patrick.net

RWSGFY says

RV people know.

Yes, makes sense. I presume that RVs that use diesel do not have that $100 issue, as I cannot imagine that pumps that also serve Peterbilts do not routinely exceed $100 per fill.

HeadSet says

RWSGFY says

RV people know.

Yes, makes sense. I presume that RVs that use diesel do not have that $100 issue, as I cannot imagine that pumps that also serve Peterbilts do not routinely exceed $100 per fill.

No idea, as I only rented gas-powered ones in the US.

PS. Fun fact: in NZ whatever money you save by renting a diesel RV will be clawed back by per-mile surcharge their government tacks onto the rental bill. They do it only to diesels.

No more $100 cut off. I wish I didn't know that.

This mornings fill-up cost $97.

The price we pay to live in the paradise called California.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Menlo Park:

I biked over and took a picture. But note that that is just about the most expensive station in Menlo Park, being very near Sand Hill Road where all the VC's are:

@UkraineIsTotallyFucked ^^

Patrick says

UkraineIsTotallyFucked ^^

Looks like it went down.

HeadSet says

That will be from tolls. You know, like the Ohio Turnpike. More and more roads will become toll roads and electric and ICE will use EasyPass.

Ohio and Indiana can eat mounds of shit. It cost me $60 one way to get to central Ohio from IL. And the roads can eat shit. They suck. Like really suck. I'll fly to Cleveland as it's cheaper than driving round trip.

We get income personally from IL toll roads (bias), but they do actually have some of the best toll roads in the nation. Besides bridge tolls, most toll roads are trash. State and federally funded projects/roads in IL are fucking AIDS sucking a dogs dick. IDOT is a fuck that fucks itself. Sorry, touchy subject for me. Government bull shit too. We should be in 7 figure land annually but the fucking state of IL is a pile of shit governmentally. The state highways are trash. Toll roads awesome. Counties above average. Townships... eh. Depends.

It's too bad that the dipshit "central planners" didn't encourage natural gas (methane) cars.

You can fill up for cheap; they also burn natural gas to generate the electricity to charge your Tesla, Bolt, etc.

Honda sold a Civic CNG for a while, but evidently not enough people bought them.

I was considering converting my car to natural gas but decided fuckit, just keep my life simple.

Natural gas doesn't require refining, like petroleum does. It produces less CO2 than gasoline when burned (not important to me).

Buses and Amazon and UPS trucks are running on natural gas.

I read somewhere that there are now CNG/gas combo engines.

WookieMan says

It cost me $60 one way to get to central Ohio from IL

Get used to it. More tolls is how roads will be funded when gas consumption decreases.

HeadSet says

More tolls is how roads will be funded when gas consumption decreases.

Gas consumption decreases?

Never heard of Jevon's Paradox, have you?

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Never heard of Jevon's Paradox, have you?

So you think that more fuel-efficient ICE, hybrid and electric cars will lower the demand for gas enough that the price falls and people will just buy more gas because it is cheap?

HeadSet says

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Never heard of Jevon's Paradox, have you?

So you think that more fuel-efficient ICE, hybrid and electric cars will lower the demand for gas enough that the price falls and people will just buy more gas because it is cheap?

You and me - probably not. Some slice of low-income population who restricts their driving based on cost of gas - sure. Is it big enough to make a dramatic difference - no idea.

HeadSet says

So you think that more fuel-efficient ICE, hybrid and electric cars will lower the demand for gas enough that the price falls and people will just buy more gas because it is cheap?

1) EVs are fucked. At best, they have plateaued in market share. https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=2056511
2) Hybrids is where the efficiencies will happen.

But either way, gasoline consumption at the very least will not fall much.

Oh, and historically that is what happened:

When cars became more fuel-efficient, people started driving more. This is an example of the Jevons Paradox because instead of saving gas from the better mileage, people used it as a reason to drive longer distances or more often, which led to more gas being used overall.

https://philosophyterms.com/jevons-paradox/amp/

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

1) EVs are fucked. At best, they have plateaud in market share.

