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We are not going to restore Russia to the border of the Empire of 1913. Moscow supports the sovereignty of the former republics of the Union, but Ukraine is an exception "because of external control" - V.V. Putin at a meeting with Aliyev

gabbar says

We are not going to restore Russia to the border of the Empire of 1913. Moscow supports the sovereignty of the former republics of the Union, but Ukraine is an exception "because of external control" - V.V. Putin at a meeting with Aliyev

Putler lies constantly, no reason to believe him on this
He was also not invading ukraine a week ago, was not invading crimea etc

If Ukraine survives another few days, Russians are done.
Why do I think that - Chinese are starting to hedge - their foreign ministry had press release today about territorial integrity of countries incl Ukraine, and started sanctioning Russian banks. Second, Turkey shipped craploads of arms to Ukraine via Poland.

Bd6r says

If Ukraine survives another few days, Russians are done.
Why do I think that - Chinese are starting to hedge - their foreign ministry had press release today about territorial integrity of countries incl Ukraine, and started sanctioning Russian banks. Second, Turkey shipped craploads of arms to Ukraine via Poland.

That could very well be. I found it interesting that they called for diplomacy after initially trashing the US. Xi is not stupid either, Russia is a much closer threat for Chyna than the US of A.

AmericanKulak says

Okay, I'll bite on this sidebar for a second:
Yep, South Syrians who never had a state of their own, nor even a province under the Byzantines or Ottomans

It doesn't matter if it was ever recognized as a state or a region. There were people there.

If a bunch of, I dunno, Mongolians decided to settle in Nichols Minnesota, after the United States collapsed, and the world declared it as a new country, would you then be defending this? Nichols was never a state...

This is just semantics, and it's a stupid argument, and I'm TIRED of arguing about Israel. Israel will take over the entire West Bank in time, probably will retake Gaza, and will be claiming they want "peace" and are working toward a "two state solution" the entire time. They're lying.

Dragging the conversation into "is this moral or not" is a complete waste of time. Morality has nothing to do with it. Might makes right. I'm telling you what is being done and was is inevitably going to happen. Right or wrong is written by propagandists for the "history books".

Bd6r says

gabbar says

We are not going to restore Russia to the border of the Empire of 1913. Moscow supports the sovereignty of the former republics of the Union, but Ukraine is an exception "because of external control" - V.V. Putin at a meeting with Aliyev

Putler lies constantly, no reason to believe him on this
He was also not invading ukraine a week ago, was not invading crimea etc

Not really, or better not always. He never lied about being serious to get guarantees that the ex soviet border nations should stay neutral and not join nato, otherwise he'd take action. This is what the 3rd time? They should have negotiated that long ago. What he's doing now is despicable, but not surprising. I just hope most Ukranians stay safe

You mean Zelensky's letting the Clinton Foundation off the hook?

Although the media is pumping the narrative of Russia invading the Ukraine, it seems to me that the fight is between the Ukrainian Russian Separists (supported by Russia) and the Ukrainian nationals (supported by NATO). Its appears to be a PROXY "dust-up" between Russia and Nato that just happens to be on Ukraine soil.

BOOM.
https://patrick.net/post/1343816/2022-02-26-soros-backs-ukraine

komputodo says

Although the media is pumping the narrative of Russia invading the Ukraine, it seems to me that the fight is between the Ukrainian Russian Separists (supported by Russia) and the Ukrainian nationals (supported by NATO). Its appears to be a PROXY "dust-up" between Russia and Nato that just happens to be on Ukraine soil.

There are plenty of dead Dagestanis and Chechens who are not inhabitants of Ukraine

I thank my friend Mr. President of 🇹🇷 @RTErdogan and the people of 🇹🇷 for their strong support. The ban on the passage of 🇷🇺 warships to the Black Sea and significant military and humanitarian support for 🇺🇦 are extremely important today. The people of 🇺🇦 will never forget that

komputodo says

Although the media is pumping the narrative of Russia invading the Ukraine, it seems to me that the fight is between the Ukrainian Russian Separists (supported by Russia) and the Ukrainian nationals (supported by NATO). Its appears to be a PROXY "dust-up" between Russia and Nato that just happens to be on Ukraine soil.

