patrick.net

This is basically what an epidemiologist (forgot his name) said in an interview on NPR in Feb or Mar 2020: all epidemics burned themselves out before vaccines could make any difference.

After having my eyes opened with this plandemic, I don't think I'll get another vaccine or booster in my lifetime. I went into the doctor several months back and she was on me about getting my TDAP booster which is supposed to be every 10 years. If you look at what the UK does, they only boost every 30 years.

I later read that doctors in the US are paid to get vaccines into people, so it's clear their motivation is monetary vs science.

This is not the first time, or only source I've heard this from, that vaccines came along after diseases were on the decline. If you go through my posts, you'll see an interesting study that was done recently on overall health of vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

Of course the traditional vaccines work, but they usually came after the epidemic burnt out. There's not a lot of problems getting a booster of a traditinal vaccine every 10-15 years if necessary if you think about how rare that is. It's some dead viral (or bacterial) strain(s) and sometimes some adjuvant. I stay away from the yearly vaccines or less, never took flu (covid is not a vaccine) shots. The problem is mainly the vaccine assault on kids/babies in early years and unnecesary
and/or dangerous shit like covid, flu (debatable), hpv, hep b.

mell says

Of course the traditional vaccines work

How do you know? I mean if there's no correlation between the vaccine and a reduction in infection, and vaccines are never developed using the scientific principal of a control group, how could anyone ever know that?

NuttBoxer says

mell says

Of course the traditional vaccines work

How do you know? I mean if there's no correlation between the vaccine and a reduction in infection, and vaccines are never developed using the scientific principal of a control group, how could anyone ever know that?

Epidemics would have come back without vaccines. Look at the flu, a highly mutating virus, where they don't work too well. Most of the viruses (bacteria) we have successful vaccines for don't mutate much or at all.

mell says

Epidemics would have come back without vaccines.

So why haven't we had another Bubonic Plague epidemic? Or the ones listed in the graph that never got a vaccine?

NuttBoxer says

mell says

Of course the traditional vaccines work

How do you know? I mean if there's no correlation between the vaccine and a reduction in infection, and vaccines are never developed using the scientific principal of a control group, how could anyone ever know that?

Why can’t they just do like a closed system test of vaccines in a monkey? I mean microscopes can view antibodies forming and attacking viruses right? Can’t you just capture the Covid virus from someone really sick with it… put it in a test tube and inject into into a bunch of monkeys who are vaxxed and unvaxxed and find out for sure?

BoomAndBustCycle says

Can’t you just capture the Covid virus from someone really sick with it… put it in a test tube and inject into into a bunch of monkeys who are vaxxed and unvaxxed and find out for sure?

Covid does not have a vaccine, it has a gene therapy shot. That definition comes from Moderna, when they applied for funding with DARPA back in 2014.

NuttBoxer says

mell says

Epidemics would have come back without vaccines.

So why haven't we had another Bubonic Plague epidemic? Or the ones listed in the graph that never got a vaccine?

Many of those "plagues" were almost eradicated with enhanced hygiene. These days you usually can only get the plague from fleas or other animals, human to human transmission has pretty much gone extinct with modern hygiene. It today's conditions R0 for the bubonic plague is just barely over 1, covid is what, 2.5 or 3 or so. Also irrc the plague has been caused by yersinia pestis, the same bacteria, since it's discovery. All of the common sanitizers, incl. soap, as well as tried and true antibiotics still work pretty well against it.

NuttBoxer says

BoomAndBustCycle says

Can’t you just capture the Covid virus from someone really sick with it… put it in a test tube and inject into into a bunch of monkeys who are vaxxed and unvaxxed and find out for sure?

Covid does not have a vaccine, it has a gene therapy shot. That definition comes from Moderna, when they applied for funding with DARPA back in 2014.

Semantics.. inject the gene therapy shot into monkeys and do proper testing.

mell says

Many of those "plagues" were almost eradicated with enhanced hygiene. These days you usually can only get the plague from fleas or other animals, human to human transmission has pretty much gone extinct with modern hygiene. It today's conditions R0 for the bubonic plague is just barely over 1, covid is what, 2.5 or 3 or so. Also irrc the plague has been caused by yersinia pestis, the same bacteria, since it's discovery. All of the common sanitizers, incl. soap, as well as tried and true antibiotics still work pretty well against it.

