patrick.net

richwicks says

It is a racial group, not a religious group. Karl Marx was just simply a racial bigot.

Karl Marx didn't like Jews, period, the religious or secular kind.

richwicks says

All wars do is kill our strongest men, it's suicidal to every nation.

This X's 10. It's the reason we're sending weapons to Ukraine. We don't actually care about either Russia or Ukraine. I think the goal is to neuter that part of the globe for generations.

As long as Western Europe can keep their shit together this war could stabilize that entire part of the globe for 50 years. If China and Taiwan issue calms itself, we should have a long period of peace outside of a US war hawk looking to stir the shit, which is probable.

AmericanKulak says

Karl Marx didn't like Jews, period,

Karl Marx was Jewish.

WookieMan says

As long as Western Europe can keep their shit together this war could stabilize that entire part of the globe for 50 years. If China and Taiwan issue calms itself,

It would be stable right now and for the next 50 years if we just got rid of our state department

All the US does is destabilize places, including the US. Our government sucks.

richwicks says

All the US does is destabilize places, including the US. Our government sucks.

Where did I dispute that? That is the point of what we're doing over there. Never said I liked it. I'm telling you the strategy and reasoning. The US wants less Russian men alive and they're succeeding by proxy by killing a bunch of corrupt Ukrainians and Russians.

If Russia has no young men to run industry or fight, they're fucked. This isn't complex. We haven't put a US soldier at the front line so who gives a shit? Money could have been better spent is the only thing. Russians can't even run their own infrastructure without Western assistance. We need Elon Musk to send Cosmonauts to the space station at this point and other engineers to run their oil and gas fields.

Russian young men dying stabilizes the globe. Instead of WTF or complaining about the US, prove me wrong... It's been almost a decade since we started shit with American troops. So it's a money issue at this point. And if we didn't do stuff like this, others would to us. Remember Trump dropped the largest non-nuclear bomb (MOAB) in Afghanistan. It wasn't necessary because we didn't need to be there yet he still kept it going.

I suppose if you want Russian troops in Omaha Nebraska with tanks and planes call me stupid then. Because that's what happens when you live in the place with the most resources and infrastructure on the planet. Apparently you guys don't get out of CA much or the country.

WookieMan says

Where did I dispute that? That is the point of what we're doing over there. Never said I liked it. I'm telling you the strategy and reasoning

I think the reasoning is incorrect. The US purposely destabilizes places because it's easier to steal in a warzone than in a working society.

WookieMan says

We need Elon Musk to send Cosmonauts to the space station at this point and other engineers to run their oil and gas fields.

I don't know if this is true.

WookieMan says

And if we didn't do stuff like this, others would to us

I doubt this. Why? We made a shitload of enemies over the last 20 years.

WookieMan says

Remember Trump dropped the largest non-nuclear bomb (MOAB) in Afghanistan. It wasn't necessary because we didn't need to be there yet he still kept it going.

That was a PR move. Geraldo Rivera practically blew a load in his pants when that was done.

WookieMan says

I suppose if you want Russian troops in Omaha Nebraska with tanks and planes call me stupid then.

There is no threat of Russian troops entering the United States.

The US screams in pain as they beat others. Russia isn't the problem, our government is the problem.

cisTits says

WookieMan says

I suppose if you want Russian troops in Omaha Nebraska with tanks and planes call me stupid then

WTF 2.0

Your gaslighting is getting just plain sloppy now.

This is cute. Iwog 2.0. Make an intelligent comment and maybe people would take you seriously. Tit photos don't count. I'm sorry you need to resort to porn and nudes to get your flaccid cock hard instead of a chick. Enjoy your cheesy, shit nudes all you want. Clearly can't get the real deal yourself.

cisTits says

https://patrick.net/post/1379041/2023-04-10-leaked-ukraine-war-docs-make-ukey-nazi

I'd be cautious with this. Glenn Greenwald believes this is a limited hangout, and they may be falsified anyhow.

The video begins at about 7:27


original link

Don't just assume he's correct, but his pointing out a group of warning signs about them. It may be a "leak" that's still underplaying the calamity and trying to assign blame for the failure of Ukraine which is (in my opinion) inevitable.

