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housing prices peak 2


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2022 Apr 29, 9:29pm   605,538 views  5,680 comments

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net

Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.

Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.

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4189   Blue   2024 Jan 28, 9:11pm  

Eman says

you’re running your mouth for higher taxes without offering alternative solutions.

Show me one place where did I ask for "higher taxes"!
Oh! I see you pay almost nothing for properties purchased years back under 1978 Prop 13 tax based on purchase price and worries that get-rid of Prop 13 put you in line with every peasant/victim who buy at bottom of Ponzy pyramid scheme of taxes based on today's market price! which you call "higher taxes" ;)
Look at message 4188 to understand your rich commie flawed logic.
4190   Eman   2024 Jan 28, 9:23pm  

@Blue,

I will give you one last chance to respond. If you think Prop 13 is the holy grail, reset all taxes including the state sales tax, income tax, local tax, utility taxes and whatever else taxes back to 1978 level and get rid of Prop 13. Let’s go. That’s a fair proposal IMO.

I never call for $0 property taxes, and I never play the victim card. I’m not a victim. Stop making 💩 up.

Why I tend to side with the conservatives.

1) I’m a Buddhist. I’m anti-abortion unless the pregnancy endangers the mom.

2) I’m pro gun as the 2nd amendment stated “the right to keep and bear arms”. When you enter someone’s house, or live in another person’s country, you have to respect their rules. Also, what recently happened in Palestine and Israel reinforced this “right to keep and bear arms”. How does gun control work in Oakland by the way?

3) and the woke 💩 that’s been happening. Did Penny just admit that trans and queer commit sexual crimes against children. I agree 100%. Those who commit sexual crimes against children should be executed.



4) free speech. Everyone has an opinion so please respect other people’s opinions. Don’t go all ape 💩 when people support Trump, or put a Trump sticker on their car or a sign on their house.

Just to name a few issues that are dear to me. Climate change and all that BS, I don’t care about.
4191   mell   2024 Jan 28, 9:26pm  

It doesn't matter whether taxes are squandered or not, that is a different issue. Prop 13 should be abolished while property taxes for everyone lowered by an equal amount so the state doest get more
4192   Eman   2024 Jan 28, 9:29pm  

Blue says

Eman says


you’re running your mouth for higher taxes without offering alternative solutions.

Show me one place where did I ask for "higher taxes"!
Oh! I see you pay almost nothing for properties purchased years back under 1978 Prop 13 tax based on purchase price and worries that get-rid of Prop 13 put you in line with every peasant/victim who buy at bottom of Ponzy pyramid scheme of taxes based on today's market price! which you call "higher taxes" ;)
Look at message 4188 to understand your rich commie flawed logic.

The government has been raising all kinds of taxes, fees and special assessments to make up for the taxes shortfall. I’m fine with abolishing Prop 13, but all other taxes have to be reset too to offset all the extra fees, assessments and taxes have been added on since. Why change the rules in the middle of the game?

Property taxes are our 2nd highest expense after the mortgage. If we abolish Prop 13, rent control must also be abolished, agree? Why cap my rent increase and not cap the property taxes? Rent control housing fees, etc… must also be abolished. Sounds fair?
4193   Eman   2024 Jan 28, 9:42pm  

For us investors, it’s just inputs and outputs. Buy if the numbers make sense. Don’t buy if they don’t pencil out.

There are currently 2 known numbers in the equations. If one is removed (annual property taxes due to Prop 13), the other number must also removed (rent control + associated rent control housing fees). It’s that simple. Investors are doing just fine in other states without Prop 13 and no rent control so I’m sure I’ll do just fine here.
4194   Blue   2024 Jan 28, 10:07pm  

Eman says


I will give you one last chance to respond. If you think Prop 13 is the holy grail, reset all taxes including the state sales tax, income tax, local tax, utility taxes and whatever else taxes back to 1978 level and get rid of Prop 13. Let’s go. That’s a fair proposal IMO.


"I will give you one last chance to respond." - I responded but its you come with your unrelated BS to keep extremely low Prop 13 taxes while every loser paying extremely high taxes to keep CA solvent to benefit not only just illegals but people like you and your massive gains intact! This discussion is about ethics, policy and focus on consequences of highly uneven taxes of Prop 13 not to keep anyone on hook and pay taxes!

