patrick.net

AD says

So many of this type of Biden admin decisions explains why I think Trump is trying to do as much as he can to reverse the damage.

Nothing is permanent until it's established by a law passed through the Congress. All that EO shit is reversible.

Eric Holder says

AD says

So many of this type of Biden admin decisions explains why I think Trump is trying to do as much as he can to reverse the damage.

Nothing is permanent until it's established by a law passed through the Congress. All that EO shit is reversible.

You do realize Birdbrain Biden gave away about $175 billion for student loan forgiveness despite the SCOTUS ruling ?

Birdbrain Biden was Obama's 3rd term but with a lot more radicalism as Biden admin had more to prove, so whatever you said does not apply to Biden giveaways and freebies like mortgage relief, student loan forgiveness, etc

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/22/politics/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-supreme-court/index.html

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AD says

You do realize Birdbrain Biden gave away about $175 billion for student loan forgiveness despite the SCOTUS ruling ?

Birdbrain Biden was Obama's 3rd term but with a lot more radicalism as Biden admin had more to prove, so whatever you said does not apply to Biden giveaways and freebies like mortgage relief, student loan forgiveness, etc

So how any of this contradict the fact that any EO reversing this can be in turn reversed by President OAC in 2029?

Eric Holder says

AD says

You do realize Birdbrain Biden gave away about $175 billion for student loan forgiveness despite the SCOTUS ruling ?

Birdbrain Biden was Obama's 3rd term but with a lot more radicalism as Biden admin had more to prove, so whatever you said does not apply to Biden giveaways and freebies like mortgage relief, student loan forgiveness, etc

So how any of this contradict the fact that any EO reversing this can be in turn reversed by President OAC in 2029?

Yes I agree, as go back to the Biden admin saying they were throwing gold bricks off a sinking ship before Trump's inauguration.

A lot of those gold bricks are grants for Stacie Abrams style NGO's that funnel the money to pass-throughs like Act Blue and Bend The Arc, which fund the AntiFa activists that terrorize and vandalize as well as stuff absentee ballot boxes.

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Eric Holder says

So how any of this contradict the fact that any EO reversing this can be in turn reversed by President OAC in 2029?

If it works. That's the key. If an EO works it's hard to reverse it even if it's another party. Also Congress can make it law up until 2026 or 2028 if R's keep Congress at midterms. We're not even at 100 days. Congress hasn't had time to legislate anything.

There's a lot of turn over in the House with 2 year terms learning the ropes. It will be fall before anything gets legislated. Basically end of year to start beginning judgement.

WookieMan says

If it works. That's the key. If an EO works it's hard to reverse it even if it's another party.

I'm talking about all the Birdbrain Biden giveaways and freebies that WORKED like the student loan forgiveness and the COVID mortgage payments that were still handouts AFTER Birdbrain Biden said the COVID pandemic was over.

So YES IT WORKED by Biden admin to give out as much money as they could even with SCOTUS ruling against them.

WookieMan says

If an EO works it's hard to reverse it even if it's another party.

What world do you live on?

WookieMan says

If it works. That's the key.

No. The key is it's easily reverseable. Works today, gone tomorrow. Compare it to stuff encoded in laws by Congress, like Obamacare. If it was implemented by an EO it would be GONE in 2017.

AmericanKulak says

Get ready for more inventory!

I would love that.

Patrick says

AmericanKulak says

Get ready for more inventory!

I would love that.

I want 10% mortgages - bring back the 80's mutherfuckers!

stereotomy says

I want 10% mortgages - bring back the 80's mutherfuckers!

10% in the 80s? In 1982, it was 14% or more.

HeadSet says

stereotomy says

I want 10% mortgages - bring back the 80's mutherfuckers!

10% in the 80s? In 1982, it was 14% or more.

In 1982 the economy was in the shitter though.

WookieMan says

Costs them more on foreclosure.

Costs the taxpayer you mean. Let the free market do it's job. Although the rules do need to be altered to make it worth both the banks and the houseowner to try to negotiate. For example, not making taking a loss for the mortgage writer/holder tax deductible if the note was written less than 7 years ago, thus rightfully making the banks share in the responsibility of issuing too easy credit/making the loan in the first place.

