patrick.net

cisTits says

Wagner Group on its last legs?

https://youtu.be/LYktbFKITck

Nah, not if it's youtube. Youtube promotes propaganda. Let's look at @ZeihanonGeopolitics OLD statements on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKJtyu3Z4w

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwLaKRnI8A

In THAT one he actually claimed that mRNA has been used for over 30 years, that's total bullshit. It's been used in experimental settings for people at end of life, and lab animals, and that's it. The mRNA jabs are the first widespread human use of the technology, and they are all experimental and they don't work.

He's a propagandist. Just check a person's history, and see if they are full of shit or not.

Once you get into the habit of doing this, you learn not to pollute your mind. I'm telling you that EVERYBODY is susceptible to propaganda, including me. The way I filter is somebody recommends an "authority" to listen to, and I listen to what they said 2 to 4 years ago. If they carry water for the establishment, which was TOTALLY wrong, they're fucking full of shit.

This has eliminated EVERYBODY on television for me, and NEARLY everybody in print media.

This guy is selling a newsletter. He's a grifter. Total fucking sellout liar. He's a Rachael Maddow wannabe. Just, check their history.

cisTits says

Where is the collapse of Russia you or the other Nazi Ukey Fluffers had promised us? Putin being overthrown?

No, Putin died of cancer.

Don't you remember? Remember that?? Our propaganda said he "definitely had cancer" even:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/02/us-intelligence-analysts-believe-vladimir-putin-is-sick-with-cancer-report/

They report this as fact, everything is propaganda. SOMETIMES they will tell you the truth, but it's not worth your time to wade to the sewage to find something worth keeping, and if you do, you need to have a good memory on what they claimed and you remember they've lied to you before. There's no credibility of ANYTHING in corporate news. All of them lie more often than they tell you the truth. They are lying too, they never retract their stories, they never explain how they "made a mistake".

I have to admit, I kind of enjoy the demented 'sports fan' trash talk over Ukraine. However, when one gets past all the posturing and bullshit, one does not have to be a Russian 'fanboy' to see that Russia is gonna win this one. Since that also means the expiration of the criminal enterprises feeding the criminal elements of the West and EU, I can't count that as a bad thing. All that fiat money crap is the source of our current domestic miseries.

Ceffer says

Since that also means the expiration of the criminal enterprises feeding the criminal elements of the West and EU,

NOOOOOooooo.

I wish this was true. The US is still in Afghanistan I think, probably using mercenaries, it's still bombing Syria, Yemen and Somalia. It's still in Iraq.

They just don't bother to tell us about the wars anymore.

Shaman says

What’s weird is how China swapped governments, got rich and influential, and nobody noticed!

"Communist state" and "Fascist state" are one and the same! It's not just mainland China embraced a Fascist state after the "communist revolution": even the USSR became in practice a Fascist state within a few months after the original "communist revolution success" when their experiment in a cashless/moneyless society failed. The Stalin regime was a classic Fascist state (after Trotsky and his band of advocates for exporting revolution were expelled). Even Germany had communist revolution after WWI, before Fascists came to power. Both "Communism" and "Fascism" are bankster frauds designed to kill account holders. The "Communism" future-fake has more appeal to the dumb masses because it taps into their childhood experience of parents selflessly providing for the children; when social experiment along that line fails (and it is guaranteed to fail), the bankster media flip the script get rid of their "left-leaning" agents and promote "fascist" agents (then flip the script again on those agents later), getting rid of bank account holders at every turn.

"What happened to Ukrainians freezing to deaths"? Temperature in Kiev/Kyiv hovers in 30'sF and 20'sF this week (with only a brief spike up to 43F and another spike down to 12F). Due to urban heat sink effect, the surrounding area outside the city is likely 5-10 degrees-F colder. What do you think is happening to people living in that low temperature without electricity? Most thermostat-controlled household gas heaters need electricity to run, that's assuming they have gas, which is not a given if there is no electricity to run the fans pushing gas in the gas pipeline. You can find out first-hand by climbing into your fridge and close the door (but please leave a breathing pipe in the door before closing the door). A household working fridge's chill/cool (but not freezer) section is supposed to maintain temperature below 40F but above 32F (freezer section is supposed to be below 20F). Try stay in there for 48hrs, and see if you can survive. If you die in that experiment and no legacy news organization has reported your death, then at that point will you have died?

