patrick.net

richwicks says

A Zionist is nothing more than a Jewish supremacist.

Nationalist. I could claim that the Irish, the vast majority of whom already spoke English natively, were just being Celtic Supremacists by demanding they be out of the UK despite British rule for many centuries beforehand.

Palestinians are just Arab Supremacists. They were fine as part of a greater Caliphate, which is what the Grand Mufti of Jersualem first wanted from the ashes of the Ottomans. And they were fine under Egyptians (gaza) or Jordan (Judea/Samaria aka the neologism "West Bank"). They had no desire to be independent so long as they had fellow Arab rule. No Intifadas against King Hussein or Nassr's illegal annexations, as they were fellow Arabs.

Given the history of the Middle East, Jews would be morons to have to struggle like Kurds, Druze, Armenians, etc. to be a minority under Arab Supremacy.

socal2 says

richwicks says

Ukraine wouldn't be at war if they didn't elect a Zionist traitor. How many Ukrainians want this stupid war?

I'd wager far more Ukrainians are willing to fight and defend their country from Putin's "stupid war" than there are Russians willing to drop everything and go get killed or grievously maimed trying to grab land from their next door neighbor.

Maybe, I don't know.

Ever heard of the "Just War" theory?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria

This war fails on competent authority, probability of success and last resort. This could have simply been avoided by implementing the Minsk Accords, at least according to Putin, who MIGHT have been lying. That's possible, but if it was lying, and there would have been war anyhow, what harm was there in ending their civil war?

AmericanKulak says

And the Palestinians are Arab Supremacists.

Maybe, I don't know.

AmericanKulak says

They were fine as part of a greater Caliphate, which is what the Grand Mufti of Jersualem first wanted. And they were fine under Egyptians (gaza) or Jordan (Judea/Samaria aka the neologism "West Bank"). They had no desire to be independent so long as they had fellow Arab rule.

Palestinians are not well accepted in the rest of the Arab world, that's part of their dilemma. Those that could leave decades ago, did. What we see today are the fanatics who are willing to fight a lost cause, and those that simply cannot escape. They're fucked.

In time, I expect Israel to complete take over the West Bank. What happens to the Palestinians there I don't know. Killed, put onto reservations, just driven out, I don't know. When they're done with that, I expect Gaza to be retaken.

Israel says, officially, they want a "two state solution" TO THE WEST. In Israel they say there will never be a two state solution, and that's the truth. If Israel wanted a two state solution, they could have one tomorrow. They could simply declare their borders, and whatever is left, that's "Palestine". They don't need to negotiate, they have the military might to do it right now. They've had this ability for decades.

richwicks says

Poland was a vassal state of the USSR for almost 50 years.

Yes, the part of Poland that was not outright annexed by the USSR. And before that, Poland was an independent country only between WW1 and WW2. Prior to WW1, "Poland" was completely engulfed by the German and Russian empires.

richwicks says

The KKK is complex too, just as Zionism is. The KKK started as a lose confederation in the south to protect people from carpetbaggers from the North that raided plantations and stole property. They started out as being a militia group against bands of thugs from the North and over time, the only thing that remained of them, was the ugliness of their movement. Now, they're just FIB. The KKK no longer exists, and really, good riddance.

The KKK in the North also tried to stop the Boss System, where Democrats used minorities, to pack corrupt City Governments and rewarded loyal mostly Catholic Immigrant (First Irish, Later Italian) supporters with big jobs. That's why Frank Trump was a member, a Protestant trying to remove Catholic-Democrat Tammany influence in the city and not having to pay the machine.

There were Orange and Green Riots in Manhattan in the 19th Century.

HeadSet says

Yes, the part of Poland that was not outright annexed by the USSR. And before that, Poland was an independent country only between WW1 and WW2. Prior to WW1, "Poland" was completely engulfed by the German and Russian empires.

