« prev   random   next »

3
2

Did A Ukraine Missile Attack Sink A Major Russian Warship?

By ohomen171 follow ohomen171   2022 Apr 14, 4:03am 437 views  27 comments           share      

#moskva The Russian Ministry of Defense has publicly admitted that its 12,500-ton warship Moskva with a crew of 520 sailors suffered a major exposition in the ship's magazine (the area where all munitions and explosives are kept.) They admitted that all crew members had been evacuated from the ship.
I can tell you that after serving 4.5 years in the US Navy including time on a destroyer, when the crew abandons a ship, it is doomed. I went in-depth. The ship was in rough seas. The crew is in lifeboats and rafts. Rescue efforts for the crew are stymied by rough seas. There are unsubstantiated reports that the warship has capsized.
Ukraine claims that the ship was hit by 2-3 Neptune anti-ship missiles. The story is that the crew of the warship was distracted by a drone flying over the ocean. This has not been confirmed by reliable third-party sources.
There is a plausible alternative explanation of what happened to the ship. Military professionals comment that Russians do a poor job of handling munitions that are stored. Accidents are frequent with explosions and fires at warehouses, ammunition dumps, and ships magazines. This could have been one of these accidents.
1   DooDahMan   2022 Apr 14, 4:19am  

ohomen171 says
Military professionals comment that Russians do a poor job of handling munitions that are stored.


Are these the same ones that determined the cause of the USS Iowa explosion ?

USS Iowa: First Came the Explosion, Then the Cover-Up

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/04/19/uss-iowa-first-came-explosion-then-cover.html?source=patrick.net
3   stereotomy   2022 Apr 14, 7:34am  

It's probable that I know someone who was on the USS Mississippi back in 1943. He was on the next shift. He probably had to clean out the shattered remains of his crewmates. He told me about it once, during a "trading war stories" session with some older veterans. The shit these young men went through back in the day was positively awful.
4   RWSGFY   2022 Apr 14, 9:07am  

DooDahMan says
ohomen171 says
Military professionals comment that Russians do a poor job of handling munitions that are stored.


Are these the same ones that determined the cause of the USS Iowa explosion ?

USS Iowa: First Came the Explosion, Then the Cover-Up

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/04/19/uss-iowa-first-came-explosion-then-cover.html?source=patrick.net


That was a tech from completely different era. Inherently more dangerous stuff than missiles. But Moskva was not sunk by "mishandling of munitions", it was sunk by mis-maintenance of her air defenses:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1514385553231339523?source=patrick.net

The shit which was supposed to shoot down Ukie Neptunes didn't work.
6   Eric Holder   2022 Apr 14, 11:27am  

According to people knowledgeable in naval warfare, Moskva was the only naval asset with a robust set anti-air systems, capable of covering a landing operation. It basically had a naval version of S-300 (which is doing a swell job defending Kyiv, btw). Now that it's gone, all they have is naval version of Buk (the system infamous for bringing down MH-17) on Admiral Essen fregate, which is 1) not enough, 2) was allegedly damaged in the earlier missile strike. Which means that naval landing operation to take Odessa is probably not happening in the next couple of years. If ever.
8   Eric Holder   2022 Apr 14, 2:47pm  

Confirmed by the RuSSonazi MoD:

MOSCOW, April 14 - RIA Novosti. The missile cruiser "Moskva", which was damaged due to the detonation of ammunition, sank during towing, the Defense Ministry said.

"During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the port of destination, due to damage to the hull received during the fire from the detonation of ammunition, the ship lost stability. In the conditions of stormy seas, the ship sank," the military department said.


https://ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783626130.html?source=patrick.net
12   mell   2022 Apr 14, 5:53pm  

Yes! ^^
13   Booger   2022 Apr 15, 3:09am  

It's just a special embarrassment operation.
14   Booger   2022 Apr 15, 3:38am  

The "Moskva" went to the bottom of the sea on purpose in order to denazify the Black Sea's fish population.
15   clambo   2022 Apr 15, 10:25pm  

With every passing day the Russian military embarrasses itself a little more.

What is interesting is how much the West feared these guys for so long.

Putin was better off just talking tough; trying to actually back it up has shown how weak he really is.
16   DooDahMan   2022 Apr 18, 3:25am  

First images 'show Putin's doomed flagship Moskva on fire and sinking into the Black Sea after being shot by Ukraine' as conscripts tell of horrors on board with hundreds thought to have died

Pictures show the ship billowing smoke, sitting low in the water, listing to port with damage on its left side

Images are consistent with Ukrainian claims that they shot it with two missiles before it rolled and sank, and seem to contradict Russian accounts that the vessel went down in rough seas

Came as conscripts who survived the sinking gave first accounts to their families of horrors suffered on board

The pictures, which seem to have been taken from a rescue vessel alongside the stricken Russian warship, show damage its left side along with flames burning below deck and a thick pall of black smoke rising into the sky.