Ukranians (and Baltics, as well as Poles and Romanians) have had 30 years of hard labor making exports (apparently a lot of switch gears for carmakers in the case of Ukraine). Much of the money earned from those exports have been sitting in banks. Demographics in all those countries have turned to near-zero to negative population growth in recent years. So the Ponzi Scheme gig is up. Tens of thousands, if not millions, of Ukrainians are set up to be killed so the banks don't have to pay back the deposits (when the Ukrainian state disappears, obviously all the future-fake retirement promises go away along with it, so the Ukrainian state won't have to withdraw money from the banks).

The average Ukie had no savings in the banks. They lived super simple lives.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita

Additionally, saving money in a Ukie bank was stupid given the typical inflation rate to interest rate paid on savings.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/296164/ukraine-inflation-rate/

The typical Ukie has nothing to fight for. Zelenski was not and is not popular in his own country.

The average Ukie was owed a social safety net and retirement by their future-faking government/cronies before the war, after the latter having taken the fruits of the average Ukie's labor for 30 years! The war gave a convenient excuse for the government/cronies to break the promises. Additionally, the banks also get a chances to kill many of the hired cronies and agents. Obviously, the cronies and Ukie banks put their money in western banks. Local Ukie currency is not real money but merely a script for the plantation.

The same thing with Russia (and China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). Haven't you noticed many Ukie and Russian oligarchs are mysteriously dying? as their accounts are harvested (as are their subordinates). Putin's mistress and their kids are living in Switzerland. If they didn't want Putin to invade Ukraine, wouldn't they have had far simpler and more direct solutions?

Misc says

The typical Ukie has nothing to fight for. Zelenski was not and is not popular in his own country.

That's not true, Zelenskyy was ONCE quite popular, since he ran on implementing the Minsk Accords and ending the civil war with East Ukraine.

Of course, he lied. Bush was once popular, Obama was once popular. I don't think Biden ever was.

Reality says

Try stay in there for 48hrs, and see if you can survive. If you die in that experiment and no legacy news organization has reported your death, then at that point will you have died?

With modern gear it's generally impossible to die in cold climates. That might be foreign in CA's Mediterranean type climate, but you simply don't freeze to death unless you're a complete moron.

I voluntarily went snowboarding in Big Sky, MT. Peak temp at 11k' was -5ºF and 40mph sustained winds. I had altitude issues and had to sit for 10 minutes getting blasted. Never once did I feel cold. Pure raw elements. Now give me even a half assed structure I could have been fine for months in the same scenario.

What I'm getting at is Ukrainians AND Russians know it's going to be cold. People that don't live in a cold climate 4-6 months of the year simply have no clue. I wear flip flops and shorts here in IL when it's 20ºF. Went to Disney World when it got down to 25ºF in January in 2017 I believe. Everyone was freaked out. They couldn't start diesel engines. It was embarrassing really.

Germany and Western Europe won't freeze either. They'll turn down the thermostat. The hyperbolic nature of the media is beyond reasoning. These people live in cold climates at times. Trust me, they have gear.

10min exposure in the freezer section (about 0 degrees-F) of a large refrigerator (like during retrieving meat from a meat locker) is not nearly as severe as 48+ hours of exposure in the fridge section. Are you not aware that death due to cold and/or heart attacks (during snow shoveling) shoot up dramatically during winter even in the snowbelt of the US? I personally go skiing almost every year. However, that doesn't mean a sustained electricity outage in the winter in my snow belt city would be enjoyed by millions of elderly as if it were a ski vacation (besides, how many people spend overnight at a ski lodge that has no electricity or hot tub? practically zero!) When you are on the ski slopes, how many 60+yo do you see? Do you think it is right for a government to kill people after they turn 60? like harvesting farm animals? That's what the banksters and governments under WEF are doing because they have spent people's retirement money! The population over 60 are the ones who have accumulated some resources (usually in the form of claims, whether it be bank savings, mutual funds, brokerage account, or social security account) for their own retirement.

