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I Have Some Bad News About the Economy


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2022 Oct 15, 5:36am   24,264 views  465 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   ignore (2)  

https://www.hennessysview.com/p/i-have-some-bad-news-about-the-economy?publication_id=572577&post_id=78488561&isFreemail=true


Accounts are widely out of balance

How bad, you might be asking yourself, will the economy get? We’re about to find out.




The orange line is US wealth. The blue line is US GDP. The gap is the amount of wealth American households and non-profits must surrender. You see, these two lines must move in lockstep. They do over time. When they get out of sync, something will put them back into sync.

The gap is debt.

Accounts must be settled. It’s called “a reckoning.” And the reckoning is here knocking on the door.

To put this gap into historical perspective, here’s an extended view of the same data with Dr. Hunt’s markups.




From 1951 to about 1997—the year the Monica Lewinsky story broke and Howe and Strauss published The Fourth Turning—the two lines moved in lockstep. Then Alan Greenspan decided to tinker, to grow wealth without growing GDP and without kicking off inflation. ...

What that gap represents is one of two things:

Money stolen from other people (other economies).

Money stolen from future generations of Americans.

How We Borrow from the Future
A few years ago, in the 1990s, we heard a lot of stories parents going to jail for identify theft perpetrated against their own children. About 1990, the government required babies to have a Social Security Number before they left the hospital. (I remember because it happened between our second and third children.)

Some shiftless parents soon realized they could apply for credit using their kids’ SSNs. They could default, and the creditor could do nothing. You can’t collect from a six-week-old infant.

This, of course, constituted credit fraud, so the parents who did this (and there were many) went to jail. (Not sure what happened to their kids who were left with no parents and lousy FICO score, but that’s not the point.)

The point is, all of us have been doing what those parents do only legally. The government allows us to run up our kids’ and grand kids’ debt as long as we do it with the government’s approved identity-theft programs.

So we did.

If you look at that chart, about 1/3 of our household and non-profit wealth is stolen from other generations or other countries. And we have to pay it back. Now. Or soon. ...

How We Borrow from the World
Some months ago, I wrote a series of posts about the US dollar (USD) as the world’s reserve currency and the petrodollar. (Here and here.) To summarize, almost all international debt is settled with USD regardless of the two local currencies involved. Britain settles its debts with Costa Rica in USD, etc. This includes the oil markets. Saudi Arabia, in turn, buys US treasuries (national debt) as a store of value for its copious oil profits. This allows the US run up massive debt knowing there’s always a market for our bonds.

Until there’s not.

Have you notice that Saudi Arbia is drifting out of the US orbit?

I wrote it about in those earlier posts, but the most certain sign of the Kingdom’s pending divorce with from Uncle Sam happened this week. Saudi Arabia disclosed that Joe Biden tried to strong-arm the Saudis into delaying OPEC+ oil production cuts until after the November elections. In diplomatic worlds, this was a slap in the face insult to the US and, particularly, to the Biden regime.

Rumors say Biden threatened to cut military sales to the Saudis if the OPEC+ cuts were announced before the elections. Not only did OPEC+ announce the cuts on its timetable, the Kingdom told the world about Biden’s threat (without disclosing the exact terms or names). Among “partners,” such public humiliation is a sign of pending breakup.

In return, the State Department and Joe Biden announced they would reevaluate the US’s strategic arrangements with Saudi Arabia after the election. That should be interesting.

What it means is that the US might not have as eager a buyer for debt as we’ve grown accustomed to. And that means the price of US treasuries will decline. Less demand means lower prices. When the price of bond goes down, the interest goes up. ...

I’m not saying the Saudis are about to stop taking our checks—I’m saying the for the first time since the Nixon administration, they’re acting like they might. Which means the are going to demand a bigger discount—the difference between the face value of the bond and sale price. That discount is the interest, and the bigger the discount, the less cash we have to spend tomorrow.