There's too much focus on the unsophisticated homeloaner instead of the bank fulla experts who constantly talk about how smart and educated they are to justify their big salaries and commish and bonuses. Let these wise great ones have a little responsibility for their permanent plateaus and loose lending standards.

I'm not saying the retarded buyer doesn't have responsibility, but they'll pay in bankruptcy. Let the bank have to eat a less/non-tax deductible loss, too, since it will disincentivize banks from being obnoxiously exhuberant in writing the loans.

AmericanKulak says

Let these wise great ones have a little responsibility for their permanent plateaus and loose lending standards.

Remember that the banks were forced to loosen credit standards by the government to allow more minorities buy homes.

HeadSet says

stereotomy says

I want 10% mortgages - bring back the 80's mutherfuckers!

10% in the 80s? In 1982, it was 14% or more.

Even better!

HeadSet says

Remember that the banks were forced to loosen credit standards by the government to allow more minorities buy homes.

In many cases, yes. I'm sure the FHA program Trump just ended is overwhelmingly not just minority, but imingrate.

Another great idea: FHA limited to 15 year loans, though the VA can still do 20-30.

We gotta help the housing market reset.

Nothing will smash socialism and restore disposable income and savings faster than pounding house prices and rent to the ground. Make it weird to be paying more than 25% for housing costs. It's going to happen and it has to happen, now is a good time. It's always a good time to send real estate back to reality!

AmericanKulak says

HeadSet says

Remember that the banks were forced to loosen credit standards by the government to allow more minorities buy homes.

In many cases, yes. I'm sure the FHA program Trump just ended is overwhelmingly not just minority, but imingrate.

Before the Great Depression (a euphemism used instead of the panics that preceded it). housing loans were 15 year balloon loans- interest only with principal due at the end of the loan.

The fact is, before WWII, most people living in cities rented. The non-rich people who owned their properties were farmers, who were slaves to the bankers for loans for seed and then later at harvest, for paying laborers.

Over the vast majority of human history worldwide, property owners were the minority. Everyone else rented, or were serfs or slaves.

The post WWII housing boom was a multimillennial economic anomaly. it will not be repeated unless our current globalist technocracy completely collapses and we are reduced to subsistence living. "Red in tooth and claw."

AmericanKulak says

Another great idea: FHA limited to 15 year loans, though the VA can still do 20-30.

Agree, but why let the VA do 20-30? That will just increase the costs of homes near military bases.

stereotomy says

who were slaves to the bankers for loans for seed

This is one thing I never understood. Did Jefferson on his big acreage or a Puritan freeholder on a 40 acre farm have to borrow money to keep some seedgrain?

What I heard is that farmers way overexpanded during WW1 to take advantage of big demand for grains, then after the War when European men left the military, in the next few years their output was restored and their imports from the US declined greatly.

US Farmers were then stuck with big loans for expanding in size and tools in a declining commodity in too much volume to dispose of economically.

stereotomy says

The post WWII housing boom was a multimillennial economic anomaly.

Correct. Thae ability to buy a home was greatly enhance by the invention of the self-amortizing loan and the fact that a working man could earn enough to house and feed a family. Even today though, about 40% of homes are paid off with no mortgage.

Eric Holder says

All that EO shit is reversible.

Not if you're a Republican president trying to reverse it!

WookieMan says

We're not even at 100 days. Congress hasn't had time to legislate anything.

They are sitting on their hairy little asses. Again. Same with the administration except for tariffs and deportations. Like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the foot ball.

We have Barbie for AG who appears to just like going on Faux News.

By this time in the Bidet admin over 400 protestors were arrested from the event at the Capital and Judicial activist lawsuits against Trump were already in full swing.

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

They are sitting on their hairy little asses.

To me its progress as far as not continuing Birdbrain Biden agenda and programs like his ~$175 billion for student loan forgiveness, the COVID mortgage payouts, USAID corruption, and reforms to aid to Ukraine.