I got my tongue stuck on my car in the Sierra once.

A friend in Santa Cruz spent a year in the military in Antarctica in the day. He talks about what a cluster fuck many of the men were. He said half spent the whole bunkered time drunk and he stayed out of their drinking mess hall.

He said one chronically drunk guy that he had to do stuff with almost killed him twice. Once, the guy ran a fork lift through the wall of the barracks right into my friend's bunk but he jumped away. Another, he was stuck with him in a vehicle where the guy insisted on going the wrong direction in a whiteout. My friend engaged a clever way to run across various pipes and physical objects to guard rail a way back or they would have died in the storm.

Reality says

Are you not aware that death due to cold and/or heart attacks (during snow shoveling) shoot up dramatically during winter even in the snowbelt of the US?

Fully aware. That's snow shoveling... kind of implied for the task. Not sure the point?

I'm not sure you're getting my point and maybe I have top notch gear. I've NEVER felt cold outdoors in the winter. I've literally taken off layers in cold temps. Russians and Ukrainians most certainly have cold weather gear where they could sleep on the ground if needed. Just fly fished the dam by Ennis, MT all day. In the water. 2' of snow around us. Cold weather is really no biggie.

Fact is you need to get sub 0º for it to matter. Western Europe really doesn't get there. Where it does they have the layers and gear. Siberia, northern Canada and the poles are a different story, but almost all cold weather places are manageable without electric or heat. Don't be an idiot when you know your surroundings and you'll be fine.

If you freeze to death and are elderly that's kind of on your offspring. And if you didn't have any, you likely have no friends. Not a huge loss to be honest. No one wanted you anyway. There's a reason you died alone...

WookieMan says

I'm not sure you're getting my point and maybe I have top notch gear.

I get your point very well. I have never felt cold outside myself either, but thousands of people die every winter day in the snow-belt USA (in excess of the other three seasons daily average) due to the cold (cold not only freeze people but also reduce immune system effectiveness). The average social security payout in the US is only about $1k per month, but the average net-worth of those between 55-75yo is over $1M (i.e. social security payment only covers a subset of bare subsistence cost); Ukraine has even more skewed wealth distribution than the US does; using the US ratios, we can estimate the "average" 55-75yo Ukrainian would have a networth in excess of $50k, of course largely due to some Ukranians being much more wealthy than others. The banks are trying to eliminate the account holders. Let's also not forget the multiple people dependent on each of the account holders of some wealth (that's just how societies work).

I know you have revealed elsewhere that you are in your 30's-40's, and you have a networth of over 1M. I don't find it tasteful to reveal that I was roughly double that when I was that age, and now 10x that a decade later. The point you were making essentially boils down to: when they came for the communists and trade unionists I didn't speak up because I was neither a communist nor a trade unionist, when they came for the Jews and homosexuals I didn't speak up because I was neither, when they came for the Catholics I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic . . . we know the stanza following that, don't we?

On top of that, deliberately killing bank account holders also threatens the stability of the banking system itself, and in this case endangering the willingness of people all over the world to be allies and trade partners with the US.

When the temperature is consistently in the 20's and 30'sF, with occasional spikes into the 10'sF, a house/apartment that has electricity cut off (therefore thermostat-controlled heaters stop working) would see pipes frozen, therefore end of reliable potable water supply. It doesn't matter how well insulating your Canada Goose is, when you can't survive without potable water. It wouldn't surprise me if there is real plague / TB breaking out in Ukraine.

No two news outlets spell the name of the Ukrainian president the same way.

