patrick.net

Eric Holder says

Ukraine is most def not in that new incarnation of Warsaw Pact. The dead giveaway would be the obscure fact that they are in an active military conflict with Russia.

Neither are Georgia and Azerbaijan AFAIK
shows Sorcha Faal suffers from serious lack of competency and inability to use web searches

Ceffer says

Anyway, Russia probably right that this is standard CIA/MI6 type meddling.

Of course, everything in the world is CIA/MIA/Zionist meddling. It can't be Russians or Chinese meddling, can it, or two Kazakh factions fighting (like it was in Kyrgyzstan)?

Quite interestingly, it appears that while most stores/banks/etc are looted, those belonging to two of the Kazakh oligarchs are quite safe in this mayhem.

Bd6r says

Ceffer says

Anyway, Russia probably right that this is standard CIA/MI6 type meddling.

Of course, everything in the world is CIA/MIA/Zionist meddling. It can't be Russians or Chinese meddling, can it, or two Kazakh factions fighting (like it was in Kyrgyzstan)?

Sure it COULD be Chinese or Russian, but I have seen the US Federal government lie about why it's been blowing up 7 fucking nations now.

If the people in charge of the United States want us to believe them, they could start by not fucking telling us ridiculous lies. Hell, the WEST has to stop telling us ridiculous lies.

I remember when the US was claiming that Russia was invading Ukraine and the pictures they posted of "proof" were actually a Ukraine/Russian joint military practice operation a year before. I remember when the UK claimed that Sergei Skripal was poisoned by a MADE UP nerve agent that doesn't exist. The brilliant plan was to smear a NERVE AGENT on a door in the hopes that Sergei would touch it and supposedly he did, but he survived. Oh and Ukraine had a "revolution" that somehow Victoria Nuland knew was going to lead to the ouster of Yanukovych a month before the revolution.

If the US government wants us to believe them, they have to be fucking credible for once.

Now I don't know how much the Russians or Chinese lie in their foreign policy objectives, but I sure as fuck know how much the US lies. Iraq, Libya, Syria - all COMPLETE fucking lies, and they are so fucking stupid they are surprised nobody believes them now. The US government has ZERO credibility, and it's their own goddamned fault.

Bd6r says

Quite interestingly, it appears that while most stores/banks/etc are looted, those belonging to two of the Kazakh oligarchs are quite safe in this mayhem.

That's how I feel about Kazakhstan - that's how 99.9% of Americans do. I don't know what is going on there, and I'm fucking positive that whatever my government CLAIMS is going on there is a FUCKING LIE because they ALWAYS lie.

richwicks says

Bd6r says

Ceffer says

Anyway, Russia probably right that this is standard CIA/MI6 type meddling.

Of course, everything in the world is CIA/MIA/Zionist meddling. It can't be Russians or Chinese meddling, can it, or two Kazakh factions fighting (like it was in Kyrgyzstan)?

Sure it COULD be Chinese or Russian, but I have seen the US Federal government lie about why it's been blowing up 7 fucking nations now.

If the people in charge of the United States want us to believe them, they could start by not fucking telling us ridiculous lies. Hell, the WEST has to stop telling us ridiculous lies.

I remember when the US was claiming that Russia was invading Ukraine and the pictures the posted were traced to a Ukraine/Russian joint military practice operation a year before.

So Russia is NOT invading Ukraine and the proof is some misappropriated pictures? Shall we ignore the actual land grabs based on that solid "evidence"? The picture completely cancels the fact of occupation and annexion of, say, Crimea, is it what you are trying to say here?

FuckCCP89 says

So Russia is NOT invading Ukraine and the proof is some misappropriated pictures?

This is what satellite imagery looks like today for common public use:

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=e6b24c0e-ccec-46b4-8119-a0e47fcbf4d3&cp=44.148867%7E-75.316562&lvl=19&style=h&imgid=e6b71169-2e28-497d-977b-4ae1926389dc&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027&source=patrick.net

If Russia actually invaded Ukraine, my government could do better than to fucking lie to the entire nation. If my government didn't have to fucking lie to me, why would they be fucking lying to me? Got any theories on that?