I don't think the EV lovers understand this. A good percentage of the population simply won't buy them, specifically men. Also charging one is like running an AC condenser for the day. We don't have the grid for much more expansion of EV's without them getting taxed or electric rates going through the roof. They don't pay for the roads, but are holier than thou with their eco bull shit. The day of reckoning is coming.

If people want zero emissions ride a fucking horse. Seriously. They're modestly fast in an urban settings. Exponentially cheaper than any EV on the market. Feed is less than gas.

EV owners just need to come out of the closet. The want a zippy car because they couldn't afford the fast ICE cars. Until they realize golf carts have been electric for 40 years, they won't get it. Sure there are gas carts, and are cheaper to operate, but EV tech has been around for everyone's lifetimes. Talk to a golf cart distributor. 99% of them us gas because it's cheaper. They only lease electric carts because of sound to yuppie country clubs that don't want sound when they're swinging a club.

WookieMan says

If people want zero emissions ride a fucking horse. Seriously. They're modestly fast in an urban settings. Exponentially cheaper than any EV on the market. Feed is less than gas.

You ever own a horse? They're not cheap, they need regular maintenance, you can't just have one, you need at least two, or some other companion animal like a donkey or something.

My grandparents had horses when they were young instead of cars, they would never want to go back to that.

richwicks says

WookieMan says

If people want zero emissions ride a fucking horse. Seriously. They're modestly fast in an urban settings. Exponentially cheaper than any EV on the market. Feed is less than gas.

You ever own a horse? They're not cheap, they need regular maintenance, you can't just have one, you need at least two, or some other companion animal like a donkey or something.

My grandparents had horses when they were young instead of cars, they would never want to go back to that.

I'm in the country. I literally was hanging out with horse people Sunday. Hell weekly, good people. It's cheaper than a Tesla by a large margin. They could ride it into town in 4 minutes if they wanted to go quick. We have human shit on streets in cities, so what's the difference? Get a horse. It's undoubtedly cheaper than a Tesla or any other full EV car maker. More green/eco than a Tesla. For the range a horse is probably better anyway.

WookieMan says

I'm in the country. I literally was hanging out with horse people Sunday. Hell weekly, good people. It's cheaper than a Tesla by a large margin. They could ride it into town in 4 minutes if they wanted to go quick.

Well, I know how inconvenient they are. My sister and husband owned one, you can over-feed it, you have to get silage for it in the winter, they can be unpredictable.

It's definitely cheaper than a Tesla, but it's quite bit to own one. You don't just pop down to the store, and then get back and leave it in the garage, or even the pasture.

WookieMan says

We have human shit on streets in cities, so what's the difference?

I'd much rather step in horse shit than human shit. Horse manure, it's just a bunch of plants, it's not rank like human feces.

richwicks says

Well, I know how inconvenient they are.

It's work for sure. Cheaper than an overpriced car though as you yourself say. Most EV drivers are going a couple miles. There's no utility to them. You can accelerate 0-30 in 1 second. Great. Then need to charge it for 30 minutes if not hours overnight with your $20k solar panels. What a deal....

I'll take the horse. Not joking either. Give me a free horse or EV, I'll take the horse. I'll just take the vehicle that I can fuel up in 3 minutes and go about my day. Or a horse. Both are better than an EV. I don't even like horses either.

Patrick says

That’s that CARBOB price premium, Renewable Fuel Standard and State Taxes/Fees staring us in the face. Doing absolutely fuck all to actually make any kind of difference for the better in our horribly retarded state.

On our way back from Surprise Valley in Modoc County, CA we bought diesel in Carson City area at $4.12 per gallon then kicked ourselves because down the road in Minden it was $3.64. Also, in Oroville CA at the Feather River Rancheria they had $3.99 diesel. Here in my town it's $5.29

WookieMan says

I don't think the EV lovers understand this. A good percentage of the population simply won't buy them, specifically men.

Yup. They don't want to understand it.

It's ideological too. Not just men. Hence probably why the EV fluffers don't want to admit to this. And if they do, then they must descent into a 'Deplorable' type rant.