Does anyone know the spelling on the MIC kickback checks???

Only 2-4 weeks before the Rasputitsa.

That being said, every book on History I ever read says KIEV not Kyiv or Ki'v or whatever.

What next, we have to say Munchen instead of Munich?

AmericanKulak says

That being said, every book on History I ever read says KIEV not Kyiv or Ki'v or whatever.

A friend of mine was talking to a bunch of his friends about the whole situation, and he mentioned "Kiev", they corrected him with "it's Kyiv, it's ALWAYS been Kyiv".

He's pretty quick on his feet, he responded with, "oh, like in Chicken Kyiv"?

I swear pronunciations change just to keep people inline with the propaganda so "they don't look stupid". I remember when Erdogan was Erdo-Gone and now it's Erdo-Wan. Neither is close to the real pronouncation.

https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=tr&text=Erdo%C4%9Fan&op=translate

If you click the little speaker in the right window, that's probably very close to the proper pronunciation. Something close to Air-do-whan.

Onvacation says

Patrick says

I don't think the Russians massacred large numbers of Poles like the Germans did.

Define "large numbers".

The Germans killed about a million Poles.

Patrick says

Onvacation says

Patrick says

I don't think the Russians massacred large numbers of Poles like the Germans did.

Define "large numbers".

The Germans killed about a million Poles.

The Polish trust no one. And they'll kill you if threatened. You will die. That's one country I'd never attack. They don't forget. I'm a mutt of Polish, Lithuanian and a sprinkle of German and Irish. Basically mostly Eastern European ancestor wise. Poles are peaceful people, but when the rubber meets the road there's a high probability you'll die.

If Russia is dumb enough to encroach on Poland, I wouldn't worry about NATO. The Polish will fucking kill them violently. No remorse. That's the kind of war that would be. Unless the Russians get sober it would be a blood bath for them. If they can't handle Ukraine, they're toast with a NATO Poland. Polish are probably some of the nicest people, but they'll rip your fucking face off if you attack them. They will organize and kill you. Frankly it's the most dangerous country on the planet as far as will to kill outside of the United states. Everyone else is a paper tiger or funded by the US.

WookieMan says

If Russia is dumb enough to encroach on Poland, I wouldn't worry about NATO. The Polish will fucking kill them violently. No remorse.

Poland was a vassal state of the USSR for almost 50 years.

I have no doubt of Poland's willingness to fight, to the death, but I have my reservations that they can prevail against Russia. Poland's population is 38 million versus 146 million Russians.

If Russia were to end up in a life or death conflict with the EU, I fear we're going to see a 1000 points of light. Russia either has the most nuclear weapons of any nation, or the 2nd most. The US is 1 or 2.

Nobody in their right mind wants a conflict. It's all well and good for armchair quarterback chickenhawks to sit safely on their Lazy-Boy recliner in the US and and the UK, but if I was in Poland, what good would a conflict with Russia be to me?

Ukraine wouldn't be at war if they didn't elect a Zionist traitor. How many Ukrainians want this stupid war? Any that do are nuts. Zelenskyy was elected on the promise he would implement the Minsk Accords, i.e. end the civil war between East and West, and since "at least he's not another goddamned politician", I can see why people did the hail mary pass. Trump was a hail mary pass, it was perceived that he couldn't be worse than the alternative.

Americans seem to love war, because even in the military, most of them never have to fight it, and the few that do fight the war, they are fighting 3rd world countries. It's dangerous, but it's more than a 10:1 kill ratio. These all end up as guerrilla wars which are basically unwinnable. Even when the war "is won", the insurgency (resistance?) still exists, and is just waiting.

Patrick says

Onvacation says

Patrick says

I don't think the Russians massacred large numbers of Poles like the Germans did.

Define "large numbers".

The Germans killed about a million Poles.