FuckCCP89 says

The picture completely cancels the fact of occupation and annexion of, say, Crimea, is it what you are trying to say here?

The first asshole that the US installed to control Ukraine was some fanatical lunatic that was openly, and repeatedly, talking about killing Russians and egging on Ukrainians to do just that. Crimea is something like 98% ethnic Russian, and so a very (very) hasty resolution was drawn up that gave people a choice of either becoming an independent nation, or part of Russia again since Crimea was only part of Ukraine because Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine because he didn't think they USSR would ever fall.

It didn't matter anyhow, because Russia was sure as fuck not going to give up their ONLY warm water port in the world which is in Crimea.

In any case, the real purpose of the overthrow of Ukraine was to make certain Ukraine became indebted to the ECB instead of Russia, to stall (or even kill) the Nordstream II, to hopefully take out Russia's warm water port, to force Ukraine to be part of the EU, and to push NATO further East because the fucking LUNATICS of this nation are willing to start WWIII because the Cold War kept the US dollar stable and they think a new Cold War will extend its lifetime.

Every war is a fucking banker's war. We were good buddies with the Russian Federation until Putin came into power and them put their central bank under the government's thumb. Technically Russia's central bank is independent, but only technically. The state completely controls it. This differs from our situation and Europe's situation - those banks control our governments, entirely.

richwicks says

If Russia actually invaded Ukraine

1. Martians invaded Crimea, didn't they?

2. Please see Russian semi-state media showing Russian paratroopers captured 20-30 km inside Ukraine.

https://www.rt.com/news/182812-russian-soldiers-detained-border/?source=patrick.net

richwicks says

That's how I feel about Kazakhstan - that's how 99.9% of Americans do.

You do seem to care as you do comment. As for myself, I care enough for "academic interest", not more.

You seem to believe Russian lies over American ones.

What's your best guess, Bdr6? Nobody seems to have much of a handle on means, motive or opportunity.

It seems the West already got much of what they wanted aka open season criminal enterprise etc. for the intels, and a handle on Khaz's resources. With Hunter and Joe canoodling with the oligarchs, it didn't look much like 'From Russia With Love'. Does Russia want to install its own government? Or just a populace tired of the bullshit?

The other element to this is how long the Russia-China cooperation in Central Asia will last.

That area is beyond my ken, but I'm sure it's breaking down. Russia and China look at each other and see Mongols.

I'd be happy if I was getting a "Fuck Central Asia and Who cares about the Donbass Rust Belt" from Biden.

It's more like a kind of fearful unwillingness to engage with either China OR Russia at all. Almost like Obama's Third Administration knows why and how their toast got buttered.

When you look at the retarded inept retreat from Afghanistan, and the lack of any activity (such as Diplomatic Overtures to resolve the situation or promises of aid, even non-lethal) in Ukraine, it looks more like Fear and Uncomfort over engagement rather than Benign Neglect.

Seems some are saying the precipitating event wasn't gas prices (nobody really thought so) but banks wouldn't allow withdrawals without vaccine passports. This guy says that the politicians and a lot of police and soldiers have attempted to flee, but I am not familiar with his degree of Woo. Impressive that by sheer weight of bodies they can go after them like this. I hope they catch the leaders they are after. This would have to give pause to the NWO and Great Reset Nazi/Kommie crap.:

Bd6r says

richwicks says

If Russia actually invaded Ukraine

1. Martians invaded Crimea, didn't they?

2. Please see Russian semi-state media showing Russian paratroopers captured 20-30 km inside Ukraine.

Who cares? I don't care if Russia goes to war with Ukraine. Again, this wouldn't be a problem is the US didn't overthrow the Ukrainian government.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

That's how I feel about Kazakhstan - that's how 99.9% of Americans do.

You do seem to care as you do comment. As for myself, I care enough for "academic interest", not more.

You seem to believe Russian lies over American ones.

I care that my stupid fucking maniac government is trying to drag us into yet ANOTHER war that doesn't matter.