I think Trump is going to adjust tariffs over time which means reduction of tariffs.

But a lot of what Trump is doing is likely leading to him likely reporting as early as this December about his administration's achievements such as manufacturing jobs, reduction in the trade deficit, decrease in deficit spending, etc

2022 - Home prices will go up forever, there are bidding wars

2023 - OK prices stopped going up, but there's no inventory

2024 - OK there's inventory, but prices have only gone down a little

2025 - OK there's a lot of inventory and prices are falling, but they won't fall much

2026 - OK prices are falling, but they won't return to prepandemic levels

2027 - OK my house is upside down, does anyone know anything about short sales?

2028 - OK I can't believe there was such a massive bubble, housing will never go back to those prices.

2029 - wow there are a lot of vacant houses, the boomers owned way too many homes

2030 - they're giving away empty houses in Ohio now

2035 - wow entire towns are totally empty.

"The median home price is actually up"

Yeah, because the housing market for people with no money issues is still fine and dandy for the most part, and while slower they still sell. Since only closed and sold homes are counted, it can go up while home sale volume plummets, especially under the $300k mark.

Just like if half the kids stop taking the SAT, but the top 10% of students are still taking it in numbers only slightly less from before, the median SAT score goes up.

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

We have Barbie for AG who appears to just like going on Faux News.

Not impressed with the Dakota dog executor, either. Homeland Security Barbie.

I think Bondi is a reliable person who will do right when it crosses her desk - eventually after much delay - but not a real go-getter with a killer instinct.

MolotovCocktail says

2035 - wow entire towns are totally empty.

sounds like the demographics bomb in Italy especially southern Italy

the only thing is that the homes that are vacant may be at least 80 years old and past their useful life in "old communities" like Midwest rust belt , so they already were set to be demolished

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I'm living on a different planet than some of you people I guess. In the past week I've driven 60 miles from my house to 3 different locations. No for sale signs anywhere. North, south and west of me. That's a big area, yes rural, but there's nothing for sale.

Cities are going to get fucked in this cycle more than anything. Since those prices are higher national median and local median prices are going to plummet and look like shit, but it's not that bad in most of rural America.

I think most active users here are in coastal areas and seemingly don't travel inland. Texas is kind of part of the inland group that is similar to coastal people. I've had multiple friends move to FL only to move back. CO the same. TX the same. Moving back to IL... grass isn't always greener on the other side. So home prices in those places could take a beating.

WookieMan says

I've had multiple friends move to FL only to move back. CO the same

Yes for Florida as I believe in general it will correct by about 20% from its all time high in 2022.

Its already down about 11% where I live in Panama City Beach, and some townhomes are selling at their 2006 market values.

I had a RE agent that told me it would take 20 years for many real estate properties to recover from the Clinton housing bubble (2003 to 2006).

I'm not sure about Colorado Springs as far as more Californians moving there especially with large insurance payouts of +$1 million for their burned down homes.

AD says

I had a RE agent that told me it would take 20 years for many real estate properties to recover from the Clinton housing bubble (2003 to 2006).

My folks got their condo in Navarre Beach, FL about 60 minutes west of PCB for $85k in 1998. Sold it for around $350k in 2005. Boomer bubble.

My mom just got everything out of the FL market they had about 3-4 years ago. Wish they would have gotten Wisconsin property. My dad was a gambler though that took stupid risks. I do love the Panhandle and wish he had just kept the property in the family.

WookieMan says

I'm living on a different planet than some of you people

We have only been trying to tell you this for years.

It's not that 'your planet' isn't valid/real for you and your neighbors. It's just that usually isn't for the rest of us.

AmericanKulak says

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

We have Barbie for AG who appears to just like going on Faux News.

Not impressed with the Dakota dog executor, either. Homeland Security Barbie.

I think Bondi is a reliable person who will do right when it crosses her desk - eventually after much delay - but not a real go-getter with a killer instinct.

Sadly, the whole admin is a gang of bimbos. And not all of them are even pretty.

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

Eric Holder says

All that EO shit is reversible.