In my experience real links are accompanied by denials by the corporate media. This leak isn't being contested all over the place.

I still believe this war will go on until at least 2024. The Deep State can't have a loss when whatever puppet they run for the president is up for election. If Trump is not allowed to run, or if he "loses" the nomination, for whatever reason, it could end in 2024.

cisTits says

richwicks says

It may be a "leak" that's still underplaying the calamity and trying to assign blame for the failure of Ukraine which is (in my opinion) inevitable.

Oh definitely. Doesn't mean they are false, tho.

At the end of this, the number of dead and causalities on the Ukrainian side I expect to be VASTLY underestimated. I don't think Ukraine has a military anymore to speak of, I think most of them are dead, and they will soon be replaced by EU mercenaries, and THEY will die.

When this comes out, after YEARS of war, it won't be reported upon in our "corporate news", and nobody will care when they hear it from the tinfoil hat brigade of which I'm a part. I think by the point, there will be a legitimate excuse, we'll have other problems to worry about and it won't be about not being able to pay for Monday Night Football or that Fags on a Can are being put on pisswater beer. We'll have real problems then. You're not going to be worried about transtime story hour, you're not going to care about liberals "transitioning" their kids, you're going to be worried about fundamental things.

And I'm going to be happy, because finally, you're going to have to be worried about your sociopathic criminal murderous government, because their sights will be on you. That's if, I'm still alive. We've been warning for decades "this is a fucking danger", but no, we're paranoid, so we have the patriot act, and a surveillance state, because all is well - you make enough money, you have a comfortable house, who gives a shit?

richwicks says

At the end of this, the number of dead and causalities on the Ukrainian side I expect to be VASTLY underestimated. I don't think Ukraine has a military anymore to speak of, I think most of them are dead, and they will soon be replaced by EU mercenaries, and THEY will die.

Both sides are under estimating their casualties. Both are fucked for at least a generation. This conflict has been going on for almost a decade already. It's just now Russia officially put their troops to the front lines for the last year. This was going on when Trump was in office. He didn't do what Obama did, but he didn't stop the conflict either, not that he could. It just escalated under Biden because he's an idiot and likely profiting off this personally somehow.

Russia has had access to Crimea for almost a decade now, so that point is bull shit. There was no point in this fight. This is a stupid ethnic battle over land that will ALWAYS happen on bordering nations with Russia.

And why do you think Russia is trying to align with China. They're fucking scared. The red box on the image hasn't been fully explored for oil in gas in a meaningful way. While Russia is busy with Ukraine the Chinese could, and I argue should easily take land that has oil and gas and is a close distance to be piped in to China and they control it. Not Russia. China could throw 10M men with simple rifles and take and hold most of eastern Russia to the Bering Straits.

I give no shits about Ukraine. The money pisses me off but at least it's not people I know that are sent over there dying. Russia is in a shit position so they're licking Chinese cock to sell oil and gas AND not have them just take their land which they easily could do. Geographically it would put them in a better position to attack the US and house 1.5B people even though it's cold. Everyone is hung up on Taiwan. If the Chinese are smart they'd be amassing troops to the Southeast of Russia for a summer assault. Very, very few people live in that region. It would be easy.

The Europeans are NOT freezing and never were. That has been a media lie to pump up Ukraine support. They're getting gas and will get more.... https://carnegieendowment.org/publications/interactive/russia-oil-map/

If people cannot see what all this is about they're retarded. WE are winning the war whether it is corrupt or not. This isn't about a Russia and Ukrainian fight. Nordstream is down. We sell gas and oil. Russia is losing men that can operate their system when sober. China wants gas and oil and at some point will just take it. This has been playing out for decades. 90% of Russias land is shit outside of resources that they extract at an extremely inefficient way, drunk. Ukraine is toast, but Russia likely collapses and that's when it gets scary with nukes.