That my government, incessantly lies to the public to gain support for US meddling is what pisses me off. My government wouldn't have to lie, if the truth would suffice.

The US is trying to prevent Russia from exporting energy to Europe and place Russia under the thumb of the ECB or the Fed. That's all this bullshit is about and frankly, the Fed is the enemy of everybody in the United States.

richwicks says

Bd6r says

richwicks says

If Russia actually invaded Ukraine

1. Martians invaded Crimea, didn't they?

2. Please see Russian semi-state media showing Russian paratroopers captured 20-30 km inside Ukraine.

Who cares?

We do. Stop spreading bullshit - it contaminates the site.

FuckCCP89 says

richwicks says

Bd6r says

richwicks says

If Russia actually invaded Ukraine

1. Martians invaded Crimea, didn't they?

2. Please see Russian semi-state media showing Russian paratroopers captured 20-30 km inside Ukraine.

Who cares?

We do. Stop spreading bullshit - it contaminates the site.

My government does.

WHY?

Why does the US even give a shit if Ukraine WERE taken over entirely by Russia? Say Russia does this, how does this effect Americans and this nation?

You tell me what the US' stake is in this stupid conflict. Explain.

Guess we know where China stands:
https://t.me/c/1315127140/43337?source=patrick.net

Russia supposedly sent in para-troopers, so no Communist support. Either this is organic, or Five Eyes backed.

Ceffer says

What's your best guess, Bdr6? Nobody seems to have much of a handle on means, motive or opportunity.

@Ceffer,
I am not quite sure. This caught my attention because one reason for detonation was forced vaccinations, and another was high gas prices. Seems similar to here and Western Europe. Having said that, discontent is definitely helped by some actors, either outside, or factions inside Kazakhstan. We'll know who they are after all this settles down. Currently the losing faction is one of former Pres. Nazarbayev. Plus it appears that islamists, who were suppressed, are now on rise.

richwicks says

My government does.

WHY?

Why does the US even give a shit if Ukraine WERE taken over entirely by Russia? Say Russia does this, how does this effect Americans and this nation?

You tell me what the US' stake is in this stupid conflict. Explain.

That is a different issue from saying that Russia does not invade Ukraine, which you have repeatedly claimed before, and which is demonstrably false.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

My government does.

WHY?

Why does the US even give a shit if Ukraine WERE taken over entirely by Russia? Say Russia does this, how does this effect Americans and this nation?

You tell me what the US' stake is in this stupid conflict. Explain.

That is a different issue from saying that Russia does not invade Ukraine, which you have repeatedly claimed before, and which is demonstrably false.

I really don't know if they did or not.

What I do know, is that my government has NO credibility at all. I know, with absolute certainty, my government fucking lies like a dog, and that hurts me to say - I like dogs. But I don't like my fucking lying government.

If they want me to believe them, all they need to do is

1) stop telling me blatantly obvious lies.
2) take the assholes in government that have told us fucking obvious lies to GET US TO START A WAR, and try them for TREASON, because that is what they are engaging in
3) and start telling the truth.

Until then, my government can go FUCK OFF.

NOTHING THEY SAY IS CREDIBLE. Is the FSB more trustworthy and reliable than the CIA, FBI, and NSA? Well, it couldn't be LESS trustworthy.

My government, as far as I'm fucking concerned, is entirely illegitimate. They probably did 9/11, they certainly have lied us into at LEAST 3 wars, and they are just a bunch of fucking criminals. The latest example is that Jizzlane Maxwell was found guilty of child trafficking and sexual exploitation - but all of her clients are UNNAMED. Fuck my fucking government. ANYTHING those mother fuckers want to do, I'm against at this point because NOTHING they've done in foreign policy for the last 2 fucking solid decades has helped me, you, this nation, or anybody in any way.


original link


If these scurrilous motherfuckers told me water was wet, I'd have to go draw some water and check. It is at this point safer to assume any claim they make, and I mean ANY claim they make, is a lie, because they lie FAR MORE OFTEN than they tell the truth.

richwicks says

NOTHING THEY SAY IS CREDIBLE. Is the FSB more trustworthy and reliable than the CIA, FBI, and NSA? Well, it couldn't be LESS trustworthy.