I figured as much. Weapon sales are profitable, foreign nations explode…

Bd6r says

There are plenty of dead Dagestanis and Chechens who are not inhabitants of Ukraine

Why were they there? Did they live there? Don't they call that "collateral damage" nowadays? We used to call it "being in the wrong place at the wrong time". I'm sure they will be in your thought and prayers because when you get right down to it...even with all the shit going on in your country, what could be more important than a fight in the Ukraine.

komputodo says

Why were they there?

Conscripts from Russian Caucasus republics and Kadyrov's (prorussian Chechen leader) guard. Again, info not from Western media. So the civil war is quite imaginary but invasion is real.

Bd6r says

So the civil war is quite imaginary but invasion is real.

To what end? What does russia gain from invading?

komputodo says

what end? What does russia gain from invading?

I think nothing, but then again I am not Putler. He has probably botoxed out his brains.

However, presence of Russian troops in Ukraine does seem to verify invasion. And I did not see that on CNN

Bd6r says

komputodo says

what end? What does russia gain from invading?

I think nothing, but then again I am not Putler. He has probably botoxed out his brains.

Yeah that makes sense...I think you nailed it...BTW...Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell of California suggested Friday that kicking Russian students out of U.S. colleges and universities should be looked at as a possible deterrent to Russia after the country's President Vladimir Putin launched an invasion into Ukraine earlier this week.

Asked during a Thursday appearance on "CNN Newsroom" about potential sanctions the U.S. should use against Russia, Swalwell proposed penalizing Russian students attending college in the U.S.
That seems justified...lol

Bd6r says

However, presence of Russian troops in Ukraine does seem to verify invasion.

Would NATO troops in the Ukraine also verify invasion by Nato?

HunterTits says

Uhh...seriously?

Uhh.yes.seriously...please educate me

To put in a Russian Friendly government that won't join NATO and maybe sign a non-Aggression Pact, which of course peace-loving Globalists will call (with some justice) made under duress.

If they do this, you should have invested in Eastern Poland, since it will be a seller's market for real estate due to new base openings.

HunterTits says

komputodo says

Uhh.yes.seriously...please educate me

But are YOU serious?

What I mean is that this can't be taught on a PatNet post. You are going to have to invest time and effort. Worth it, tho.

This guy totally predicted this, so I would recommend reading his book

Predicted what? That Russia would eventually attack Ukraine to prevent it from joining NATO?

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.

You don't need to be a genius to see that.

HunterTits says

No.

That is also not why Russia invaded. Germany would never have agreed to let Ukraine join NATO anyway.

That's the only ultimatum that Putin has been making for YEARS now.

Had Ukraine and NATO simply stated that there were no plans to bring Ukraine into NATO, there would have been no war - at least according to Russia. If NATO and Ukraine had just made this statement, Russia wouldn't have had an excuse to go to war, if that was just cover to begin the war.

HunterTits says

That you believe otherwise is just indicative that you don't know what is going on. Sorry to be an asshole, but it is true.

You could just state what you think is going on, but you won't.

Oh, but it has to be a MYSTERY, you couldn't possibly fit it into a sentence, why I'd have to read volumes of books to have it explained.

Yeah, that's typical bullshit. The truth isn't complicated but lies get very fucking convoluted. I'm not particularly informed about Russia, but I am with US foreign policy and how often they lie and how they always love to make war and mayhem. I'm VERY familiar with that. Quite often the US will draw a "red line" and then do everything they can do to make certain that line is crossed, up to an including false flags like they did in Syria, or just lying about it like they did with the last Iraq War.

