patrick.net

How does any of this work with the popular narrative wrt "US was planning to make Ukraine invade and take over poor defenceless Russia"?

RWSGFY says

How does any of this work with the popular here narrative wrt US was planning to make Ukraine invade and take over poor defenseless Russia?

Nato likely never planned to invade Russia, but with instituting a nato friendly Ukraine puppet govt by coup and destroying their stash they guaranteed tensions for a while, and a longer lasting significance and importance, plus moar weapons sales and d-fens contracts for a long while as Ukraine has to re-arm after abandoning their old weapons stash. The military industrial complex is not stupid and knows how to keep the gravy train going, similar to the pharma complex.

mell says

RWSGFY says

How does any of this work with the popular here narrative wrt US was planning to make Ukraine invade and take over poor defenseless Russia?

Nato likely never planned to invade Russia, but with instituting a nato friendly Uraine puppet govt by coup they guaranteed tensions for a while, and a longer lasting significance and importance, plus moar weapons sales and d-dense contracts for a long while as Ukraine has to re-arm after abandoning their old weapons stash. The military industrial complex is not stupid and knows how to keep the gravy train going, similar to the pharma complex.

No weapons were provided up until 2018 when Trump doled out 160 Jav missiles - historic fact.

So if Obama planned to sell shitload of weaponry, why the fuck didn't he do it?

Basically what you are doing is mind-reading: you somehow "know" Obama's plan even though there is no evidence of him executing any of it. And mind-reading is not really a thing.

RWSGFY says

mell says

RWSGFY says

How does any of this work with the popular here narrative wrt US was planning to make Ukraine invade and take over poor defenseless Russia?

Nato likely never planned to invade Russia, but with instituting a nato friendly Uraine puppet govt by coup they guaranteed tensions for a while, and a longer lasting significance and importance, plus moar weapons sales and d-dense contracts for a long while as Ukraine has to re-arm after abandoning their old weapons stash. The military industrial complex is not stupid and knows how to keep the gravy train going, similar to the pharma complex.

No weapons were provided up until 2018 when Trump doled out 160 Jav missiles - historic fact.

So if Obama planned to sell shitload of weaponry, why the fuck didn't he do it?

Basically what you ...

Not defending Obummer or claim to know what he was thinking. All I'm saying that no matter what you supply, you'd be giddy to have all the stash destroyed so you can make moar money. The same reason most electronic gadget go bad at their weakest points such as charging ports. To sell moar (few would know how to open, solder and fix it if even possible). They should have left Ukraine all the weapons but stayed out of meddling in their affairs, then there wouldn't be that many problems today

mell says

They should have left Ukraine all the weapons but stayed out of meddling in their affairs, then there wouldn't be that many problems today

I actually agree with this. Problem is that they didn't. Further, I keep referring back to the Budapest Memorandum. Non-intervention is normally the right thing to do, except that in this case US agreed to the opposite if Ukrainian borders are threatened. We can debate whether US should've participated in it, but the fact is that it did, and Ukraine held on to it's side of the deal.

Ukraine got rid of the nukes which it already had in exchange for the guarantee of security, and then it gets invaded by one of the guarantors. That's few steps above and beyond to what happened to Libya on the "oh fuck" scale. I think that this is one of the reasons for the global outrage that we currently observe.

mell says

RWSGFY says

mell says

RWSGFY says

How does any of this work with the popular here narrative wrt US was planning to make Ukraine invade and take over poor defenseless Russia?

Nato likely never planned to invade Russia, but with instituting a nato friendly Uraine puppet govt by coup they guaranteed tensions for a while, and a longer lasting significance and importance, plus moar weapons sales and d-dense contracts for a long while as Ukraine has to re-arm after abandoning their old weapons stash. The military industrial complex is not stupid and knows how to keep the gravy train going, similar to the pharma complex.

No weapons were provided up until 2018 when Trump doled out 160 Jav missiles - historic fact.