Not if you're a Republican president trying to reverse it!

Crying about "hypocricy" is weak sause. The only way to do it right is through Congress.

MolotovCocktail says

It's not that 'your planet' isn't valid/real for you and your neighbors. It's just that usually isn't for the rest of us.

Then move? I feel like I'm talking to a whiney liberal. NIMBY type. "Wah my housing and rents are too high, let it crash."

There are choices in life. Fix the problem or deal with your choice. Move, make more money, get a better job, etc.

I'm sorry, but there are a lot of whiney users here. Hell people thinking Trump is gonna come save them. This is a housing thread. If your housing situation is shit, move. If you have any skills move to IL and get a $200k house and a $75-100k job with a high school degree. Hell Iowa or Nebraska.

Nope... everyone here needs their weather and coastal regions. Complaining about a decision you make is weak. Keep looking at your statistics and thinking the rest of the country is in your self induced predicament. They're not.

RWSGFY says

Crying about "hypocricy" is weak sause. The only way to do it right is through Congress.

Hmm, for some reason I don't believe you cared when Biden was in office.

GNL says

RWSGFY says

Crying about "hypocricy" is weak sause. The only way to do it right is through Congress.

Hmm, for some reason I don't believe you cared when Biden was in office.

You didn't read my posts then.

PS. Have you read "The Art of the Deal", btw?

I could be wrong. If so, that’s on me. My bad. But I’ll just say that this is where we are now imo. The rubicon has been crossed (unless this is all a uniparty game that is). Both sides will go after the other in worse and worse ways. I think.

AD says

sounds like the demographics bomb in Italy especially southern Italy

Yep! Already in Sicily. Once upon a time, even 200 years ago, Sicilian farmland was a goldmine. Before that, 2000 years ago, it was the "First Egypt" of Rome, the first major grain province Rome dependent on for imports. Equivalent of Napa Valley farmland today.

Now they can't give it away because of tax liens and total lack of employment. Italy is basically telling seniors they're not getting elder care unless they leave certain smaller islands off Sicily as it's simply too expensive to maintain services there for the couple of hundred elderly still remaining

WookieMan says

Texas is kind of part of the inland group that is similar to coastal people.

Texas has the next biggest volume and biggest drops after Florida (130,000 unsold homes).

TN also is dropping big and their rental market is collapsing.

Austin is collapsing in volume and price.

To bore you to death with repetition, we're looking at a long term demographic crunch that is going to happen regardless of Economic Conditions. The "We didn't build enough" is incorrect, even with 30M illegals. People say "We didn't build enough" and then go on to talk about all the massive amounts of new building and how their town has like tripled in area these past 20-30 years and the traffic sucks.

People think when I talk about Florida having ~$150k modest (2-3 bed, 1.5-2 bath) townhouses and ranches just a few miles off the beach being like an old fart talking about 25c hamburgers in the 1970s or me (a slightly less aged Old Fart) talking about Hershey Bars being 40c in 1990.

The difference is, these WERE the prices not 50 years ago when Peter Frampton Came Alive, or when the KLF was channeling the Justified And Ancients of MuMu, but a decade ago - or mere years ago in 2019.

Some random ass examples across Florida of ordinary houses I found in less than 5 minutes without trying, from every corner of the state. Tried to pick 80s-90s builds of similar size.

Central East
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/604-Eloise-Ave-Titusville-FL-32796/43375026_zpid/

Panhandle
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7551-Kelsey-Dr-Panama-City-FL-32404/42751645_zpid/

Jax Metro Area
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1410-Runes-Ct-Middleburg-FL-32068/61183179_zpid/
Tampa Metro Area
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/616-Pent-St-Tarpon-Springs-FL-34689/47005926_zpid/
Orlando Metro Area (Delrico, haha)
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2108-E-Parkton-Dr-Deltona-FL-32725/47987033_zpid/

They're all grossly overpriced. Especially after considering the 30% increases in property tax rates, insurance, and the higher mortgage rates. And not getting into Florida's anemic wage gains which are massively outstripped by inflation that they are really substantial pay cuts