Russians killed somewhat less but still a very considerable amount: 22K military shot in Katyn, Ostashkovo, etc: https://warsawinstitute.org/katyn-massacre-mechanisms-genocide/
They also deported about 1.5M Poles to labor camps in 1939-1941, and out of those, about 1M survived. There were about a hundred thousand Poles killed in Stalin's purges in 1937-8, but those were ethnic Poles who were citizens of the USSR. So perhaps Russians killed a few hundred thousand less than Germans, but the difference seems to be not that high. On top of all that, Putin blew up a Polish Pres plane in 2010: http://smolenskcrash.eu/

I perfectly understand why Poles gave all their tanks to Ukraine, why they train and support Ukrainians to their own economic detriment, and why they have now the largest and best equipped army in probably all of Europe. If Ukraine falls, they are next, as history has repeatedly shown.

don’t know what it means, but maybe russia is running out of ammo? its on cnn, so could be false.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/23/europe/russia-ukraine-yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-campaign-intl-cmd/index.html

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

don’t know what it means, but maybe russia is running out of ammo? its on cnn, so could be false.

"Running out" is too strong term methinks. They simply can not shoot out as much as they please any more from what I read on Russian internets

Zelensky was calling for calm in Jan-Feb 2021 and told the Western press to stop inflaming tensions.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-president-tells-west-to-stop-causing-panic-about-russia-2022-1
https://web.archive.org/web/20220129130355/https://www.ft.com/content/97d15970-3c36-439d-aa38-7402f732efbc

And Biden:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220130111339/https://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-president-told-biden-calm-104928095.html

Poroshenko was far more aggressive towards Russia than Zelensky was pre-war. Here's Porky sabre rattling in 2018
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-s-response-ukraine-crisis-deploying-missile-system-crimea-n941111

richwicks says

Ukraine wouldn't be at war if they didn't elect a Zionist traitor.

Just say "Jew". Zionist is an ideal. Because somebody is Irish doesn't mean they're an (Irish) Republican.

The only public remarks I could find was that Zelensky made were comparing Israel, restored from the ages, with Ukraine, which has not been an independent state since the Mongol invasions.

AmericanKulak says

Just say "Jew".

No. There's a difference between a Jew and a Zionist.

Just like there's a difference between a KKK member, and somebody that happens to be a white anglo-saxon Protestant.

They aren't the same.

A Zionist is nothing more than a Jewish supremacist. Think about it, the KKK (at the end) wanted a country run by them and controlled by them. If you weren't at least sympathetic to them, you were called "a nigger lover". Well Zionists want a country run by them and controlled by them, and if you're Jewish and aren't a Zionist, you're called a "self hating Jew" and if you're not Jewish you're called "anti-semtic".

Zionists use precisely the same tactics the KKK used.

The KKK is complex too, just as Zionism is. The KKK started as a lose confederation in the south to protect people from carpetbaggers from the North that raided plantations and stole property. They started out as being a militia group against bands of thugs from the North and over time, the only thing that remained of them, was the ugliness of their movement. Now, they're just FIB. The KKK no longer exists, and really, good riddance.

Zionism is ancient, and that's more complex than I currently understand, but I do fully understand it's current incarnation. At the top levels, it's basically a mafia. They hire only within their ingroup which is why you don't see any anti-Zionist Jews in power in government, or even industry.

AmericanKulak says

The only public remarks I could find was that Zelensky made were comparing Israel, restored from the ages,

He's an actor reading from a script.

Ukraine is controlled by the Zionist mafia.

richwicks says

Ukraine wouldn't be at war if they didn't elect a Zionist traitor. How many Ukrainians want this stupid war?

I'd wager far more Ukrainians are willing to fight and defend their country from Putin's "stupid war" than there are Russians willing to drop everything and go get killed or grievously maimed trying to grab land from their next door neighbor.

richwicks says

Zionism is ancient, and that's more complex than I currently understand, but I do fully understand it's current incarnation. At the top levels, it's basically a mafia. They hire only within their ingroup which is why you don't see any anti-Zionist Jews in power in government, or even industry.

It's a nationalist movement.