The first Partition, Russia was invited to take a slice after Prussia drew up plans with Austria/Hapsburgs to carve up Poland, esp. Silesia. EDIT: This was to prevent Russia from intervening on behalf of Poland.

Silesia was the river mouths where Polish Rivers drained, and gave the Prussians control over tariffs and trade to the sea from most of Poland.

The third, the Russians split Poland three ways between themselves, the Austrians, and the Prussians.

AmericanKulak says

The KKK in the North also tried to stop the Boss System, where Democrats used minorities, to pack corrupt City Governments and rewarded loyal mostly Catholic Immigrant (First Irish, Later Italian) supporters with big jobs. That's why Frank Trump was a member, a Protestant trying to remove Catholic-Democrat Tammany influence in the city and not having to pay the machine.

I'm entirely ignorant about this part of the history of the KKK. I'll have to do some reading. I know the general beginning of the KKK and the ultimate demise of it, but not the middle parts of it.

Groups change. For example, I respect the 1950's liberals. By the 1960's they started to go corrupt, by the 70's even more so. All the nonsense and scaremongering on overpopulation, energy resources and so on MIGHT have been honest errors (in many cases probably not) but today, liberal is a dirty word.

richwicks says

Palestinians are not well accepted in the rest of the Arab world, that's part of their dilemma. Those that could leave decades ago, did. What we see today are the fanatics who are willing to fight a lost cause, and those that simply cannot escape. They're fucked.

In time, I expect Israel to complete take over the West Bank. What happens to the Palestinians there I don't know. Killed, put onto reservations, just driven out, I don't know. When they're done with that, I expect Gaza to be retaken.

Palestinians are basically done for, the reason they are not liked is:

1. Attempt to take over Jordan (Black September)
2. Celebrated Saddam, who was a threat to Kuwait and later Saudi Arabia. Palestinians who lived in Kuwait welcomed Saddam's Army with open arms and cheering.
3. Participated in the Iranian Revolution (various factions love or hate them there, not sure of the exact details)
4. Helped kick off the Lebanese Civil War (when they were exiled by King Hussein after Black September)
5. Are general Schnorrers (Give us Monies! We fight the Zios! Good Arabs give fellow Arabstinians monies!)
7. Rich Palestinians are a nuisance in the Gulf (Why are you living in a penthouse on your water bottle wealth, not fixing the water treatment plant in Gaza, or not back in Ramallah attacking Zionists?)
8. Famous for Terrorism, which smears all Arabs.
9. Most Palestinians are firm Socialists.
10. Most Palestinians are quite Secular - too much for more traditional or moderate Arabs.

richwicks says

Israel says, officially, they want a "two state solution" TO THE WEST. In Israel they say there will never be a two state solution, and that's the truth. If Israel wanted a two state solution, they could have one tomorrow. They could simply declare their borders, and whatever is left, that's "Palestine". They don't need to negotiate, they have the military might to do it right now. They've had this ability for decades.

A two-state was hoped for, but it concessions don't stop the terror. It's a long game to reconquest Samaria and Judea while giving the UN and Euro Leftists a headpat for a time.

Gulf Arabs have been long ready to make peace and friendship with Israel.

AmericanKulak says

Palestinians are basically done for, the reason they are not liked is:

1. Attempt to take over Jordan (Black September)
2. Celebrated Saddam, who was a threat to Kuwait and later Saudi Arabia.
3. Participated in the Iranian Revolution (various factions love or hate them there, not sure of the exact details)
4. Helped kick off the Lebanese Civil War (when they were exiled by King Hussein after Black September)
5. Are general Schnorrers (Give us Monies! We fight the Zios! Good Arabs give fellow Arabstinians monies!)
7. Rich Palestinians are a nuisance in the Gulf (Why are you living in a penthouse on your water bottle wealth, not fixing the water treatment plant in Gaza, or not back in Ramallah attacking Zionists?)
8. Famous for Terrorism, which smears all Arabs.
9. Most Palestinians are firm Socialists.
10. Most Palestinians are quite Secular - too much for more traditional or moderate Arabs.

