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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ


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2022 Dec 26, 9:49am   52,590 views  779 comments

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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ

Allysia FinleyDec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET

Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.

Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”

Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.

New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”

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Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.

The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.

Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.

Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.

Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”

A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.


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613   GNL   2024 Mar 7, 6:26pm  

Ok, serious Question: what is the best purpose for the cyber truck? Part of your answer cannot include..."it's so fast".
614   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Mar 8, 12:36pm  







Tesla Motors was founded in 2003 by Mark Tarpenning and Martin Everhard. Elon Musk invested $6.5 million and appointed himself chairman of the board. A few years later he raised $30 million with help from the Google Founders. The investment came with the condition the he be named founder of the company. Then he proceeded to push out the founders, rewrote the history of the company to erase their names, and crowned himself the self-made “genius” behind the EV revolution.


Wow! I confess that I didn't know that one. But fortunately, my handy dandy meme library has just the meme to add here about this:



Eat that, Tesla Fluffers!

Warning: this article totally rips a new asshole in EV fantasists...particularly Tesla Fluffers

https://thegoodcitizen.live/p/evirtue-signaling
615   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 2:02pm  

"What will future generations think of this brief experiment with nudging consumers toward electric vehicles that offered them no discernible benefits in any consumer categories (including “clean energy”) over petrol or hybrid versions at substantially greater economic cost?

If future generations of men ever recover any healthy levels of testosterone what will they say when they learn that Dodge ditched their roaring V8 HEMI engine of pure American muscle for spontaneously combustible batteries?

They’ll probably say what I’ve already said: EVs are spectacularly gay, and gay will never be cool.

In that sense, the Tesla is the perfect representation of the times we’re living.

Gay."
616   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 3:08pm  

GNL says

The reviewer is questioning if the door opener will be strong enough to open the door when it's ice encrusted. LMAO, you push a button for it to open the doors and then you pull on it. This is adding up to retardation. Sorry Eman.

No need to apologize. The model 3 had icing issue with its handles. Tesla solved that so it should be a piece of cake to solve for the Cybertruck too IMO.

Elon is not a fan of car handles. The initial design had retractable handles just like the model S. Not sure what made them get away from that concept.

With respect to it being fast, the instant torque at any speed makes it really fun to drive. It puts a smile on my face every time. If you look at the crash and rollover tests, the Cybertruck outperforms any truck, or SUV out there. Tesla’s tech is top notch just like Apple. Very user friendly. All other brands feel outdated and hard to use once you’ve experienced a Tesla. So many convenient features that many cars don’t have.

The Tesla community has shared construction worker hauling sheetrock with the Cybertruck and farmer hauling hay with theirs too.
617   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 3:10pm  

If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?
618   EBGuy   2024 Mar 8, 3:15pm  

I guess you can always go with a more conventional look...



As a reminder, the Tesla Cybertruck wrapped to look like an F-150 appeared shortly after Ford CEO Jim Farley criticized the Cybertruck for not being a real work truck.
https://insideevs.com/news/681745/tesla-cybertruck-shows-ford-f150-persona-some-more/
619   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Mar 8, 4:24pm  

GNL says

what is the best purpose for the cyber truck?

It's a Status Symbol, bro.

That's the only purpose needed for the buyers.

Sheesh.
622   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 7:46pm  

Eman says


If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?

Don't tell me you think they're doing it voluntarily. Eman, this country is beyond FUBAR. I believe we will eventually be full on communist at some point.
623   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 7:50pm  

Eman says

Interesting take from Edmunds.



https://x.com/edmunds/status/1766132950243164340?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

But Eman, you said all Tesla vehicles were top notch best ever. How can that be?
624   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 7:51pm  

Serious question: if a farmer had his own charger and never had to leave the farm property, would a cyber truck be able to handle all required tasks needed from a pickup?
625   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:14pm  

This is only one person’s opinion from a country that doesn’t have Tesla…yet.



https://x.com/buyandholdbr/status/1766258238490579148?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
626   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:18pm  

GNL says

Eman says



If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?

Don't tell me you think they're doing it voluntarily. Eman, this country is beyond FUBAR. I believe we will eventually be full on communist at some point.

I’m not an insider so I don't know if they’re doing it voluntarily, or not. I think they have to meet some EPA mpg standard, and this is one way of achieving it. However, I believe they can also buy the credit and don't have to make EVs. They have options. Why do they choose to manufacture EVs? 🤷‍♂️
627   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:24pm  

GNL says

Eman says


Interesting take from Edmunds.



https://x.com/edmunds/status/1766132950243164340?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

But Eman, you said all Tesla vehicles were top notch best ever. How can that be?