And by the way, most nationalist movements do launder money, smuggle things, etc to raise money. Whether Kurds or IRA or Basques. The PLO and Hamas certainly do so for the Fake Arab sub-Ethnicity called "Palestinian", a geographical term used by the KGB to create a fake new difference in generic West Levantine Arabs.

richwicks says

A Zionist is nothing more than a Jewish supremacist.

Nationalist. I could claim that the Irish, the vast majority of whom already spoke English natively, were just being Celtic Supremacists by demanding they be out of the UK despite British rule for many centuries beforehand.

Palestinians are just Arab Supremacists. They were fine as part of a greater Caliphate, which is what the Grand Mufti of Jersualem first wanted from the ashes of the Ottomans. And they were fine under Egyptians (gaza) or Jordan (Judea/Samaria aka the neologism "West Bank"). They had no desire to be independent so long as they had fellow Arab rule. No Intifadas against King Hussein or Nassr's illegal annexations, as they were fellow Arabs.

Given the history of the Middle East, Jews would be morons to have to struggle like Kurds, Druze, Armenians, etc. to be a minority under Arab Supremacy.

socal2 says

richwicks says

Ukraine wouldn't be at war if they didn't elect a Zionist traitor. How many Ukrainians want this stupid war?

I'd wager far more Ukrainians are willing to fight and defend their country from Putin's "stupid war" than there are Russians willing to drop everything and go get killed or grievously maimed trying to grab land from their next door neighbor.

Maybe, I don't know.

Ever heard of the "Just War" theory?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria

This war fails on competent authority, probability of success and last resort. This could have simply been avoided by implementing the Minsk Accords, at least according to Putin, who MIGHT have been lying. That's possible, but if it was lying, and there would have been war anyhow, what harm was there in ending their civil war?

AmericanKulak says

And the Palestinians are Arab Supremacists.

Maybe, I don't know.

AmericanKulak says

They were fine as part of a greater Caliphate, which is what the Grand Mufti of Jersualem first wanted. And they were fine under Egyptians (gaza) or Jordan (Judea/Samaria aka the neologism "West Bank"). They had no desire to be independent so long as they had fellow Arab rule.

Palestinians are not well accepted in the rest of the Arab world, that's part of their dilemma. Those that could leave decades ago, did. What we see today are the fanatics who are willing to fight a lost cause, and those that simply cannot escape. They're fucked.

In time, I expect Israel to complete take over the West Bank. What happens to the Palestinians there I don't know. Killed, put onto reservations, just driven out, I don't know. When they're done with that, I expect Gaza to be retaken.

Israel says, officially, they want a "two state solution" TO THE WEST. In Israel they say there will never be a two state solution, and that's the truth. If Israel wanted a two state solution, they could have one tomorrow. They could simply declare their borders, and whatever is left, that's "Palestine". They don't need to negotiate, they have the military might to do it right now. They've had this ability for decades.

richwicks says

Poland was a vassal state of the USSR for almost 50 years.

Yes, the part of Poland that was not outright annexed by the USSR. And before that, Poland was an independent country only between WW1 and WW2. Prior to WW1, "Poland" was completely engulfed by the German and Russian empires.

richwicks says

The KKK is complex too, just as Zionism is. The KKK started as a lose confederation in the south to protect people from carpetbaggers from the North that raided plantations and stole property. They started out as being a militia group against bands of thugs from the North and over time, the only thing that remained of them, was the ugliness of their movement. Now, they're just FIB. The KKK no longer exists, and really, good riddance.

The KKK in the North also tried to stop the Boss System, where Democrats used minorities, to pack corrupt City Governments and rewarded loyal mostly Catholic Immigrant (First Irish, Later Italian) supporters with big jobs. That's why Frank Trump was a member, a Protestant trying to remove Catholic-Democrat Tammany influence in the city and not having to pay the machine.

There were Orange and Green Riots in Manhattan in the 19th Century.