Yeah, hygiene, rather than Medicine, is the main driver of health and increased lifespan.

The real problem of a societal collapse will be Garbagemen not showing up or the water not being treated.

AmericanKulak says

mell says

Many of those "plagues" were almost eradicated with enhanced hygiene. These days you usually can only get the plague from fleas or other animals, human to human transmission has pretty much gone extinct with modern hygiene. It today's conditions R0 for the bubonic plague is just barely over 1, covid is what, 2.5 or 3 or so. Also irrc the plague has been caused by yersinia pestis, the same bacteria, since it's discovery. All of the common sanitizers, incl. soap, as well as tried and true antibiotics still work pretty well against it.

Yeah, hygiene, rather than Medicine, is the main driver of health and increased lifespan.

The real problem of a societal collapse will be Garbagemen not showing up or the water not being treated.

That's the irony. Leftoid retard policies may well bring back bugs from the past.

mell says

Look at the flu, a highly mutating virus, where they don't work too well. Most of the viruses (bacteria) we have successful vaccines for don't mutate much or at all.

Right, I read an article about how vaccines work only when the virus doesn't mutate much or have an animal reservoir. Like smallpox.

But for Wuhan Virus, the vaxx cannot work because the virus mutates very rapidly and there are large animal reservoirs.

Wasn't one of the main arguments - never vaccinate during the pandemic - presented as one proof that Covid's handling is fishy? Wait until it is almost over then do it to ensure it does not come back.

So this is proof that vaccines do work, if used correctly. But it is also proof that they are a scam as OP argues. Depends on how you want to interpret that.

I mean obviously those Covid jabs are not actually vaccines. But further to it - they are being pushed as cures, which are different than vaccines, saying if you already have it and/or recovered then still take the shot.

mell says

Many of those "plagues" were almost eradicated with enhanced hygiene. These days you usually can only get the plague from fleas or other animals, human to human transmission has pretty much gone extinct with modern hygiene. It today's conditions R0 for the bubonic plague is just barely over 1, covid is what, 2.5 or 3 or so. Also irrc the plague has been caused by yersinia pestis, the same bacteria, since it's discovery. All of the common sanitizers, incl. soap, as well as tried and true antibiotics still work pretty well against it.

Exactly. You may want to re-read that sentence at the bottom of those graphs.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Semantics.. inject the gene therapy shot into monkeys and do proper testing.

I understand it may sound picky, but words matter. If they truthfully labeled the shot "gene therapy" and not a vaccine, how many people still take it?

tanked says

Wasn't one of the main arguments - never vaccinate during the pandemic - presented as one proof that Covid's handling is fishy? Wait until it is almost over then do it to ensure it does not come back.

So this is proof that vaccines do work, if used correctly.

Has it ever been proven true? If not there's no proof, it's just a hypothesis that has never truly been tested.

NuttBoxer says

BoomAndBustCycle says

Semantics.. inject the gene therapy shot into monkeys and do proper testing.

I understand it may sound picky, but words matter. If they truthfully labeled the shot "gene therapy" and not a vaccine, how many people still take it?

None. They're not even pushing it as an actual vaccine that they claim it is. They are saying it's both a vaccine and a cure but it is neither.

If they didn't say it is both then large numbers of people would have a perfectly reasonable case to not take it even by their narrative. If it's a cure then if no symptoms, then no need to take it. If it's actually a vaccine then if you already caught it and recovered, or currently have it, then no need to take it. Further if it actually is a vaccine it should only be taken after the pandemic wave has passed to prevent a future wave.

Their goal was to get as many people to take it by any possible means, period, so went with the vaccine label since most never see symptoms. But also snuck in a, it's a miracle, it's also a cure, and you still need it even if you have no symptoms any longer.

There are holes in their story big enough for all the trucks that drove to Ottawa to drive through but so many are too asleep to even look.

NuttBoxer says

mell says

Many of those "plagues" were almost eradicated with enhanced hygiene. These days you usually can only get the plague from fleas or other animals, human to human transmission has pretty much gone extinct with modern hygiene. It today's conditions R0 for the bubonic plague is just barely over 1, covid is what, 2.5 or 3 or so. Also irrc the plague has been caused by yersinia pestis, the same bacteria, since it's discovery. All of the common sanitizers, incl. soap, as well as tried and true antibiotics still work pretty well against it.