That’s one way to close that gap. You reduce the amount of cash you get in return for a future promise to pay. The amount you owe stays the same, but the amount you get now gets smaller.

How Our Kids Get Their Money Back
Remember the two ways we built that gap between wealth and GDP? That’s the first way. The holder of US treasuries want to cash their bonds, and they don’t want to buy new ones.

The gap begins to shrink, and that shrinking is mostly in household wealth.

The second way is intergenerational theft. So how do our kids and grandkids force their accounts settled?

Have you heard about the labor participation rate? Have you heard about the labor shortage?

An odd thing about the jobs numbers in recent months. While the number of “new jobs,” also known as “new hires,” has been strong, the number of people working has been going down, down, down. Why is that? ...

The kids aren’t taking our post-dated checks, either. They’re simply not participating in the US economy—at least, not in the official US economy. They siphoning of that excess household wealth NOW, in the present. They are not working in ways that grows the blue line (GDP). They’re shrinking the gap by lowering the orange line (wealth).

Wonder where inflation is coming from? We’re spending the excess household wealth without increasing the products and services available to buy with it. Inflation is how future generations close that gap. They spend your excess wealth without producing. And it’s happening right before our eyes. ...

In truth, we will only lose our ill-gotten gains.

While, we didn’t personally rob from the kids and foreigners, we were participants in a rigged game—a game that’s getting unrigged in a hurry. We enjoyed the spoils of the petrodollar and zero interest rates.

This account-settling process is called a reckoning, which sound harsh because it is.

https://www.epsilontheory.com/hollow-men-hollow-markets-hollow-world-2/

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422   SunnyvaleCA   2025 Jun 12, 8:59am  

MolotovCocktail says

WookieMan says


Illegals are a non-factor. Small used car dealers will sell to anyone with a pulse. They don't care about legal status because they can repo the car the minute you miss a 25% interest payment and still walk out ahead. That's the game.


Not if the car is south of the border.

These cars are likely parked in places where parts will be stripped overnight, resulting in the car losing a lot of value and being abandoned. It's hard to register a car that has no catalytic converter or wheels.
423   PanicanDemoralizer   2025 Jun 12, 9:11am  

"Robots are coming to take your job, so work for less and be happy!" - Big Business 1973-Today
424   AD   2025 Jun 14, 11:11am  

Food plants shutting down or downsizing operations in Democrat shitholes states

Johnsonville Shuts Down Momence, Illinois, Sausage Plant. Significant amount of production capacity from the shuttered, aging facility, will move to Wisconsin plants, where the company will create about 100 new jobs in total.

Blue Diamond Growers, a grower cooperative that represents nearly 3,000 almond growers in California, said it will wind down and close its midtown Sacramento plant.
426   RWSGFY   2025 Jun 24, 10:00pm  

AD says

Hawaii tourism industry is in recession

https://www.sfgate.com/hawaii/article/hawaii-travel-visitors-summer-decline-20383620.php


Well, they were screaming "how dare you come and swim in the ocean where Lahaina peeps were drowning fleeing the Oprah fire, how disrespectful of you", so mainlanders obliged and cut down on said swimming.
427   WookieMan   2025 Jun 25, 4:21am  

AD says

Hawaii tourism industry is in recession

Never had an urge to visit Hawaii. Will probably be the only state I don't visit. Alaska will be state 49 when I get a chance to get over there. It's mainly Californians that go out to Hawaii and there are a lot of them. Someone from New York could take a 2-3 hour flight to the Caribbean.

I could be in Puerto Rico in 3-1/2 hours for free. Time in the air means you need 2 weeks and jet lag recovery to get to Hawaii east of the Mississippi. Between flights, dining, rental car, airport parking or limo and hotel that's an easy $10k for a couple. The downturn might be more of an indication of CA's economy if you think about it.

I've also heard native Hawaiians are ass holes. I obviously haven't witnessed it, so who knows if that rumor is true. I'd take this over Hawaii though: https://www.jademountain.com/ St. Lucia. Half the flight time from where I'm at. No need to go to Hawaii and the Lesser Antilles are all like this in some way or another and you can boat or puddle jump on a plan island to island. Basically more choices.
428   AD   2025 Jul 2, 11:14pm  

.

