patrick.net

CIA's Burns & SecDef Austin In Separate 'Urgent' Trips To Ukraine As War Effort Implodes https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/cias-burns-secdef-austin-separate-urgent-trips-ukraine-war-effort-implodes

socal2 says

Not as funny as reading all the pro Russian garbage by you and others making CONFIDENT claims of Ukraine's imminent fall.

We said that Ukey Nazi Land would lose this war. All that requires is them not being able to a) re-secure their lost territory and b) not having their manpower capacity attritted to fucking hell.

Whether Moscow invades and conquers the rest of it is ephemeral to the above.

Ukraine is fucked either way simply because of their war accelerated demographic disaster and destroyed production capacity.

socal2 says

Yet here we are nearing 2 years into Russia's total cockup and they will still have less Ukrainian land under control then they had the first week of their invasion.

This isn't about Russia. This is about Ukraine. Ukraine fucked up, wasted THREE armies w/o achieving their war objectives.

Meanwhile Russia's objectives of preventing NATO expansion in Ukraine while protecting ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine has been achieved.

PumpingRedheads says

Meanwhile Russia's objectives of preventing NATO expansion in Ukraine while protecting ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine has been achieved.

How many new NATO members are on Russia's border now?

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe and are going to continue killing tens of thousands of foolish Russians trying to occupy their land.

socal2 says

How many new NATO members are on Russia's border now?

Too many as far as the Russians are concerned.

socal2 says

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe

What a load of total factual crap.

socal2 says

How many new NATO members are on Russia's border now?

Are they in Ukraine? No.

Learn to fucking R-E-A-D:

What PumpingRedheads says

Meanwhile Russia's objectives of preventing NATO expansion in Ukraine

socal2 says

How many new NATO members are on Russia's border now?

Too many as far as the Russians are concerned.

socal2 says

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe

What a load of total factual crap. They don't have any reserves and most of their front-line units are combat ineffective.

Their equipment is destroyed and they are out of arty.

That is REALITY, not Ukey propaganda bullshit.

socal2 says

How many new NATO members are on Russia's border now?

Are they in Ukraine? No.

Learn to fucking R-E-A-D:

What PumpingRedheads says

Meanwhile Russia's objectives of preventing NATO expansion in Ukraine

socal2 says

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe and are going to continue killing tens of thousands of foolish Russians trying to occupy their land.

It's not too early to start hoping for another Ukraine Spring Offensive, being that the other one went so well. Keep drinking that Zelensky Kool Aide.

There was never a time that Ukraine was going to defeat Russia ... NEVER.

RayAmerica says

There was never a time that Ukraine was going to defeat Russia ... NEVER.

Absolute truth. Yet the Ukey Nazi Fluffers of the World exist in this bubble that sez otherwise.

Here's some AI generated hopium for Team Ukraine. Maybe they can manufacture a RealDoll to whisper it as sweet nothings.

Ceffer says

Here's some AI generated hopium for Team Ukraine. Maybe they can manufacture a RealDoll to whisper it as sweet nothings.

Once again, kiddies....

> Russian victory is impossible
> Russian victory unlikely
> Russia cannot be allowed to win
> Russia is winning but at what cost? (Bloomberg is here)
> Those damn Israelis! (Zelensky's bubble is here)
> Russian victory was inevitable
> Ukraine was a corrupt hellhole anyway (you were always here)

Viktor Orbán Threatens to Veto EU Funding for Ukraine, Calls for ‘Fundamental Debate’ on War Strategy

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has written a letter to Brussels threatening to use his veto power to block EU funding for Ukraine and the accession process to admit the country into the bloc, demanding a “fundamental debate” about the bloc’s strategy on the war.