They all are the same.

richwicks says

I really don't know if they did or not.

Russians admitted to it, but you keep clinging to your belief that they did not invade. Facts don't matter.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I really don't know if they did or not.

Russians admitted to it, but you keep clinging to your belief that they did not invade.

No, Russia claimed the soldiers were lost on patrol, they were arrested without incident,

https://www.rt.com/news/182812-russian-soldiers-detained-border/?source=patrick.net

Bd6r says

Facts don't matter.

Facts matter certainly. But my government refuses to give the public facts, and instead produces a steady and unrelenting stream of lies.

That's why my government can go fuck itself when they are trying to drum up support for another fucking war, and this time, with a nuclear super power. Fuck them.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

NOTHING THEY SAY IS CREDIBLE. Is the FSB more trustworthy and reliable than the CIA, FBI, and NSA? Well, it couldn't be LESS trustworthy.

They all are the same.

You DO understand that I don't care if the Russian government lies to the Russian people, but I DO care when the US government lies to the American people? And you understand WHY that's the case?

Right?

I'm an American, and when my government lies to me, they are lying to the country, and when they are lying to the country, it can ONLY be because they are acting in an illegitimate manner.

richwicks says

No, Russia claimed the soldiers were lost on patrol, they were arrested without incident,

Accidentally lost 20-30 km inside Ukraine? Highly trained paratroopers? With satellite-based GPS systems? If you believe they were there by "mistake", I have a bridge in New York to sell you..

richwicks says

But my government refuses to give the public facts, and instead produces a steady and unrelenting stream of lies.

Of course they do, we all know that. But so do all other governments and we can't trust anyone.

richwicks says

You DO understand that I don't care if the Russian government lies to the Russian people, but I DO care when the US government lies to the American people? And you understand WHY that's the case?

Yes I do. But you should not transmit lies by Russian government as well. That takes away from your credibility. Everything has to be questioned.

richwicks says

FuckCCP89 says

richwicks says

Bd6r says

richwicks says

If Russia actually invaded Ukraine

1. Martians invaded Crimea, didn't they?

2. Please see Russian semi-state media showing Russian paratroopers captured 20-30 km inside Ukraine.

Who cares?

We do. Stop spreading bullshit - it contaminates the site.

My government does.

WHY?

Why does the US even give a shit if Ukraine WERE taken over entirely by Russia?

Stop running away from admitting you tried to gaslight us wrt simple and well-known facts. You deserve your lying government, liar.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

No, Russia claimed the soldiers were lost on patrol, they were arrested without incident,

Accidentally lost 20-30 km inside Ukraine?

Certainly they could be lying, odd that only 2 were captured though. Could be spies.

The point I keep repeatedly making is my government is DEFINITELY lying. They NEVER fucking tell the truth. 2 soldiers makes a war now?

Bd6r says

If you believe they were there by "mistake", I have a bridge in New York to sell you..

Why just a bridge? Sell me a war in Iraq, or Libya, or Syria, or Ukraine. That's what the fucking traitors that control my country are trying to do. Why go so small on a fraud, let's kill 100's of thousands, if not millions - maybe it can be BILLIONS this time. Nuclear war can really do some awesome things!

Bd6r says

richwicks says

But my government refuses to give the public facts, and instead produces a steady and unrelenting stream of lies.

Of course they do, we all know that. But so do all other governments and we can't trust anyone.

Well, you've heard the saying "a well informed public is a prerequisite for democracy" - well, if they won't allow the public to be properly informed, they don't deserve any fucking support, do they?

We're not in a democracy, we're not in a republic, this is an oligarchical feud which win or lose, has NOTHING to do with us.

FuckCCP89 says

We do. Stop spreading bullshit - it contaminates the site.

My government does.

WHY?

Why does the US even give a shit if Ukraine WERE taken over entirely by Russia?

Stop running away from admitting you tried to gaslight us wrt simple and well-known facts. You deserve your lying government, liar.

