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housing prices peak 2


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2022 Apr 29, 9:29pm   603,069 views  5,669 comments

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net

Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.

Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.

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5484   Ceffer   2024 Oct 19, 11:22am  

This is why God invented wetsuits and the one eyed Jack O'Neill became famous and wealthy. As you go north, more rippy and tossy, cold and windy. Santa Cruz is a large bay inlet facing south and the fog tends to slide off and around it. The water is calmer, but still gets the wave energy from the ocean, which is why surfers like it.

The spot in the picture is at the juncture where the coast turns back north from west and becomes much more rugged, windy and weather-y.
5485   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 19, 11:25am  

WookieMan says

I take 20 minute shits


You're gonna blow a gasket if you keep that up!
5486   Ceffer   2024 Oct 19, 11:40am  

WookieMan says






The guy in the double lot next to the umbrella thingy inherited the lot with a long term lease from his parents and pays a couple hundred a month in lot rent fees. I bought a surfboard from him years ago.

The history is the park had rent control down to that couple hundred a month, so the Appalachian trailers on the lots were selling for 500k to a million based on the rent control subsidy. A large Chicago real estate firm bought the development then lawfared the rent control out of existence and raised the lot fees overnight to thousands, which squelched the old speculation in its tracks and left a lot of 'investors' and oldsters high and dry. However, many lower rates were preserved for various residents under various circumstances. My wife knows a lady who still lives there under the older plot rents. You can buy an old trailer there for lower prices now, you just have to pay the much higher rents and HOA stuff.
5487   Ceffer   2024 Oct 19, 6:03pm  

More cheer. Probably something that has been in somebody's family for generations but cost basically no tax to just keep (but not fix up) You see these weed strewn houses all over Santa Cruz. Somebody decided to finally liquidate. Smaller shed is the 'mother-in-law', LOL!

A tear down it appears and the payment is the lot price, not that close to the beach, either. Lot extends over to the right.




5488   WookieMan   2024 Oct 19, 10:28pm  

That's depressing. Not the price really, but the fact someone gives no shits about a property. That's 2-4 weeks of someone that's handy by themselves to make it look nice. I hate shitty looking properties.

My neighbor across the street pisses me off big time. Weeds in the flower beds. Mows bi-weekly and has long ass grass. There's always a car there so it's not like they're not at home. Plant some low maintenance perennials, toss some mulch down. Put fabric down to slow/stop weeds and water when it's dry. It's a nice brick ranch too.

Your front yard is your personality. I can tell if you're lazy or hard working immediately. Because throwing in a few plants and cleaning things up is a 4-6 hour Sunday job.
5489   AmericanKulak   2024 Oct 19, 10:56pm  

I think big grassy lawns are a waste and a PITA.

That being said, no excuse not to make it look park like. Put up some dwarf pines or evergreen bushes, some gravel, make a few patches of perennial herbs, etc. You can have a low maintenance, nice "Cottage" landscape in a weekend or two and then only need a once a month hedge patrol and rake or weed out. If you live away from Yup Codes, plant that shit in fruit and veggies.
5490   WookieMan   2024 Oct 19, 11:04pm  

AmericanKulak says

I think big grassy lawns are a waste and a PITA.

No doubt it's work. I just get pissed when I see people that just let their yard look like shit. With kids I like having a lawn. We have parks, but we're small and they're built towards kids not my kids ages. So we set up yard games like badminton, frisbee games, etc. It's nice to be able to just go out back and hang.

I concur with your point though. Doesn't take a whole lot to make a yard look decent. I don't mind the lawn because I have a zero turn and can knock out 1/2 acre in 20 minutes drinking a beer listening to music and the wife thinks I'm "working" lol.
5491   AmericanKulak   2024 Oct 19, 11:10pm  

I find lawnmowing to be relaxing. I wouldn't know about zero turns, the year I started mowing was the year Dad's riding mower broke. Wasn't too bad, a mix tape on the walkman. Later on in life, I only had a fifth of an acre with half in a backyard garden and the border was grapes coming up across a fence-trellis. Not much to mow after factoring in the detached garage.

I just weed whackered it in the front, not worth getting a mower for so small a patch of grass.

The hippies asked to take my grapes and left me mason jars of wine, which was nice.