So if Obama planned to ...

mostly reader says

mell says

They should have left Ukraine all the weapons but stayed out of meddling in their affairs, then there wouldn't be that many problems today

I actually agree with this. Problem is that they didn't. Further, I keep referring back to the Budapest Memorandum. Non-intervention is normally the right thing to do, except that in this case US agreed to the opposite if Ukrainian borders are threatened. We can debate whether US should've participated in it, but the fact is that it did, and Ukraine held on to it's side of the deal.

Ukraine got rid of the nukes which it already had in exchange for the guarantee of security, and then it gets invaded by one of the guarantors. That's few steps above and beyond to what happened to Libya on the "oh fuck" scale. I think that this is one of the reasons for the global outrage that we currently observe.

Also, to touch on the subject of "why not give the bully what he wants and live happily ever after?" - in this case agree to disarm and stop pursuing NATO membership. The question is "in exchange of what"? Assurances of sovereignty and territorial integrity ftom Russia, US and UK? Isn't it exactly what they got in Budapest Memorandum? How's it working? Not so good, eh?

RWSGFY says

Basically what you are doing is mind-reading: you somehow "know" Obama's plan even though there is no evidence of him executing any of it. And mind-reading is not really a thing.

What we know with certainty is that the United States overthrew Ukraine in 2014.

WHY the US did that, that's all speculation, but all speculation has to include that now known fact that the US overthrew Ukraine.

RWSGFY says

mell says

RWSGFY says

mell says

RWSGFY says

How does any of this work with the popular here narrative wrt US was planning to make Ukraine invade and take over poor defenseless Russia?

Nato likely never planned to invade Russia, but with instituting a nato friendly Uraine puppet govt by coup they guaranteed tensions for a while, and a longer lasting significance and importance, plus moar weapons sales and d-dense contracts for a long while as Ukraine has to re-arm after abandoning their old weapons stash. The military industrial complex is not stupid and knows how to keep the gravy train going, similar to the pharma complex.

No weapons were provided up until 2018 when ...

Maybe Russia should be offered donbass statehood/annex and a neutral Ukraine (no NATO), but with permissions for the Ukraine to build their own weapons arsenal and army in exchange for no military intervention for as long as it takes Ukraine to militarize, say 10 years or longer. EU membership is fine if they want to. Yes, Putin will get away with donbass and keep crimea and claim some sort of victory, but it also would solve the ethnic conflict - Russians and Ukrainians can make a choice where they want to live and under which regime.

So in the 2014 the big story was Crimea, not the fruition of the CIA's classic coup playbook in deposing of an elected official with one of their puppets, while subsequently legitimizing the Ukrainian Nazi party? Thereby destabilizing the country, and kick-starting Russian Ukrainian tensions that would manifest for the next EIGHT years in the Donbas region, starting Ukraine down an all too familiar road the US government/MIC had already taken countries such as Iraq.

Nice priorities. Red man bad!.

NuttBoxer says

Ukrainian Nazi party?

Can you be specific which of their several major parties is/was Nazi, and what specifically they did to earn a Nazi designation?

mell says

EU membership is fine if they want to.

Problem is, EU Ukraine means no trade agreement with their #1 trading partner, Russia. Since Russia won't wanting them selling EU stuff in Russia without tax or tariff.

Also, Ireland and France and Spain will be very, very upset. Way too much agra competition. Germany not happy either, they have the biggest diary output overall in the EU.

Interestingly, I just checked Ukraine agriculture and it's been dropping 2-3% year after year after year across almost every category, long before 2014 or 2004. Even Wheat was down below early 90s high, with last year (2021) being an exception I suppose because of COVID disruption.

Oats down 1/5th of early 1990s. Corn is up, but Barley is about the same as it was 30 years ago - I'm looking at the last few years, not just the last year or so.

Ukraine produces 1/3 as much milk as it did in the years after the Wall Fell

Bd6r says

Can you be specific which of their several major parties is/was Nazi, and what specifically they did to earn a Nazi designation?