I don't know how trustworthy Russia is, but I know PRECISELY how trustworthy the US intelligence agencies are and that's our foreign policy.

komputodo says

Would NATO troops in the Ukraine also verify invasion by Nato?

Yes. Unless they are invited by UA govt

Russians start talking to Ukranians in Belorus. Which means that invasion is falling apart, contrary to predictions also here

If we dont get a thermonuclear war by cornered Putin, result will be a few centuries of enhanced hate of russ by ukr and birth of a genuine ukranian nation - before they were not nationalists other than in West Ukraine

This morning I talked with a Russian friend of mine who lives in a former USSR country. She has a lot of relatives in Ukraine and Russia, is fairly rich, and has a lot of connections in Russia. I will think over what she said and will write a summary in evening. It is more depressing than what any of us here can imagine.

richwicks says

Russia wouldn't have had an excuse to go to war, if that was just cover to begin the war.

They would have gone to war anyway. They don't need a real reason.

Reminder: The Montreaux Convention says ALL Parties cannot send warships in or out of the Bosphorus when activated. That means the USN as well as Russian.

But we all know how the precious Holy Divine Laws International Treaties of Ultimate Goodness when in reality it's an Anarchy of Powerful States.

See also: Nuremberg Laws with COVID. Many Signatories didn't bat an eye Or no Security Council approval for various "Interventions".

And no, folks stuck in the Cold War, it's not Putin Propaganda, it's reality. I fully support the Monroe Doctrine and kicking Soviet Ass in Grenada and Cuba for trying to put in Tupolev Bomber bases and SRBMs there. But the Monroe Doctrine is Evil and Totally Invalidated according to the Divine Rules Based Order the Internationalists want enforced.

International Law is FALSE SECURITY and SELECTIVELY ENFORCED.

How Many Divisions has the Red Cross?

Once people go back to Realpolitik, Concert of Europe thinking, and not the Globaloney International Law BS, they'll see the world and what's possible with clear eyes, not through the Dark Fart Fog of Ideology.

OK, so I gathered my thoughts and my very limited mental abilities after talking to my Russian friend.

1. Her relatives in Kiev said that yesterday situation for Ukrainans was so dire that military trucks were stopping in cities and giving out AKs and RPGs to anyone who would take them. No documents required. Result is twofold. First, Russians are met with gunfire from every damned house. Second, massive looting by UKRAINIAN criminals who got their hand on weapons (and that is ascribed by Ukr propaganda to Russian troops). Lesson: population should be given guns BEFORE invasion.
2. The idiots in West dont understand East European psychology. They have village patriotism. If Russians attack Donbas, Zhytomyr does not give a shit. Now they attacked whole Ukraine and we will have a Ukrainian nation finally - before it was Soviet invention and ephemeral.
3. Rich russians think that Putin has gone mad. Hence, watch out for nuclear attacks since he is losing grip on reality and power. What does he have to lose - if he loses war in Ukraine or even if there is an unfavorable stalemate, his associates will kill him as is common in those parts of the world. This scares me a lot and you should be afraid as well. We may have the end of civilization as we know it.
4. So called patriotic or anti West Russians are against attacking Ukraine. It is different to liberate Sevastopol where probably 90 pct of population greets Russian troops with flowers. In Mariupol or Kiev they are greeted with RPGs and result is mutual killing of Eastern Slavs, which is anathema to a lot of Russians.