Exactly. You may want to re-read that sentence at the bottom of those graphs.

He's agreeing with you, but the main point is that bubonic plague is bacterial not viral, which you have asked about.

Are vaccines against viruses a scam? Maybe. How are we supposed to know if they were never used until it was over - because they never came back? How do we know they were ever going to? From what I understand Ghandi believed they were scams.

It was only with Covid that we ever saw a scramble during a pandemic that so called vaccines would save you and that it was a good idea to dish them out right then and there. But it's not even a valid data point the entire ordeal was a scam down to the shots not even being vaccines, cures, or anything possibly helpful.

NuttBoxer says

words matter

The WHO changed the definition of “epidemic” to accommodate this virus. The CDC changed the definition of “heard Immunity” and “vaccine”.
The very understanding of what constitutes a "case" of a disease was changed to include a symptomless condition of "tested positive".
Somehow these transparent manipulations have completely befuddled a majority of the country.

Robert Sproul says

Somehow these transparent manipulations have completely befuddled a majority of the country.

1/2 the country would believe the moon is made from green cheese if our media and government claimed it.

Tenpoundbass says

One step further:



This “Mandated Vaccine” program was a perfect method for purging the Military, the Police, and the Civil Service, of independent thinkers.

Unfortunately this is very true. People who don't understand the big picture, who are incapable of following life patterns to the their logical conclusion, will likely betray people close to them, and may even think while they are doing so, that their betrayal was morally justified. It's something I've personally been worried about for years now.

richwicks says

Robert Sproul says

Somehow these transparent manipulations have completely befuddled a majority of the country.

1/2 the country would believe the moon is made from green cheese if our media and government claimed it.

Yes, this is very disappointing.

People you thought were rational proved themselves not to be.

porkchopexpress says

After having my eyes opened with this plandemic, I don't think I'll get another vaccine or booster in my lifetime. I went into the doctor several months back and she was on me about getting my TDAP booster which is supposed to be every 10 years. If you look at what the UK does, they only boost every 30 years.

I later read that doctors in the US are paid to get vaccines into people, so it's clear their motivation is monetary vs science.

/agree strongly, except for Shingles. I've seen too many people suffering pain for months from that shit.

NuttBoxer says

I understand it may sound picky, but words matter. If they truthfully labeled the shot "gene therapy" and not a vaccine, how many people still take it?

This type of obfuscation is quite common in medical field. What was developed as Nuclear Magnetic Resonance was renamed Magnetic Resonance Imaging so that population would not be scared to undertake the procedure.

"It does not matter if the vaccines work. What matters if the people believe the vaccines work, even when the vaccines are killing them." Joseph Stalin (LOL attribution).

I think the belief that the vaxx works depends a lot on hatred for Trump.

The more someone hates Trump, the more they believe in the vaxx. Which is ironic, because the vaxx development was under Trump and Trump still claims credit for it.

There was a good quote somewhere like "I don't think masks do anything, but I wear one so that people won't think I'm a Republican." Similar psychology.

The waters part for the barinwashed. How is that Klaus Barbie Scwab and Bill Gates LOVE working out for you?:

At least she can do better with her next child, unless she took the death/sterilization jab herself.

Oh, wait . . .

You can still get measles or whooping cough if you’ve never been exposed to it. That’s why we vaccinate kids to those diseases, because they have a naive immune system and would be dry tinder for that kind of viral fire. Best evidence for this is the third world where such viruses still rampage.

NuttBoxer says

tanked says

Wasn't one of the main arguments - never vaccinate during the pandemic - presented as one proof that Covid's handling is fishy? Wait until it is almost over then do it to ensure it does not come back.

So this is proof that vaccines do work, if used correctly.

Has it ever been proven true? If not there's no proof, it's just a hypothesis that has never truly been tested.

Why did you misquote me? I said right after that, - IN THE EXACT SAME LINE THAT YOU DELETED WHEN QUOTING - it's also proof that they are also a scam, depends on how you want to interpret it. Since I said that afterwards, clearly I'm not saying it is proven true. At least be honest in your methods of truth seeking.

rocketjoe79 says

/agree strongly, except for Shingles. I've seen too many people suffering pain for months from that shit.

