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100
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 8:29am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 8:29am
WookieMan says
In the original intent of the income tax when they passed a Constitutional Amendment to allow it, income tax was supposed to apply to only the wealthy. Therefore, keeping with that spirit, the $60k guy should not have to pay it.
A person that gets a return on $60k income with a family of 2 kids, likely paid $0 in federal taxes.
In the original intent of the income tax when they passed a Constitutional Amendment to allow it, income tax was supposed to apply to only the wealthy. Therefore, keeping with that spirit, the $60k guy should not have to pay it.
101
AD
2024 Apr 8, 8:40am
AD
2024 Apr 8, 8:40am
WookieMan says
Yes as far as standard deduction, earned income credit (EIC), Affordable Care Act subsidies, etc whereas they pay 0% of their total income and wages to federal income tax (and state income tax) or maybe at most 5% of that (i.e., effective rate for income tax).
They pay "tax" the other ways like Social Security, Medicare, state and local sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc. For us in Florida which there is a ~80% chance you live in an HOA, you pay a HOA "tax" since the HOA takes on a lot of responsibility that a municipal government would normally take on up North in a non HOA neighborhood.
Income tax comes predominantly from the socioeconomic range of middle class single filers to billionaire class.
.
Yet they think they paid taxes because they filed. Yes, you did your taxes, it doesn't mean you paid a dime at the end of the day.
Yes as far as standard deduction, earned income credit (EIC), Affordable Care Act subsidies, etc whereas they pay 0% of their total income and wages to federal income tax (and state income tax) or maybe at most 5% of that (i.e., effective rate for income tax).
They pay "tax" the other ways like Social Security, Medicare, state and local sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc. For us in Florida which there is a ~80% chance you live in an HOA, you pay a HOA "tax" since the HOA takes on a lot of responsibility that a municipal government would normally take on up North in a non HOA neighborhood.
Income tax comes predominantly from the socioeconomic range of middle class single filers to billionaire class.
.
102
AD
2024 Apr 8, 8:46am
AD
2024 Apr 8, 8:46am
richwicks says
Yes, but notice China owns a lot less US federal debt compared to what they owned in 2015 ? IRA and 401k owners hold a lot of "investment grade debt" in the form of US Treasuries. Also pension funds like CALPERS and the Federal Reserve balance sheet hold US Treasuries, though the Fed is quantitative tightening (QT).
I suspect they'll start turning the curve and the debt to GDP ratio will drop from currently 121% to 90% (i.e., around 2011 levels) when the Trump tax cuts are expired for about 2 years. It peaked around 132% in early 2020.
They just got to hope the US Treasury 10 Yr steadies below 4%, which historically is around 1.5% greater than annual inflation (and the 30 Year mortgage is historically around 1.5% greater than the 10 Yr Treasury).
.
That's our debt on a log scale. The country is fucked. People just ignore it and think it's no big deal. The next generation will be a generation of slaves.
Yes, but notice China owns a lot less US federal debt compared to what they owned in 2015 ? IRA and 401k owners hold a lot of "investment grade debt" in the form of US Treasuries. Also pension funds like CALPERS and the Federal Reserve balance sheet hold US Treasuries, though the Fed is quantitative tightening (QT).
I suspect they'll start turning the curve and the debt to GDP ratio will drop from currently 121% to 90% (i.e., around 2011 levels) when the Trump tax cuts are expired for about 2 years. It peaked around 132% in early 2020.
They just got to hope the US Treasury 10 Yr steadies below 4%, which historically is around 1.5% greater than annual inflation (and the 30 Year mortgage is historically around 1.5% greater than the 10 Yr Treasury).
.
103
richwicks
2024 Apr 8, 11:40am
richwicks
2024 Apr 8, 11:40am
GreaterNYCDude says
Name anything in the world that can have exponential growth that doesn't end in a collapse.
Anything
The time of fixing this is over. We're going to become a feudal system where our leaders just use the state to finance whatever they won't and stick the rest of the population with debt.
But I remember them saying this in the 80s... How their kids (in other words anyone Gen X or younger) would be debt slaves to Japan (this was before the rise of China).
Name anything in the world that can have exponential growth that doesn't end in a collapse.
Anything
The time of fixing this is over. We're going to become a feudal system where our leaders just use the state to finance whatever they won't and stick the rest of the population with debt.
104
AD
2024 Apr 8, 12:54pm
AD
2024 Apr 8, 12:54pm
richwicks says
I already see improvement with debt to GDP ratio and I think it will get better when the Trump tax cuts expire and then they are re negotiated into a bipartisan compromise a couple years later.