Microsoft laying off 4% of workforce: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/layoffs-doge-tariffs-cbs-news-explains/

Job market is not doing good: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/article-14868341/job-report-worst-employment-decline-years-markets-negative.html

Biden recession has been brewing for a while, just like the Bill Clinton recession in 2001 (after the stock market crash in 2000)

.
429   WookieMan   2025 Jul 3, 9:29am  

AD says


Job market is not doing good:

I don't do economic predictions. From what I see, I'm not seeing a legit recession.

Someone will give me shit, but I look at roughly 3 things I can see in my area. Lumber, Trains and Jets at the local airport. Lumber I know they have plans to expand their lot. Freight trains are running every 20 minutes through town. $20-50M jets are at both small airports near me.

Housing crash. Trains stopped rolling through. Maybe 4 in a day. 0 jets at the airports. The lumber place shut down and closed.

I don't listen to the radio in the car. I observe. Other things like noticing gas stations with a car at every pump. We're a small town, but our restaurants are packed for every meal of the day they're open. Business are asking kids as young as 14 to work.

I'm in a lower cost of living area, so maybe life is different for others. We have cheap gas at the pumps, cheap household natural gas, cheap electric, etc. Property taxes are the biggie here. Otherwise activity economically from what I see is big right now. Honestly it was under Biden too even though he was the walking dead.

I go by what I see basically. Media needs views. Doom and gloom gets them advertising dollars. Positive news doesn't.
430   stereotomy   2025 Jul 5, 9:07am  

Blue collar is OK for now. White collar is a bloodbath. I've convinced my son to do BOCES and apprentice to be an electrician. If he wants to do more advanced training, he'll have that opportunity and $50K in the bank.
431   GNL   2025 Jul 5, 3:19pm  

What is BOCES?
433   AD   2025 Jul 5, 6:15pm  

WookieMan says

Someone will give me shit, but I look at roughly 3 things I can see in my area. Lumber, Trains and Jets at the local airport. Lumber I know they have plans to expand their lot. Freight trains are running every 20 minutes through town. $20-50M jets are at both small airports near me.


Okay I do not reluctantly raise my hand to do that job in reference to your comment "someone will give me shit".

Your part of the country is low rate commerce. So it's not like it matters if there is a slow down there because it already is slow or low rate commerce there.

And I will not use any vulgar language in regards to your state (and I don't care you live in a rural area) because you cannot distance yourself enough from your state as far as business climate, taxes, etc.

.
434   mell   2025 Jul 5, 6:29pm  

Have to agree with Wookie here, there simply is no housing crash and there is no recession. Both certainly could do better, esp. the housing market, but it's maybe a neutral to buyers market now. The job market is still ok for both blue and white collar, but with a big edge for blue collar. As Trump reverses illegal immigration and hopefully clamps down on too many H1Bs we may not reach a recession in a long while. Stock market is telling here. I def would not give up a decent job now, and take my sweet time house hunting while making lowball offers. Correction is probably a more appropriate term
435   AD   2025 Jul 5, 8:12pm  

mell says

there simply is no housing crash and there is no recession


no need for prices to crash as not enough home owners are heading for the exits as far as fire sales of their homes

this is not like 2008 with the fire sales such as because of subprime mortgages

one major factor is home owners with mortgages have rates no more than 4%

about 40% of homes are owned without mortgages

.
436   MolotovCocktail   2025 Jul 5, 9:09pm  

mell says

simply is no housing crash and there is no recession.