I HATE Biden and our government, but strategically what we're doing makes sense AND it's not costing US lives. And yes people are making out like bandits stateside. Contractors, MIC and other businesses. Biden has failed though in not pushing China to go after Russia. That's where Trump may have succeeded. Change the focus to Russia and start another proxy war with China and Russia. Taiwan issue goes away and China doesn't know what to do with it anyway. We get our iPhones. China get gas and oil that they control. This is the long game of this conflict. Doesn't matter if it's corrupt. It burns other nations resources and people and we become more powerful. The concern is how WE use that power.

Are we still waiting on the big Russian offensive this winter after they made a huge deal about their mobilization - or is what we are seeing in Bakhmut the extent of it?

Western media is pumping up a big Ukrainian counteroffensive sometime in the next few weeks as thousands of Ukrainians have finished their training in Western Europe along with the arrival of Western tanks and other armored vehicles. Russian media is also making a big deal about a possible Ukrainian counteroffensive interviewing Russian and Wagners on the front line setting up defensive positions.

I think we will all have a bit more clarity on which way this thing will go in the coming weeks and months.

Scenario 1: Ukraine loses Scenario 2: Ukraine loses Scenario 3: Ukraine loses Scenario 4: Ukraine loses and is partitioned amongst all those countries whose territories were annexed into Ukraine in WWII Scenario 5. Ukraine is nuked, who cares about losing, possibly by us, to hide the evidences of Western systemic criminal enterprises there..

If you want to see how Ukraine is winning, and Russia, Russia, Russia is running away like a scalded dog, watch CNN. It's so nice to live in a time when so many creative liars will give us the false reality we prefer.

Ceffer says

If you want to see how Ukraine is winning, and Russia, Russia, Russia is running away like a scalded dog, watch CNN.

I just have to look at the battle maps to KNOW that Russia is not achieving their stated goals from over a year ago. Russia lost half their territory gains months ago and have been stuck in a grinding standstill in Eastern Ukraine since November.

Does anyone deny that battle lines have been largely stagnant since Ukraine recaptured all the land around Kherson and Kharkiv last Fall? I watch alot of Russian propaganda shows and they show the same battle maps that I am seeing from Western sources.

I am not going to pretend or predict that Ukraine is going to be able drive every Russian troop off their land. We will know more in the coming weeks if Ukraine attempts a counteroffensive and if it is successful. I do think Ukraine has enough men and Western support to hold off Russia indefinitely as it takes less troops to defend land than to conquer. How many troops does Russia have for the harder mission of occupation if they ever consolidate their hold on Ukrainian territory?

socal2 says

I just have to look at the battle maps to KNOW that Russia is not achieving their stated goals from over a year ago.

What are Russia's stated goals?

richwicks says

What are Russia's stated goals?

The goal as stated by Putin several times was to "Denazify and demilitarize Ukraine" and to prevent future encroachment of NATO on Russian borders.

Hence the reason why Putin sent thousands of troops to topple the national government in Kiev (who controls the military and apparently all the "Nazees") early on in the invasion.

Kiev is still standing, Ukraine has recaptured much of the land lost to Russia in the early months of the war and Russia now has a brand new NATO member (Finland) on their border.

Again, I am not pretending this war is over or that Russia can't recover. All I am saying that "right now" Russia is not achieving their stated military and geopolitical goals.

socal2 says

richwicks says

What are Russia's stated goals?

The goal as stated by Putin several times was to "Denazify and demilitarize Ukraine" and to prevent future encroachment of NATO on Russian borders.

Do the stated goals matter? Can we not observe and infer what Mr Putin's objectives are?


Fielding quick-fire questions from supporters in Russia’s European exclave of Kaliningrad, Putin was asked what Russian historical event he would like to change.

“The collapse of the Soviet Union,” Putin immediately shot back.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-putin-idUSKCN1GE2TF

The 'recaptured' land was a shooting gallery flatlands that Russia ceded back rather than defend while pointlessly losing soldiers. It's not proof of anything other than a killing field of whoever occupies it at the present. It's amazing that they keep citing this as evidence of failure.

The Russians rain rockets on it to kill more Ukrainian sitting ducks. They can mop it up later after they finish disposing of what's left of the Ukrainian army and its ragged conscripts and grinding up all those weapons that haven't wound up on the black markets.

socal2 says

richwicks says

What are Russia's stated goals?