Retirement communities are big on EV golf carts. My parents have one as do most of their neighbors.

WookieMan says

Give me a free horse or EV, I'll take the horse.

True, you cannot stump-broke an EV.

Maybe posted before.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/05/democrat-run-california-imposes-secret-50-cent-per/

An emissions reduction program by an environmental regulator will lead to a 50-cent per gallon of gasoline increase, according to a report by a state environment regulator.

Last year the California Air Resources Board (CARB) said gas prices would increase by 50 cents next year and every year after in order to reduce emissions.

This is in addition to California’s existing gas tax!

Palm Beach County, $3.43 today.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Retirement communities are big on EV golf carts. My parents have one as do most of their neighbors.

Golf carts are literally the best use for batteries if the community/village/city allows it. I use mine to get around since the speed limits are 25mph, so you can't get yourself in trouble on a cart. They're quiet. And what I can't stand is EV drivers just not admitting they're fun to drive. I get the speed and torque flooring the pedal. Is that worth $30-50k more than a similar ICE car? No. It's basic math really.

When I leave town it's a full sized V8 SUV. Mine is 14 years old, 232k miles. Minor repairs and oil changes an EV wouldn't need. I 100% would need a new battery with an EV though with the miles and age. $15-20K? That's more than my gas and repairs over the same time frame.

You're better off buying a new car and if it's EV again you're now $60-100k in the hole on a fucking car. I can repair my car now for substantially less than a new car. EV drivers are getting raped, they just don't know it. If I got a sedan like a Toyota Corolla I'd be massively ahead financially. Similar size to a Tesla.

I don't know, I just don't get car people that spend so much money. I need utility and there's not a single EV model that provides anything close to what I need by a long shot. I give no shits about speed or gadgets.

https://slaynews.com/news/new-report-blames-climate-policies-california-high-gas-prices-newsom-big-oil/

New Report Blames Climate Policies for California’s High Gas Prices After Newsom Claimed It Was ‘Big Oil’

A new report from the Energy Policy Research Foundation (EPRF) has concluded that California’s “climate change” policies are to blame for the state’s soaring gas prices.

The confirmation comes despite insistence from Democrat Governor Gavin Newsom that “Big Oil” was to blame for the state’s higher-than-average fuel prices.

According to the EPRF analysis by researcher Max Pyziur, California has several climate policies impacting gasoline prices that are unique to the state.

AAA reported that the average gas price nationwide was around $3.17 a gallon.

In California, however, the average price is $4.67 a gallon.

The study by Pyzier pointed out that gasoline formulations exceeding EPA standards account for 16 cents a gallon of added cost.

California’s Cap and Trade program, an attempt to limit greenhouse gas emissions, is another cause of the higher prices.

This program caps greenhouse gas emissions and charges a fee for those who exceed the “caps.”

California also has an excise tax of 58 cents per gallon, which was only 18 cents a gallon in 2000.

The combination of these policies has made gas cost an average of $1 more per gallon in 2022 and 2023.

Patrick says

AAA reported that the average gas price nationwide was around $3.17 a gallon.

In California, however, the average price is $4.67 a gallon.

Do the math. They have to make up for EV's without taxing them directly. We're at about $3.29 I believe in IL. That $1.50/gallon extra is to pay for EV's and your location.

With a massive refinery in Indiana our bump is only about 10-20¢/gallon. Plus we don't have as many EV's as CA. EV's are costing ICE drivers a ton in places not near the Gulf or with major pipelines/refineries. Basically the entire West coast to the Rockies.

Nothing compared with what happens after refineries close down, once they shut down they are gone and never coming back.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_f2ae7d54-927c-11ef-b60b-5f53fd496ef7.html

CA prices were higher before EVs were a thing. It's the fucking "special formulation".

Patrick says

Touch hyperbolic. Even for CA you’d be driving an F-350 to pay that much. I’ve never paid over $100 for a V8 15mpg SUV from empty. Your standard pickup would be less and a lot at V6’s now that can still haul and tow but more efficient.

Besides taxes the prices are coming down for sure in the next 6 months.