With European Union funding for Ukraine set to dry up at the end of the year and expansionist Eurocrats seeking to swiftly incorporate the partially-occupied state into their ranks, Brussels’ grand plans may be derailed by Budapest, with conservative leader Viktor Orbán vowing to not only block further military aid but also Ukraine’s ascension process unless the EU actually grapples with the realities on the ground.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/11/24/viktor-orban-threatens-to-veto-eu-funding-for-ukraine-calls-for-fundamental-debate-on-war-strategy/

We need a bunch of leaders like Viktor Orbán ...

RayAmerica says

We need a bunch of leaders like Viktor Orbán

Might want to hold off on the praise. They have bought off Orban before.

That is what the EU is all about. Redistribution of wealth to keep it together. A lot like Canada keeps itself together.

Thank God NAFTA isn't like that.

PumpingRedheads says

> Russian victory was inevitable

Hey @Socal2

If Ukraine has one of the most experienced and heavily armed militaries, then why are we preparing to throw them under the bus like we did to Afghanistan?

And why haven't you gotten off the NeoCon bamdwagon about this?


original link

Long but covers media coverage from last year/early this year compared to.now.

Pretty damning for Ukey Narrative Fluffers.

We will continue to support them to be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table when the time comes

Translation: We are preparing you for when we throw Ukraine under the bus.



https://twitter.com/USNATO/status/1726615865980813706

PumpingRedheads says

Translation: We are preparing you for when we throw Ukraine under the bus.

Lost miserably, Ukraine will be partitioned, but we will gaslight that we didn't actually lose with the usual arrays of Satanic inversions and misdirections. Our propaganda addicts will buy that.

Ceffer says

Ukraine will be partitioned, but we will gaslight that we didn't actually lose

We are focused on setting the conditions for a just, durable and sustainable peace...and all those Fluffers who carried our bullshit water on PatNet and other sites, we thank you for totally fucking up your credibility so our shares of Raytheon could go up!

https://rudy.substack.com/p/ron-pauls-what-if-speech

I was reminded of this today, and figured it deserved its own post.

Remarkable.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. PAUL) is recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. PAUL. Madam Speaker, I have a few questions for my colleagues.

What if our foreign policy of the past century is deeply flawed and has not served our national security interests?

What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others and has nothing to do with us being free and prosperous?

What if propping up repressive regimes in the Middle East endangers both the United States and Israel?

What if occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan—and bombing Pakistan—is directly related to the hatred directed towards us?

What if some day it dawns on us that losing over 5,000 American military personnel in the Middle East since 9/11 is not a fair trade-off for the loss of nearly 3,000 American citizens—no matter how many Iraqi, Pakistani, and Afghan people are killed or displaced?

What if we finally decide that torture—even if called ‘‘enhanced interrogation techniques’’—is self-destructive and produces no useful information and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil?

What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy?

What if all wartime spending is paid for through the deceitful and evil process of inflating and borrowing?

What if we finally see that wartime conditions always undermine personal liberty?

What if conservatives, who preach small government, wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government?

What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?

What if the American people woke up and understood the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?

What if we, as a Nation, came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?

What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?

What if a military draft is being planned for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed?

What if the American people learn the truth: that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security and it never changes from one administration to the next?

What if war and preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests?

What if President Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam put together?

What if Christianity actually teaches peace and not preventive wars of aggression?

What if diplomacy is found to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting America?

What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded? Nothing.

But what happens if my concerns are justified and ignored? Nothing good.

Patrick says

What if a military draft is being planned for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed?

Nahhh. They will just recruit foreigners like the Roman Republic did towards the end of their decline.

We actually do already, but from our internal population's non-citizens. I am talking expanding that like the French do with their Foreign Legion.