The goal as stated by Putin several times was to "Denazify and demilitarize Ukraine" and to prevent future encroachment of NATO on Russian borders.

Oh, those goals will be attained.

Ukraine is going to be destroyed.

The real goal of Russia is to weaken NATO and the United States.

The goal of the United States is money laundering and feeding the MIC, and also preventing Russia from exporting energy to Europe so that the US can control Europe through energy imports. They are also trying to restart the Cold War, which you could argue has already been achieved.

socal2 says

Kiev is still standing, Ukraine has recaptured much of the land lost to Russia in the early months of the war and Russia now has a brand new NATO member (Finland) on their border.

This doesn't matter. Russia will just retake it. Their aim is destroying the military, not taking land. The entire Ukrainian military will be wiped out in the end. They don't have an airforce, that alone makes them fucked.

socal2 says

Again, I am not pretending this war is over or that Russia can't recover. All I am saying that "right now" Russia is not achieving their stated military and geopolitical goals.

Of course not. This is a long term proxy war between Russia and the United States. It will take YEARS and both will achieve their objectives - well, the US won't, they're not going to significantly weaken Russia, but Europe will be weakened, but I think the US wants that.

Ceffer says

The 'recaptured' land was a shooting gallery flatlands that Russia ceded back rather than defend while pointlessly losing soldiers.

Then why did Russia waste thousands of lives and massive amount of material to take this land in the first place if they were just going to give abandon it?

Ceffer says

The Russians rain rockets on it to kill more Ukrainian sitting ducks. They can mop it up later after they finish disposing of what's left of the Ukrainian army and its ragged conscripts and grinding up all those weapons that haven't wound up on the black markets.

Yes - we know. Russia has been doing this from the start. Yet they possess less land in Ukraine today then they did a year ago despite massive loss of life.

BTW - how many more "seasoned" and well trained troops does Russia have left to throw into the Ukrainian meat grinder? They lost alot of experienced troops in the initial push to take Kiev. Russia already had to plumb the depths of the well by using convicts, Wagner, Chechans, Syrians, and Iranians. Got to believe new conscripts in Ukraine will be better motivated, trained and equipped then the new conscripts Russia is pulling from their far flung ethnic provinces to fight an increasingly unpopular war.

socal2 says

Ceffer says

The 'recaptured' land was a shooting gallery flatlands that Russia ceded back rather than defend while pointlessly losing soldiers.

Then why did Russia waste thousands of lives and massive amount of material to take this land in the first place if they were just going to give abandon it?

To kill Ukrainian soldiers. They are destroying the Ukrainian military.

We do not know, and don't pretend we do know, how many Russians were killed in these efforts. We don't know. Our government has been lying for decades about every war. This is no different.

Once the Ukrainian military is gone, it's pretty easy to retake land, especially in Eastern Ukraine which have been bombed and attacked since 2014.

socal2 says

Ceffer says

The Russians rain rockets on it to kill more Ukrainian sitting ducks. They can mop it up later after they finish disposing of what's left of the Ukrainian army and its ragged conscripts and grinding up all those weapons that haven't wound up on the black markets.

Yes - we know. Russia has been doing this from the start. Yet they possess less land in Ukraine today then they did a year ago despite massive loss of life.

BTW - how many more "seasoned" and well trained troops does Russia have left to throw into the Ukrainian meat grinder? They lost alot of experienced troops in the initial push to take Kiev. Russia already had to plumb the depths of the well by using convicts, Wagner, Chechans, Syrians, and Iranians. Got to believe new conscripts in Ukraine will be better motivated, trained and equipped then the new conscripts Russia is pulling from their far flung ethnic provinces to fight an increasingly unpopular war.

You don't know. Our government lies. You know this. There was just a limited hangout release of supposedly "secret documents", this is to ease the public into accepting part of the reality.

Our government is lying.