Asking again - when and where did I say "Prop 13 is the holy grail," - when I have been asking the opposite to abolish! Is this part of your commie flawed logic to support point (1) in message (4187) You are simply lying, you accuse but failed to show me any of my relevant messages to support your accusations! Everyone is different, looks like you have very poor ethics.

You also proved that you are a literal thinker and lack of critical thinking skills. You think, repealing 1978 Prop 13 will be the end of CA!! You are giving a dire picture as if CA can not even survive without Prop 13.

You said on a different thread, came from a commie country and acts like perfect rich commie to keep Prop 13 to pay extremely low property taxes for you BUT not for others just like in any commie country hierarchy.
All I have been asking was uniform taxes for all just like rest of the USA. I do know by now, like I said, you oppose this in reality with your logic message 4188 (2) to keep commie Prop 13 (1). I rest my case.
4195   Eman   2024 Jan 29, 12:04am  

@Blue,

There are 2 known parameters on an equation. Remove both or remove none to keep the equation balance. Your proposal is take, take and take.

Does your uniform taxes including sales tax, income tax, local tax and all other taxes, or only property taxes? Do you own properties and know what else are included on the property tax bills?

This was the last property I bought in 2019. I paid $720k for the property, and the county assessor assessed it at $780k. I appealed, but he gave me a middle finger. Currently assessed at $820k with $15.3k/year in property taxes? How is that 1% or even 1.25%?

Is it fair to cap my annual rent increase to 3% while inflation is running at 9% while not capping my property taxes? It’s a waste of time talking to folks who don’t deal with reality.


4197   AmericanKulak   2024 Jan 29, 12:09pm  

AD says


Boomers are not moving out of their big homes. Here’s why


They will when they can't use the 2nd floor due to knee problems, or when one of them has to go to a sub-acute.

In the example, the homeowners themselves state their family is not in the area, so they don't need to buy an expensive CA condo. They can go to Texas or anywhere else and the tax-exempt gain is more than enough for them to buy a new, one story or condo just about anywhere in the Union outside of coastal CA with a million to spare WITH the current cap gains rate and $500k exemption.

It's very tough for me to boo hoo over people who brought for $150k 30 years ago getting a million and a half in appreciation, of which "Half a million" is excluded from Cap Gains.
4198   Eric Holder   2024 Jan 29, 12:23pm  

AD says


.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/29/economy/why-boomers-are-not-moving-out-of-their-big-homes/index.html

Boomers are not moving out of their big homes. Here’s why

.


I know a couple (not boomers) who rented out their Bay Area house and are renting a decently-sized condo in Miami and breaking even. They hired a property manager so no long-distance landlording shit there. They moved for work, but it seems like a perfectly workable scenario for retired boomers.
4199   AD   2024 Jan 29, 1:31pm  

AmericanKulak says

They will when they can't use the 2nd floor due to knee problems, or when one of them has to go to a sub-acute.


the key as far as our present and future economy is to innovate and improvise

even if it is a split stair, then get a stair lift

open house up to have a younger person to live in the house as a part time care taker .... or get a company that sends a care giver to the house a couple of times a week

use technology like Wyze or Blink cameras to keep an eye on the elderly residents and have them wear tracking devices like smart watches

.
4200   Eman   2024 Jan 30, 9:17am  

The housing madness continues. The housing affordability index is even worse now compared to the 2006 housing bubble.



https://x.com/charliebilello/status/1752343180178051249?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
4201   Eman   2024 Jan 30, 9:23am  

I notice the word “crashing” has been abused all these years to get clicks. I guess it’s all perspective.



https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1752150729081442340?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
4202   Eman   2024 Jan 30, 9:26am  

This author believes the housing market is returning to normal. Apparently, a reader disagreed.

This cycle has been interesting. I thought the housing market peaked in 2018 so who am I to say if it’s normal or not. I just know I’m not a house buyer in this market. Will continue to stay as an investor and only buy deals where the numbers pencil out.


4204   GNL   2024 Jan 30, 6:04pm  

Eman says

This author believes the housing market is returning to normal. Apparently, a reader disagreed.

This cycle has been interesting. I thought the housing market peaked in 2018 so who am I to say if it’s normal or not. I just know I’m not a house buyer in this market. Will continue to stay as an investor and only buy deals where the numbers pencil out.




Really? Why no dates on the chart?
4205   AmericanKulak   2024 Jan 30, 6:29pm  

Irrefutable Evidence the Housing Crash is imminent:

4206   AD   2024 Jan 30, 6:33pm  

Eman says

This author believes the housing market is returning to normal. Apparently, a reader disagreed.


Mister Eman, Worst case is the median price floor or bottom likely will be $360,000, which is about 25% below all time high of $480,000. It accounts for the 30 year mortgage rate steadying at 6%, not 5.5%. The 30 year mortgage rate was around 3.5% a couple of months before peak housing prices in early 2022. Housing prices should drop 10% for every 1% increase in the 30 year mortgage rate (based on mortgage affordability standards).
Income hopefully will catch up with housing costs since housing prices peaked around early 2022. So the bottom or floor of $360,000 is overly pessimistic especially for medium to high growth zip codes.
.



.
4207   Eman   2024 Jan 30, 8:28pm  

I don’t know if it’s a good or bad idea to cut rates ASAP. Time will tell.



https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1752397638836850847?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
4208   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 30, 8:30pm  

Eman says

I don’t know if it’s a good or bad idea to cut rates ASAP. Time will tell.



https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1752397638836850847?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q


Here we go again.

Wasn't it the same motivation that created the previous bubble?
4209   AD   2024 Jan 30, 10:55pm  

They want rates cut because the economy is shedding jobs that are middle class. The only major job growth is in low wage jobs.

They figure it will cause another asset-inflation cycle and a repeat of 2023 for the stock market is going to help Biden.

And they think we'll get a repeat of a hiring boom by the major corporations since interest rates are lower.

Economic conditions are delicate for Biden because you could have a major increase in unemployment within a couple of months of the election.

Timing is working against Biden since the stock market is over bought from 2023, and unemployment cannot remain this low.
.
4210   AD   2024 Jan 30, 10:59pm  

GNL says


Eman says

This author believes the housing market is returning to normal. Apparently, a reader disagreed.

This cycle has been interesting. I thought the housing market peaked in 2018 so who am I to say if it’s normal or not. I just know I’m not a house buyer in this market. Will continue to stay as an investor and only buy deals where the numbers pencil out.

Really? Why no dates on the chart?


Good point. I guess early 2020 would be the start of the graph. Peak price was February 2022. "Return to Normal" (which has a rectangle drawn around it) is currently were housing market is. Perhaps despair is this year much to the dismay and disapproval of the Democrats (unless it drops off right after the election).

...
4211   GNL   2024 Jan 31, 7:02am  

AD says

Perhaps despair is this year much to the dismay and disapproval of the Democrats (unless it drops off right after the election).

Despair over what?
4213   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 7:46am  

AD says

GNL says



Eman says

This author believes the housing market is returning to normal. Apparently, a reader disagreed.

This cycle has been interesting. I thought the housing market peaked in 2018 so who am I to say if it’s normal or not. I just know I’m not a house buyer in this market. Will continue to stay as an investor and only buy deals where the numbers pencil out.

Really? Why no dates on the chart?


Good point. I guess early 2020 would be the start of the graph. Peak price was February 2022. "Return to Normal" (which has a rectangle drawn around it) is currently were housing market is. Perhaps despair is this year much to the dismay and disapproval of the Democrats (unless it drops off right after the election).

...

That’s correct. The reader believes the housing market is on the verge of collapsing while the author believes it’s “return to normal”. The chart displays the sequence of how a bubble will likely play out.
4214   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 9:47am  



4215   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Jan 31, 11:48am  

Wow, Fed’s Statement Pushes Back against Rate-Cut Mania and End-of-QT Mania, Holds Rates at 5.50% Top of Range, QT to Continue as Planned

https://wolfstreet.com/2024/01/31/wow-feds-statement-pushes-back-against-rate-cut-mania-and-end-of-qt-mania-holds-rates-at-5-50-top-of-range-qt-to-continue-as-planned/

Not a surprise to me. I called it!
4216   AD   2024 Jan 31, 1:21pm  

GNL says

AD says

Perhaps despair is this year much to the dismay and disapproval of the Democrats (unless it drops off right after the election).

Despair over what?


Refer to Eman's housing bubble chart, and "despair" is the region where housing prices bottom. Maybe prices bottom by late summer 2024, so another 10% drop at least in housing prices from current price level.

.
4217   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 2:03pm  

AD says

GNL says


AD says

Perhaps despair is this year much to the dismay and disapproval of the Democrats (unless it drops off right after the election).

Despair over what?