We shall see.
437   MolotovCocktail   2025 Jul 5, 9:11pm  

AD says

no need for prices to crash as not enough home owners are heading for the exits as far as fire sales of their homes


If houses on the markets are not selling because the sellers can't/won't lower their prices to those buyers can afford, then there is only one, inevitable outcome: a crash
438   mell   2025 Jul 5, 9:19pm  

MolotovCocktail says

AD says


no need for prices to crash as not enough home owners are heading for the exits as far as fire sales of their homes


If houses on the markets are not selling because the sellers can't/won't lower their prices to those buyers can afford, then there is only one, inevitable outcome: a crash

They are actively lowering it from what I have seen, which is what makes the prices stagnate. They come on the market with an expectation by the seller of 5% compounding interest p.a. since they bought it, and when nobody bites they start lowering them, and then they sell anywhere between 5%-20% of the original ask. But they all sell within 1-6 months except for very few.
439   PeopleUnited   2025 Jul 5, 9:27pm  

mell says

it's maybe a neutral to buyers market now.

Compared to 5 years ago it is not a buyers market. It’s actually probably more of a sellers market despite interest rates much higher than 5 years ago. Houses sell pretty quick in much neck of the woods, most of the good ones sell at or before they even have an open house. So if anything it is a Sellers, bankers and cash buyers market. The people buying on credit are really screwed right now, which is why they just keep building more and more apartments for the serfs to live in.
440   mell   2025 Jul 5, 9:35pm  

PeopleUnited says


mell says


it's maybe a neutral to buyers market now.

Compared to 5 years ago it is not a buyers market. It’s actually probably more of a sellers market despite interest rates much higher than 5 years ago. Houses sell pretty quick in much neck of the woods, most of the good ones sell at or before they even have an open house. So if anything it is a Sellers, bankers and cash buyers market. The people buying on credit are really screwed right now, which is why they just keep building more and more apartments for the serfs to live in.


In CA there have been definitely significant price reductions ongoing, after which the properties usually sell. This seems true for many states, maybe you live in a booming area which is rather the exception right now, such as TN and TX areas where tech is moving in. Still these reductions come after a usually quite high initial asking price, so it's usually a wash. Stagnant to very slightly rising prices in CA atm, with larger cities showing price declines.
441   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2025 Jul 6, 4:28am  

Dirk Lovelace is selling his Tryon, N.C., house because he now lives with his wife in South Carolina, and the costs of owning the North Carolina house have risen.

“There’s not even usually a home for sale in our neighborhood, and I think there’s three or four right now,” said Lovelace, who listed the house in April.

Lovelace cut his listing price in May, but he hasn’t gotten any offers. He thinks buyers are nervous.

After years of frustration with fast-rising prices and bidding wars, buyers now have the upper hand in many parts of the country. The inventory of homes for sale is finally rising. But buyers aren’t interested. More sellers are cutting prices or offering concessions such as paying for buyers’ closing costs.

Now, supply is rising because some sellers have experienced life events that require them to move, like a job relocation or having a baby. Others are unloading investment properties because their costs are rising, or they are worried that home prices will fall and want to sell before that happens, real-estate agents say.

https://on.wsj.com/4nuWdty

Editor’s note: Tryon is a really nice area. Nice downtown. Good hiking. Nearby waterfalls. Quite a few folks have horses. NC governor is a woke imbecile, reason enough to get out.
442   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2025 Jul 6, 4:54am  

Interesting. I live in a nice older suburb of Los Angeles with its own school district and schools that are well regarded. A 3/2 1500 sq ft home rents at $3500-5k depending on where it is and what condition it’s in with the average being in the $4-4.5k range. Same homes cost $1 million to $1.5 million.

The city also has its own police force but borders City of Los Angeles and is not immune to some urban crime issues and for a variety of reasons this is very likely to become worse. The city used to be very conservative and is slowly becoming purple with many long time city council members nearly losing their last elections as a series of “woke” challengers have emerged. One of those is pretty corrupt and very very bitter she did not get elected and basically is a 70 year old battle axe with a strong cat lady following.

