been looking at the Ford F150 powerboost. It's a V6 twin turbo with an electric motor in between the engine and the 10 speed transmission. It's also basically a rolling generator with a 3.6 (upgradeable to 7.2) KW inverter. You can crank the AC in a large 3rd wheel for a 3 day weekend and burn 1/3 to 2/3 a tank of gas and it's quiet. It's also way more efficient than the tri-fuel generator I bought last year and only ever so slightly less efficient than a good diesel generator.

Over 600 mile range. 430HP, aluminum body and over 500ft/lbs of torque.

I'm only waiting to hear about the 2025 models before I buy. Rumor is it'll come with a 50KW battery (instead of the small one it has now) that will give it an electric only range of 30 miles in best case conditions.

I can easily putter back and forth to my aging parents house on electric only to check in on them. The build I'm considering is a wee bit over $85K MSRP but I know a place that will sell it to me for 4% below invoice. I think it might qualify for the Federal subsidy (with the larger battery) and they do allow incentive stacking without any BS. This place basically doesn't even have a service center, their business model is to move trucks as fast as possible with the lowest overhead possible.

I think PHEV is the near future vs. fully electric. I think Teslas are numero uno with respect to electric but aren't built very well.

Speaking of shitty builds RAM is out with a PHEV with over 600HP but it's an all electric drive train and they have a jeep V6 onboard as a generator. Again, with a range over 600 miles. But I would never buy a Stellantis vehicle. Rumor is they are fucking up builds on purpose to have an excuse to move production out of the US entirely. Either way they are pieces of shits. Much like my 90s jeep was.
123   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 9:26am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Of course, my post wasn't even about that. It was about DCFC profitability.


Don't believe anyone is arguing that you can save money on fuel/electricity if you have to rely exclusively on DCFC. The Tesla Supercharging prices in California are about the same as a gallon of gas. I only use them for pure convenience or on a long road trip. Over 98% of my charging is done at home.
124   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 9:29am  

just_passing_through says

I think PHEV is the near future vs. fully electric.


PHEV's are twice as complex and super expensive. Why bother with a hybrid when you still have to do all the maintenance on a gas engine, oil changes, transmissions and brakes?

The other OEM's simply did not invest in batteries like Tesla has and are stuck with the worst of both worlds.
125   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 10:26am  

socal2 says

money on fuel/electricity if you have to rely exclusively on DCFC. The Tesla Supercharging prices in California are about the same as a gallon of gas. I only use them for pure convenience or on a long road trip. Over 98% of my charging is done at home.


AGAIN...you can't keep on subject.

That has nothing to do with the profitability of DCFC charging stations. Nothing.


126   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 11:21am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

AGAIN...you can't keep on subject.

That has nothing to do with the profitability of DCFC charging stations. Nothing.


WTF are you talking about?

The thread subject is: *Which is more expensive: charging an electric vehicle or fueling a car with gas?*

I am sharing 6 years of personal experience where I am saving over $200 month on fuel driving an EV and charging at home.
127   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 11:23am  

socal2 says


WTF are you talking about?

The thread subject is: *Which is more expensive: charging an electric vehicle or fueling a car with gas?*

I am sharing 6 years of personal experience where I am saving over $200 month on fuel driving an EV and charging at home.


Amazing.
128   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 11:32am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

socal2 says



WTF are you talking about?

The thread subject is: *Which is more expensive: charging an electric vehicle or fueling a car with gas?*

I am sharing 6 years of personal experience where I am saving over $200 month on fuel driving an EV and charging at home.


Amazing.


It HAS been amazing driving my Tesla these past years.

So much power, enjoyment and cost savings!
129   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 11:36am  

socal2 says


HAS been amazing driving my Tesla these past years.

So much power, enjoyment and cost savings!


So fucking what, Marie Antionette? Totally off topic. Again.
131   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 1:19pm  

The_Deplorable says






Yeah - that is absurd.

Should have just given the money to Tesla to continue to build out the Supercharger network.

Just like the government should have given Elon Musk money to increase Starlink for rural internet access instead of spending Billions on Fiber Optic.
https://twitter.com/JesseBWatters/status/1803583502174028210
132   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 3:16pm  

socal2 says

Should have just given the money to Tesla to continue to build out the Supercharger network.


With what team? (Then again, why do I bother. You didn't read this the first time)

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

The challenges for achieving DCFC profitability might be one reason this country’s largest EV manufacturer fired their entire 500 member charging team. Perhaps it was discovered that this division was an important drain on profitability, and why Wall Street does not appear to recognize its robust charging system as an important source of future profitability.
133   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 3:18pm  

socal2 says

Just like the government should have given Elon Musk money to increase Starlink for rural internet access instead of spending Billions on Fiber Optic.


What fiber optic? They built out some. A fraction of what is needed.
134   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2024 Jun 21, 3:27pm  

socal2 says

The_Deplorable says







Yeah - that is absurd.

Should have just given the money to Tesla to continue to build out the Supercharger network.