HeadSet says

Yes, the part of Poland that was not outright annexed by the USSR. And before that, Poland was an independent country only between WW1 and WW2. Prior to WW1, "Poland" was completely engulfed by the German and Russian empires.

The first Partition, Russia was invited to take a slice after Prussia drew up plans with Austria/Hapsburgs to carve up Poland, esp. Silesia. EDIT: This was to prevent Russia from intervening on behalf of Poland.

Silesia was the river mouths where Polish Rivers drained, and gave the Prussians control over tariffs and trade to the sea from most of Poland.

The third, the Russians split Poland three ways between themselves, the Austrians, and the Prussians.

AmericanKulak says

The KKK in the North also tried to stop the Boss System, where Democrats used minorities, to pack corrupt City Governments and rewarded loyal mostly Catholic Immigrant (First Irish, Later Italian) supporters with big jobs. That's why Frank Trump was a member, a Protestant trying to remove Catholic-Democrat Tammany influence in the city and not having to pay the machine.

I'm entirely ignorant about this part of the history of the KKK. I'll have to do some reading. I know the general beginning of the KKK and the ultimate demise of it, but not the middle parts of it.

Groups change. For example, I respect the 1950's liberals. By the 1960's they started to go corrupt, by the 70's even more so. All the nonsense and scaremongering on overpopulation, energy resources and so on MIGHT have been honest errors (in many cases probably not) but today, liberal is a dirty word.

richwicks says

Palestinians are not well accepted in the rest of the Arab world, that's part of their dilemma. Those that could leave decades ago, did. What we see today are the fanatics who are willing to fight a lost cause, and those that simply cannot escape. They're fucked.

In time, I expect Israel to complete take over the West Bank. What happens to the Palestinians there I don't know. Killed, put onto reservations, just driven out, I don't know. When they're done with that, I expect Gaza to be retaken.

Palestinians are basically done for, the reason they are not liked is:

1. Attempt to take over Jordan (Black September)
2. Celebrated Saddam, who was a threat to Kuwait and later Saudi Arabia. Palestinians who lived in Kuwait welcomed Saddam's Army with open arms and cheering.
3. Participated in the Iranian Revolution (various factions love or hate them there, not sure of the exact details)
4. Helped kick off the Lebanese Civil War (when they were exiled by King Hussein after Black September)
5. Are general Schnorrers (Give us Monies! We fight the Zios! Good Arabs give fellow Arabstinians monies!)
7. Rich Palestinians are a nuisance in the Gulf (Why are you living in a penthouse on your water bottle wealth, not fixing the water treatment plant in Gaza, or not back in Ramallah attacking Zionists?)
8. Famous for Terrorism, which smears all Arabs.
9. Most Palestinians are firm Socialists.
10. Most Palestinians are quite Secular - too much for more traditional or moderate Arabs.

richwicks says

Israel says, officially, they want a "two state solution" TO THE WEST. In Israel they say there will never be a two state solution, and that's the truth. If Israel wanted a two state solution, they could have one tomorrow. They could simply declare their borders, and whatever is left, that's "Palestine". They don't need to negotiate, they have the military might to do it right now. They've had this ability for decades.

A two-state was hoped for, but it concessions don't stop the terror. It's a long game to reconquest Samaria and Judea while giving the UN and Euro Leftists a headpat for a time.

Gulf Arabs have been long ready to make peace and friendship with Israel.

AmericanKulak says

Palestinians are basically done for, the reason they are not liked is:

1. Attempt to take over Jordan (Black September)
2. Celebrated Saddam, who was a threat to Kuwait and later Saudi Arabia.
3. Participated in the Iranian Revolution (various factions love or hate them there, not sure of the exact details)
4. Helped kick off the Lebanese Civil War (when they were exiled by King Hussein after Black September)
5. Are general Schnorrers (Give us Monies! We fight the Zios! Good Arabs give fellow Arabstinians monies!)
7. Rich Palestinians are a nuisance in the Gulf (Why are you living in a penthouse on your water bottle wealth, not fixing the water treatment plant in Gaza, or not back in Ramallah attacking Zionists?)
8. Famous for Terrorism, which smears all Arabs.
9. Most Palestinians are firm Socialists.
10. Most Palestinians are quite Secular - too much for more traditional or moderate Arabs.