The first NATO nation to call for peace negotiations with Russia.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/unfortunate-news-for-kyiv-they-ve-lost-an-ally/ar-AA1kvTGI?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b7bc448e78944ca2bfbdccd53fcb772c&ei=9

Misc says

The first NATO nation to call for peace negotiations with Russia.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/unfortunate-news-for-kyiv-they-ve-lost-an-ally/ar-AA1kvTGI?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b7bc448e78944ca2bfbdccd53fcb772c&ei=9

I guess they didn't get this memo:

socal2 says

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe and are going to continue killing tens of thousands of foolish Russians

See https://twitter.com/ShadowofEzra/status/1726622797118804153

The_Deplorable says

See https://twitter.com/ShadowofEzra/status/1726622797118804153

Once again, kiddies....

> Russian victory is impossible
> Russian victory unlikely
> Russia cannot be allowed to win
> Russia is winning but at what cost?
> Damn Israel! (Zelensky is stuck here)
> Russian victory was inevitable (Narrative is now here; Ukey Nazi Fluffers fucked)
> Ukraine was a corrupt hellhole anyway (you were always here)

The_Deplorable says

https://www.barrons.com/news/end-attack-on-ukraine-scholz-to-putin-in-first-g20-call-since-war-aff8be2c

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Wednesday he urged Vladimir Putin to end Moscow's war on Ukraine and withdraw all troops from the country, in the first G20 video call the Russian president participated in since the conflict.

"I called on President Putin to end his attack on Ukraine and withdraw troops from Ukraine's territory, so that this war can finally end," Scholz told journalists at a press conference in Berlin alongside Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.

The_Deplorable says

Hahaha!

WTF @socal2 !

How does that square with this?

socal2 says

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe and are going to continue killing tens of thousands of foolish Russians

HERE is what the fuck happened:

PumpingRedheads says

The_Deplorable says

See https://twitter.com/ShadowofEzra/status/1726622797118804153

Once again, kiddies....

> Russian victory is impossible
> Russian victory unlikely
> Russia cannot be allowed to win
> Russia is winning but at what cost?
> Damn Israel! (Zelensky is stuck here)
> Russian victory was inevitable (Narrative is now here; Ukey Nazi Fluffers fucked)
> Ukraine was a corrupt hellhole anyway (you were always here)

The_Deplorable says

I figure it's either that or we are intentionally limiting weapons system to Ukraine due to supply constraints on the consumables (ammunition). It's not like Russia is doing any better in that department. They can't make stuff either and have to beg North Korea for stuff. At least north Koreans have food and oil now.

zzyzzx says

I figure it's either that or we are intentionally limiting weapons system to Ukraine due to supply constraints

Or:
Ukraine does not have the manpower to win, and that fact is harder to hide. If we ship a massive number of weapons, we will have a repeat of what happened in Afghanistan, were Biden left $billions in war material for the enemy to collect.

Your tax dollars at work ...

BREAKING! Ukraine's Zelensky CAUGHT buying $75 million luxury yacht with U.S. money? | Redacted News

Actually, Zelensky bought TWO luxury yachts, total cost to YOU? $75 Million.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLGPYqHOP_w

ad says

"I called on President Putin to end his attack on Ukraine and withdraw troops from Ukraine's territory, so that this war can finally end," Scholz told journalists..."

Nonsense. Scholz - like an obedient puppy - is ignoring the facts because...

• It was Obama who overthrew the democratically elected government of the Ukraine in 2014 and installed the current neoCon Nazi regime.

• And it was these Nazis who started killing Ukraine's Russian speakers for speaking Russian! <==== Please, read this again and again until it sinks in.

• Look, if you start shooting people you cannot blame them for shooting back. It is called self defense.

• Russia did not start this war but Russia is finishing this war by defeating the US and NATO in Ukraine and proving that this is indeed a multipolar world.

The_Deplorable says

Nonsense. Scholz - like an obedient puppy - is ignoring the facts because...

Puppet doesn't even care any more that he plays the complete buffoon with a cock up his ass. "Gee, Okay, Scholz or whatever you are, because you say so."

I wish we would understand that German-dominated EU is a rival, not a friend.

Germany looks after Germany, the only difference between a century ago and today is they've finally accepted they can expand deep instead of out.