Look, if there's a stake in the conflict in Ukraine for the people of the United States - tell me what it is.

If not, who the fuck cares what Russia is doing in Ukraine?

My issue, is my fucking asshole dickhead government is trying to get people to support another fucking goddamned conflict, and this time with Russia, and you seem peachy keen with that. Well, if you want to do that, I'll personally buy you a ticket to go to Ukraine, with any weaponry you want, and you get your fucking head blown off and it will be one less person being suckered into being a mindless propagandist for ANOTHER fucking war that will only hurt the United States, whether they win or lose the conflict.

I'm fucking tired of these wars. Why are you fucking jerking off and shoving your vibrator up your asshole in anticipation of ANOTHER conflict? I'm sick and tired of useful idiot warmongers and chickenhawks. I'm sick and tired of it. Everybody with two braincells to rub together is.

Our enemies aren't foreign, they are domestic. Too bad that oath that all US servicemen take, is just something they read off to get a job. They sure as fuck don't believe in it.

richwicks says

Certainly they could be lying, odd that only 2 were captured though. Could be spies.

it was 10, I believe.

richwicks says

Well, you've heard the saying "a well informed public is a prerequisite for democracy" - well, if they won't allow the public to be properly informed, they don't deserve any fucking support, do they?

no argument here

richwicks says

My issue, is my fucking asshole dickhead government is trying to get people to support another fucking goddamned conflict, and this time with Russia, and you seem peachy keen with that. Well, if you want to do that, I'll personally buy you a ticket to go to Ukraine, with any weaponry you want, and you get your fucking head blown off and it will be one less person being suckered into being a mindless propagandist for ANOTHER fucking war that will only hurt the United States, whether they win or lose the conflict.

I'm fucking tired of these wars. Why are you fucking jerking off and shoving your vibrator up your asshole in anticipation of ANOTHER conflict?

Show me where I said that US should go to war with Russia over Ukraine, and stop swearing - this shows you have no other arguments.

Another external actor may be Turkey, as the "front for liberation of Kazakhstan" was posted on pro-panTurkic website:

https://www.tamgaturk.com/kazakistan-kurtulus-cephesi-kuruldu-iddiasi/42737/?source=patrick.net

And one more potential external player: China has offered help to subdue the uprising via Shanghai Organization for cooperation. Note that Uyghurs are related to Kazakhs.

This mess becomes less and less clear.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

My issue, is my fucking asshole dickhead government is trying to get people to support another fucking goddamned conflict, and this time with Russia, and you seem peachy keen with that. Well, if you want to do that, I'll personally buy you a ticket to go to Ukraine, with any weaponry you want, and you get your fucking head blown off and it will be one less person being suckered into being a mindless propagandist for ANOTHER fucking war that will only hurt the United States, whether they win or lose the conflict.

I'm fucking tired of these wars. Why are you fucking jerking off and shoving your vibrator up your asshole in anticipation of ANOTHER conflict?

Show me where I said that US should go to war with Russia over Ukraine

Don't you realize that all this bullshit media focus on Ukraine is in order to set the stage for war?

The US government couldn't care less if every single Ukrainian was killed. They don't give a damn, they are trying to setup the stage for another fucking war, and this time, with RUSSIA.

Why do you think our INTELLIGENCE agencies lied for 5 years about "Russian Collusion"? The Open Skies treaty was just withdrawn. The US left it on November 22, 2020. Russia withdrew on December 2021.

Bd6r says

and stop swearing - this shows you have no other arguments.

It's frustration. Can't you see you're just a propaganda pawn? You don't realize that you're promoting a war with Russia even inadvertently? What does the "The Russians are EVIL" parroting accomplish? What's the end game?

Of course the Russian government is evil, EVERY government is evil. That's not why the US is setting up for a war against Russia but that's PRECISELY what the Neocons, our nation's WORST disaster in my lifetime, is setting this country up for - and if we go to war with Russia, everybody is on the front line because it will be nuclear in short order.

Goddamned tired of the lunatics that run this nation, and the serfs doing their work for them, for free. If you were a paid propagandist, at least I could understand that.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Certainly they could be lying, odd that only 2 were captured though. Could be spies.

it was 10, I believe.

Oh! 10 - then it IS a war..

Remember what our government claimed - that Russia invaded Ukraine on the Eastern side, and they were hiding their causalities by toting around mobile crematoriums. That's what Bozo the Clowno Government claimed.

I'm sick of this stupidity. I'm tired of it.

Obligatory:

richwicks says

Don't you realize that all this bullshit media focus on Ukraine is in order to set the stage for war?

So? I don't listen to US media.
richwicks says

It's frustration. Can't you see you're just a propaganda pawn?

I am not - as I said, I don't listen to MSM. However, you can't accept an obvious FACT that Russia is an aggressor in Ukraine. If we accept that as a FACT, it does not mean we have to go to war with Russia. It is a matter of being consistent and truthful.
richwicks says

You don't realize that you're promoting a war with Russia even inadvertently? What does the "The Russians are EVIL" parroting accomplish?

I don't see how being truthful means facilitating a war. We should lie in order to prevent a war, like you apparently do to yourself?
richwicks says

If you were a paid propagandist, at least I could understand that.

So I should lie or pretend in order to not be an unpaid propagandist?

You were shown to be factually wrong here, and you just can't accept it. Russia DID invade Ukraine - you denied it repeatedly - and the fact they did does not mean we should bomb Russia - which is another issue or connection you can't comprehend for some reason. You also claimed that I support war with Russia, and I have never said that.

richwicks says

Oh! 10 - then it IS a war..

And they ended up there accidentally? You seriously believe that? Also, it is not the only case, it is the most well-known case.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Don't you realize that all this bullshit media focus on Ukraine is in order to set the stage for war?

So? I don't listen to US media.

You're dutifully repeating US State Department and government propaganda. That's the same thing as US media. You might as well be taking all your talking points from Operation Mockingbird - that was revealed in 1975 - do you think it ended when it was merely exposed?

Bd6r says

richwicks says

It's frustration. Can't you see you're just a propaganda pawn?

I am not - as I said, I don't listen to MSM. However, you can't accept an obvious FACT that Russia is an aggressor in Ukraine.

Russia has a strategic interest in Ukraine. The weren't aggressors in Ukraine until the United States overthrew Ukraine.

Do you disagree with this?

If you don't, which country bears responsibility for the current conflict?

I don't know what Russia is doing in Ukraine, but I know my government lies incessantly. My, correct, position is that whatever the US government CLAIMS is going on there, is false and that makes me 99% correct.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

You don't realize that you're promoting a war with Russia even inadvertently? What does the "The Russians are EVIL" parroting accomplish?

I don't see how being truthful means facilitating a war. We should lie in order to prevent a war, like you apparently do to yourself?

Again, I don't know what is true, and neither do you. I'm, again, pointing out the US government is actively, very actively, producing propaganda to start a war. Operation Mockingbird isn't limited to US "news" sources either. Agents are on both sides. For all we know, the Russians that were "caught" are US intelligence assets. Hitler did the Gleiwitz Incident in order to set the stage for war against Poland. Germany staged an attack on German radio station, pretending to be Polish insurgents, dressed up a German prisoner in a Polish uniform, and murdered him to make the false flag look more convincing.

Every war begins with a lie.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

If you were a paid propagandist, at least I could understand that.

So I should lie or pretend in order to not be an unpaid propagandist?

I think you should be more cautious of what you assume to be "true information".

Russia was long time partners with Ukraine, and the coup of the United States there left assets behind I'm certain and it was a loss of a strategic partner. Imagine if Russia overthrew Mexico. What would the United States' reaction be?

Bd6r says

You were shown to be factually wrong here, and you just can't accept it.

I'll only, possibly, know if I'm, wrong YEARS from now.
Bd6r says

Russia DID invade Ukraine - you denied it repeatedly

Yeah, 10 people are proof...

What an invasion.

Gee, seems like some satellite pictures would be more convincing, I'm actually surprised the State Department didn't get some CGI teams to produce them.

richwicks says

Russia has a strategic interest in Ukraine.

And US has (had) a strategic interest in Middle East because oil. Does that justify invasions and meddling? If no, then why should Ukraine be different?
richwicks says

You're dutifully repeating US State Department and government propaganda.

And you are dutifully repeating Russian propaganda, with little knowledge about what goes on.
richwicks says

My, correct, position is that whatever the US government CLAIMS is going on there, is false and that makes me 99% correct.

By same default, what Russian government claims there is false as well. If all of that is false, then what is going on?
richwicks says

Yeah, 10 people are proof...

What an invasion.

How many soldiers would convince you of invasion, and where should that information come from for you to believe in? Putin? You seem to be inconvincible in this regard. What were 10 CAUGHT soldiers doing 22 km in Ukraine? If they caught 10, how many were not caught?

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Russia has a strategic interest in Ukraine.

And US has (had) a strategic interest in Middle East because oil. Does that justify invasions and meddling? If no, then why should Ukraine be different?

No, but it's understandable. The US has NO interest in Ukraine, well no legitimate one. They are blowing up the Middle East to steal oil to supply to Europe, and Russia is a competitor to that plan.

I don't care when Russia makes stupid mistakes. Not my problem, I care when MY nation makes stupid mistakes. My nation is at war in the Middle East and going up against Russia for a few MULTINATIONAL oil corporations. Our government is working for them. They are traitors.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

You're dutifully repeating US State Department and government propaganda.

And you are dutifully repeating Russian propaganda, with little knowledge about what goes on.

Yes, because Russian propaganda is everywhere. Well, fuck, they are the ones that sunk the Dizzy Star Wars films:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/03/so-did-russian-bots-try-bring-down-star-wars-after-furor-man-who-authored-study-says-not-exactly/?source=patrick.net

Oh, and let's not forget, they controlled our last prezdidient!

Bd6r says

richwicks says

My, correct, position is that whatever the US government CLAIMS is going on there, is false and that makes me 99% correct.

By same default, what Russian government claims there is false as well. If all of that is false, then what is going on?

I don't care what the Russian government does. Again, no government is anything more than a mafia. The Russian government is AT LEAST acting in the interests of Russian military assets and strategic position. The US government is working on behalf of a few multinational corporations and ridiculously wealthy sociopaths in the energy industry. It doesn't help this nation at all, in any way. US involvement HARMS this nation, and its people.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Yeah, 10 people are proof...

What an invasion.

How many soldiers would convince you of invasion, and where should that information come from for you to believe in? Putin? You seem to be inconvincible in this regard.

How about a 3 month long "police action" in which they bomb the shit out of the area. I mean, that's not considered an "invasion" when the United States does that to Libya though, but I'm willing to take what the United States DOESN'T consider an invasion when the United States does an invasion.

That seem fair? I'm not very happy with using different definitions depending on which nation is doing it but I'll give them a pass this time..

Bd6r says

What were 10 CAUGHT soldiers doing 22 km in Ukraine? If they caught 10, how many were not caught?

No idea what they were doing, have no idea if it was 22 km in (that's only 13 miles), but no cities were leveled as far as I know, there's been no land seizure, there's no Russian version of ISIS showing up..

richwicks says

there's been no land seizure

Other than Crimea, of course. Another factual error.

richwicks says

How about a 3 month long "police action" in which they bomb the shit out of the area. I mean, that's not considered an "invasion" when the United States does that to Libya though, but I'm willing to take what the United States DOESN'T consider an invasion when the United States does an invasion.

I don't know why you are arguing with me about that, invasion of Libya was criminal and stupid. Same with invasion of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

richwicks says

there's no Russian version of ISIS showing up..

Yes, there is. Igor Girkin irregular militia is (was) very similar.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

there's been no land seizure

Other than Crimea, of course. Another factual error.

Crimea wasn't seized. I've already told you what happened.