Anywho, last couple years it’s been very very quiet real estate wise. Few housing sales at all, with almost none listed. This weekend, within 5 blocks in any direction, I noticed 5 homes with for sale signs. Even more interiesting…none are listed on mls! Honestly have no clue what is going on. I do wonder how much impact the most recent riots in Downtown LA played on things.
443   HeadSet   2025 Jul 6, 7:16am  

AD says

about 40% of homes are owned without mortgages

Yes, and that rate of no-mortgage homes has been steadily rising over the last decade. Only partly due to aging retirees, as about half of these paid for home are owned by people not yet at retirement age.
444   HeadSet   2025 Jul 6, 7:25am  

mell says

They are actively lowering it from what I have seen, which is what makes the prices stagnate. They come on the market with an expectation by the seller of 5% compounding interest p.a. since they bought it, and when nobody bites they start lowering them, and then they sell anywhere between 5%-20% of the original ask. But they all sell within 1-6 months except for very few.

That is the same situation as around here (coastal Virginia). I am also seeing a few bank foreclosures on upscale homes like this:



Do not let that $400k "asking price" fool you. That is a beachfront home that will fetch at least $1 million even in a foreclosure sale.
445   AD   2025 Jul 6, 10:07am  

MolotovCocktail says

AD says
no need for prices to crash as not enough home owners are heading for the exits as far as fire sales of their homes

If houses on the markets are not selling because the sellers can't/won't lower their prices to those buyers can afford, then there is only one, inevitable outcome: a crash

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Or maybe not as many sellers are going to drop their prices that much or they just take their homes off the market if it can't sell for "their minimum desired sales price" (also called the "reserve" in Ebay).

A crash such as +23% drop in price from the early 2022 all time high price level would require enough sales of desperate home sellers.

As I mentioned maybe going back to 2022, the air may slowly be let out of the housing asset balloon or bubble but its not likely to crash. It likely will drop a little over time while household income increases about 2.5% a year.
446   mell   2025 Jul 6, 10:34am  

AD says

As I mentioned maybe going back to 2022, the air may slowly be let out of the housing asset balloon or bubble but its not likely to crash. It likely will drop a little over time while household income increases about 2.5% a year.

Agreed. And inflation will work as a counterforce to dropping prices. I think on average we will see slight increases in prices p.a., like 1-5%
447   MolotovCocktail   2025 Jul 6, 10:45am  

mell says

They are actively lowering it from what I have seen


Same here. The crash is just starting.

R/E doesn't crash as fast as say, stocks do. Takes time to get rolling.
448   MolotovCocktail   2025 Jul 6, 10:47am  

HeadSet says

AD says


about 40% of homes are owned without mortgages

Yes, and that rate of no-mortgage homes has been steadily rising over the last decade. Only partly due to aging retirees, as about half of these paid for home are owned by people not yet at retirement age.


Yes. A reflection of Boomers flipping houses to other Boomers.
449   AD   2025 Jul 6, 11:26am  

Americans live in separate economic realities: Those with a job are likely to stay employed, but those without one are likely to stay unemployed.

https://www.axios.com/2025/07/06/unemployment-job-market-education-health-care

Why it matters: Welcome to the low-hire, low-fire labor market. Private-sector layoffs are at historic lows, but that masks a dreadful outlook for unemployed workers or those unhappy with their current positions.

Driving the news: The labor market surprised in June with a better-than-expected payroll gain of 147,000, the government said on Thursday.

But a whopping 85% of those job gains came in just two sectors, according to calculations by Mike Konczal, a former Biden economic official: education and health care.
Hiring in other sectors — including professional and business services, a catch-all category for white collar jobs — was little changed, the government said.
The big picture: That continues the "frozen job market" trend that has plagued the economy in recent years. The trend is being exacerbated by the rise of AI, as employers experiment with how to make their workforces more productive.