The Palestinians were NEVER liked. That's why there were 1/2 million Palestinian refugees by 1950, and the rest of the Arab world didn't do anything about it. Nobody cares.

The only thing I appreciate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict today is that it opened up my eyes to the gross hypocrisy and dishonesty of the United States. When I was 20, and FAR stupider than I am now, I actually believed the US had principles. Ohhh, to be naive again. I do resent being systematically propagandized for 20 years, and the next 10 years sucked as I spent that time trying to figure out if ANYTHING in "news" was unbiased or truthful. Then it was another 10 years feeling I might be nuts because I could see our media as complete propaganda but hardly anybody else around me could, and even when I did find the rarity, I suspected they were just humoring me.

I'm really grateful for Trump, he put all my doubts to rest. Having the corporate press lie so blatantly for 4 years, finally vindication. Only took me to 45, and now I feel stupid for EVER believing that what a corporate propaganda system told me was true in order to sell tampons, deodorant, and cough medicines.

I know people older than me though, better educated than me, SMARTER than me, who still think Fox or CNN, or The Economist, or whatever, is "a good news source". Maybe I shouldn't feel so suckered and stupid but I really wish I knew this 30 years ago. Wish I had a mentor and didn't have to figure this out myself.

richwicks says

The only thing I appreciate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict today is that it opened up my eyes to the gross hypocrisy and dishonesty of the United States. When I was 20, and FAR stupider than I am now, I actually believed the US had principles. Ohhh, to be naive again. I do resent being systematically propagandized for 20 years, and the next 10 years sucked as I spent that time trying to figure out if ANYTHING in "news" was unbiased or truthful. Then it was another 10 years feeling I might be nuts because I could see our media as complete propaganda but hardly anybody else around me could, and even when I did find the rarity, I suspected they were just humoring me.

There was no US-Israeli close relationship until after 1967, when it became clear that the Soviet Union was dumping huge amounts of war material to the Syrians and Egyptians.

Israeli and Soviet pilots got into dogfights during the Secret War:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noXPLL7pyfU

Interestingly, the Soviet pilots got their asses handed to them just like the Arabs had it, much to their chagrin - the Soviet Pilots insisted the Arab Pilots weren't following their Soviet sponsored training.

A Cold War conspiracy theory was "The Jews are all in league with the USSR"

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Zionism is ancient, and that's more complex than I currently understand, but I do fully understand it's current incarnation. At the top levels, it's basically a mafia. They hire only within their ingroup which is why you don't see any anti-Zionist Jews in power in government, or even industry.

It's a nationalist movement.

Yes, for Israel.

Zionists represent the interests of Israel first, doesn't matter if they are in Ukraine, the United States, Canada, New Zealand, France, that's irrelevant. They get support from Israel and other Zionists, and if (when) they attain power or financial success, they in turn send money back to Israel.

Look, I'm not complaining about it, and I'm not bitter about it, but it irritates me to no end that people deny it. It's right in front of your face. If Americans are too stupid to recognize what is going on, well, fuck 'em.

AmericanKulak says

A Cold War conspiracy theory was "The Jews are all in league with the USSR"

Well Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were. They were executed on June 19th. Happy Juneteenth day, because they WERE guilty. KGB archives from after the collapse of the USSR proves it, but this didn't stop their kids from still championing their (fake) innocence.

Karl Marx was Jewish, and he is the one that created the whole concept of communism. It was claimed for a long time that the USSR was run by Jews almost exclusively in the early days and if you are to believe Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in "200 years together" this is true, IF you are to believe him. Many people make this claim, I don't care if it's true or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Hundred_Years_Together

The book hasn't been fully translated to English (yet) but it will be. I'll perhaps read it then.

I think we are shortly going to phase orange.

richwicks says

Well Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were. They were executed on June 19th. Happy Juneteenth day, because they WERE guilty. KGB archives from after the collapse of the USSR proves it, but this didn't stop their kids from still championing their (fake) innocence.