There's certainly Russian troops being killed, no doubt. But Ukraine is a smaller country, and they have less people. If it was a 1:1 kill ratio, Ukraine would STILL lose, and it's at least 4:1 - according to the "secret documents". Once all the Ukrainian military is wiped out, it's either NATO actually goes to war with Russia (unlikely) or it's going to be a mercenary effort.

There's no air support for Ukraine, because NATO or the United States would have to do that, and that's WWIII. Nobody is going to win that.

Ukraine is on a suicide mission, just the Ukrainians don't know that's the course their traitor president Zelensky and his immediate handler, Ihor Kolomoyskyi has set them on. The only question about the end of this stupid conflict, is how many people pointlessly die?

LOL! Partition en route. "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for an Army today!" Will Hungary and Romania get their chunks, too?

https://t.me/DH_newz/2677

Ceffer says

LOL! Partition en route. "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for an Army today!" Will Hungary and Romania get their chunks, too?

https://t.me/DH_newz/2677

If this is true, this is an intentional breakup of Ukraine, that was part of the reason for starting the war.

Whereʼs the map updates? Has it been abandoned?

Here, I'll help:

richwicks says

If this is true, this is an intentional breakup of Ukraine, that was part of the reason for starting the war.

And a very, very old & repeated process. Poland-Lithuania, Austria, Russia, Prussia, all have had fun partioning Ukraine over the centuries.

Hey, about that clever idea of having a price cap on Russian oil ??????

It was set at $60 per barrel. Funny Russian crude averaged in at $74 per barrel in August.

Oh, I'm sure the Europeans can explain away the new highs for the volume of Russian LNG they imported as well.

WOW. Reality doesn't hold up to the rhetoric. Here's the funny commentary from our Treasury Department.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-price-cap-on-russian-oil-a-progress-report

Map update, plz:

A Russian-appointed official has acknowledged that Moscow's forces have abandoned the Ukrainian village of Robotyne, more than a week after Kyiv announced its recapture.
Yevgeny Balitsky, the top Moscow-installed official in the Zaporizhzhia region, said in a television interview that the Russian army had withdrawn for what he called tactical reasons.
"The Russian army abandoned - tactically abandoned - this settlement because staying on a bare surface when there is no way to completely dig in... doesn't generally make sense. Therefore the Russian army moved off into the hills," news outlet RBC quoted him as saying.
Russia has not previously acknowledged the loss of Robotyne, whose recapture was announced by Ukraine on Aug. 28. In its daily update on Tuesday, the Russian Defence Ministry said its forces had repelled two Ukrainian attacks near Robotyne.
More than 18 months after Russia's invasion, Ukraine says it is gaining ground and has broken through Russia's first line of fortifications in several places on the front line, despite repeated statements from Moscow that Ukraine's three-month-old counteroffensive has been a failure.
Reporting by Mark Trevelyan;

Oh wow! They gave up A VILLAGE!

How many stoplights did it have?

How many Ukeys died to capture it?

https://kyivindependent.com/new-brigade-bears-heavy-brunt-of-russias-onslaught-in-kharkiv-oblast/

Ukeys are so attritted, they are sending 71 year olds to NATO training camps now.

…that’s right: FT identified a 71-year-old Ukrainian in the ranks of the NATO-sponsored training program. While perhaps admirable in terms of the individual elderly man’s courage and willingness to defend his country, the whole scenario underscores the sad state of affairs within Ukraine military ranks, given they are sending geriatrics.

https://www.gulf-insider.com/ft-discovers-71-year-old-ukrainian-in-nato-training-program/

Trollhole says

Oh wow! They gave up A VILLAGE!

How many stoplights did it have?

How many Ukeys died to capture it?

Russia has been losing territory and men for over a year now in Ukraine.

How many Russians have died in the past 18 months just to embarrass and expose Russia to the whole world as nothing but a 3rd rate fighting force?

In what universe does Russia come out of this for the better?

socal2 says

Russia has been losing territory and men for over a year now in Ukraine.

How many Russians have died in the past 18 months just to embarrass and expose Russia to the whole world as nothing but a 3rd rate fighting force?

In what universe does Russia come out of this for the better?

Everything you just wrote is either wilfully taken out of context or just pure propaganda bullshit.