Moskva is shown sitting low in the water, leaning to the port side, and appears to have deployed its lifeboats with no crew visible on board. Its rear helicopter door is also open, suggesting the aircraft has taken off. There also seems to be a firefighting ship behind the vessel which is spraying jets of water into the air.

Multiple black marks scar the port-side of the ship, including several near deck-level where smoke appears to have streamed out of portholes and left marks on the paint. But there are also dark marks close to the waterline that don't match the position of portholes and suggest the ship has sustained external damage.

The images are largely consistent with Ukrainian descriptions of the sinking - that the Moskva was hit by two missiles on its port side which sparked a fire and caused it to roll - and contradict Russia's account which was that the ship suffered a fire and internal explosion in rough seas.

Video has also since emerged which appears to show two rescue vessels approaching the burning ship - one to the left side and one to the right - in which a Russian voice can be heard speaking. One man says 'what the f*** are you doing?' before the short clip ends.

Analysts and experts who reviewed the images say they do appear genuine. It is unlikely that Russia will confirm the authenticity of the pictures, amid a near-total information blackout around the sinking which is a huge embarrassment to Vladimir Putin's beleaguered armed forces.

Moscow did stage what appeared to be a parade of crew members in the port of Sevastopol - in occupied Crimea - on Sunday, during which the captain of the warship and between 150 and 250 members of its crew were shown on camera alongside Black Sea Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov. The Moskva typically carries up to 510 sailors, and there was no word on the whereabouts of the remaining crew or their condition.

But horror accounts of the sinking have started to emerge from conscripts serving on board the ship, with one telling his parents that at least 40 members of the crew were killed with 'many' left missing or maimed with lost limbs after the strike. Hundreds are thought to have died as the vessel went down.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10727703/Ukraine-war-pictures-Russian-warship-Moskva-sinking.html?source=patrick.net
17   Booger   2022 Apr 18, 4:29am  

Isn't the casualty count usually a pretty low % when the ship takes a while to sink like this one did?
19   Eric Holder   2022 Apr 18, 12:16pm  

Booger says
Isn't the casualty count usually a pretty low % when the ship takes a while to sink like this one did?


Yes, provided there were no major explosions/fires on board. Which there were plenty.
20   DooDahMan   2022 Apr 18, 3:39pm  

The sinking of Russia's flagship might be a bad sign for the U.S. Navy

It's tempting for Americans to get smug about the sinking of the Moskva, the Russian Navy's flagship in the Black Sea. Whether it was destroyed by Ukrainians or — less plausibly — sunk because of a non-combat onboard explosion of ammunition, the result is both a humiliation and a setback for Vladimir Putin's war efforts. If you're cheering Ukraine's defenders, it's hard not to take some satisfaction in that.

But America's fleet might also be more vulnerable than you think.

For several years now, going back to a pair of collisions separately involving the U.S.S. John S. McCain and U.S.S. Fitzgerald in 2017, there have been a series of reports indicating that the U.S. Navy is overstretched, overworked, and under-maintained, and thus increasingly vulnerable as it goes about the expensive task of patrolling the world's oceans.

A February report by the Government Accountability Office broke down the ugly details of how Navy personnel are struggling to keep their ships running properly. "Some crewmembers provided examples of parts such as electrical safety equipment being on backorder for up to 2 years and described difficulties locating consumable materials such as filters, specific types of oil, and protective clothing for themselves," the GAO reported. "Ten of the 16 ships' crews we met with stated that they resorted to cannibalizing parts — that is, taking functional parts away from other ships, in turn leaving them less-than-operational — so their respective ships could remain operational."

America might have what is regarded as the most powerful navy in the world — China has the largest, but many of its ships are smaller — but it is clearly fragile. And that's a problem.

"The U.S. Navy is on the verge of strategic bankruptcy," Christopher Dougherty, a former assistant defense secretary, wrote last year. "Its fleet isn't large enough to meet global day-to-day demands for naval forces. Due to repeated deployments and maintenance backlogs, the fleet also isn't ready enough to meet these demands safely, nor can it quickly surge in an emergency." He concluded that "the risk of its debts coming due suddenly (and perhaps violently) will increase."

Even without those challenges, there is also the question of whether the U.S. Navy is built for the modern world.

Just as aircraft carriers once replaced battleships as the backbone of the fleet, there are now questions about whether America's carrier-based fleet is overly vulnerable to a new generation of Chinese anti-ship ballistic missiles. And those questions are likely to get more pertinent if it turns out the Ukrainians really did take out the Moskva with their new Neptune missile.