Everyone’s standard is different. I love my car. It’s the best one I’ve ever owned. After 6.5 years, I still love it. It’s always clean. My wife feels the same way about her Tesla, and I always keep her car clean too.

With the recent reviews on the new model 3 and the Cybertruck, they make me want to buy one of each. However, I’m waiting until our 2023 taxes are done to see how we fare in our tax liabilities before I buy another Tesla. Then see how our 2024 taxes fare before I buy another Tesla in 2025.
628   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:26pm  

GNL says

Serious question: if a farmer had his own charger and never had to leave the farm property, would a cyber truck be able to handle all required tasks needed from a pickup?

I have no idea. I’ve never been a farmer. I provided the link to the YouTube video above. Maybe post your questions in the comment section, and Kim Java can help you get them answered by “the real farmer”?
629   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 9:29pm  

GNL says

Eman says



If the OEM car manufacturers don’t feel the pressure from EVs, why are they building EVs, while losing money on each EV they produce, and not sticking with their ICE business model?

Don't tell me you think they're doing it voluntarily. Eman, this country is beyond FUBAR. I believe we will eventually be full on communist at some point.

This reminds me of this saying:

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times
630   GNL   2024 Mar 8, 9:57pm  

Eman says

This reminds me of this saying:

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times

But you ran away from your country. Does that make you hard, weak or strong?
631   Eman   2024 Mar 8, 10:09pm  

GNL says

Eman says


This reminds me of this saying:

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times

But you ran away from your country. Does that make you hard, weak or strong?

I was a kid. South Vietnam fell and the communist took it over. It was a hard time for many. My dad (a strong man) managed to get all of us out and came to this lovely country.
632   GNL   2024 Mar 9, 3:49am  

Eman says

I was a kid. South Vietnam fell and the communist took it over. It was a hard time for many. My dad (a strong man) managed to get all of us out and came to this lovely country.


That's too bad because you missed the parts where Hard times create strong men and
Strong men create good times in Vietnam.
633   Eman   2024 Mar 9, 6:12am  

GNL says

Eman says


I was a kid. South Vietnam fell and the communist took it over. It was a hard time for many. My dad (a strong man) managed to get all of us out and came to this lovely country.


That's too bad because you missed the parts where Hard times create strong men and
Strong men create good times in Vietnam.

We’re only on this earth for a short time. We don’t get to choose which time frame it is. I try to make my stay during my time as enjoyable as possible and help my siblings and acquaintances along the way. Life is a journey be it strong or weak. So far, it’s been great. If there’s next life, I want to be my dad’s son again and marry to my wife again.

I love my family. I love my wife’s family. My dad said I did well marrying my wife and into a very nice family. 100% agreed.
634   socal2   2024 Mar 9, 9:28am  

Eman says

GNL says


Serious question: if a farmer had his own charger and never had to leave the farm property, would a cyber truck be able to handle all required tasks needed from a pickup?

I have no idea. I’ve never been a farmer. I provided the link to the YouTube video above. Maybe post your questions in the comment section, and Kim Java can help you get them answered by “the real farmer”?


Absolutely it can. It is perfect for localized farm work. Same thing for heavy construction, landscaping, local deliveries and majority jobs that don't require daily long hauls.
635   GNL   2024 Mar 9, 10:54am  

socal2 says


Absolutely it can. It is perfect for localized farm work. Same thing for heavy construction, landscaping, local deliveries and majority jobs that don't require daily long hauls.

Next question: can it do it better and more economically than an F-150?


637   Eman   2024 Mar 9, 11:35am  

GNL says

socal2 says



Absolutely it can. It is perfect for localized farm work. Same thing for heavy construction, landscaping, local deliveries and majority jobs that don't require daily long hauls.

Next question: can it do it better and more economically than an F-150?




These questions should be asked directly to the farmers. Only they know why they’re doing it. We’re speculating at best from the sidelines.

Maybe SoCal has a farming history, or a farmer himself so he can answer these questions. That would be so cool.

