patrick.net

This may make some sense. I've been reading articles for years about all the desert homesteaders who have had a small farm + well for many decades/generations, and suddenly big mega farm moves into the valley and pumps so much water that everyone's wells run dry because the water table drops. And the only thing they can do is pay for it to be drilled deeper periodically, out of their own pocket. Mega farm can afford expensive 1000ft wells no problem. Homeowners cant, so some pay for water delivery via truck.

But before anyone else says it, I'm aware CA seems to punish individual water users who like to water their lawn, or take a shower now and then, while farms use up the vast majority of the state's water, often to grow maximally profitable thirsty crops, while the plebs are held to account for daring to use a hose to wash their car. Maybe big farm needs to start paying for groundwater. When things are 100% free, people do not exert any resource rationing.

Nice way to attack red counties though.

Central Valley reputedly has sunk 30 feet in some areas due to well tapping. It's all an ancient lake bed.

What about unelected socialist dictatorship don't you understand? They'll just become more arrogant and confiscatory.

Hircus says

CA seems to punish individual water users who like to water their lawn, or take a shower now and then, while farms use up the vast majority of the state's water,

Stadard KommieKunt Operating Procedure: create a fake virtue signaling crisis to wring the plebs for even more geld. It also keeps the LibbyFuck hall monitors armed with ammunition to use against their neighbors.

Riparian rights in the Central Valley are everything in what otherwise is a kind of desert. They determine who can farm and who can't, what can be developed and what can't. Noah Cross from the movie 'Chinatown' and all that.

I had a client whose parents decided to do some almond farming and he inherited the plots. He said that you have to run a phalanx of Guv and local water Nazis and pay the vig to get water for your agriculture.

When your state is ran by faggots, expect faggot supremacy. Fuck man, I feel like America is just falling apart everywhere from liberalism.

Hircus says

But before anyone else says it, I'm aware CA seems to punish individual water users who like to water their lawn, or take a shower now and then

There is no need: most of the population goes along with the "water conservation efforts" voluntarily. I mean, if you are allowed and even encouraged to be a slob and have a brown lawn in front of your house most of the people will gladly take the opportunity.

Eric Holder says

Hircus says

But before anyone else says it, I'm aware CA seems to punish individual water users who like to water their lawn, or take a shower now and then

There is no need: most of the population goes along with the "water conservation efforts" voluntarily. I mean, if you are allowed and even encouraged to be a slob and have a brown lawn in front of your house most of the people will gladly take the opportunity.

Not so sure, storws about rich pedowood actors drenching their lawns and pools and private golf courses with fresh water massively (cost is no issue to them) while Joe Sixpack is urged/punished to "conserve" have been published many times. Haven't validated those claims so who knows, but I do think progressive water bills make much more sense than progressive taxes. If you have a family with kids you can either choose to pay more or forego the pool and large lawn and use it for necessary things.

This letter is only addressing property owners with wells in areas that are ground water basins not covered by GSA authorities. If you live in an area that has a local groundwater sustainability agency, you are only subject to the local GSA’s groundwater sustainability plan rules. Many GSA’s are not wanting to even touch metering private wells with a ten foot pole as there are other methods to manage overall aquifer health.

mell says

If you have a family with kids you can either choose to pay more or forego the pool and large lawn and use it for necessary things.

The thing is the allowances are so generous I can keep two lawns, a pool and drip irrigate the rest of the landscaping and still come in 10,000 gallons below the allowance. I know because I've got a postcard from my water district congratulating me on being great water saver.

But the moment HOA informed everybody that it's now kosher to have a brown lawn half of them went brown.

Jeez.

The Coastal Communities south of the Sonoma Coast are natural deserts, as is most of the Central Valley.

Though a natural desert, at least the Central Valley has rivers from the Sierra Snowmelt that funnel their way through the Delta to the Pacific Ocean.

Any expectation that we along the Coast are Entitled to landscaping, lush lawns, topping off swimming pools, etc. is ridiculous. It is ridiculous and California-narcissistic.

In pursuit of our California Dreaming fantasy we've built engineering marvel infrastructure to energy-intensively pump water uphill against gravity (*) over the Coast Ranges for the narcissistic pleasures of lush lawns and topped-off backyard swimming pools.

Then, like entitled children, we blame each other for taking more than our share, "(big, corporate) agriculture versus modest SFH consumption, etc.".

Like spoiled children those of us with the financial wherewithal pay dearly for even more energy to pump our aquifers dry.

It was paid for and made possible by a transient affluence of a few short decades like Mr. Robinson's house with the backyard swimming pool and lush lawn in the 1960's movie The Graduate. Now that we've mostly spent it (the affluence and the water) we will blame each other instead of ourselves. Because we're Californians.

There is nothing wrong with keeping a smaller footprint, except it don't fit our Fantasy (but don't fit our pocketbooks either).

(*) yes, yes, - I know. The Hetch Hetchy system was originally designed to be gravity fed from the source to the faucets in SF. The reality is there's pumping from source to faucet nowadays.
Sheesh.

Hircus says

When things are 100% free, people do not exert any resource rationing.

I've never seen price as a motivator for conservation. Usually the opposite. People buy carbon credits so they can pollute more. And what reason is there to ration? I hike a trail in the mountains by where we live that goes by a pond. This water is not used by anyone due to it's remote location, and it's only source is yearly rain and snow fall. It's low now at end of summer, but at the start of spring was higher than I'd ever seen it. There is no water shortage.

Eric Holder says

There is no need: most of the population goes along with the "water conservation efforts" voluntarily. I mean, if you are allowed and even encouraged to be a slob and have a brown lawn in front of your house most of the people will gladly take the opportunity.