Just like the government should have given Elon Musk money to increase Starlink for rural internet access instead of spending Billions on Fiber Optic.
https://twitter.com/JesseBWatters/status/1803583502174028210


you think they are incompetent? no, they are intentionally stealing your tax dollars my man. those billions made someone’s business partner very rich.
135   socal2   2024 Jun 21, 4:16pm  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

The challenges for achieving DCFC profitability might be one reason this country’s largest EV manufacturer fired their entire 500 member charging team. Perhaps it was discovered that this division was an important drain on profitability, and why Wall Street does not appear to recognize its robust charging system as an important source of future profitability.


Those 500 got fired with the big 10% cut they did across the board a few weeks ago. They are not abandoning Superchargers, they hired some of the key people back already.

Tesla has never played-up charging revenue from their Supercharger network as anything major in their P&L. It was always understood that it was the price to pay if they were going to mainstream Tesla's and allow for long roadtrips during the early adoption phase.

Since Tesla has DOUBLE the gross margin compared to the rest of the auto industry, Tesla could afford to provide this awesome service as part of the luxury and convenience of driving a Tesla.

As Tesla scales more batteries for onsite storage at Supercharger stations, they can bring their cost of energy down by filling up the batteries at night and selling during peak times. Tesla chargers have also become the standard for Ford, GM, Honda, Mercedes, Volvo, BMW, Hyundai.......where they will be charged a premium to access the Supercharger network which will help with utilization and peak costs.

I've never had to wait on a charge for a Supercharger site. The navigation on the screen tells you the number of stalls open in real time. They have plenty of capacity as more EV's (of all brands) hit the road.
137   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 21, 5:07pm  

socal2 says

Tesla has never played-up charging revenue from their Supercharger network as anything major in their P&L


Yes. That is why the article I posted said:

Perhaps it was discovered that this division was an important drain on profitability, and why Wall Street does not appear to recognize its robust charging system as an important source of future profitability.

socal2 says

I've never had to wait on a charge for a Supercharger site


SOO WHAT? Has nothing to do with the profitability of them, which is the topic. Just more Tesla Fluffing on your part.
138   komputodo   2024 Jun 22, 8:09am  

RWSGFY says

Which is more expensive: charging an electric vehicle or fueling a car with gas?

Why does it even matter. The inconvenience of the short range and having to looks for charging stations and all the other problems associated with EVs cancels out the gasoline savings if there really is any.
139   komputodo   2024 Jun 22, 8:10am  

socal2 says

I've never had to wait on a charge for a Supercharger site.

Me neither because I drive an ICE car
140   socal2   2024 Jun 22, 9:59am  

komputodo says

I've never had to wait on a charge for a Supercharger site.

Me neither because I drive an ICE car


I don't have to wait in a long Costco line to fill up every week either like I do with my wife's car. I just plug it when I pull into the garage.

Couldn't be easier or more convenient.
141   socal2   2024 Jun 22, 10:00am  

Most of those 46% who want to switch aren't driving Teslas.

Other than maybe Rivian, all the other EV's suck.
142   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jun 22, 10:07am  

socal2 says

Most of those 46% who want to switch aren't driving Teslas.


So fucking what?

1) This isn't the Tesla Fluffer Thread.
2) You have no proof of that. You just made it up.
143   WookieMan   2024 Jun 22, 10:53am  

socal2 says

I've never had to wait on a charge for a Supercharger site. The navigation on the screen tells you the number of stalls open in real time. They have plenty of capacity as more EV's (of all brands) hit the road.

In CA sure. Not the case in most states. Argonne National Laboratories in IL had charging for employees (free) and took their system out due to costs. I personally know an employee there. She's since had her Tesla die on her multiple times and now had to have the electrician come out and install home charging wiring. The car has become a hassle for her.

It's tougher in different states and climate with electric. As I've mention I have a lithium battery golf cart. My charger for that alone was $200. Cheaper Chinese battery was $1,300. I've looked at Tesla chargers for home and quality stuff is over $500. This isn't a dig, but most Tesla owners don't know anything about properly wiring to the panel. 6 gauge wire and 50amp breaker is another $500 easy. If you have to put it in pipe/conduit and the labor thats $1-2k. Assuming financed you're 6 months in the hole just to charge at home. That's not including electric or the cost of the car being higher.

It works in CA. Temperate climate so you're not running the AC every time you drive losing milage. It doesn't work well in at least half the country. The CT deliveries and hype will keep them afloat. But Tesla could go under in 3-5 years with market saturation. I hate predictions, but I'm just not seeing it. Anyone that bought any non-CT model will keep it for a long time. There's a majority of the population that has no interest in charging a car for 30 minutes on a road trip. That's undeniable. The business plan is to dump and run. Hence why Elon is asking for his $56B or whatever it is (agreed to). He knows the ship is sinking and so do the shareholders.

Space X will be his legacy. Tesla will go under. Someone will likely come in and buy up the debt/stocks and keep it going. This is what Musk does. I actually like him, but until you understand his business model people don't get it. Your Tesla will likely be bricked in the next 5 years to generate revenue. Some software update. This is the future. He's following Apple, just with cars.

« First        Comments 104 - 143 of 168       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions