patrick.net

Just try it.

Agreed, may try paid stock research

mell says

Agreed, may try paid stock research

Buy AZZ!

Sorry to be a downer, but Patnetters insulting each other or posting memes will not attract many paying customers.

If we are a bit more serious, perhaps something like what is suggested could have worked years back when people here were discussing real estate and when Patrick got some media exposure. I myself found Patnet in ca. 2010 when I was trying to understand what the hell is going on in real estate, and I think there was a link to Patnet on Peak Prosperity or a similar blog. Edit: found it here: https://housingpanic.blogspot.com/

You need to write another book @Patrick and get invited to talk on media again.

Bd6r says

Sorry to be a downer, but Patnetters insulting each other or posting memes will not attract many paying customers.

I don't know, I see more insults on facebook than here. And the vast majority are not anonymous on FB. It's generally been pretty clean here the last two years plus.

At the end of the day it's a business idea. You HAVE to know you'll get sued for something. Is that a risk you're willing to take? Stage 2 would be marketing Patnet. If it were to become a thing everyone and their brother will be wanting to suck that tit. You'll get all sorts of people coming out of the woodwork claiming they can do X, Y, or Z for you for $$$. Friend, family, etc.

Between regulations and the public, running a business is not pleasant is all I'll say. My old job we had a negative yelp reviewer destroy us online and it was all a lie. NOTHING we could do about it. Trolls wanting to ruin your business are the biggest concern in this format. And you can't get rid of that. A past user will come out of the woodwork and trash you even if it's fabricated.

If it's a dream to monetize this place go for it. I'd do whatever I could to support it, but forums/blogs in my opinion are still the wild west of content. You can strike gold or get fucked over. Kind of an OTC/Penny Stock gamble.

HunterTits says

They'll shut you down, period.

Well, my purpose in life is kinda to be a voice of dissent against censorship, so if they try, it's kind of proof that I'm doing something right.

It's not all that hard to try. I don't see what I could be sued for exactly, but maybe I'll be surprised.

mell says

Agreed, may try paid stock research

Sure, this is a great example. There are probably a lot of people who will pay for coherent stock analysis.

At one time I thought I had a viable business showing houses for sale on a map as red, yellow, or green monopoly markers depending on the expected rent vs the purchase price. The problem there was that I was dependent on Craigslist for the rents and they cut me off. End of business. So the lesson learned was not to be dependent, at least as much as possible. That makes payments hard, because cutting off payment processing is one way that the oligarchy suppresses dissent. Worst case, people could mail in a $5 bill, though that is slow and awkward. But it's still possible at least.

There are ISPs who specialize in giving a place to free speech.

I've also discovered that credit unions are much safer places than corporate banks. They tend to be pretty local and much less ideological.

Patrick says

mell says

Agreed, may try paid stock research

Sure, this is a great example. There are probably a lot of people who will pay for coherent stock analysis.

At one time I thought I had a viable business showing houses for sale on a map as red, yellow, or green monopoly markers depending on the expected rent vs the purchase price. The problem there was that I was dependent on Craigslist for the rents and they cut me off. End of business. So the lesson learned was not to be dependent, at least as much as possible. That makes payments hard, because cutting off payment processing is one way that the oligarchy suppresses dissent. Worst case, people could mail in a $5 bill, though that is slow and awkward. But it's still possible at least.

It has to be done with micropayments. People don't like to subscribe or pay a lot at once.

Thanks @mell

It would be pretty simple to do arbitrarily small micropayments from a user's money in hand to the authors of the relevant posts. I could just track all the payments in the database. So I suppose people would have to sign up with $5 or whatever and then use it up.

So then what is a good censorship-resistant way to accept that $5? I kind of like paper money in the mail actually, but would people mail me $5? I think they might. They have to find an envelope and a stamp, but they don't have to give away any credit card info either.

Another viral effect not to be underestimated: If I post how much each article and each author has earned, that would be very interesting to readers as well. Though it could be depressing or embarrassing if they don't earn anything.

The success of the http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com/ was due primarily to people being interested in how much money the guy was earning - and that interest is exactly what got the attention that allowed him to sell the advertising in the first place!

So I think it is important to publish income amounts somehow.

Patrick says

Thanks @mell

It would be pretty simple to do arbitrarily small micropayments from a user's money in hand to the authors of the relevant posts. I could just track all the payments in the database. So I suppose people would have to sign up with $5 or whatever and then use it up.

So then what is a good censorship-resistant way to accept that $5? I kind of like paper money in the mail actually, but would people mail me $5? I think they might. They have to find an envelope and a stamp, but they don't have to give away any credit card info either.

That would be the best way to stay anonymous and probably not more expensive than the payment processor taking a cut. Plus you can use no postage needed if mailed within the US prepaid envelopes you haven't used ;) I wonder if the trick still works not to stamp it but use your address as sender so it gets "returned" to you. Anyways, I digress. Sending $5 via mail and providing username (or email) should be enough to get started.

mell says

That would be the best way to stay anonymous and probably not more expensive than the payment processor taking a cut.

The anonymity of cash is a good point! People who want to pay an author could remain completely anonymous, except that they would have to tell me their user name so I can credit that "account".

On the other hand, to pay out to authors, I would need somewhere to mail their payment to. And I'd probably be obligated to issue them a W-2 to them. Anyone know the laws about this?

And how would I pay out exactly? Mail cash? Write a check?

Patrick says

And I'd probably be obligated to issue them a W-2 to them.

More likely a 1099 for those who earn over $600. A W-2 would only be for employees of yours.

@Patrick

I have a suggestion - make a page on this site (or elsewhere) where people can privately send you ideas.

I have plenty of (stupid?) ideas I will never implement, but I don't want to hand them out willy nilly to the public either.

Thanks Rich, but then why not just email me the ideas?

Patrick says

Thanks Rich, but then why not just email me the ideas?

Email is compromised.

We've had PGP available to us for 3 decades now. Why isn't it standardized in the SMTP protocol? How does a company make any money providing a free email service?

You're in the same area I am. You know that the business here is basically intelligence gathering. Proton Email has been broken, did you know that? If it's a free service you can 100000% know it's being used against you. Somebody has to pay for it, in some way.

You can just just setup a thread for "suggestions" where everything is automatically shown as "personal" or "redacted" or something? You're using a 2048 RSA public key on this site and Let's Encrypt - you should up it to 4096 bits which is the current maximum. It's more overhead on the INITIAL connection and more work on the server, but, who cares?

I've thought about setting up personal messaging on this site, but the risk is that two users will not only start insulting each other, but threaten each other. And I don't really want to need to read and judge personal conversations. Or it could be even worse, like a conduit for pedos to share pictures of children.

Patrick says

I've thought about setting up personal messaging on this site, but the risk is that two users will not only start insulting each other, but threaten each other. And I don't really want to need to read and judge personal conversations. Or it could be even worse, like a conduit for pedos to share pictures of children.

@Patrick, messaging exclusively to you.

It would be a plus to allow a user to see what they sent to you, but not necessary.

I may have a VERY STUPID idea, but maybe not. I know I won't develop it, and I don't want to make it public to the wrong people. It's not been tried before. If it's never been tried, it's 99.9% probable it's a bad idea. Having a good, NEW idea, very rare. I thought up Uber and Uber Eats before it was made, but, it was illegal to do, YET, a company was made that broke the law. My idea doesn't break any laws, but I don't want to develop it.

BTW - people making threats are full of shit. I've engaged in this stupidity. I found some guy swearing he would beat me to death who lived in this area. I invited him to show up in a parking lot and try it. Of course I didn't show up, but the next day I berated him for not showing up. If he did show up I would have called him a lunatic nutcase, and if he didn't I would call him a coward. I needed a response to see if he showed up, and he didn't, so I berated him for being a coward. If he was smarter, he would have called me a nutcase, but he didn't. No lose situation for me really. Most people, including me, are full of shit.

I think there's very few things worth fighting for, but sometimes there are, but it's not between two people. The real battle is between ideas and truth and falsity. That's the fundamental struggle.

HeadSet says

Patrick says

And I'd probably be obligated to issue them a W-2 to them.

More likely a 1099 for those who earn over $600. A W-2 would only be for employees of yours.

Yes just a 1099. Take a cut for that tax work and then mail once a year at the minimum or whenever they request it and it's over a certain minimum amount.

mell says

HeadSet says

Patrick says

And I'd probably be obligated to issue them a W-2 to them.

More likely a 1099 for those who earn over $600. A W-2 would only be for employees of yours.

Yes just a 1099. Take a cut for that tax work and then mail once a year at the minimum or whenever they request it and it's over a certain minimum amount.

Probably not worth it in Commfornia. The state government might declare all posters employees, make Patrick pay them minimum wage, paid sick/vacation/family leave etc Then the State would let LGBTQ to sue Patrick for a hostile work environment. --- That's just for starters.

How about this model:

People mail in $5 or whatever, along with their user name so I know who to credit.
I credit that user name.
The user either tips an author just out of good will, or pays an author to read an article. Author gets to choose how much it costs.
Authors can get their money out at any time, minus $1 for the stamp, envelope, and check and minus a 5% commission for patrick.net.

Reasonable?

Sounds good

OK, I need a PO box and a business checking account.

The coding doesn't seem hard. Just need a money table of credits (money mailed in) and debits (money taken out for author payment, check mailing, commission).

Need to read up a bit on the 1099 laws too, and see how Patreon and Substack handle this kind of thing. Probably need some legal verbiage.

Patrick says

OK, I need a PO box and a business checking account.

The coding doesn't seem hard. Just need a money table of credits (money mailed in) and debits (money taken out for author payment, check mailing, commission).

Need to read up a bit on the 1099 laws too, and see how Patreon and Substack handle this kind of thing. Probably need some legal verbiage.

Dont incorporate in CA, use Nebraska or Nevada, in one of those you can just rent a mailbox. One of my TX friends does it, he formed a bizarre shell company to hide his name.

Bd6r says

Patrick says

OK, I need a PO box and a business checking account.

The coding doesn't seem hard. Just need a money table of credits (money mailed in) and debits (money taken out for author payment, check mailing, commission).

Need to read up a bit on the 1099 laws too, and see how Patreon and Substack handle this kind of thing. Probably need some legal verbiage.

Dont incorporate in CA, use Nebraska or Nevada, in one of those you can just rent a mailbox. One of my TX friends does it, he formed a bizarre shell company to hide his name.

Or Wyoming it's very cheap

gab has payment processing thats outside of cancel culture.

just try it lime substaxk? free, 3, 5… some model? id probably pay to read investment advice from rin or eman, logan, those guys know their stuff. although i like it being free here.

OK, I did a lot of the coding, got a PO Box (PO Box 85, Menlo Park, CA 94025), and asked my credit union for checks without my address.

But if people mail in cash, is that instantly taxable income even though 95% or so will be paid out to other users?

I got tipping on patrick.net working.

So now, at the top of each post, you will see a link where you can tip the author if you have money in your account, either from mailing it in, or from others sending you tips or payments to view posts.

The FAQ for tips will be here:

https://patrick.net/post/1277846/2015-02-09-an-antidote-to-corporate-media#tipping

Now I'll work on payments to view posts, which is slightly more complicated. I think I will have that done in a couple of days.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

gab has payment processing thats outside of cancel culture.

just try it lime substaxk? free, 3, 5… some model? id probably pay to read investment advice from rin or eman, logan, those guys know their stuff. although i like it being free here.

I would not trust Gab for shit. Torba is notoriously awful at security.

Oh @Patrick - remind me to tell you about a grift idea I had when we meet up at some point.

It's not exactly a grift - another idea I'll never develop - but it could be lucrative. Warning: this would require you to absolutely sell out, but it would be a separate website.

GiveSendGo is beyond cancel culture. There's a couple others I'll find - I listen to a lot of people who are entirely deplatformed.

Patrick says

OK, I did a lot of the coding, got a PO Box (PO Box 85, Menlo Park, CA 94025), and asked my credit union for checks without my address.

But if people mail in cash, is that instantly taxable income even though 95% or so will be paid out to other users?

You probably need to set up something like an Educational Foundation or something.

Terrible Time To Buy Foundation?

AmericanKulak says

You probably need to set up something like an Educational Foundation or something.

Thanks, but what would be the advantage of that?

Tax-free?

It's a nice thought, but this is going to be a for-profit thing.

Patrick says

It's a nice thought, but this is going to be a for-profit thing.

Oh, this is where you're making a gross error. "Charities" are not NON PROFIT - they are non taxable corporations. You have to apply and receive permission, but you can become a non taxable entity. You'll draw a salary from the corporation, but the company itself will be non taxable.

Basically, you have to present a case that you're providing a public service for the public good. You'll have to apply several times, but you can attempt it. It might be far more difficult today than 20 years ago, now that our government is a bunch of communist assholes, but you can try.

Patrick says

OK, I did a lot of the coding, got a PO Box (PO Box 85, Menlo Park, CA 94025), and asked my credit union for checks without my address.

But if people mail in cash, is that instantly taxable income even though 95% or so will be paid out to other users?

no, taxable is what you keep after expenses. make sure to keep track of expenses so when audited, you don’t get fucked

Patrick says

Now I'll work on payments to view posts, which is slightly more complicated. I think I will have that done in a couple of days.

OK, deployed that. Now you can charge for posts.

Now we are at the chicken and egg problem, where no one on the site has any money in their account, so no one else can get any money. I'll put $10 in my own account and start tipping people just to get this nano-economy rolling a bit.

I just tipped everyone who wrote a post in the last week.

OK, I only tipped 10 cents each, but hey, you can use it to tip others so at least it has some entertainment value.

Patrick says

OK, I only tipped 10 cents each, but hey, you can use it to tip others so at least it has some entertainment value.

More fun if we could actually fine people!