Separate data released this week showed the number of layoffs fell by 188,000 in May, hovering above multi-decade lows.
But the number of people hired into new jobs also fell by 112,000, to a rate significantly below its pre-pandemic levels.
The number of workers continuing to collect unemployment benefits is at the highest level since 2021, a sign that it is taking jobless workers longer to find a job.
What they're saying: "We're in a complex jobs market —it's not falling apart but the lack of dynamism, the lack of churn and the lack of hiring has been punctuated in the first half of the year," says ADP chief economist Nela Richardson.

"Many employers are loath to lay off workers until they see the whites of the eyes of a recession, having had such problems finding suitable workers in the first place," David Kelly, chief global strategist at J.P. Morgan Asset Management, wrote in a recent note.
The bottom line: If you look only at how many Americans are losing their jobs, this appears to be a pretty terrific labor market. If you look only at how many are being hired for new jobs, it is the weakest in years.

The question ahead is how it gets unstuck — with a pick-up in hiring, or a pick-up in layoffs.
Go deeper: It's still a no-hire/no-fire job market
450   AD   2025 Jul 6, 11:27am  

AD says


But a whopping 85% of those job gains came in just two sectors, according to calculations by Mike Konczal, a former Biden economic official: education and health care.


This is vastly funded by government money. So essentially it is "guvmint jobs".

And some wonder why here are news stories about billionaire dollar medical fraud such as with Medicaid or why Birdbrain Joe (Biden) was so generous to the education sector such as with at least $170 billion going to student loan forgiveness :-/

.
451   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2025 Jul 6, 11:50am  

HeadSet says

mell says


They are actively lowering it from what I have seen, which is what makes the prices stagnate. They come on the market with an expectation by the seller of 5% compounding interest p.a. since they bought it, and when nobody bites they start lowering them, and then they sell anywhere between 5%-20% of the original ask. But they all sell within 1-6 months except for very few.

That is the same situation as around here (coastal Virginia). I am also seeing a few bank foreclosures on upscale homes like this:



Do not let that $400k "asking price" fool you. That is a beachfront home that will fetch at least $1 million even in a foreclosure sale.

About this home
2525 Manion Dr is a 4,324 square foot house on a 0.89 acre lot with 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. - it last sold on June 14, 2002 for $759,000. Based on Redfin's Williamsburg data, we estimate the home's value is $1,329,036.
452   AD   2025 Jul 6, 1:56pm  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

About this home
2525 Manion Dr is a 4,324 square foot house on a 0.89 acre lot with 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. - it last sold on June 14, 2002 for $759,000. Based on Redfin's Williamsburg data, we estimate the home's value is $1,329,036.


only about 2.3% annual appreciation from 2002 to 2025 :-/

.
453   PeopleUnited   2025 Jul 6, 8:31pm  

mell says

price declines.

Price declines as in a majority of people selling houses for less than they paid for them?

Doubtful. But I do agree all real estate is local, so maybe coastal enclaves where prices rose higher than incomes allow, of course there will be corrections. But in many places there will be no correction, as there was no bubble. Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots.

If the prices go back to 2020 levels I will be shocked. But if interest rates don’t go back to 2020 levels even a modest correction will still not make housing more affordable. And mark my words, if interest rates do go back to 2020 levels, prices will stabilize if not rise even higher.

The only way we see housing become more affordable in the next 5 years is if people start losing jobs en masse. Of course if that happens we will see plenty of supply and cratering demand (except by investors not SFH owners).
454   AD   2025 Jul 6, 9:32pm  

PeopleUnited says

If the prices go back to 2020 levels I will be shocked. But if interest rates don’t go back to 2020 levels even a modest correction will still not make housing more affordable. And mark my words, if interest rates do go back to 2020 levels, prices will stabilize if not rise even higher.


Assumptions: peak price was around Feb 2022 with a 3% mortgage rate, household income increased about 20% since then , current mortgage rate is 7%
Rule: for every 1% increase in the 30 yr mortgage rate there should be a 10% drop in price

so home prices need to be around 72% of Feb 2022 price levels to return to January 2020 home affordability levels

((7 - 3) x 100%) x (1+20%) = 72%

There just may not be enough home owners willing to sell at that deep of a discount and the potential home sellers will "wait it out" while household income increases by about 2.5% a year.