Yep, by a Jewish Judge named Kaufman with a Jewish dominated Prosecution with the Chief Assistant, Roy Cohn, the most famous - who later became a Trump's tutor in handling NYC Politics and general PR.

The ringleader of the mostly East Coast Soviet Spy ring, who recruited Rosenburg, Gold, Greenglass, Alfred Dean Slack, and many others was a German Lutheran Pastor's Son named Klaus Fuchs, a mathematician. That discovery of Fuchs by MI5, which led investigators to Gold who broke down, led to a whole bag of Soviet Spies, including the Rosenbergs. Also, if anything Ethel Rosenberg was at least as active as Julius. The myth of her dindu nothing is laughable.

The Manhattan East Side shits never forgave Cohn for being "McCarthy's Lapdog", and there's definitely a chain of relationship between Trump, Guiliani, and Cohn in the Great Leftist Hate Machine.

richwicks says

Karl Marx was Jewish

Karl Marx was NOT Jewish by religion. Heinrich Marx, Karl's father, converted to Lutheranism and was a noted classical liberal and Prussian Patriot, and his entire family - including all his children along with Karl - were baptized in the Church.

He was very irritated at his son Karl's prolifigacy, bad grades, ungratefulness, dislike of commerce and industry, disrespect, and irrascibility at University and later in London and eventually cut him off. It was up to Engles, a literal Anglo-Saxon (half English, half German) industrialist to then support Karl Marx. Engles would go on to complete, edit, and publish Das Kapital from Marx' mostly disjointed notes at his own expense.

Karl Marx had a life long distate for Judaism, culminating in his infamous "On the Jewish Question". Then again, Marxists dislike all actual religious believers.

cisTits says

cisTits says

Finland is a Nazi state like Ukraine:

https://www.dw.com/en/finlands-air-force-removes-the-swastika-from-logo-after-almost-a-century/a-54020470

It's just run by a quisling traitor. They have no stake in this stupid war, but their traitor Sanna Marin was purchased by our government. She's a whore who has betrayed the entire country, although I don't think most of them realize it yet.

Finland has no stake in this stupid war.

richwicks says

Sanna Marin

She's gone!

Defeated by Finnish Populists/Conservative coalition just the other day:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65157357

cisTits says

Bakhmut has already all but fallen. Tens of thousands of Ukeys were thrown into that meat grinder for nothing.

All wars are for nothing other than banking interests. All wars do is kill our strongest men, it's suicidal to every nation.

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Karl Marx was Jewish

Karl Marx was NOT Jewish by religion.

It is a racial group, not a religious group. Karl Marx was just simply a racial bigot.

richwicks says

It is a racial group, not a religious group. Karl Marx was just simply a racial bigot.

Karl Marx didn't like Jews, period, the religious or secular kind.

richwicks says

All wars do is kill our strongest men, it's suicidal to every nation.

This X's 10. It's the reason we're sending weapons to Ukraine. We don't actually care about either Russia or Ukraine. I think the goal is to neuter that part of the globe for generations.

As long as Western Europe can keep their shit together this war could stabilize that entire part of the globe for 50 years. If China and Taiwan issue calms itself, we should have a long period of peace outside of a US war hawk looking to stir the shit, which is probable.

AmericanKulak says

Karl Marx didn't like Jews, period,

Karl Marx was Jewish.

WookieMan says

As long as Western Europe can keep their shit together this war could stabilize that entire part of the globe for 50 years. If China and Taiwan issue calms itself,

It would be stable right now and for the next 50 years if we just got rid of our state department

All the US does is destabilize places, including the US. Our government sucks.

richwicks says

All the US does is destabilize places, including the US. Our government sucks.

Where did I dispute that? That is the point of what we're doing over there. Never said I liked it. I'm telling you the strategy and reasoning. The US wants less Russian men alive and they're succeeding by proxy by killing a bunch of corrupt Ukrainians and Russians.