The Germans HATE imports, they refuse to carry so much as Marmite, making a German version no matter how tiny the market there for it; you can't find British goods in Germany, only German knock offs of British things. Even British stores for expats are mostly German knockoffs.

No hate on Germany, just a willingness to imitate their success.

Why don't we have an Anglophone alliance-Free Trade Zone with equivalent countries: NZ, Aus, Can, US, UK?

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/rising-narratives-wednesday-november

If you don’t recall him, Until recently a lifelong liberal, Sachs is a prominent and well-spoken economist, professor, Director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, President of the UN’s Sustainable Development Solutions Network, and has been a special advisor to three United Nations Secretaries-General. He has been called “one of the most influential economists of our time.”

It turns out that Professor Sachs is not too hot about the Proxy War.

The interview is astonishing, given The Hill’s left-leaning bona fides. The Hill is so dependably left of center that I regularly source it for the latest official narrative. (I initially watched this episode mostly because I was amused that the show’s title pitched The Hill as a plucky independent outlet battling the mainstream media.) This episode reflects a major narrative shift.

Just wait. The interview included spicy rhetorical crescendos like when the “liberal” anchor referred to Ukraine as “this proxy war,” or when Professor Sachs called the war an “absolutely stupid, avoidable conflict,” concluded “Biden played it wrong at every moment,” and advised people not to believe anything the government says.

Who does that sound like?

Professor Sachs sprinted out of the gate, starting his takedown of the existing narrative by connecting the current proxy war to the U.S.’s meddling in Ukraine back in the 2014 color revolution. But Sachs went further, claiming that Viktoria Nuland and Lindsay Graham bungled the whole thing at great cost to Ukraine:

SACHS: “The war’s been going on for nine years since the U.S. participated in the violent overthrow of a Ukrainian president that wanted neutrality for his country — not NATO… During this whole period, the U.S had a weak hand and it played it terribly… at every step Ukraine could have been saved but the U.S. kept upping the ante and Ukraine kept losing more.”

According to Professor Sachs — who is an actual expert on international politics — Ukraine’s losses starting with Crimea are directly attributable to U.S. bungling, and he even called out Joe Biden as the bungling co-author. If that’s not a sign that Biden’s political future is numbered, I don’t know what is. People like Professor Sachs don’t get where they are without having a solid sense of politics. ...

Professor Sachs not only agreed with the anchor’s cynical sentiments but went further, suggesting — unless I’m misunderstanding something — that Ukraine should just give up and the U.S. should apologize to Russia:

SACHS: “Robbie, I’m an old guy. I’ve been through this a lot of times (since) Vietnam. This is standard operating procedures of the United States. Over-promise. Over-Sell. Get into proxy wars. Then, they fail… (Look,) we’ve run out of time. We’ve run out of patience. We’ve run out of budget support. We’ve run out of 155 millimeter shells. And tragically, Ukraine’s running out of soldiers.
So that old line, that we’re in there to the last Ukrainian, is tragically, literally happening right now… Ukraine has lost hundreds of thousands of people in this absolutely stupid, avoidable conflict. So it’s gonna stop. It has to stop. NATO — that means the U.S. by the way, it doesn’t mean anything else — has to help to end this in the most favorable way by saying (to Russia), okay, okay, we’re not going to enlarge in in some lamebrain idea of George W. Bush Jr., and we (wrongly) kept it going, and we should’ve negotiated with you, the whole thing was a stupid idea. We’re going to have to say that.” ...

Welcome, Dr. Sachs! We have been advising people not to believe anything the government says for at least two years now. Every single thing Dr. Sachs said in this interview tracks with what we’ve all been saying since the Proxy War started. It’s not a good sign for Ukraine. ... The second part also tracked a major C&C topic area. In it, Dr. Sachs explained why he’s no longer a democrat. Can you guess why?

Patrick says

Every single thing Dr. Sachs said in this interview tracks with what we’ve all been saying since the Proxy War started. It’s not a good sign for Ukraine. ...