.
455   mell   2025 Jul 6, 9:56pm  

PeopleUnited says

Price declines as in a majority of people selling houses for less than they paid for them?

Most are still getting way more than they paid for them, if they bought early enough. Some of those who bought in the past 5 years though may sell for a small loss. And flipping is pretty much dead here. Still I expect a very slow rise p.a. on average over the next 5 years, possibly accelerating should Trump's golden age kick in
456   WookieMan   2025 Jul 7, 4:18am  

mell says

Some of those who bought in the past 5 years though may sell for a small loss.

A paper loss, but likely still tax free equity they can walk with with a primary home. As in not upside down loan wise, but still paid down some principle.

I also think a lot of the larger losses will be corporate owned homes for upper management/sales. Work from home has changed the game. Owning the homes of employees is a write off on net revenue. Big companies really don't care if it helps retain top employees and also put them in a region where they excel.

A former buddy got moved out to Ohio about 3 years ago. Toyota lost on that house because they bought the most expensive house in town for the employee during the housing boom. It was likely paid for with cash so it's just moving numbers around on paper to them. They probably win some and lose some with their employees, so the housing market isn't just John Doe losing his house because he lost his job. There's a lot of factors into lower sales prices, especially in urban areas.
457   GNL   2025 Jul 7, 10:46am  

PeopleUnited says

Price declines as in a majority of people selling houses for less than they paid for them?

Doubtful. But I do agree all real estate is local, so maybe coastal enclaves where prices rose higher than incomes allow, of course there will be corrections. But in many places there will be no correction, as there was no bubble. Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots.

If the prices go back to 2020 levels I will be shocked. But if interest rates don’t go back to 2020 levels even a modest correction will still not make housing more affordable. And mark my words, if interest rates do go back to 2020 levels, prices will stabilize if not rise even higher.

The only way we see housing become more affordable in the next 5 years is if people start losing jobs en masse. Of course if that happens we will see plenty of supply and cratering demand (except by investors not SFH owners).

I believe this it be the most accurate forecast. Especially the comment "Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots." I also believe this disparity will only get worse.
458   Eric Holder   2025 Jul 7, 11:12am  

GNL says


I believe this it be the most accurate forecast. Especially the comment "Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots." I also believe this disparity will only get worse.


Disparity is a false metric. The "have nots" are living the best quality life ever. As for how much the "haves" have: you can eat, drink and fuck only so much until you reach your physical limitations, so the difference between having $100M and $100B are basically moot.
459   WookieMan   2025 Jul 7, 12:33pm  

Just for reference in my area. I'm not talking bull shit on this thread or the housing thread. It's basically the entire region in which I live. https://www.timeout.com/chicago/news/chicago-area-home-prices-are-rising-four-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-the-u-s-062725

Neighboring states aren't doing bad either. Minneapolis is probably the worst. This is why I keep saying coastal areas. Even in a crappy state like IL we're doing well. Inland states doing slightly poorly are likely because of one metro. Not the entire state.
460   Glock-n-Load   2025 Jul 7, 12:53pm  

Eric Holder says

GNL says



I believe this it be the most accurate forecast. Especially the comment "Just a growing disparity between the haves and have nots." I also believe this disparity will only get worse.


Disparity is a false metric. The "have nots" are living the best quality life ever. As for how much the "haves" have: you can eat, drink and fuck only so much until you reach your physical limitations, so the difference between having $100M and $100B are basically moot.

Good Lord man, who’s talking about millionaires and billionaires?
461   PeopleUnited   2025 Jul 7, 8:18pm  

AD says

There just may not be enough home owners willing to sell at that deep of a discount and the potential home sellers will "wait it out" while household income increases by about 2.5% a year.


most homeowners are going to do the math, and wait until buyers have more cash. And those who make the most money, will get a house, those that can’t make enough have plenty of new apartment buildings to choose from.

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