Refer to Eman's housing bubble chart, and "despair" is the region where housing prices bottom. Maybe prices bottom by late summer 2024, so another 10% drop at least in housing prices from current price level.

.

It could also be next year or the year after. No one knows when the next recession will hit us, and no one knows how deep it will be. It’s all a guess.

Based on historical data, I thought the current cycle would peak around 2017. I remember when we bought 2 buildings in 2018 and I told myself I’m going all in at the peak of the market. We did well, and we bought 2 more buildings in 2019. They all have worked out ok thanks to low mortgage rates.
4218   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 2:05pm  

AD says

They want rates cut because the economy is shedding jobs that are middle class. The only major job growth is in low wage jobs.

They figure it will cause another asset-inflation cycle and a repeat of 2023 for the stock market is going to help Biden.

And they think we'll get a repeat of a hiring boom by the major corporations since interest rates are lower.

Economic conditions are delicate for Biden because you could have a major increase in unemployment within a couple of months of the election.

Timing is working against Biden since the stock market is over bought from 2023, and unemployment cannot remain this low.
.

The probability of the Fed cutting 0.25% in March currently stands at 55%. There was no chance of the Fed cutting rate today although Pocahontas and 3 D senators pleaded for a cut
4220   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 31, 3:00pm  

So Fed is not beholden to Dims as much as people alleged?
4221   AD   2024 Jan 31, 3:11pm  

Eman says

The probability of the Fed cutting 0.25% in March currently stands at 55%. There was no chance of the Fed cutting rate today although Pocahontas and 3 D senators pleaded for a cut


I doubt it Mister Eman unless PCE remains below 2.5% for three consecutive months ..then the Fed may start to lower rates, especially if unemployment upticks ...
4222   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Jan 31, 3:43pm  

AD says

They want rates cut because the economy is shedding jobs that are middle class. The only major job growth is in low wage jobs.
.


Ok. But how much of that is due to structural changes vs whatever the Fed does or dies not do?
4223   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 Jan 31, 4:05pm  

Eman says






Guessing surplus in Dallas and Phoenix are due to lots of new construction. But New York and Denver, shithole conditions combined with ridiculous rents.
4224   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 Jan 31, 4:06pm  

"Y’all know that I watch this because, as Luke Gorman has taught me, “[T]he US government’s debt to GDP ratio is about 120% and its budget deficit is forecast to be about 7% of GDP [in 2022]. A 300-basis point hike should increase the budget deficit to about 11% of GDP. Since 1991, all 18 other governments with deficits exceeding 11% of GDP and debt to GDP ratios exceeding 110% defaulted within two years.

Here’s the other piece of the puzzle: The federal deficit will probably reach 6.8% for 2023.
"

-Franklin Sanders
4225   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 4:18pm  

AD says

Eman says


The probability of the Fed cutting 0.25% in March currently stands at 55%. There was no chance of the Fed cutting rate today although Pocahontas and 3 D senators pleaded for a cut


I doubt it Mister Eman unless PCE remains below 2.5% for three consecutive months ..then the Fed may start to lower rates, especially if unemployment upticks ...

The probability is down to 31% now for a March rate cut. I’m not smart enough to know what the Fed will or will not do. I just share statistics. If I knew what the Fed would do, I wouldn’t be posting on Patnet.
4226   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 4:34pm  



4227   AD   2024 Jan 31, 6:09pm  

Eman says


If I knew what the Fed would do, I wouldn’t be posting on Patnet.


You keep telling us how rich you are in investing in real estate and still post on Patnet. So why would it make a difference if you knew what the Fed would do as far as posting on Patnet. Knowing this info is not going to make you rich as much as having inside information on a stock and buying calls or puts.

.
4228   Eman   2024 Jan 31, 6:25pm  

AD says

Eman says



If I knew what the Fed would do, I wouldn’t be posting on Patnet.


You keep telling us how rich you are in investing in real estate and still post on Patnet. So why would it make a difference if you knew what the Fed would do as far as posting on Patnet. Knowing this info is not going to make you rich as much as having inside information on a stock and buying calls or puts.

.

What is your definition of rich? I’ve done alright, and I live a comfortable life thanks to my wife. Our net worth is peanut compared to some people in our sphere and our neighbors.

Do you know you much you can make buying 0DTE calls or puts and be on the right side of the trade? I’ve seen it up to 10,000% ROI.

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