Ukeys in their desperation to win a war over territory have become embroiled into a war of attrition instead. One they are losing and the Russians are winning, period.

Trollhole says

Everything you just wrote is either wilfully taken out of context or just pure propaganda bullshit.

What is false or out of context?

There can be no disputing that Russia has less conquered territory in Ukraine today than they had 1 year ago despite spending BILLIONS on material and tens of thousands of Russian lives.

There can be no disputing that Russia's cockup invasion created new NATO members right on their border and united most of the world against them.

Face it - Russia lost in the first month of the war failing to topple Kiev and the leadership. They have no hope but to continue a grinding trench battle against better armed and motivated Ukrainians.

What does a "win" look like for Russia at this point?

Look at the stupid and bold map predictions on this thread from a year ago. Russia is in the process of losing a big chunk of the "Certain" territory right now.

So much winning! Just need another Russian mobilization to sort things out!

socal2 says

What is false or out of context?

I'll field this:

socal2 says

Russia has been losing territory and men for over a year now in Ukraine.

Russia isn't interested in keeping every inch of territory. The more territory they have, the more they have to defend. They are primarily interested in destroying the Ukrainian military. They may repeatedly take, and give up land in order to do that.

socal2 says

How many Russians have died in the past 18 months just to embarrass and expose Russia to the whole world as nothing but a 3rd rate fighting force?

We don't now and our government constantly lies to us. Just like there was no weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq, Qaddafi wasn't handing out Viagra to soldiers to rape little girls, and there's ZERO evidence that Assad was responsible for the gassing in Ghouta, and the US lied about a chemical attack in Douma.

Now having said that, leaks were important in assessing the situation. The Niger documents were forgeries, we had the Downing Street Memo leak. There wasn't any leaks about Libya, but I didn't look for it, because the justification for bombing Libya was just obvious propaganda. The OPCW had whistleblowers that explained what actually happened in Douma.

The only real leak I know of in this war, is the Discord leaks. It might be false, but IF it's true, the death rate is 7:1 - 7 Ukrainians for every 1 Russian killed.

I don't know why the government ALWAYS pretends when we know they are lying, but I know they are doing it now. Why do you believe it?

socal2 says

In what universe does Russia come out of this for the better?

The Ukrainian military will not exist in the end, Russia has stronger trade relations with India and China, and Russia will have an inroad into Africa for trade.

Russia will also end energy exports to Europe, which will drastically reduce the desire of the US to attack Russia again.

Both Russia and the US will end up ahead. US is now a major energy supplier to Europe. Europe is the big loser.

Here's a redpill on a different tack:

Notice the Ukraine will draft ill, disabled, large # of dependents, etc. men before it will draft healthy young Camgirls and female Club Goers.

That being said, Russia is clearly NOT a threat because of their complete shit performance in Ukraine. By sheer weight of men and materiale they should have been in Kiev at a week, tops.

AmericanKulak says

That being said, Russia is clearly NOT a threat because of their complete shit performance in Ukraine. By sheer weight of men and materiale they should have been in Kiev at a week, tops.

You know how the US foreign policy is controlled by a bunch of Neocon assholes that create unnecessary wars, that last for years, and they don't even bother to have a mission or goal in the war? For example, what was the mission / goal of Afghanistan? How about Iraq?

So, you know how Ukraine is controlled by a bunch of Neocon assholes...

Russia will completely destroy the Ukrainian military, and Ukraine's military isn't going to collapse due to lack of weapons or money, it will be the lack of men. Voila! Ukraine is neutral then. Mission accomplished.

socal2 says

What is false or out of context?

There can be no disputing that Russia has less conquered territory in Ukraine today than they had 1 year ago despite spending BILLIONS on material and tens of thousands of Russian lives.

You are totally clueless.

Russia does not have to 'win' this war. Ukraine does.

And Ukraine failed to do so. And because of that, it is toast.

Period.

All the bullshit non-points you mention are just that when brought up against the aforementioned reality.

AmericanKulak says

That being said, Russia is clearly NOT a threat because of their complete shit performance in Ukraine. By sheer weight of men and materiale they should have been in Kiev at a week, tops.