Edit: Added "Later on in Life" to separate the walkman-mowing in my childhood home from the weed whacking in my small Oregon cottage later in life.
5492   Ceffer   2024 Oct 19, 11:24pm  

Well, at least the real estate agent had the decency to remove the dried out corpses of the crack/fentanyl addicts. However, that probably added 100K to the asking price.
5493   HeadSet   2024 Oct 20, 7:11am  

AmericanKulak says

a mix tape on the walkman

I still have a Walkman but have not used it in 20 years. Mp3 and now phone/bluetooth kinds took over.
5494   WookieMan   2024 Oct 20, 8:39am  

HeadSet says

AmericanKulak says


a mix tape on the walkman

I still have a Walkman but have not used it in 20 years. Mp3 and now phone/bluetooth kinds took over.

I'm just glad there's quality wireless over year ear headphones that don't break the bank. $100ish. I prefer those when mowing to drown out the mower noise.

The negative with a fenced yard is I sometimes smack the fence posts and don't notice/hear it. I go fast. I have broken the pins that attach the deck. Whoops. I knew how to fix it, but it was easier to take it to John Deere and have them do a whole tune up, fix my damage and swap in new blades.

Moral of the story is everyone should take care of their yard. I'm guessing that place Ceffer posted would go for $100k more just making the yard look "pretty" to get more showings.
5495   HeadSet   2024 Oct 20, 10:52am  

WookieMan says

I'm guessing that place Ceffer posted would go for $100k more just making the yard look "pretty" to get more showings.

So, you are saying that at today's labor rates that would be a wash?
5496   Ceffer   2024 Oct 20, 11:58am  

To make the yard look pretty, you'd have to tear the house down to the studs. That's assuming it even has studs. It looks like a glorified lean-to.
5497   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 20, 12:04pm  

If I remember correctly I think in CA you can tear down to the foundation, leave one wall up, extend, rebuild whatever and your property taxes will not be effected?
5498   Ceffer   2024 Oct 20, 12:13pm  

SoTex says


If I remember correctly I think in CA you can tear down to the foundation, leave one wall up, extend, rebuild whatever and your property taxes will not be effected?

Dunno about that, maybe, but once you get the corruptocracy of permits and inspectors involved in Santa Cruz, it's game over.

A lot of houses sell and re-sell with unapproved additions and features that would not pass these inspections and requirements, but are still bought like hand me downs. The Realtors just make the buyers sign some kind of waiver.

I know three people who left the outsides intact but entirely redid the insides of the shells with new wiring, insulation, walls, etc. etc. It reduces some square footage because you have to build everything on the inside. They did not report anything to the so called authorities, it was all on the down low, and they kept the lower tax base intact.

I laugh because one guy's rusty old trailer looks so bad I told him burglars leave him care packages. However, on the inside its a little paradise and he has a complete gourmet cooks kitchen.

My neighbor across the street did the same with a trailer, and he's' an artisan craftsmen, so the inside is quite nice, all on the down low.

Same with people behind me. Guy was a contractor and just rebuilt the shell home from the inside, never got any permits or inspections. His wife inherited the place, so the inherited Prop 13 taxes are zip. Where there's a will, there's a way.
5499   WookieMan   2024 Oct 20, 12:14pm  

HeadSet says

So, you are saying that at today's labor rates that would be a wash?

Like I said, make it look pretty. Lipstick on a pig. People surprisingly get over dated interiors. But they won't look at the place if the photo look like shit. @GNL could like attest to this. I can from being a broker and semi professional photographer. I know the data.

The last photo Ceffer posted would take 2 people a weekend to clean up the outside. All MLS' that I know of require the first photo to be the exterior or you're fined. Your first impression is fucked and no one looks at the place. You need showings. Everyone would scroll past that photo.

I'd look at the property as an investment, but I'd come in $200K lower even with high CA prices. I did that with my current house and it paid off.
5500   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 20, 12:26pm  

Looks like it's a myth, or better known as BS:

https://www.keithmessickarchitecture.com/blog-data/2015/1/16/property-taxes

"There are lots of myths in residential design and construction. One of the strongest, most entrenched, is the "leave one wall standing" myth. The premise of this myth is that if one wall is left standing, the project can be classified as a remodel, as opposed to new construction, and it will result in lower property taxes. Unfortunately, this is not true."

