patrick.net

Yawn.

Commercial air travel is so overrated in its own self-importance.

Yes, it is a fabulous value proposition. I have used it as transportation and expect I will continue to do so.

But apart from law enforcement and public safety, the only air travel that's not a completely discretionary luxury is air transport of human organs for transplant, or bringing medicines, blood, specialist first responders like rescue teams to disaster sites. The rest of it is a discretionary luxury.

https://archive.md/Ujr5E?source=patrick.net

United Pilots Laid Off Due to Vaccine Mandate Say They Could Have Prevented Holiday Flight Disruptions

My sister went to Jamaica with her family for xmas and their flight home was cancelled because of the very weak Omicron (Xi) variant somehow. So they had to spend a few extra days there at their own expense.

joshuatrio says

Over 1,000 flight cancellations.....

Due to layoffs/firings/quitting of those who wouldn't take the shot.

Due to sickness in those who did take the shot.

Due to the satanic pedophiles wanting to kick us out of air travel, and eventually all travel that is more than a few miles our government issued public housing in the glorious future that is 2030!

B.A.C.A.H. says

The rest of it is a discretionary luxury.

No it's not. Your road is a luxury. Your bike path is a luxury. Your local park is a luxury. Everything is a luxury in theory based on your view of it. Let's all just give everyone an acre, they can grow their own food, have some livestock and chickens and they have no luxury. They don't need to travel anywhere. Damn, that sounds like fun.... or pure misery. Even homesteaders didn't do that in America.

Also aviation is probably the largest GDP producers across ALL fields. Between manufacturing, service jobs and government jobs including military it's literally almost the backbone of our country. Oil or ground transportation might beat it out, but a large part of oil goes towards aviation as well. Oh and none of this happens:

B.A.C.A.H. says

But apart from law enforcement and public safety, the only air travel that's not a completely discretionary luxury is air transport of human organs for transplant, or bringing medicines, blood, specialist first responders like rescue teams to disaster sites.

safely without commercial air travel and engineering better planes and systems through recreational travel. I'll never get your take on flying. It is delusional and makes no sense. If I have to or want to be in Puerto Rico tomorrow, why does that bother you? What if a business deal comes about and saves hundreds or lives? Or an idea is born from random strangers that makes life better for everyone? Or a friendship is made from someone you'd otherwise never meet? You meet a spouse? Or you just have fun and explore this world we're given one limited chance to check out. Aviation is amazing. Bash me all you want, but you're wrong and I'll continue to defend it here.

Patrick says

My sister went to Jamaica with her family for xmas and their flight home was cancelled because of the very weak Omicron (Xi) variant somehow. So they had to spend a few extra days there at their own expense.

You can get lodging cheap in Jamaica. My college professor neighbors have been 30+ times, so we have some expert advice. The place is safe and can be really cheap if needed. We're doing an AI as we're bringing the kids and didn't want a house and having to cook and all that comes with that. If we have to do anything on our dime I can pick up the phone and have a cheap place quickly. Hopefully the tests go well.

I also don't think the inbound (to US) restrictions aren't as "fierce" as people, mainly media make them out to be. None of these people want their jobs talking with thousands of people daily. Call it profiling, but my family also isn't going to get hassled outside of passport and identification for the nephew because of last name and skin color.

I've accidentally brought drugs and knives through security 3-4 times. Multiple buddies crotch pot through TSA. It's the most mundane job and they don't give a fuck. It's also about how you react to any situation. Kill them with kindness or humor if you can read your crowd right. I've told TSA there's a bomb in there and they just laughed. They found a multi-tool with a knife blade and I said "damn you thwarted my plan to kill 200 people with a 2" blade and pliers." I've brought a gummy that they discovered and just said it was a vitamin.

With road warriors and travelers you learn to think on your feet. My wife travels 3x's as much as I do. We learn from each other. We meet some great people that we still keep in touch with. I don't care how great your home base is, everyone needs to get out and travel and experience.

WookieMan says

If I have to or want to be in Puerto Rico tomorrow, why does that bother you?

Puerto Rico tomorrow? More power to you. It doesn't bother me. Never said it bothered me. You said it bothered me. LIke you know the inside of my mind.

Nor does it bother me if it becomes difficult or problematic or impractical, any more than it would bother me if a Tiffany Jewelry store couldn't operate.

Like I said, I have used air travel in the past and expect that I will continue to do so. It is reliable, it is safe, and for what you get for what you pay, it is one of the Bargains of the Millenia. And I say that in recognition that except for a few things I wrote about above, it is a totally discretionary luxury.