If Russia has no young men to run industry or fight, they're fucked. This isn't complex. We haven't put a US soldier at the front line so who gives a shit? Money could have been better spent is the only thing. Russians can't even run their own infrastructure without Western assistance. We need Elon Musk to send Cosmonauts to the space station at this point and other engineers to run their oil and gas fields.

Russian young men dying stabilizes the globe. Instead of WTF or complaining about the US, prove me wrong... It's been almost a decade since we started shit with American troops. So it's a money issue at this point. And if we didn't do stuff like this, others would to us. Remember Trump dropped the largest non-nuclear bomb (MOAB) in Afghanistan. It wasn't necessary because we didn't need to be there yet he still kept it going.

I suppose if you want Russian troops in Omaha Nebraska with tanks and planes call me stupid then. Because that's what happens when you live in the place with the most resources and infrastructure on the planet. Apparently you guys don't get out of CA much or the country.

WookieMan says

Where did I dispute that? That is the point of what we're doing over there. Never said I liked it. I'm telling you the strategy and reasoning

I think the reasoning is incorrect. The US purposely destabilizes places because it's easier to steal in a warzone than in a working society.

WookieMan says

We need Elon Musk to send Cosmonauts to the space station at this point and other engineers to run their oil and gas fields.

I don't know if this is true.

WookieMan says

And if we didn't do stuff like this, others would to us

I doubt this. Why? We made a shitload of enemies over the last 20 years.

WookieMan says

Remember Trump dropped the largest non-nuclear bomb (MOAB) in Afghanistan. It wasn't necessary because we didn't need to be there yet he still kept it going.

That was a PR move. Geraldo Rivera practically blew a load in his pants when that was done.

WookieMan says

I suppose if you want Russian troops in Omaha Nebraska with tanks and planes call me stupid then.

There is no threat of Russian troops entering the United States.

The US screams in pain as they beat others. Russia isn't the problem, our government is the problem.

cisTits says

WookieMan says

I suppose if you want Russian troops in Omaha Nebraska with tanks and planes call me stupid then

WTF 2.0

Your gaslighting is getting just plain sloppy now.

This is cute. Iwog 2.0. Make an intelligent comment and maybe people would take you seriously. Tit photos don't count. I'm sorry you need to resort to porn and nudes to get your flaccid cock hard instead of a chick. Enjoy your cheesy, shit nudes all you want. Clearly can't get the real deal yourself.

cisTits says

https://patrick.net/post/1379041/2023-04-10-leaked-ukraine-war-docs-make-ukey-nazi

I'd be cautious with this. Glenn Greenwald believes this is a limited hangout, and they may be falsified anyhow.

The video begins at about 7:27


original link

Don't just assume he's correct, but his pointing out a group of warning signs about them. It may be a "leak" that's still underplaying the calamity and trying to assign blame for the failure of Ukraine which is (in my opinion) inevitable.

In my experience real links are accompanied by denials by the corporate media. This leak isn't being contested all over the place.

I still believe this war will go on until at least 2024. The Deep State can't have a loss when whatever puppet they run for the president is up for election. If Trump is not allowed to run, or if he "loses" the nomination, for whatever reason, it could end in 2024.

cisTits says

richwicks says

It may be a "leak" that's still underplaying the calamity and trying to assign blame for the failure of Ukraine which is (in my opinion) inevitable.

Oh definitely. Doesn't mean they are false, tho.

At the end of this, the number of dead and causalities on the Ukrainian side I expect to be VASTLY underestimated. I don't think Ukraine has a military anymore to speak of, I think most of them are dead, and they will soon be replaced by EU mercenaries, and THEY will die.