I don't know I'd say major. But after 2014, the National Corps got a seat in Ukraine parliament. The military wing is know as Azov. It seems these parties have their roots in WWII when they attempted to help Germany overthrow Russia.

If you read or listen to any of the stuff I've posted you'll get a lot more information about them.

NuttBoxer says

It seems these parties have their roots in WWII when they attempted to help Germany overthrow Russia.

Cant be true as individuals who helped nazis were executed or deported by Soviets.NuttBoxer says

National Corps

I am not aware of such party, and A SEAT in parluament of hundreds means very little.
I am listening to a lot of information about Ukraine from many angles, incl Russian.

NuttBoxer says

It seems these parties have their roots in WWII when they attempted to help Germany overthrow Russia.

They were not so much loving the Nazis, but instead saw Hitler as a liberator for them to throw off Soviet communism.

Bd6r says

Cant be true as individuals who helped nazis were executed or deported by Soviets

They hoped that supporting the Nazi's would allow them to develop an independent state later on. Even mainstream propaganda agrees on this, it's well documented, irrespective of your opinion.

Bd6r says

I am not aware of such party, and A SEAT in parluament of hundreds means very little.

It legitimizes an extremist faction, which is always dangerous. Would you say the same if the Aryan Brotherhood had a seat in Congress? Maybe your sources are all the same as this is again not hard to lookup, but you haven't heard of it. If you read my posts on Ukraine, you'll find it also carries very dark connotations for us in the near future if the CIA can turn them into another Al Qaeda.

All this shit happened right after our victories against the scamdemic, especially in Canada. You've got to back up, to the beginning of Ukraine destabilization in 2014, and in light of the obvious connection between this and what's happened the last two years.

Again, until you read about bio-digital convergence, and other global agendas, you're gonna continue to struggle with understanding my perspective.

NuttBoxer says

if the Aryan Brotherhood had a seat in Congress?

That would be fine with me, Italy has Mussolini supporters in Parliament. Even if people are idiots they should not be muzzled or prohibited from running. Also, Schwab cohort of young leaders is more dangerous than a lone unnamed Nazi in Ukr parliament or Mussolini supporter in Italuan parliament. They will bring the same results but with lies.

mell says

Maybe Russia should be offered donbass statehood/annex and a neutral Ukraine (no NATO), but with permissions for the Ukraine to build their own weapons arsenal and army in exchange for no military intervention for as long as it takes Ukraine to militarize, say 10 years or longer. EU membership is fine if they want to. Yes, Putin will get away with donbass and keep crimea and claim some sort of victory, but it also would solve the ethnic conflict - Russians and Ukrainians can make a choice where they want to live and under which regime.

Breaking: Russia offers immediate stop of military operations if pretty much the above outlined is met.

Bd6r says

NuttBoxer says

Ukrainian Nazi party?

Can you be specific which of their several major parties is/was Nazi, and what specifically they did to earn a Nazi designation?

I can.

Svoboda is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

But who cares really?

mell says

Breaking: Russia offers immediate stop of military operations if pretty much the above outlined is met.

Blinken, who isn't qualified to do real estate deals on 5 acre plots in Arkansas, kept saying "if they only negotiate". They've been at the table several times.

You know Blinken and Nuland and the rest are telling Zelensky, don't you DARE say yes.

The big news was Blinken giving permission for Poland to give aircraft to Ukraine, but Poland saying they're not doing that.

AmericanKulak says

The big news was Blinken giving permission for Poland to give aircraft to Ukraine, but Poland saying they're not doing that.

NATO is a paper tiger. SURE the countries in NATO love the money the US sends them, and all the toys they get, and the money that is spent in those nations to keep the military alive.

But what they do not want, is war. They are entirely sane.

For some weird reason the dumb fucks in the United States thinks they are willing to go to nuclear war over Ukraine.