Remember when the planes were all grounded for few days after 9/11? Life went on.

Remember when in Q2 of 2020 when COVID first spread through our country and the airlines operated a tiny fraction of their schedules? Life went on, unaffected (except for those who depend on that discretionary industry for their livelihoods). Because that's what it is: a safe, reliable, bargain-value discretionary luxury.

WookieMan says

Bash me all you want, but you're wrong and I'll continue to defend it here.

Ahem, didn't bash you at all. Didn't even bash aviation for calling it what it is.

Yes, yes, I know, business meetings and future spouse yadda yadda. Things like that happened all the time without air travel.

NuttBoxer says

Due to layoffs/firings/quitting of those who wouldn't take the shot.

Due to sickness in those who did take the shot.

This is kind of beautiful in a way.

But the media won't report it truthfully.

WookieMan says

I've accidentally brought drugs and knives through security 3-4 times.

In college I flew from Athens to Tel Aviv, but forgot I had bought a switchblade because it was so cool and not legal in the US. El Al has ridiculously good security. When they asked if I had any weapons on me, I said, "Oh yeah, a switchblade." They told me to check it with my bag and that was that. Surprising.

And twice in the US I forgot I had my Leatherman on my keychain with its 2" blade. Security said I had to throw it out or couldn't board the flight, so I left the security area, found a potted plant, and just put the Leatherman in the dirt of the plant and then picked it out again after my return flight. Did that twice! But now I remember to remove leave it home each time before flying.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Puerto Rico tomorrow? More power to you. It doesn't bother me. Never said it bothered me. You said it bothered me. LIke you know the inside of my mind.

You comment on every comment I make about air travel. You know it too. If it doesn't bother you, why comment? Others here can confirm.

I don't care if you fly or not. Every comment I make on travel gets shit on by you. It bothers you. Aviation is a top 3 thing that has changed your life for the better whether you like it or not. Sorry I like to share stories. I probably will in 3 weeks. I'm fortunate, but also work my ass off for it.

It boggles my mind anyone could take issue with travel. I like to talk about life with other people that might enjoy the same topic or can give me tips. Just ignore if it bothers you. I'm generally cordial with 99% of people here. Your constant attacks on travel and aviation are annoying if I'm being blunt. It's ironic you bitch about CA and then bitch about traveling. Sounds like a miserable existence.

OnVacation's sailboat is a luxury, when are you going to start bitching about that? Some people have hobbies. Travel or sailing being one of them. Planes exist and I'm going to use the fuck out of them with the one life I was given to have an amazing time with my family. So stop letting it bother you and focus on making yourself happy.

WookieMan says

It bothers you

No it doesn't.

My comment on this thread did not even mention you. It was more about the self-importance commercial aviation attaches to itself. No mention of Wookie Man at all, no shitting on him at all. This seems to be a very sensitive topic, when I point out commercial aviation is a discretionary luxury, while never mentioning about you.

Of course expensive hobbies are discretionary spending. By definition. They are hobbies. Why so much anger, so much hostility about that reality, particularly when I didn't mention you about it?

Like Shakespeare's quote in Hamlet, "the lady doth protest too much."

It's more about an industry that gorged itself on stock buybacks with its rainy day funds, then whining and begging with the federal government for tax-payer handouts because (they say with their savvy marketing) that their industry is so critical to the economy (it's not).

I get it about the employees. Fine. If we want to print money (can you say, inflation?) to hand out to idled mechanics, baggage handlers and the like, then do it and hand it out directly to them. If that's what we want to do.

But not for greedy ass airlines that use savvy PR to make people think their role in our society is mission-critical, even as they gorged their rainy day money on buybacks. (Can you say, money printing and inflation, Wookie Man?).

When GM and Bank of America cried for taxpayer handouts in the financial crisis (can you say, money printing and inflation, Wookie Man?), they were partially nationalized for a while (handouts for equity) and much of their senior management was fired. Whether we agree or not if those should have been bailed out (I am not sure either way about it), I think the auto industry and banking system were more critical to our day-to-day economy than the airlines.

It's a savvy PR campaign by the airlines for your taxpayer money, sir.







Chill out, man.

B.A.C.A.H. says

It's a savvy PR campaign by the airlines for your taxpayer money, sir.

I don't pay anything for flying. If it comes from my federal taxes, which it doesn't, I might pay $1/yr through some pork barrel program. Damn, couldn't get my lotto ticket... All the fees are built into the ticket and landing fees to the airlines at the respective airport.