When this comes out, after YEARS of war, it won't be reported upon in our "corporate news", and nobody will care when they hear it from the tinfoil hat brigade of which I'm a part. I think by the point, there will be a legitimate excuse, we'll have other problems to worry about and it won't be about not being able to pay for Monday Night Football or that Fags on a Can are being put on pisswater beer. We'll have real problems then. You're not going to be worried about transtime story hour, you're not going to care about liberals "transitioning" their kids, you're going to be worried about fundamental things.

And I'm going to be happy, because finally, you're going to have to be worried about your sociopathic criminal murderous government, because their sights will be on you. That's if, I'm still alive. We've been warning for decades "this is a fucking danger", but no, we're paranoid, so we have the patriot act, and a surveillance state, because all is well - you make enough money, you have a comfortable house, who gives a shit?

richwicks says

At the end of this, the number of dead and causalities on the Ukrainian side I expect to be VASTLY underestimated. I don't think Ukraine has a military anymore to speak of, I think most of them are dead, and they will soon be replaced by EU mercenaries, and THEY will die.

Both sides are under estimating their casualties. Both are fucked for at least a generation. This conflict has been going on for almost a decade already. It's just now Russia officially put their troops to the front lines for the last year. This was going on when Trump was in office. He didn't do what Obama did, but he didn't stop the conflict either, not that he could. It just escalated under Biden because he's an idiot and likely profiting off this personally somehow.

Russia has had access to Crimea for almost a decade now, so that point is bull shit. There was no point in this fight. This is a stupid ethnic battle over land that will ALWAYS happen on bordering nations with Russia.

And why do you think Russia is trying to align with China. They're fucking scared. The red box on the image hasn't been fully explored for oil in gas in a meaningful way. While Russia is busy with Ukraine the Chinese could, and I argue should easily take land that has oil and gas and is a close distance to be piped in to China and they control it. Not Russia. China could throw 10M men with simple rifles and take and hold most of eastern Russia to the Bering Straits.

I give no shits about Ukraine. The money pisses me off but at least it's not people I know that are sent over there dying. Russia is in a shit position so they're licking Chinese cock to sell oil and gas AND not have them just take their land which they easily could do. Geographically it would put them in a better position to attack the US and house 1.5B people even though it's cold. Everyone is hung up on Taiwan. If the Chinese are smart they'd be amassing troops to the Southeast of Russia for a summer assault. Very, very few people live in that region. It would be easy.

The Europeans are NOT freezing and never were. That has been a media lie to pump up Ukraine support. They're getting gas and will get more.... https://carnegieendowment.org/publications/interactive/russia-oil-map/

If people cannot see what all this is about they're retarded. WE are winning the war whether it is corrupt or not. This isn't about a Russia and Ukrainian fight. Nordstream is down. We sell gas and oil. Russia is losing men that can operate their system when sober. China wants gas and oil and at some point will just take it. This has been playing out for decades. 90% of Russias land is shit outside of resources that they extract at an extremely inefficient way, drunk. Ukraine is toast, but Russia likely collapses and that's when it gets scary with nukes.

I HATE Biden and our government, but strategically what we're doing makes sense AND it's not costing US lives. And yes people are making out like bandits stateside. Contractors, MIC and other businesses. Biden has failed though in not pushing China to go after Russia. That's where Trump may have succeeded. Change the focus to Russia and start another proxy war with China and Russia. Taiwan issue goes away and China doesn't know what to do with it anyway. We get our iPhones. China get gas and oil that they control. This is the long game of this conflict. Doesn't matter if it's corrupt. It burns other nations resources and people and we become more powerful. The concern is how WE use that power.

Are we still waiting on the big Russian offensive this winter after they made a huge deal about their mobilization - or is what we are seeing in Bakhmut the extent of it?

Western media is pumping up a big Ukrainian counteroffensive sometime in the next few weeks as thousands of Ukrainians have finished their training in Western Europe along with the arrival of Western tanks and other armored vehicles. Russian media is also making a big deal about a possible Ukrainian counteroffensive interviewing Russian and Wagners on the front line setting up defensive positions.