The lunatic that the United States installed was a virulent Russia-phobe that was openly calling for violence against Russians. Crimea is 98% ethnic Russians who speak Russian. A referendum was hastily drawn up offering the Crimeans to either become an independent nation, or to become part of the Russian federation. The result was to rejoin the Russian federation.

PART of the reason the United States overthrew Ukraine, besides making them dependent on the ECB, forcing them to eventually become part of the EU, extending NATO further east, killing the Nordstream II (or at least delaying it), was to deprive Russia of their only warm water port in Crimea.

Russia didn't march in and take over the government of Crimea and kill citizens that refused. That didn't happen. Crimea realized they had to get the fuck out of there.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

How about a 3 month long "police action" in which they bomb the shit out of the area. I mean, that's not considered an "invasion" when the United States does that to Libya though, but I'm willing to take what the United States DOESN'T consider an invasion when the United States does an invasion.

I don't know why you are arguing with me about that, invasion of Libya was criminal and stupid. Same with invasion of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

Yeah, when the Russians do an invasion (which by the US' OWN STANDARDS is NOT an invasion) it doesn't kill several hundred thousand people or lead to an unending civil war.

The lunatics in power in Ukraine now, are still Russiaphobes, who actively call for violence against ethnic Russians. As a result, the further East you go, the more violence you see, because the further east you got, the more Russian it is.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

there's no Russian version of ISIS showing up..

Yes, there is. Igor Girkin irregular militia is (was) very similar.

I've have to look it up.

My point, is none of this bullshit would be happening if the United States didn't have a coup d'etat in Ukraine - and they did. None of this bullshit would be happening if the fucking assholes that run our fucking country would stop fucking around with other nations.

richwicks says

Crimea is 98% ethnic Russians who speak Russian

False
It has a relatively large population of Crimean tatars. You again show a complete lack of knowledge about that part of the world.
richwicks says

virulent Russia-phobe that was openly calling for violence against Russians.

Yes, he was going to gas 6 million Russians/sarc off. Another fake news.
richwicks says

are still Russiaphobes, who actively call for violence against ethnic Russians

I'd like to see where their pres. Zelensky has called for violence against ethnic Russians.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Crimea is 98% ethnic Russians who speak Russian

False
It has a relatively large population of Crimean tatars. You again show a complete lack of knowledge about that part of the world.

Fine, I've been misinformed. It's around 60%

Bd6r says

richwicks says

virulent Russia-phobe that was openly calling for violence against Russians.

Yes, he was going to gas 6 million Russians/sarc off. Another fake news.

Possible it's fake news.

What I know for certain though, is that Ukraine didn't have a revolution.

You are complaining about the RESULTS of the CIA coup of Ukraine, I'm complaining about the CIA coup. You're talking about effects, I'm talking about cause.

All this was initiated by the United States. NONE Of it would be happening if it wasn't for the United States. But you complain about Russia. This is extremely disingenuous on your part. If Crimea has ACTUALLY had a revolution, I'd be on your side, but they didn't. They had a US meat puppet installed. The United States, ONCE AGAIN, has denied Ukrainians the right to self determination. I'm fucking sick and tired of our government, violating basic human rights and them demanding I support this. The will do this to us as well, they ARE doing it to us.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

are still Russiaphobes, who actively call for violence against ethnic Russians

I'd like to see where their pres. Zelensky has called for violence against ethnic Russians.

It was Oleksandr Turchynov, he was the first US puppet although I'm certain they all are at this point.

It seems to be shaping up that it may have been a fake 'color revolution' by Russia to allow Russian troops to be brought in under guise of mutual defense pact. Russia does not want the 'real' /Soros type color revolutions to succeed any more in the buffer countries, as in Ukraine. They wanted N out (playing up to Dem globalists/pedos/traffickers/ money launderers/Soros organized criminals etc.) and they wanted T to be a Russian obligated strong man, with N finally ousted from the intel agencies and security forces. Speculating speculators continue to speculate.

Interesting that comments were made that rioters were being given stimulant drinks and vodka. Nothing worse than a drunken, stoned Mongol?

https://t.me/drue86/13255?source=patrick.net