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The time of fixing this is over.
I already see improvement with debt to GDP ratio and I think it will get better when the Trump tax cuts expire and then they are re negotiated into a bipartisan compromise a couple years later.
.
105
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 1:20pm
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 1:20pm
AD says
When the Trump tax cuts were first implemented, did tax revenue increase? If so, then the increased taxation when the cuts expire may curtain enough economic activity that collections actually decrease.
I already see improvement with debt to GDP ratio and I think it will get better when the Trump tax cuts expire
When the Trump tax cuts were first implemented, did tax revenue increase? If so, then the increased taxation when the cuts expire may curtain enough economic activity that collections actually decrease.
106
WookieMan
2024 Apr 8, 2:18pm
WookieMan
2024 Apr 8, 2:18pm
HeadSet says
I don't think I'm rich. Why should I be pissing away about 18% of our income? At some point it is better to pay 0% and make less. That's where we're at. Is it really worth the effort?
Everyone should have some skin in the game. A good chunk don't, but they still get to vote. Fuck them. That's my beef. Weighted voting by taxes paid. A wealthy person with high income, but skates taxes and pays zero gets one vote. A poor person that pays zero gets one vote. You pay $500 in taxes you get 3 votes. I'd get 5 votes. You pay $100k you get 6. That way the middle class controls voting. Sick of it being about blacks, hispanics, etc. with voting. It would take race out overnight and put the control in the middle classes hands. Any race.
In the original intent of the income tax when they passed a Constitutional Amendment to allow it, income tax was supposed to apply to only the wealthy. Therefore, keeping with that spirit, the $60k guy should not have to pay it.
I don't think I'm rich. Why should I be pissing away about 18% of our income? At some point it is better to pay 0% and make less. That's where we're at. Is it really worth the effort?
Everyone should have some skin in the game. A good chunk don't, but they still get to vote. Fuck them. That's my beef. Weighted voting by taxes paid. A wealthy person with high income, but skates taxes and pays zero gets one vote. A poor person that pays zero gets one vote. You pay $500 in taxes you get 3 votes. I'd get 5 votes. You pay $100k you get 6. That way the middle class controls voting. Sick of it being about blacks, hispanics, etc. with voting. It would take race out overnight and put the control in the middle classes hands. Any race.
107
AD
2024 Apr 8, 2:33pm
AD
2024 Apr 8, 2:33pm
HeadSet says
That is a difficult call or forecast, as it relates to the concept of Laffer Curve.
.
When the Trump tax cuts were first implemented, did tax revenue increase? If so, then the increased taxation when the cuts expire may curtain enough economic activity that collections actually decrease.
That is a difficult call or forecast, as it relates to the concept of Laffer Curve.
.
108
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 8, 9:01pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 8, 9:01pm
clambo says
Wasn't needed in the late 1700's when we handed the greatest Army in the world their asses.
the Dept. of Defense today is needed
Wasn't needed in the late 1700's when we handed the greatest Army in the world their asses.
109
AD
2024 Apr 8, 10:09pm
AD
2024 Apr 8, 10:09pm
NuttBoxer says
not a good example to compare to present day
the technology of war has changed and the chicoms are our main adversary
.
clambo says
the Dept. of Defense today is needed
Wasn't needed in the late 1700's when we handed the greatest Army in the world their asses.
not a good example to compare to present day
the technology of war has changed and the chicoms are our main adversary
.
110
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 9, 9:41am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 9, 9:41am
It hasn't though. They need people to man their side, and we have WAY more. They've already stated quite publicly that it's easier to kill than control million people today. If they could round up a million of us and exterminate us using military they would(see Gaza).
The only thing that's changed between now and back then, central banks have warped most people's minds to make us think fantasy is reality. It's not, they are losing, and if they try to take us militarily, they will be slaughtered.
The only thing that's changed between now and back then, central banks have warped most people's minds to make us think fantasy is reality. It's not, they are losing, and if they try to take us militarily, they will be slaughtered.
111
PeopleUnited
2024 Apr 9, 10:05am
PeopleUnited
2024 Apr 9, 10:05am
NuttBoxer says
I don’t see any front on which the globalists are losing. They are literally one or two moves from check mate. Get ready for the Antichrist people.
It's not, they are losing
I don’t see any front on which the globalists are losing. They are literally one or two moves from check mate. Get ready for the Antichrist people.