With respect to driving Tesla is a status symbol, someone mentioned this on X that a new Model Y sells for $36.5k after the Fed $7.5k tax credit while an average new ICE car sells for over $46k. I didn’t know this fact. Now I know what status means from some Patnet folks.
638   GNL   2024 Mar 9, 4:12pm  

Eman says

With respect to driving Tesla is a status symbol, someone mentioned this on X that a new Model Y sells for $36.5k after the Fed $7.5k tax credit while an average new ICE car sells for over $46k. I didn’t know this fact. Now I know what status means from some Patnet folks

Maybe it's less about status and more about virtue signaling?
639   Eman   2024 Mar 9, 5:47pm  

GNL says

Eman says


With respect to driving Tesla is a status symbol, someone mentioned this on X that a new Model Y sells for $36.5k after the Fed $7.5k tax credit while an average new ICE car sells for over $46k. I didn’t know this fact. Now I know what status means from some Patnet folks

Maybe it's less about status and more about virtue signaling?

I’m not sure what you mean by virtue signaling. Both SoCal and I bought Teslas because they’re fun to drive, and they serve our purpose. The tax credit and business deduction were some nice icing on the cake.
640   GNL   2024 Mar 9, 6:55pm  

Eman says

GNL says


Eman says



With respect to driving Tesla is a status symbol, someone mentioned this on X that a new Model Y sells for $36.5k after the Fed $7.5k tax credit while an average new ICE car sells for over $46k. I didn’t know this fact. Now I know what status means from some Patnet folks

Maybe it's less about status and more about virtue signaling?


I’m not sure what you mean by virtue signaling. Both SoCal and I bought Teslas because they’re fun to drive, and they serve our purpose. The tax credit and business deduction were some nice icing on the cake.

I'm wasn't referring to you and SoCal. I do think lots of Tesla owners think they're saving the planet though.
641   HeadSet   2024 Mar 9, 7:15pm  

GNL says

I do think lots of Tesla owners think they're saving the planet though.

That used to be the job of a Prius.
642   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Mar 10, 8:08am  

GNL says

I'm wasn't referring to you and SoCal. I do think lots of Tesla owners think they're saving the planet though.


You should have.
643   Eman   2024 Mar 10, 1:36pm  

Interesting statistics, not professionally compiled of course. Does this make the Cybertruck a SUT now? Selling 250k of these CT annually? Pipe dream?



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1766895549763232145?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
644   WookieMan   2024 Mar 10, 2:42pm  

Eman says

The Tesla community has shared construction worker hauling sheetrock with the Cybertruck and farmer hauling hay with theirs too.

I can put sheetrock IN my Armada OR on the roof with ease. AND still fit at least a 3rd passenger if I wanted. With the roof option probably 10 sheets and still put 7 people in there. AND tow 9k lbs at the same time. You absolute Cannot do that with a Cyber truck or any pickup truck period.

I frankly don't like any pickup trucks for non-business use. Maybe if you're a bachelor. I do tend to believe dudes driving around in pickup trucks are generally closeted gays if it's not primarily for daily work. There's no need for it. Even 4 door models are gay to drive around in for the 3-5 times a year you might need to use the bed on a Home Depot trip or drag a kayak around or something. It's a waste.

So my take isn't really about the EV part of it, though that just makes it overpriced waste. There's these things called trailers. They're bigger than truck beds and can hold more weight. I appreciated you admit it's fun to drive and that's basically it. That's not worth $30-50k more and waiting in line to charge for an hour to get 100 miles. I could do that for $25 of gas in 3 minutes and not wait.

Sorry
645   WookieMan   2024 Mar 10, 2:56pm  

Eman says

These questions should be asked directly to the farmers. Only they know why they’re doing it. We’re speculating at best from the sidelines.

I actually have asked a farmer with 8,000 acres that I grew up with and now our kids are friends go to the same school. It's a solid no. At least in IL 100%. He wouldn't bull shit me. He's my age and been farming his whole life. He's smart and knows what he needs to farm here and it was a resounding no.

How much bed is left in the truck when you put a diesel tank in there with 200 gallons fuel all the time? Then any gear you need. You'd maybe get 50 miles out of that. Real farmers easily will drive that in a day, especially seasonal crops for harvesting. That's why in my previous comment I mentioned the utility of trucks and it only being practical for work. Cyber Truck isn't. I've looked up the specs. A farmer also cannot wait around for it to charge either. This topic on the truck in frankly not debatable.
646   Eman   2024 Mar 10, 3:11pm  

Good news for ICE drivers. I guess EV drivers help to put a dent in the gasoline consumption. Hope gasoline prices will come down.



https://x.com/johnrhanger/status/1766817407115345986?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
647   WookieMan   2024 Mar 10, 3:12pm  

Eman says

With respect to driving Tesla is a status symbol, someone mentioned this on X that a new Model Y sells for $36.5k after the Fed $7.5k tax credit while an average new ICE car sells for over $46k. I didn’t know this fact. Now I know what status means from some Patnet folks.