I have an uncle who was an airline pilot in the early 80s (and later) who moved from the SF bay area to Houston to be near the Continental hub or whatever. Pilots have a lot of free time so he started building and selling huge houses in Spring Texas during his time off.

I was a little kid but I remember walking around in one of them and him saying, "I couldn't do this shit in CA", even back then it sucked apparently.
5501   WookieMan   2024 Oct 20, 12:52pm  

SoTex says

I was a little kid but I remember walking around in one of them and him saying, "I couldn't do this shit in CA", even back then it sucked apparently.

There are loopholes and they get fixed quickly. I'm finding one out now and going after my village attorney for bull shit. So now he's charging the village to change the ordinance.

My advice is network or have a family member that is an attorney. Pays bigly if they're good. Told them my sister was an attorney for a certain city just last week. Boom, everything got done that I needed. Also my dad had a reputation with municipalities while he was alive. #asshole.
5502   Blue   2024 Oct 20, 1:56pm  

SoTex says

If I remember correctly I think in CA you can tear down to the foundation, leave one wall up, extend, rebuild whatever and your property taxes will not be effected?

I know one anecdotal evidence when attended to housewarming ceremony of relatively wealthy family. Found one big patch at the back of the new house. Later, I saw a related message on this site from Eman that house to be build with two work orders with interesting wording that should keep 1978 Prop 13 tax! That patch can be fixed with second work order.
5503   WookieMan   2024 Oct 20, 2:09pm  

Blue says

I know one anecdotal evidence when attended to housewarming ceremony of relatively wealthy family. Found one big patch at the back of the new house. Later, I saw a related message on this site from Eman that house to be build with two work orders with interesting wording that should keep 1978 Prop 13 tax! That patch can be fixed with second work order.

At some point your guys state is going bankrupt. It's a when not if. You haven't had the full exodus yet. It's almost weekly I hear of a big celebrity leaving. That's not small tax dollars at 13% on the top end.

You could be a doctor, IT or nurse in Iowa or Arkansas for a fraction of the cost with the same pay. Money saved, you travel more. Problem solved. Cheaper house, money saved. Just fly to the beach monthly with the $4k/mo you could save. Or mountains. I highly doubt working people have that much time to enjoy the CA weather. Especially with kids.
5506   GNL   2024 Oct 21, 12:49pm  

WookieMan says

But they won't look at the place if the photo look like shit. GNL could like attest to this.

I guess it depends on who's looking for what. Maybe a shitty FE photo would attract the investor types the Realtors is trying to attract? But, yeah, for the most part, in my experience, Realtors want homes to be in perfect condition all the way down to the lawn and all the way up to the roof. It's pretty difficult for a buyer's agent to negotiate on a home that is in perfect condition.
5507   Ceffer   2024 Oct 21, 3:25pm  

'Nother teeny sugar shack around the UCSC alluvial meth field. At least this one is renovated. Wonder what you could buy in Houston for this amount.

5509   AD   2024 Oct 22, 2:08am  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says







30 year mortgage rate is usually pegged to the US 10 Year Treasury, and about 1.5% to 2% more than the 10 Year Treasury rate.

The 10 Year Treasury is usually 1.5% more than annual inflation rate, and now the 10 Year Treasury rate is 4.2%.

If inflation is barely above 0%, then we could see the 30 year mortgage rate at 3%. But from what I've read of economists and Wall Street pundits, we will not see it at 3% for at least the next 20 years.

Perhaps if annual inflation's 12 month moving average is around 2.25%, then the 30 year mortgage rate will steady around 5.5%.

For some buyers, it would help to buy down 4 discount points to lower that rate from 5.5% to 4.5%.

.
5510   AmericanKulak   2024 Oct 22, 10:14am  

Ceffer says


Better get it built out before winter.


LOL, There's a Finnish joke about a guy who killed his nearest neighbor because he was two kilometers away and driving him crazy because he was right up his ass. And another one about "Why are you right on top of me? Find your own train car!"
5511   AmericanKulak   2024 Oct 22, 10:25am  

Because of Halloween, here is a terrifying moment for Finns.