112
AD
2024 Apr 9, 11:07am
AD
2024 Apr 9, 11:07am
NuttBoxer says
You don't need a 2 million standing army (i..e, active duty , not reserve and national guard). You don't need that with the technology of war today. Look even what the Marines are saying about "FORCE MULTIPLIERS" (I figured I throw that lexicon in there for the Head Set crowd here, and that one Patnet poster who I think is a Naval Academy alum). The drones with sensors are what a lot of the Marine Corp is talking about.
Its about about the Pentagon wisely spending taxpayer dollars to ensure the adequate readiness level. I realize pensions and disability payments (comes from an unofficial "branch of the Pentagon" called Veteran Affairs) are a major factor as far as driving this.
.
They need people to man their side,
You don't need a 2 million standing army (i..e, active duty , not reserve and national guard). You don't need that with the technology of war today. Look even what the Marines are saying about "FORCE MULTIPLIERS" (I figured I throw that lexicon in there for the Head Set crowd here, and that one Patnet poster who I think is a Naval Academy alum). The drones with sensors are what a lot of the Marine Corp is talking about.
Its about about the Pentagon wisely spending taxpayer dollars to ensure the adequate readiness level. I realize pensions and disability payments (comes from an unofficial "branch of the Pentagon" called Veteran Affairs) are a major factor as far as driving this.
.
113
HeadSet
2024 Apr 9, 4:05pm
HeadSet
2024 Apr 9, 4:05pm
NuttBoxer says
With quite a spot of help from the French. I 1812 we could not stop the British from landing near Yorktown and marching around 100 miles to sack Washinton.
clambo says
the Dept. of Defense today is needed
Wasn't needed in the late 1700's when we handed the greatest Army in the world their asses.
With quite a spot of help from the French. I 1812 we could not stop the British from landing near Yorktown and marching around 100 miles to sack Washinton.
115
AD
2024 Apr 9, 6:19pm
AD
2024 Apr 9, 6:19pm
HeadSet says
I think there is one as they identified themselves as a USNA alum. It was about 4 years ago at least when they did identify themselves.
.
AD says
that one Patnet poster who I think is a Naval Academy alum
We have a Canoe U poster here?
I think there is one as they identified themselves as a USNA alum. It was about 4 years ago at least when they did identify themselves.
.
116
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 10, 8:54am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 10, 8:54am
AD says
I agree with the first part, kind of my whole point. But not with the second. We had better tech in Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. How did that work out? We sent better tech to Ukraine, how are they doing? No one conquers a people without a ground invasion. Which is why they push so hard to disarm us, inject us with poison, etc.
So my question, if they don't believe their tech is enough, why should you?
AD says
WAAHHH HAHAHAHAHA!!! You mean like when they announced 1.8 trillion missing on 9/10? Until you understand money laundering, NASA, and the significance of that press conference, you're just gonna continue to make hilarious statements like the above.
Let me go back to my time tested question. Tell me when government involvement has EVER made ANYTHING better?
You don't need a 2 million standing army (i..e, active duty , not reserve and national guard). You don't need that with the technology of war today.
I agree with the first part, kind of my whole point. But not with the second. We had better tech in Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. How did that work out? We sent better tech to Ukraine, how are they doing? No one conquers a people without a ground invasion. Which is why they push so hard to disarm us, inject us with poison, etc.
So my question, if they don't believe their tech is enough, why should you?
AD says
Its about about the Pentagon wisely spending taxpayer dollars to ensure the adequate readiness level.
WAAHHH HAHAHAHAHA!!! You mean like when they announced 1.8 trillion missing on 9/10? Until you understand money laundering, NASA, and the significance of that press conference, you're just gonna continue to make hilarious statements like the above.
Let me go back to my time tested question. Tell me when government involvement has EVER made ANYTHING better?
117
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 10, 8:58am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 10, 8:58am
HeadSet says
If we're putting qualifiers what about England's army being mostly mercenaries? What about a majority of Americans being Loyalists? Does it really matter? Whether England or the US had help, the outcome is still largest empire in the world lost to a volunteer army where the soldiers literally left during the war to harvest their crops.
With quite a spot of help from the French. I 1812 we could not stop the British from landing near Yorktown and marching around 100 miles to sack Washinton.
If we're putting qualifiers what about England's army being mostly mercenaries? What about a majority of Americans being Loyalists? Does it really matter? Whether England or the US had help, the outcome is still largest empire in the world lost to a volunteer army where the soldiers literally left during the war to harvest their crops.