Old KommieKunt from the hotbed of Kommie Academia tries to save his socks after his pants have burned off? Shows his louche and disposable ethical standards. Another turncoat of convenience? Again, weird ramblings in the Globalista-plex. It's like a huge weight has listed things from port to starboard.

Are they selling tickets to the partition?

https://dcweekly.org/2023/11/29/unprecedented-us-operation-to-shelter-zelensky-raises-eyebrows/

Unprecedented US Operation to Shelter Zelensky Raises Eyebrows
The Unprecedented Expenditure of U.S. Resources and Citizenship Grants for President Zelensky's Extended U.S. Stay, Unraveling the Uncertain Future of Ukraine's Leadership Amidst Ongoing Conflict

A US Secret Service agent who wished to remain anonymous has revealed to DCWeekly details about the arrangements being made for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s relocation to the United States. The agent claims that the Biden administration has issued orders to ensure the safety and accommodation of President Zelensky’s family starting in the spring of 2024. This decision is based on the belief that Zelensky’s presidency in Ukraine may conclude next year, and remaining in Ukraine thereafter could pose security risks.

The agent, speaking anonymously, expressed deep concern about this order, as it goes beyond the typical protection provided to foreign dignitaries. He mentioned that many of his colleagues are equally troubled by the plan and have attempted to convey the impracticality of this arrangement to their superiors without success. The operation involves various divisions responsible for the security of foreign leaders, presidential security, and even the Citizenship and Naturalization services within the Department of Homeland Security. Essentially, Zelensky will be granted the privileges of a foreign politician while also enjoying the status of an American citizen. This marks an unprecedented development in US history, and the agent is apprehensive about setting a precedent that could lead leaders of US allied states to demand similar special treatment and pension plans. Fulfilling all the requested conditions will require a substantial allocation of budget funds and the involvement of a significant number of personnel.

Zelensky himself is expected to take up residence in Florida, alongside his wife and two children. A lavish estate located in Vero Beach along the Atlantic shore, estimated to be worth $20,000,000, will be provided for this purpose. In addition to accommodation, American taxpayers will cover Zelensky’s security, transportation, domestic staff, and a personal assistant.

The agent further reveals that the Office of Protective Operations has an annual budget of approximately $200,000,000. He estimates that the total expenses related to President Zelensky’s stay in the US will amount to at least $20,000,000, which represents a significant 10% of the office’s annual budget. While such expenditures could potentially be justified for the short-term visit of a foreign leader to the United States, the agent points out a concerning aspect: the government order did not specify an end date for Zelensky’s stay in the US. This lack of clarity arises from the operation’s involvement in the process of granting citizenship to Zelensky and his family, with their Certificates of Naturalization already issued.

Interestingly, the agent highlights that the citizenship application and interview date was set for September 20, a day when Zelensky made a speech at the NATO summit during his visit to the US. This suggests that the Biden administration had been planning President Zelensky’s relocation well in advance. It raises questions about the incongruity between this behind-the-scenes arrangement and the image of a resilient and fearless fighter that Zelensky portrays to the world, an image strongly supported by mainstream media.

In closing, the agent expresses uncertainty about whether this operation was proposed by President Biden or President Zelensky but emphasizes the impracticality of undertaking such a massive operation. He concludes by stating, “We don’t have enough resources or personnel to provide presidential protection to anyone who requests it.”

The preparation for this operation implies that the American government does not anticipate President Zelensky remaining in office beyond the spring of 2024. This adds to the uncertainty surrounding the development of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict. Headlines about a military stalemate and global weariness from the ongoing war, which has already cost the United States over $90 billion, have been increasingly prominent in world media. President Zelensky’s term is set to end next spring, with the next election scheduled for March 31. However, Zelensky has stated on multiple occasions that he may consider canceling the elections due to the ongoing hostilities.