The non-flying citizen is not paying a dime in 50-80% of the cases as most don't pay taxes. Run a business with 50 employees from the Gulf Coast and up to Canada along the Mississippi and let me know how that works without flight. Then tell those 50 employees they get to keep their jobs or lose them because flight is a "luxury." You're out of your element on this topic.

You've also quoted me on multiple threads about air travel, so that's a load of nonsense that you've never addressed it directly to me.

https://www.bts.gov/newsroom/mid-december-airline-industry-employment-16000-employees-mid-november?source=patrick.net

That's just airline employees. An airport is a small town/city. Retail, food, parking, TSA, construction workers, FAA, ATC, Boeing, etc. You're probably talking 10M plus employed in the industry. That's 10M people that cannot feed a family. Totally luxurious.

If you want to say going to a restaurant is a luxury, I might agree. I'm not sure you understand where you live and how our economy is based. It's service based. Our economy collapses without air travel. Again, not hyperbole.

https://www.ntd.com/faa-vaccine-policy-violates-its-own-rules-attorneys-and-doctors-say_719880.html?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_campaign=patrick.net

The FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) is breaking its own rule that states pilots should not fly after having taken medications that have been approved for less than a year, according to a group of attorneys, doctors, and other experts; including a pilot who says his career ended due to adverse reactions from a vaccine.

Patrick says

https://www.ntd.com/faa-vaccine-policy-violates-its-own-rules-attorneys-and-doctors-say_719880.html?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_campaign=patrick.net

The FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) is breaking its own rule that states pilots should not fly after having taken medications that have been approved for less than a year, according to a group of attorneys, doctors, and other experts; including a pilot who says his career ended due to adverse reactions from a vaccine.

NO pilot should take the vaccine. They are medically evaluated 1-2 times a year as HeadSet corrected me on a previous comment (and maybe correct me here). The symptoms of Covid are so minor for someone that has to be healthy to fly from the start. Fatigue would be the only concern as someone that has gotten it. I trust pilots though. This isn't the 80's of drinking beers in the terminals and even then there were minimal crashes.

And not to say pilots are not skilled, but it's a much more automated systems than most understand. You do have to know how to fly the fucker when shit hits the fan though. It's mostly listening skills and inputing stuff into a computer basically. Altitude X and direction X on a computer basically. Even landing is like a retro video game on an ILS approach. Just keep it between the vertical and horizontal lines and you'll hit the runway if there's even 10% visibility.

I freak the fuck out on approach to Midway in Chicago though. There are tough approaches around the world. There's no margin of error at Midway with its short runways, no emergency landing area like DEN for example in a field. Pilot makes an error in judgement and you're dead. I wanna say it's a top 10 dangerous airport worldwide. I know San Diego is with that approach. Busiest single runway commercial airport in the world I believe and an awful approach slope without hitting houses/buildings.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/airlines-triple-pay-for-pilots-double-for-flight-attendants-amid-widespread-cancellations?itm_source=parsely-api&utm_campaign=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_source=patrick.net&utm_content=daily

Airlines Triple Pay For Pilots, Double For Flight Attendants Amid Widespread Cancellations
By Ben Zeisloft
Jan 1, 2022 DailyWire.com

... AND here I was thinking it was due to some upcoming Vaxx mandates that the pilots hate.

1,000 pfft.

Now it's 2,000!

https://www.ntd.com/nearly-2000-flights-canceled-sunday-amid-covid-19-staffing-issues-snowstorm_721868.html?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_campaign=patrick.net

"Staffing issues" means they told pilots etc TAKE THIS EXPERIMENTAL INJECTION OR YOU'RE FIRED!

The Taliban taught China Joe everything he needs to know about abandoning people in airports.

Patrick says

1,000 pfft.

Now it's 2,000!

Legit almost everyone has covid. Hyperbolic, but sooooo many people I know have it. This wave will clear up in 2 weeks and it will get back to somewhat normal as winter break is basically over tomorrow for most people. No family gatherings, sitting in a house for 5 hours after traveling across the country.

They need to change testing policies. If you don't feel sick, don't get tested. Don't test once a week for no reason. You could test for any contagious disease weekly and shut the world down overnight. Everyone is going to get Covid.

Major Snow storm now. So if you were waiting for thing to clear up, prepare to wait longer!

We got a car rental that I swear was turned around immediately after arriving from Texas with zero prep and tried to exchange it in Tucson. None of the rental places had an SUV, was told it was because of all the flight cancellations.