5512   Ceffer   2024 Oct 22, 10:54am  

My father (Swedish Norwegian) whose parents immigrated from the old country said the Finns were the fiercest and most feared Scandi drunks and liked to fight in bars with knives. I have no idea if there is a reality behind that, but he also indicated that we could have some Laplander in the woodshed. So along with the Laplander and half Irish, maybe I am more than 50 percent subhuman.
5514   WookieMan   2024 Oct 22, 5:33pm  

If you care about interest rates, you're likely below middle class. Even middle class. I give no shits about rates. I get what I want.
5515   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Oct 22, 7:47pm  

Last weekend a Sierra Foothills friend of mine told me her homeowners' policy was cancelled this summer. She found another policy but the premiums are higher. (Till they also cancel).
5516   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Oct 23, 7:44am  

NAR: Existing-Home Sales Decreased to 3.84 million SAAR in September, New Cycle Low

Existing-home sales drew back in September, according to the National Association of REALTORS®. Three out of four major U.S. regions registered sales declines while the West experienced a sales bounce. Year-over-year, sales fell in three regions but grew in the West.

Total existing-home sales – completed transactions that include single-family homes, townhomes, condominiums and co-ops – receded 1.0% from August to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 3.84 million in September. Year-over-year, sales waned 3.5% (down from 3.98 million in September 2023).
...
Total housing inventory registered at the end of September was 1.39 million units, up 1.5% from August and 23.0% from one year ago (1.13 million). Unsold inventory sits at a 4.3-month supply at the current sales pace, up from 4.2 months in August and 3.4 months in September 2023.
emphasis added

The sales rate was below the consensus forecast (but at housing economist Tom Lawler’s estimate).

Sales in September (3.84 million SAAR) were down 1.0% from the previous month and were 3.5% below the September 2023 sales rate.

Housing Inventory Increased in September

The second graph shows nationwide inventory for existing homes.

According to the NAR, inventory increased to 1.39 million in September from 1.37 million the previous month.

Headline inventory is not seasonally adjusted, and inventory usually decreases to the seasonal lows in December and January, and peaks in mid-to-late summer. The third graph shows the year-over-year (YoY) change in reported existing home inventory and months-of-supply. Since inventory is not seasonally adjusted, it really helps to look at the YoY change. Note: Months-of-supply is based on the seasonally adjusted sales and not seasonally adjusted inventory.

Inventory was up 23.0% year-over-year (blue) in September compared to September 2023. Months of supply (red) increased to 4.3 months in September from 4.2 months the previous month.

Looking back to pre-pandemic levels, in September 2019 months-of-supply was at 4.0 months, so there is more supply now, on a months-of-supply basis, than prior to the pandemic! Even though inventory has declined significantly compared to 2019, sales have fallen even more - pushing up months-of-supply.

Sales Year-over-Year and Not Seasonally Adjusted (NSA)

The fourth graph shows existing home sales by month for 2023 and 2024.

Sales declined 3.5% year-over-year compared to September 2023. This was the thirty-seventh consecutive month with sales down year-over-year.

https://calculatedrisk.substack.com/p/nar-existing-home-sales-decreased
5518   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2024 Oct 23, 7:48am  

B.A.C.A.H. says

Sierra Foothills

Beautiful country, significant fire risk.
5522   Patrick   2024 Oct 24, 3:41pm  

https://wolfstreet.com/2024/10/23/demand-destruction-for-existing-homes-sales-in-2024-to-plunge-below-4-million-homes-lowest-since-1995-as-supply-spikes/


Demand Destruction for Existing Homes: Sales in 2024 to Plunge Below 4 Million Homes, Lowest since 1995, as Supply Spikes
by Wolf Richter • Oct 23, 2024 • 135 Comments

Because prices are way too high. Buyers’ Strike deepened even with mortgage rates at 2-year lows at the time of those sales. But rates have spiked since then. ...







The NAR has been blaming everything it can drag by its hairs except the actual problem: Prices are too high and have killed demand. Much lower prices would stimulate demand – and commissions for Realtors because they’d make more sales. Why is this so hard to come to grips with?



5523   AD   2024 Oct 24, 11:08pm  

Patrick says

Demand Destruction for Existing Homes


There still are not enough homes that are "priced to sell" :-(

The median home price needs to be at least 20% below 2022 all time high price level.

This is based on for every 1% increase in the 30 year mortgage rate, there should be a 10% decrease in price.

Also I adjusted down to 20% since household income and wages have increased since early 2022.

.

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