Gonna pull a Rich on this one. Link? My mom's RAV4 hybrid can run 90 miles on electric, so an easy daily commute for 95% of the population probably. She basically has an EV and can still fill it up with gas and go 300-400 miles in one drive. And can always just gas up quick if on a road trip and not have to find charging stations.

She loves it and it was cheaper than $46k. And can tow decent weight for a mid sized SUV. New ICE cars are not that expensive unless you're including super high end cars. Straight non-hybrid cars prices are not bad at all for similar sized Teslas. So taking an average of all ICE cars is misleading.
648   WookieMan   2024 Mar 10, 3:15pm  

Eman says

Good news for ICE drivers. I guess EV drivers help to put a dent in the gasoline consumption. Hope gasoline prices will come down.

Natural gas prices and electric rates will go up.... You seriously can't be this obtuse? Not trying to be a dick, but power has to come from somewhere. They are going to charge you more my friend based on registration. With the subsidy they won't feel as bad raising rates and taxes on EV owners. It's coming dude.
649   Eman   2024 Mar 10, 3:19pm  

Wookie,

Do you read what you write? Why is it always about you? Each vehicle is designed with a purpose and cater to different group of people. The Cybertruck may not be for you or your farmer friend, but it suits other people and farmer. I show proof while you’re all talk without any proof.

Why do you think people pay $4M for a Bugatti? Do you believe you’re smarter than someone who owns a Bugatti?
650   Eman   2024 Mar 10, 3:21pm  

WookieMan says

Eman says


Good news for ICE drivers. I guess EV drivers help to put a dent in the gasoline consumption. Hope gasoline prices will come down.

Natural gas prices and electric rates will go up.... You seriously can't be this obtuse? Not trying to be a dick, but power has to come from somewhere. They are going to charge you more my friend based on registration. With the subsidy they won't feel as bad raising rates and taxes on EV owners. It's coming dude.

Tell me something I don’t know. I’ve witnessed it for years. That was why I got solar. Someone already mentioned that CA has included $175 surcharge for EVs to make up for the loss of revenue as they’re not paying gas taxes. Did you see that?
651   Eman   2024 Mar 10, 3:30pm  

When was the last time any here is excited about buying a car or truck like this guy? There’s something about the Cybertruck that make people either love it, or hate it.



https://x.com/dirtytesla/status/1766610256661020813?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q
652   WookieMan   2024 Mar 10, 4:25pm  

Eman says

Why do you think people pay $4M for a Bugatti? Do you believe you’re smarter than someone who owns a Bugatti?

It's a cool looking car that has actual craftsmanship. As GNL said some cars are art. Not my style personally so I'm not a Bugatti fan either. Teslas just aren't good looking cars. Again as others have said it's virtue signaling when the cars are worse for the environment. They're ugly with no utility. So is a Bugatti in my world. I don't care about speed or looks. I need to get shit done and raise a family and not worry about being "hip."

There's not a single model of Tesla that looks good. It's fine they hold up well in accidents. All modern cars do. I promise you if I T-boned any model of Tesla (besides the truck) going 55 there's a death or ambulance coming at minimum. It's just an overpriced car. You've answer that you like acceleration. That's worth it for frankly a stupid thought process. I'm clearly not changing that and it's actually fact, not opinion.

I could make $10M a year and I would have no interest in it or any fancy/expensive car. It's a waste. I'd rather take a trip with the wife and kids 10 times a year before you make up the difference my car costs and has utility. I just did, hence why I'm catching up with this thread. It was a blast. Couples trip with a VRBO in Galena, IL. Sex twice daily. Hot tub. Great restaurant, like actual good food. Hanging with good friends. I give no shit about the speed and acceleration of a car that got me to Galena because I have to follow the speed limit.

Maybe get off X. That's most of your posts recently. If you don't think their algorithms are gonna feed you his products you've clearly been bought and sold. I don't know, I do things with my hands and time. You can't do that with a Tesla.... It's not opinion either. Hybrids are the future and cheaper AND greener if you're into that. I'm not sure why we go back and forth on this. You like acceleration. It's not better or cheaper than similar sized cars besides acceleration. Is a field of beaten dead horses in your back yard?

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