I think we will all have a bit more clarity on which way this thing will go in the coming weeks and months.

Scenario 1: Ukraine loses Scenario 2: Ukraine loses Scenario 3: Ukraine loses Scenario 4: Ukraine loses and is partitioned amongst all those countries whose territories were annexed into Ukraine in WWII Scenario 5. Ukraine is nuked, who cares about losing, possibly by us, to hide the evidences of Western systemic criminal enterprises there..

If you want to see how Ukraine is winning, and Russia, Russia, Russia is running away like a scalded dog, watch CNN. It's so nice to live in a time when so many creative liars will give us the false reality we prefer.

Ceffer says

If you want to see how Ukraine is winning, and Russia, Russia, Russia is running away like a scalded dog, watch CNN.

I just have to look at the battle maps to KNOW that Russia is not achieving their stated goals from over a year ago. Russia lost half their territory gains months ago and have been stuck in a grinding standstill in Eastern Ukraine since November.

Does anyone deny that battle lines have been largely stagnant since Ukraine recaptured all the land around Kherson and Kharkiv last Fall? I watch alot of Russian propaganda shows and they show the same battle maps that I am seeing from Western sources.

I am not going to pretend or predict that Ukraine is going to be able drive every Russian troop off their land. We will know more in the coming weeks if Ukraine attempts a counteroffensive and if it is successful. I do think Ukraine has enough men and Western support to hold off Russia indefinitely as it takes less troops to defend land than to conquer. How many troops does Russia have for the harder mission of occupation if they ever consolidate their hold on Ukrainian territory?

socal2 says

I just have to look at the battle maps to KNOW that Russia is not achieving their stated goals from over a year ago.

What are Russia's stated goals?

richwicks says

What are Russia's stated goals?

The goal as stated by Putin several times was to "Denazify and demilitarize Ukraine" and to prevent future encroachment of NATO on Russian borders.

Hence the reason why Putin sent thousands of troops to topple the national government in Kiev (who controls the military and apparently all the "Nazees") early on in the invasion.

Kiev is still standing, Ukraine has recaptured much of the land lost to Russia in the early months of the war and Russia now has a brand new NATO member (Finland) on their border.

Again, I am not pretending this war is over or that Russia can't recover. All I am saying that "right now" Russia is not achieving their stated military and geopolitical goals.

socal2 says

richwicks says

What are Russia's stated goals?

The goal as stated by Putin several times was to "Denazify and demilitarize Ukraine" and to prevent future encroachment of NATO on Russian borders.

Do the stated goals matter? Can we not observe and infer what Mr Putin's objectives are?


Fielding quick-fire questions from supporters in Russia’s European exclave of Kaliningrad, Putin was asked what Russian historical event he would like to change.

“The collapse of the Soviet Union,” Putin immediately shot back.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-putin-idUSKCN1GE2TF

The 'recaptured' land was a shooting gallery flatlands that Russia ceded back rather than defend while pointlessly losing soldiers. It's not proof of anything other than a killing field of whoever occupies it at the present. It's amazing that they keep citing this as evidence of failure.

The Russians rain rockets on it to kill more Ukrainian sitting ducks. They can mop it up later after they finish disposing of what's left of the Ukrainian army and its ragged conscripts and grinding up all those weapons that haven't wound up on the black markets.

socal2 says

richwicks says

What are Russia's stated goals?

The goal as stated by Putin several times was to "Denazify and demilitarize Ukraine" and to prevent future encroachment of NATO on Russian borders.

Oh, those goals will be attained.

Ukraine is going to be destroyed.

The real goal of Russia is to weaken NATO and the United States.

The goal of the United States is money laundering and feeding the MIC, and also preventing Russia from exporting energy to Europe so that the US can control Europe through energy imports. They are also trying to restart the Cold War, which you could argue has already been achieved.

socal2 says

Kiev is still standing, Ukraine has recaptured much of the land lost to Russia in the early months of the war and Russia now has a brand new NATO member (Finland) on their border.