118
AmericanKulak
2024 Apr 10, 10:11am
AmericanKulak
2024 Apr 10, 10:11am
Submarines, not Carriers, are the wave of the future.
Only submarines have the survivability and resilience. It's the ultimate asymetric response to raw-materials import dependent CHYna.
Dozens of shallow water optimized D/E boats with harpoons sending every Liberian tanker and bulk carrier loaded with MENA Oil and Aussie Iron to Davey Jones' Locker in the Java and South China sea. Better yet, the Indian Ocean where Chinese assets and bases are more limited and India may very well act if Chinese presence was to intensify.
The Chinese have spent two decades on Carrier busting missiles and conventional MIRV-like vehicles. POOF!
Only submarines have the survivability and resilience. It's the ultimate asymetric response to raw-materials import dependent CHYna.
Dozens of shallow water optimized D/E boats with harpoons sending every Liberian tanker and bulk carrier loaded with MENA Oil and Aussie Iron to Davey Jones' Locker in the Java and South China sea. Better yet, the Indian Ocean where Chinese assets and bases are more limited and India may very well act if Chinese presence was to intensify.
The Chinese have spent two decades on Carrier busting missiles and conventional MIRV-like vehicles. POOF!
119
clambo
2024 Apr 10, 1:43pm
I just used HR Block and did my 2023 1040 in an hour and a half.
My tax rate was pretty low.
Adjusted Gross Income=$103,712
Actual Tax Due=$9724
As you can see, this is not a bad rate at all. The secret is probably the large dividend distributions from my mutual funds are "qualified dividends".
I'm not actually spending my retirement accounts, taxable accounts and variable annuity; this is from a couple of bond funds, a balanced fund, and annual dividend distributions from other funds which do that every December (e.g. Vanguard Total Stock Market Fund, etc.)
I have an inherited IRA worth about $200K and I take about $10K out which is going up each year (RMD is based on my age).
I filed electronically so maybe if there's an error I will hear about it pretty soon.
Edit: My Medicare and drug benefit called Part D (deducted from my social security payments) were $4334 in 2023.
My tax rate was pretty low.
Adjusted Gross Income=$103,712
Actual Tax Due=$9724
As you can see, this is not a bad rate at all. The secret is probably the large dividend distributions from my mutual funds are "qualified dividends".
I'm not actually spending my retirement accounts, taxable accounts and variable annuity; this is from a couple of bond funds, a balanced fund, and annual dividend distributions from other funds which do that every December (e.g. Vanguard Total Stock Market Fund, etc.)
I have an inherited IRA worth about $200K and I take about $10K out which is going up each year (RMD is based on my age).
I filed electronically so maybe if there's an error I will hear about it pretty soon.
Edit: My Medicare and drug benefit called Part D (deducted from my social security payments) were $4334 in 2023.
120
HeadSet
2024 Apr 10, 2:20pm
HeadSet
2024 Apr 10, 2:20pm
clambo says
I though inherited IRAs had to be spent down in 10 years regardless of inheritor's age, whether Roth or Traditional, unless you got it from a spouse. Another exception for chronically ill, but I do not think that would apply to you.
I have an inherited IRA worth about $200K and I take about $10K out which is going up each year (RMD is based on my age).
I though inherited IRAs had to be spent down in 10 years regardless of inheritor's age, whether Roth or Traditional, unless you got it from a spouse. Another exception for chronically ill, but I do not think that would apply to you.
121
clambo
2024 Apr 10, 4:21pm
Headset, I believe the RMD rules that applied when I inherited in 2017 still apply.
Those who recently inherited an IRA will have different rules.
I think the new RMD rules suck; of course we all want to delay taking money out of an inherited IRA.
Those who recently inherited an IRA will have different rules.
I think the new RMD rules suck; of course we all want to delay taking money out of an inherited IRA.
122
HeadSet
2024 Apr 10, 6:37pm
HeadSet
2024 Apr 10, 6:37pm
clambo says
Correct, you are grandfathered if you inherited the IRA before 2020.
Headset, I believe the RMD rules that applied when I inherited in 2017 it still apply.
Correct, you are grandfathered if you inherited the IRA before 2020.
123
AD
2024 Apr 10, 10:49pm
AD
2024 Apr 10, 10:49pm
AmericanKulak says
Yes, I read now Lockheed's hypersonic missiles are being deployed on Navy ships this year. It looks like the Virginia Class submarine is fitted to deploy both the Tomahawk cruise missile and the hypersonic missile. I can see where the Virginia class can conduct land attack missions such as with the Lockheed hypersonic missiles.