How do you know the shot works?

Shaman says

You can still get measles or whooping cough if you’ve never been exposed to it.

Does the shot prevent that? If so, can you provide proof?

tanked says

Why did you misquote me? I said right after that, - IN THE EXACT SAME LINE THAT YOU DELETED WHEN QUOTING - it's also proof that they are also a scam, depends on how you want to interpret it. Since I said that afterwards, clearly I'm not saying it is proven true. At least be honest in your methods of truth seeking.

I use the built-in quote feature. Are you saying it changed your wording?

Regardless of when a shot is administered, there has to be clear evidence that it does something. Without studies that include control groups, and without studies that show the shot was clearly the primary cause of a diseases eradication, there is no proof a vaccine works.

And with all of this, I'm not even going into Bechamp, who's work completely destroys Pasteur's Germ Theory, the very foundation vaccines are built on.

NuttBoxer says

tanked says

Why did you misquote me? I said right after that, - IN THE EXACT SAME LINE THAT YOU DELETED WHEN QUOTING - it's also proof that they are also a scam, depends on how you want to interpret it. Since I said that afterwards, clearly I'm not saying it is proven true. At least be honest in your methods of truth seeking.

I use the built-in quote feature. Are you saying it changed your wording?

Regardless of when a shot is administered, there has to be clear evidence that it does something. Without studies that include control groups, and without studies that show the shot was clearly the primary cause of a diseases eradication, there is no proof a vaccine works.

And with all of this, I'm not even going into Bechamp, who's work completely destroys Pasteur's Germ Theory, the very foundation vaccines are built on.

Looks like it's a misunderstanding. In the same line I point out it's proof they work on one hand, and proof they are useless on the other. It appeared the second part was purposely removed but you say that was automated.

It's probably all a scam is my take but I can't 100% prove that at this point. Like a goalie in a hockey game, just because the other team took no shots on goal, how do I know they wouldn't have if he wasn't standing there. But it strongly suggests that a goalie wouldn't even be needed to win.

tanked says

It appeared the second part was purposely removed but you say that was automated.

I'm saying I selected the portion of your reply I wanted to discuss, but did not modify it after selection. There have been so many lies told about a subject many have so little understanding of, I think it's important we don't give any quarter to unproven medical procedures, even if it's a half-assed endorsement.

And I don't just philosophize on this stuff in case anyone is wondering. My youngest is 2 years old, and has never had a single injection. We don't lock her up at home, and she does just fine. My 12 year old will never get another shot, and she is also doing just fine. In fact, one of the biggest reasons we have stuck with our health approach is our kids are consistently MUCH healthier than all of our nephews and nieces.

NuttBoxer says

tanked says

It appeared the second part was purposely removed but you say that was automated.

I'm saying I selected the portion of your reply I wanted to discuss, but did not modify it after selection. There have been so many lies told about a subject many have so little understanding of, I think it's important we don't give any quarter to unproven medical procedures, even if it's a half-assed endorsement.

And I don't just philosophize on this stuff in case anyone is wondering. My youngest is 2 years old, and has never had a single injection. We don't lock her up at home, and she does just fine. My 12 year old will never get another shot, and she is also doing just fine. In fact, one of the biggest reasons we have stuck with our health approach is our kids are consistently MUCH healthier than all of our nephews and nieces.

I get it, and lean now heavily towards your conclusion. Well done posting this. What I was saying was, on the one hand the data appears to be supporting vaccine effectiveness, and on the other hand the data appears to be supporting that vaccines are snake oil, at best a benign waste of money, at worst - harmful with no upside like we see on Covid. I shouldn't have said proof on both points but because they were in direct conflict in the same line I thought it was clear that I wasn't claiming either to actually be proven. (and on Covid they aren't even using them as the vaccines they claim them to be, they are using them during a so called pandemic (which like excess antibiotic use would spawn supervariants that cannot be stopped), and also as a cure and a treatment, even though historically defined vaccines, cures, and treatments are all very different things. 1 size fits all how convenient. But since it's phony they had to go with that label as it's the only one they could use to get non-symptomatic people to take it, and also throw in the never-seen-before-concept-of-asymptomatic-transmission)