Why? Because YOU say so?

Russia isn't fighting a war for territory. Not in this phase. It got what it wanted as far as territory goes and can hold it indefinitely.

Ukraine on the other hand can't win unless it gets its territory back. Which it won't.

All Russia has to do is keep letting the Butchers of Kyiv throw more men into the slaughter. Russian efficiency at killing Ukies being thrown up against their echelon defenses exceeds that of the Nazi death camps.

Ukraine is fucked. But you can't see that because of how YOU IMAGINE this war to be and how YOU IMAGINE it is being fought is at odds with actual reality.

Ukraine

Is

Fucked

Read & learn something:

https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/bound-to-lose

Trollhole says

Russia isn't fighting a war for territory. Not in this phase. It got what it wanted as far as territory goes and can hold it indefinitely.

I'm going to give you something that will likely annoy you, but it's friendly advice.

Don't get frustrated by people that "disagree with you", especially if they only pretend to disagree with you.

Just assume they are genuinely wrong, and explain how they are wrong. There's PLENTY of people that just pretend you are wrong, when they know you're correct. This includes assholes, propagandists (professional assholes), and trolls (assholes for fun and games). I generally assume I'm dealing with a propagandist when I suspect they know they are wrong, and still persist.

It really doesn't matter what an AMERICAN believes about this stupid fucking war, we have ZERO control over our government, and therefore ZERO control over the outcome of this war. I'd prefer it to end as soon as possible, but it won't. This is a proxy war and a shared goal of each power is to damage the other power through attrition. I don't believe people in control of US foreign policy give a shit about the health of the nation or the future of Americans at all.

Because the United States spends 10x to 100x on their shitty military weaponry, because that's extremely lucrative to the Offense Industry, I expect the United States to lose. That's not a goal of the Offense Industry. They don't care about wining, they care about profits.

You have understand what a sociopath is. It's like in a video game, do you feel badly about killing a video game character or another player? That's how they feel, they don't feel. They have as much guilt and remorse about getting a 100 babies killed as you do cracking 100 eggs.

Americans are generally entirely divorced from reality. They've never seen real war, even the MILITARY has never seen real war. They aren't seeing their wives and mothers raped and murdered, they aren't seeing their kids starve in abject poverty, their cities destroyed. Why do you think we have such violent films, and the "enemy" whoever it is, is depicted as pure evil? It's to desensitize them and it's been very successful.

Want to see a horrific war film? Watch "Come and See" by Elem Klimov. This film is subtitled, and that's for the best. It's horrific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See

Somebody, somewhere, is going through that shit right now. War is horrific.

I've never experienced war except 2nd hand. I knew people completely fucked by it. They never recovered. I knew a man whose job was to drag bodies out of Normandy beach to be buried. My great uncle photographed either Hiroshima or Nagasaki - I know he did this, but not which city. I was forbidden from asking questions. The past is dead and buried and should be, to an extent. We keep making the same mistakes.

Most people, even the people involved, have no clue. The horrific starvation we all saw in Nazi Germany in concentration camps - that's because the Allies cut off supply lines - they were slave labor camps making munitions. The Allies didn't just cut off raw materials, they cut off food. War is insane, and propaganda was quickly produced to blame the Germans for this, when we were responsible, but it had to be done. It's ruthless.

My objection to the Ukraine war, is it's not necessary. I'm suspecting at this point neither WWI or WWII were necessary so I'm looking for who is causing this shit, and it might very well be our banking industry. They profit enormously over the destruction.

richwicks says

Russia isn't interested in keeping every inch of territory. The more territory they have, the more they have to defend. They are primarily interested in destroying the Ukrainian military. They may repeatedly take, and give up land in order to do that.

And Ukraine is now one of the heaviest armed, motivated and most experienced militaries in Europe launching near daily drone attacks deep inside Russia including Moscow.

Even Russian propagandists on RT and the Prigozhin admitted that Russia's main goal of demilitarizing the Ukrainian "Nazees" was a total failure to this point.

But keep moving those goal posts!