Submarines, not Carriers, are the wave of the future.
Yes, I read now Lockheed's hypersonic missiles are being deployed on Navy ships this year. It looks like the Virginia Class submarine is fitted to deploy both the Tomahawk cruise missile and the hypersonic missile. I can see where the Virginia class can conduct land attack missions such as with the Lockheed hypersonic missiles.
124
AD
2024 Apr 10, 11:00pm
AD
2024 Apr 10, 11:00pm
NuttBoxer says
yes i agree, but you can ramp up over 1 year for a ground invasion such as train national guard and reserves and recruit a lot more
that is why you do not need a major standing army as you achieve or gain one by that 1 year period , hence this is a way to wisely spend money for national security and not put as much demand on tax dollars
.
No one conquers a people without a ground invasion.
yes i agree, but you can ramp up over 1 year for a ground invasion such as train national guard and reserves and recruit a lot more
that is why you do not need a major standing army as you achieve or gain one by that 1 year period , hence this is a way to wisely spend money for national security and not put as much demand on tax dollars
.
125
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 11, 6:57am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 11, 6:57am
National security is the guise they used to pass the Patriot Act. It's the excuse they made for jailing Manning, Assange, and Snowden(if they had caught him).
Standing armies/national defense/national security is only possible with a central bank. These efforts are all prohibitively expensive, and contrary to the concepts this country was founded on. Mainly our freedom. Look at everything done in the name of any of these, especially around OKC, Waco, Ruby Ridge, 9/11, and everything that's happened since then. I don't think you've stepped back to understand the reality of what they are doing versus the newspeak of what they claim.
Standing armies/national defense/national security is only possible with a central bank. These efforts are all prohibitively expensive, and contrary to the concepts this country was founded on. Mainly our freedom. Look at everything done in the name of any of these, especially around OKC, Waco, Ruby Ridge, 9/11, and everything that's happened since then. I don't think you've stepped back to understand the reality of what they are doing versus the newspeak of what they claim.
126
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 11, 6:59am
fdhfoiehfeoi
2024 Apr 11, 6:59am
And similar to US war planes article that recently stated 70% aren't working, US drones sucks ass as well(re-think your paradigm):
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-drones-are-expensive-and-error-prone-so-ukraine-turns-china
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-drones-are-expensive-and-error-prone-so-ukraine-turns-china
135
GreaterNYCDude
2024 May 13, 7:40pm
Federal (Effective Rate): 13.5%
State (Effective Rate): 5.7%
Social Security: 6.2%
Medicare: 1.5%
Property Taxes: 5.6%
= 32.5% off the top
Plus
Sales Tax: 8%
Plus "hidden" taxes, fees surcharges, etc.
40% of our house hold income goes back to the government.
State (Effective Rate): 5.7%
Social Security: 6.2%
Medicare: 1.5%
Property Taxes: 5.6%
= 32.5% off the top
Plus
Sales Tax: 8%
Plus "hidden" taxes, fees surcharges, etc.
40% of our house hold income goes back to the government.
« First « Previous Comments 100 - 139 of 227 Next » Last » Search these comments
Until the 16th ammendment was passed in the early 1900's, we got by without fedetal income taxes. Tariffs did the trick. Of course, we were not yet the superpower we became, huge millitary and all, and there were not nearly the federally funded social programs we have today.
Frankly, I don't think your average American realizes how heavily they are taxed. Federal. State (with some excaptions) Property. School. Gas. Sales. Etc.
For most in the middle and upper middle class, federal income tax is the biggest share of taxes paid on a percentage basis.
In a modern captalist economy, it makes more sense to me to tax consumption rather than income.
So why not abolish the federal income tax, and instead have a federal tax on goods and services rendered. Better yet, couple it with a balanced budget amment so that the government can't spend money they don't have.
Taxing goods should be straightforward to implement. Buy a bag of rice, clothes, a house, a car, stock, etc. tax it at a nominal rate to raise sufficent revenue to keep the government running. Tax should apply to individuals and corporations alike. I have no idea what the rate would need to be to replace the lost income income revenue, but there must be a way for the been counters to figure that out.
Same holds for services. From your lawyer to your plumber to your accountant.. services rendered should also be taxed... possibly at a different rate than physical goods, since we are a "service based economy".
Just thinking out loud here.. In the 21st century there MUST be a better way to raise revenue than income tax and the various loopholes used to reduce or even avoid ones tax burden.