NuttBoxer says

We got a car rental that I swear was turned around immediately after arriving from Texas with zero prep and tried to exchange it in Tucson. None of the rental places had an SUV, was told it was because of all the flight cancellations.

Rental car places sold a lot of cars off during covid not realizing chip shortages and new car manufacturing would be fucked for a while. Rental car companies had idle cars because travel crashed, not generating revenue and then people getting stimulus so sold them off #CarInflation.

It will be at least 2 years before it normalizes. Rented in Tampa and Ft. Myers recently and there were no cars in the garage basically. I don't think people really understand how f'd up the supply chain is. We're still waiting on parts for the Sequoia repair. That got hit 4 weeks ago. My car just burned through a wheel bearing and is in the shop today. Wife can use a Tacoma from work, but that thing is beaten up. Want to get back to normal car life. It's annoying. 1st world problems, oh well.

WookieMan says

NuttBoxer says

We got a car rental that I swear was turned around immediately after arriving from Texas with zero prep and tried to exchange it in Tucson. None of the rental places had an SUV, was told it was because of all the flight cancellations.

Rental car places sold a lot of cars off during covid not realizing chip shortages and new car manufacturing would be fucked for a while. Rental car companies had idle cars because travel crashed, not generating revenue and then people getting stimulus so sold them off #CarInflation.

It will be at least 2 years before it normalizes. Rented in Tampa and Ft. Myers recently and there were no cars in the garage basically. I don't think people really understand how f'd up the supply chain is. We're still waiting on parts for the Sequoia repair. That got hit 4 weeks ago. My car just burned through a wheel bearing and is in the shop today. Wife ca...

What's worse the idiot MBAs sold off all these cars into a crashed market, getting much less then normal rate for them. They would've been much better off simply holding on to ther car inventory until travel recovered or at least until used car prices soared like they did.

FuckCCP89 says

What's worse the idiot MBAs sold off all these cars into a crashed market, getting much less then normal rate for them. They would've been much better off simply holding on to ther car inventory until travel recovered or at least until used car prices soared like they did.

Yep.

Like the Greedy-Ass top management at the airlines (and Boeing) pissing away their rainy day funds by gorging on stock buybacks then crying like babies to the federal government for handouts.

FuckCCP89 says

What's worse the idiot MBAs sold off all these cars into a crashed market, getting much less then normal rate for them. They would've been much better off simply holding on to ther car inventory until travel recovered or at least until used car prices soared like they did.

Yeah all the car rental and car manufacturers seriously suffer from short term thinking.

I may be fucked, I’m flying out from Baja California to the USA in a month.

Doesn't seem like those shots are making people healthier does it?

clambo says

I may be fucked, I’m flying out from Baja California to the USA in a month.

Fucked how?

WookieMan says

I don't think people really understand how f'd up the supply chain is. We're still waiting on parts for the Sequoia repair. That got hit 4 weeks ago. My car just burned through a wheel bearing and is in the shop today.

Can confirm, my wholesale suppliers in the auto parts business are constantly OUT OF SHIT. Basic things, like a grocery store being out of all the milk, eggs, bread, beef, and chicken all at the same time. I saw 5 tailgate lift supports that fit a couple of model years of one make of wagon come in to a supplier and sell out in 15 minutes. Oil out of stock, like an entire brand, all size containers and viscosities. Parts commonly purchased together that must be sourced from 2 companies and 3 warehouses for one job. "Good" brands out of stock everywhere, supplies getting dicey on the "crap" brands too.

Was looking at sawmills again, most of the companies still publishing 2-24 month delivery times after placing deposit.

The grocery store has had conspicuously empty or stretched shelves lately too. These have been kind of "rolling" shortages, like one week the water and sports drinks, and the chicken, are empty. The next week it's the mayo and condiments aisle and the dairy coolers. The "dry soup" section (ramen et al) has been a mostly empty shambles for at least 2 months, like a toy store when the first employees arrive to open and straighten back up Dec. 26.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/travelers-endure-more-1-300-173411214.html

Travelers endure more than 1,300 domestic flights cancellations over the weekend

Southwest pilot: Vaccine mandate at root of airline problems.

“The question is, why are we having a staffing shortage? I believe it’s because of the COVID vaccines — they’re still requiring the vaccination for all new applicants and if the new applicants say they’re not going to get vaccinated, their application is passed over,” said Tom Bogart, who is also a Southwest pilot.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert/southwest-pilot-vaccine-mandate-at-root-of-airline-problems/