America has spent much of the 21st century learning that the overwhelming power of its armed forces isn't always so overwhelming. The sinking of the Moskva is a sign that such a lesson might also extend to the U.S. Navy. Finding out the hard way might be disastrous.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-sinking-of-russia-s-flagship-might-be-a-bad-sign-for-the-u-s-navy/ar-AAWl1Vb?ocid=BingHp01&cvid=3bd427b99c934d0ab21ad859e2f9138d&source=patrick.net
21   Hugh_Mongous   2022 Apr 18, 9:32pm  

DooDahMan says
The sinking of Russia's flagship might be a bad sign for the U.S. Navy

It's tempting for Americans to get smug about the sinking of the Moskva, the Russian Navy's flagship in the Black Sea. Whether it was destroyed by Ukrainians or — less plausibly — sunk because of a non-combat onboard explosion of ammunition, the result is both a humiliation and a setback for Vladimir Putin's war efforts. If you're cheering Ukraine's defenders, it's hard not to take some satisfaction in that.

But America's fleet might also be more vulnerable than you think.


I doubt America's fleet would sail "in predictable patterns" for weeks on end, keeping their anti-air systems in transport condition while engaged in major conflict. Because this is exactly what these low IQ Russian Navy cunts did. So as long as America's fleet is not learning naval tactics from Russians it will be fine.
22   Hugh_Mongous   2022 Apr 18, 9:40pm  

Interesting thought:

The burning cruiser "Moskva" was deliberately scuttled.

The photographs published by Censor show that even after the missiles hit, the detonation of the ammunition load and the fire that broke out, the Moskva cruiser remained buoyant, although it received a significant roll to the port side.
However, judging by the external traces of the fire visible on the hull, it can be concluded that almost everything burned out from the inside.
Perhaps, as a result of the detonation of the ammunition, the internal partitions were deformed, some doors between the compartments jammed, and some could not prevent the spread of smoke. Jammed doors made it impossible to evacuate the surviving personnel, and the inability to isolate the premises with other doors led to the fact that many of the military personnel who were there simply suffocated in the combustion products.
Despite the fact that the ship remained buoyant, its towing to Sevastopol would have attracted the mass attention of the inhabitants, and it would not have been possible to avoid mass photography.
In addition, it would be necessary to extract hundreds of bodies of the dead crew members, send them for a forensic medical examination, and data on the number of dead would immediately seep into the information field. Hundreds of ambulances arriving at the port and departing in the direction of the city morgues could not be hidden, as well as mass funerals.
It would also have to officially investigate both the nature of the damage and declare the cause of their occurrence, as well as figure out why the vaunted anti-missile and air defense system of the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet turned out to be completely useless. What would have been revealed as a result of this investigation can now only be guessed at.
So the only "pragmatic" move of the Russian military command in this extremely unpleasant situation was to simply sink the ship as far from the coast as possible, hiding both the number of victims and the technical details of the disaster, and skirting responsibility.
23   Tenpoundbass   2022 Apr 18, 9:47pm  

Now that I have seen the pictures of the supposedly sunken ship and the actual ship that was scuttled.
I'm more convinced of my theory that Putin is holing back with antiquated outdated shit, to allow the Ukraine, via US through a NATO proxy, to think they have kicked Russia's ass.
There's no way in hell the ship in the press reports are the same fucking ship they say they sunk. The ship that was sunk had prosthetics to make it look like the new ship, but it was not.
24   AmericanKulak   2022 Apr 18, 9:53pm  

I see after the COVID debacle, some old posters under new accounts are showing up because of Ukraine.
25   Hugh_Mongous   2022 Apr 18, 10:12pm  

Tenpoundbass says
Now that I have seen the pictures of the supposedly sunken ship and the actual ship that was scuttled.
I'm more convinced of my theory that Putin is holing back with antiquated outdated shit, to allow the Ukraine, via US through a NATO proxy, to think they have kicked Russia's ass.


If Moskva, the biggest ship on the Black Sea, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet, modernized to the tune of $700M and with great fanfare just two years ago is "antiquated shit" rolled out to "fool NATO into thinking that Ukraine kicked Russia ass", what else do they have up their sleeve there? Their so-called "aircraft carrier" Kuznetsov? It's out of commission as of now. And even if it wasn't, Bosporus is closed to any outside warship from the start of the hostilities. The rest of the stuff they have in the Black Sea is smaller/weaker than Moskva.

Tenpoundbass says

There's no way in hell the ship in the press reports are the same fucking ship they say they sunk. The ship that was sunk had prosthetics to make it look like the new ship, but it was not.


Good. We'll see the real Moskva in action soon then, right? Except the "ship with prosthetics" has been tracked by satellites and drones all the way from Sebastopol for many weeks and there is nothing else of that size anywhere else. You don't exactly hide a rocket cruiser in some fisherman's shack, mkay?

Please register to comment:

about   best comments   contact   latest images   one year ago   suggestions