The Palestinians were NEVER liked. That's why there were 1/2 million Palestinian refugees by 1950, and the rest of the Arab world didn't do anything about it. Nobody cares.

The only thing I appreciate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict today is that it opened up my eyes to the gross hypocrisy and dishonesty of the United States. When I was 20, and FAR stupider than I am now, I actually believed the US had principles. Ohhh, to be naive again. I do resent being systematically propagandized for 20 years, and the next 10 years sucked as I spent that time trying to figure out if ANYTHING in "news" was unbiased or truthful. Then it was another 10 years feeling I might be nuts because I could see our media as complete propaganda but hardly anybody else around me could, and even when I did find the rarity, I suspected they were just humoring me.

I'm really grateful for Trump, he put all my doubts to rest. Having the corporate press lie so blatantly for 4 years, finally vindication. Only took me to 45, and now I feel stupid for EVER believing that what a corporate propaganda system told me was true in order to sell tampons, deodorant, and cough medicines.

I know people older than me though, better educated than me, SMARTER than me, who still think Fox or CNN, or The Economist, or whatever, is "a good news source". Maybe I shouldn't feel so suckered and stupid but I really wish I knew this 30 years ago. Wish I had a mentor and didn't have to figure this out myself.

richwicks says

The only thing I appreciate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict today is that it opened up my eyes to the gross hypocrisy and dishonesty of the United States. When I was 20, and FAR stupider than I am now, I actually believed the US had principles. Ohhh, to be naive again. I do resent being systematically propagandized for 20 years, and the next 10 years sucked as I spent that time trying to figure out if ANYTHING in "news" was unbiased or truthful. Then it was another 10 years feeling I might be nuts because I could see our media as complete propaganda but hardly anybody else around me could, and even when I did find the rarity, I suspected they were just humoring me.

There was no US-Israeli close relationship until after 1967, when it became clear that the Soviet Union was dumping huge amounts of war material to the Syrians and Egyptians.

Israeli and Soviet pilots got into dogfights during the Secret War:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noXPLL7pyfU

Interestingly, the Soviet pilots got their asses handed to them just like the Arabs had it, much to their chagrin - the Soviet Pilots insisted the Arab Pilots weren't following their Soviet sponsored training.

A Cold War conspiracy theory was "The Jews are all in league with the USSR"

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Zionism is ancient, and that's more complex than I currently understand, but I do fully understand it's current incarnation. At the top levels, it's basically a mafia. They hire only within their ingroup which is why you don't see any anti-Zionist Jews in power in government, or even industry.

It's a nationalist movement.

Yes, for Israel.

Zionists represent the interests of Israel first, doesn't matter if they are in Ukraine, the United States, Canada, New Zealand, France, that's irrelevant. They get support from Israel and other Zionists, and if (when) they attain power or financial success, they in turn send money back to Israel.

Look, I'm not complaining about it, and I'm not bitter about it, but it irritates me to no end that people deny it. It's right in front of your face. If Americans are too stupid to recognize what is going on, well, fuck 'em.

AmericanKulak says

A Cold War conspiracy theory was "The Jews are all in league with the USSR"

Well Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were. They were executed on June 19th. Happy Juneteenth day, because they WERE guilty. KGB archives from after the collapse of the USSR proves it, but this didn't stop their kids from still championing their (fake) innocence.

Karl Marx was Jewish, and he is the one that created the whole concept of communism. It was claimed for a long time that the USSR was run by Jews almost exclusively in the early days and if you are to believe Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in "200 years together" this is true, IF you are to believe him. Many people make this claim, I don't care if it's true or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Hundred_Years_Together

The book hasn't been fully translated to English (yet) but it will be. I'll perhaps read it then.