This doesn't matter. Russia will just retake it. Their aim is destroying the military, not taking land. The entire Ukrainian military will be wiped out in the end. They don't have an airforce, that alone makes them fucked.

socal2 says

Again, I am not pretending this war is over or that Russia can't recover. All I am saying that "right now" Russia is not achieving their stated military and geopolitical goals.

Of course not. This is a long term proxy war between Russia and the United States. It will take YEARS and both will achieve their objectives - well, the US won't, they're not going to significantly weaken Russia, but Europe will be weakened, but I think the US wants that.

Ceffer says

The 'recaptured' land was a shooting gallery flatlands that Russia ceded back rather than defend while pointlessly losing soldiers.

Then why did Russia waste thousands of lives and massive amount of material to take this land in the first place if they were just going to give abandon it?

Ceffer says

The Russians rain rockets on it to kill more Ukrainian sitting ducks. They can mop it up later after they finish disposing of what's left of the Ukrainian army and its ragged conscripts and grinding up all those weapons that haven't wound up on the black markets.

Yes - we know. Russia has been doing this from the start. Yet they possess less land in Ukraine today then they did a year ago despite massive loss of life.

BTW - how many more "seasoned" and well trained troops does Russia have left to throw into the Ukrainian meat grinder? They lost alot of experienced troops in the initial push to take Kiev. Russia already had to plumb the depths of the well by using convicts, Wagner, Chechans, Syrians, and Iranians. Got to believe new conscripts in Ukraine will be better motivated, trained and equipped then the new conscripts Russia is pulling from their far flung ethnic provinces to fight an increasingly unpopular war.

socal2 says

Ceffer says

The 'recaptured' land was a shooting gallery flatlands that Russia ceded back rather than defend while pointlessly losing soldiers.

Then why did Russia waste thousands of lives and massive amount of material to take this land in the first place if they were just going to give abandon it?

To kill Ukrainian soldiers. They are destroying the Ukrainian military.

We do not know, and don't pretend we do know, how many Russians were killed in these efforts. We don't know. Our government has been lying for decades about every war. This is no different.

Once the Ukrainian military is gone, it's pretty easy to retake land, especially in Eastern Ukraine which have been bombed and attacked since 2014.

socal2 says

Ceffer says

The Russians rain rockets on it to kill more Ukrainian sitting ducks. They can mop it up later after they finish disposing of what's left of the Ukrainian army and its ragged conscripts and grinding up all those weapons that haven't wound up on the black markets.

Yes - we know. Russia has been doing this from the start. Yet they possess less land in Ukraine today then they did a year ago despite massive loss of life.

BTW - how many more "seasoned" and well trained troops does Russia have left to throw into the Ukrainian meat grinder? They lost alot of experienced troops in the initial push to take Kiev. Russia already had to plumb the depths of the well by using convicts, Wagner, Chechans, Syrians, and Iranians. Got to believe new conscripts in Ukraine will be better motivated, trained and equipped then the new conscripts Russia is pulling from their far flung ethnic provinces to fight an increasingly unpopular war.

You don't know. Our government lies. You know this. There was just a limited hangout release of supposedly "secret documents", this is to ease the public into accepting part of the reality.

Our government is lying.

There's certainly Russian troops being killed, no doubt. But Ukraine is a smaller country, and they have less people. If it was a 1:1 kill ratio, Ukraine would STILL lose, and it's at least 4:1 - according to the "secret documents". Once all the Ukrainian military is wiped out, it's either NATO actually goes to war with Russia (unlikely) or it's going to be a mercenary effort.

There's no air support for Ukraine, because NATO or the United States would have to do that, and that's WWIII. Nobody is going to win that.

Ukraine is on a suicide mission, just the Ukrainians don't know that's the course their traitor president Zelensky and his immediate handler, Ihor Kolomoyskyi has set them on. The only question about the end of this stupid conflict, is how many people pointlessly die?