Some of my considerations...
1. It is first time since 1991 when I am actually afraid for what will happen.
2. I am not sure, but supposedly Putin has been vaccinated against covid many times. Perhaps vaccine decreases intellectual abilities, and I am not joking. Before attacking, he had excellent situation where he could threaten to attack and extract concessions. Now it is over.
3. So called imperial type Russians say that Putin sank a lot of money into new weapons, but most of it was stolen. Which is normal around there. Result - most of weapons used to attack Ukraine is of 1989 vintage, same as most Ukrainian weapons. Russian troops have little motivation (see village patriotism above), while Ukrainians have motivation.
4. Zelensky the Ukr president is a Russian speaking Jew. He learned to speak Ukr language after he was elected. So much about Nazis leading Ukraine and oppression of Russian speakers. I think he is genuine Ukr patriot now, I was not sure before.
5. I posted a link to former Soviet KGB/military top brass open letter to Putin a few weeks ago here on Patnet (https://patrick.net/post/1343609/2022-02-08-interesting-development-in-russian-aggr) which said that Putin is an idiot who should step down. This letter convinced me that attack on Ukraine is imminent. See above Eastern Slavs killing Eastern Slavs. Anathema to most Soviet educated military.
6. Russians want talks now. This means their Blitzkrieg did not work. West will try to force Ukrainians to talk. Since they are winning, the only talk should be about Russians surrendering. +Germans with their need for Russian gaz are ones who need talks not Ukrainans. Do stupid greenie crap, win stupid prizes.
7. Someone on Patnet predicted Russian cakewalk in 4 days. It is 4th day and there are now as many dead Russians as in whole first Chechen war.

Bd6r says

The idiots in West dont understand East European psychology. They have village patriotism. If Russians attack Donbas, Zhytomyr does not give a shit. Now they attacked whole Ukraine and we will have a Ukrainian nation finally - before it was Soviet invention and ephemeral.

This is similar to the Irish mentality. Loyalty was only to one's extended family for many centuries. There was no country of Ireland. It took British invasion and occupation to make the Irish think of themselves as one people - in opposition to the British.

The last straw was when the British executed prisoners after the 1916 Easter uprising at the Dublin General Post office, including one who was in a wheelchair. After that, even those Irish who used to think of themselves as British changed their minds.

Oppression creates unity. Putin is really creating the country of Ukraine right now.

Bd6r says

First, Russians are met with gunfire from every damned house.

Doubt it. Most people are simply not brave enough to pull the trigger, especially when they know a trained person is potentially going to be shooting back.

Bd6r says

Rich russians think that Putin has gone mad.

This is possible. I’m sure many believe he has gone mad, and it is possible he has, I mean those images of meetings with advisors where he is half a room away are ridiculous. But, it is also possible that in a mad world he is relatively sane. Not making any judgment here I just am skeptical about both Russian and Western media so both sides and the people who listen to the media/propaganda really have no idea what the truth is. What I do know is this, there is pretty much universal condemnation in the media of what “Putin has done.”

Bd6r says

What does he have to lose - if he loses war in Ukraine or even if there is an unfavorable stalemate, his associates will kill him as is common in those parts of the world. This scares me a lot and you should be afraid as well. We may have the end of civilization as we know it.

Ah, now this is where it really gets interesting. I don’t think in a world where our own scientists created a virus, lied about it, released it, used it to manipulate elections, and implement totalitarian controls that we need to be afraid of a foreign power, any more than we need to be concerned about liars, traitors and despots in our own country and neighborhoods. Sure, ever since the invention of nuclear weapons there has been a threat of their use, but the threat is only slightly more real to you now that you feel Putin may be crazy. If Putin is crazy, what does that say about Fauci? He is a psychopath. And there are many more like him in our own country, in positions of power no less. And for that matter, consider Biden is he any more sane? He keeps pushing worthless and dangerous vaccines for a virus that is only a threat to people who are already immunocompromised.

Don’t fear Putin, your fear is misplaced. Fear the God who created you. When all is said and done, it is either this, do God’s will, or be judged. Your life is like a vapor, it appears for a little while and then quickly vanishes away. Let Putin nuke me, I’ll be happy to be done with my time on this earth, and will rest easy knowing that if God wills that I die in a nuclear holocaust it was his will, and it happened to give Him glory.

I don’t believe for one second that Putin is playing games, nor that he did not anticipate exactly what has happened. I don’t know why he chose to go after the city of Kiev, or if the stories we hear are even remotely true. But I do know that the globalists want us to hate Putin right now. And that should give us all pause.