I've never cared, or personally known anyone who does. I'm sure they're out there, but it's not all of us by far.

Ceffer says

Central Valley reputedly has sunk 30 feet in some areas due to well tapping. It's all an ancient lake bed.

What about unelected socialist dictatorship don't you understand? They'll just become more arrogant and confiscatory.

True - the clay also compacts, so you can't restore this issue in the future by pumping water back underground. Water rights in CA are weird and political anyway.

ForcedTQ says

This letter is only addressing property owners with wells in areas that are ground water basins not covered by GSA authorities.

So that makes it ok? This shit started with fake environmentalism telling people they couldn't collect rainwater, divert streams, etc, on their own property. No one has a right to tell you what to do with the resources you own. Eradication of all property rights is the number one tenet of communism.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Then, like entitled children, we blame each other for taking more than our share, "(big, corporate) agriculture versus modest SFH consumption, etc.".

This is the same argument I heard after '08, blaming the collapse on Joe Blow, not the banks pumping up housing like nobodies business.

This is all bullshit, there is no water shortage. But if there was a legitimate concern from people who really cared about the environment, the first thing they'd do is stop pumping water from NorCal to SoCal. Pumping water out of it's natural region is wasteful, and promotes over-crowding of areas never met to support that many people. And I don't hear one fucking person pushing for this, because it would decimate their voter/slave base, and leave them kings of ghost towns.

Watering grass, or whatever it is you grow creates habitats for nature to thrive in, and encourages healthy soil. You want to protect the environment, stop buying weed-killer, stop eating processed food, stop spraying for insects. Those are all far worse for the world than a green lawn. Stop fucking blaming regular people for fake government created fear-porn. You're just doing their job for them, keeping us divided.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Jeez.
...narcissistic...
...entitled children...
Sheesh.

Virtue signal received loud and clear.

Your morals are clearly of superior quality to mine because you volunteer to lie down and willingly accept the meat so big donation can propagandize the masses into thinking they must tighten their belts in lieu of them.

This sounds like some opinion downloaded from woke writers who constantly go around attacking peoples character using pseudo scientific sounding slurs. "narcissist" is their flavor of the year.

Fuck California!

NuttBoxer says

I've never seen price as a motivator for conservation. Usually the opposite.

More like rarely the opposite.

Maybe supply and demand is an example for you to think about. People consume more of things as the price is lowered, and less as the price rises. And there's a sharp step when the price rises from free, up to any price at all.

NuttBoxer says

People buy carbon credits so they can pollute more

Would they buy more, or less carbon credits if the price of them was lowered? Would they pollote more or less if they had more credits? Would they pollute more or less if credits were free?

NuttBoxer says

And what reason is there to ration?

Because it costs them money...When its free, they can be extremely wasteful without any financial impact. But if theyre paying for it, suddenly being incredibly wasteful gets expensive, and they will look for ways to conserve in proportion to the pain of the cost. Economics.

NuttBoxer says

There is no water shortage.

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know much about this topic, but I'd think water shortages do exist in some places. Just because there's some other places with excess water doesn't mean those shortages don't exist. Access matters. Anyway.

What I do know is that wells can run dry if you pump too much water from them. And there isn't some magic force field which separates the groundwater on your property from your neighbor's. Maybe you think property rights give you the right to pump all the ground water you want, even if that means all the wells on the surrounding properties run dry, but I think that's wrong. Water is a shared resource. Just because it voluntarily flows away from your neighbors property over to your deeper well due to gravity doesn't mean its ok to take it all.

I'm not saying I know the best way to deal with groundwater usage, as I imagine there's much variety of scenario to consider. But if someone is pumping unusually large amounts of water and running the surrounding areas wells dry, I don't think they should be able to do that with impunity.

Hircus says

Maybe supply and demand is an example for you to think about. People consume more of things as the price is lowered, and less as the price rises. And there's a sharp step when the price rises from free, up to any price at all.

Conservation is an issue of morality. You can't force your beliefs on others. I'm sure there are many people who intentionally use more water because fuck you for telling me how to live my life. Water, fuel for transport, food, these cannot be rationed using prices. Charge too much and you won't have conservation, you'll have fucking riots.

And three is no shortage of supply, just artificial attempts to choke demand.

Hircus says

Maybe you think property rights give you the right to pump all the ground water you want, even if that means all the wells on the surrounding properties run dry, but I think that's wrong.

What if they truly need that water? This goes back to over-crowding. Either there are enough resources, or there aren't. Imposing limits on how someone lives their life to justify over-crowding is the definition of fascism.

Now if someone intentionally does something that can be proven wasteful, or harmful to the property of others, like running a GMO farm, then the neighbors definitely have a right to band together and stop that person. But the only entities I know of who routinely waste water, yet claim the sole right to manage it are governments.

Restore Anglo-Saxon Water laws in California and all Western States.

Stop with this Conquistador Authoritarian foreign water laws.

People should be let alone to gather water from their gutters and not fined or prosecuted for it. Who the fuck owns the rain?

Hircus says

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know much about this topic, but I'd think water shortages do exist in some places. Just because there's some other places with excess water doesn't mean those shortages don't exist. Access matters. Anyway.

CA is a public works disaster land. My wife works in the industry and I talk to a lot of government employees, engineers, consultants, etc. in the public works realm. I go to National conferences with her and meet people around the globe. CA is notoriously labeled as a public works disaster. Roads, water, sewer and other infrastructure government runs. It's beyond anecdotal.

2.7 weeks and San Diego is in my rear view mirror!

Oh, and I am planning on getting land with a well after I move.

AmericanKulak says

People should be let alone to gather water from their gutters and not fined or prosecuted for it. Who the fuck owns the rain?

I have plans to do that as well.