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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ


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2022 Dec 26, 9:49am   52,134 views  778 comments

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Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ

Allysia FinleyDec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET

Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.

Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”

Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.

New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”

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Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.

The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.

Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.

Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.

Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”

A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.


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659   Patrick   2024 Mar 14, 11:53am  

Eman says

Chao’s sister Elaine Chao is married to McConnell and served as Secretary of Labor under President George W. Bush and Secretary of Transportation in President Donald Trump’s administration.





She was a billionaire?
660   RWSGFY   2024 Mar 14, 4:11pm  

What is the point of breaking glass when all you need is to wait until car is filled with water, thus equalizing inside and outside pressure, and simply open the door using a mechanical handle*?

*) Yes, Teslas have these and they are rather intuitive to find, unlike ones in Corvettes.
661   HeadSet   2024 Mar 14, 6:37pm  

RWSGFY says

What is the point of breaking glass when all you need is to wait until car is filled with water, thus equalizing inside and outside pressure, and simply open the door using a mechanical handle?

) Yes, Teslas have these and they are rather intuitive to find, unlike ones in Corvettes.

Does the battery short out when the car is submerged? If so, maybe the driver was shocked unconscious.
662   WookieMan   2024 Mar 15, 1:16am  

HeadSet says

RWSGFY says

What is the point of breaking glass when all you need is to wait until car is filled with water, thus equalizing inside and outside pressure, and simply open the door using a mechanical handle?

) Yes, Teslas have these and they are rather intuitive to find, unlike ones in Corvettes.

Does the battery short out when the car is submerged? If so, maybe the driver was shocked unconscious.

I'd go a step further. Don't submerge a car... Tesla or any model. But my guess is she just drove safely... lol, with acceleration she couldn't control...

This is why I laugh at the people and the acceleration. Illegal and dangerous. I'll admit I crashed into my own car in my driveway because of the speed of the cart going in reverse. Popped the entire bumper of my car off. Fortunately could clip it back in place and no cosmetic damage. Electric has massive torque and acceleration if you're not used to it.

People think EV's are fun to drive, but they are dangerous. The speed picks up so quick. We're giving unskilled drivers the ability to drive cars 0-60 in seconds. I'm not sure when that became a good idea? Women aren't buying Covettes or similar. They're buying Teslas they have no clue how to handle.

Since my seizure the wife drives. I wear a relief band for nausea and she's actually a decent driver. Call me sexist but I won't drive with women drivers. I have to be hammered to not drive myself. Now throw them in a Tesla at 10pm after a few drinks. Fuck no.
663   socal2   2024 Mar 15, 12:52pm  

WookieMan says

I'd go a step further. Don't submerge a car... Tesla or any model.


Actually, Tesla's do very well under water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBwmAMNI9qk
664   GNL   2024 Mar 15, 6:37pm  

The Pinto is the poster car, supposedly, of incompetent engineering.

"But the Pinto was, otherwise, not an unsafe car. It didn’t catch fire spontaneously, when parked. It didn’t catch fire when it was being fueled up. It didn’t drive itself into other cars – or people. And if you managed to back one up into a pond, the doors could be opened manually. Also the (usually) manual, crank-down windows."

--Eric Peters

In case no one else mentioned it, the billionairess's Telsa, as all Teslas, rely on electricity and computers to open the doors even from the inside. When the batteries got wet, they stopped working and she couldn't get out. Supposedly, rescue arrived in time to save her but even they couldn't get the doors open.

Can anyone confirm this is true or not?

Remind me to never purchase a Tesla.
665   Onvacation   2024 Mar 16, 6:59am  

Misc says

So....uhhhh.....EVs are so good that the car manufacturers are making them sound and feel like real cars ????

It's like vegans eating fake bacon.
666   WookieMan   2024 Mar 16, 9:26am  

Onvacation says

Misc says


So....uhhhh.....EVs are so good that the car manufacturers are making them sound and feel like real cars ????

It's like vegans eating fake bacon.

Let's not get started on that shit. That needs its own thread. Fucking impossible burger or whatever it is.... I eat cows. I eat pigs. Chicken. Turkey. I'm not eating processed fake meat. If I want veggies I'll get them from my garden or a decent grocery store. You're a fag if you eat that fake shit.
667   GNL   2024 Mar 23, 7:11pm  

What happened to @Eman? Here's a pretty good article https://www.theburningplatform.com/2024/03/23/the-hertz-meltdown-reveals-scale-of-the-ev-debacle/

I wonder if Tesla stock will take a hit.
668   WookieMan   2024 Mar 24, 6:00am  

GNL says

What happened to Eman? Here's a pretty good article https://www.theburningplatform.com/2024/03/23/the-hertz-meltdown-reveals-scale-of-the-ev-debacle/

I wonder if Tesla stock will take a hit.

I think he bailed on the site. Too negative… lol. Pointing out fact is just reality when entering a discussion. There’s going to be disagreements. He’s in RE. One of the most contentious industries. Too many hands in the cookie jar. They will be arguments and yelling. I’ve dealt with plenty.

It’s why I question what he has posted being true. Anyone can copy and paste from another forum none of us read. He started getting defensive and left I believe. That speaks volumes.

I’ve made an ass of myself here but I’ll never run. For good or bad. If I stop posting for more that a month I’m dead.
669   komputodo   2024 Mar 24, 10:40am  

WookieMan says

I wonder if Tesla stock will take a hit.

who knows? when good news is bad and bad is good, nobody can predict what will happen.
670   DemocratsAreTotallyFucked   2024 Mar 24, 11:38am  

WookieMan says

It’s why I question what he has posted being true. Anyone can copy and paste from another forum none of us read. He started getting defensive and left I believe. That speaks volumes.


On the Ukraine thread, he stated that he backed socal2s bs. Then I provided some choice samples of socal2's posts and pointed out to Eman this is what he was 'backing' whether he was aware of that or not. Then I asked him if he wanted to back out

Disappeared.
672   RWSGFY   2024 Apr 1, 9:20am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says







These are jornos playing with their employer's money, right? Because I can't imagine a normal person shelling out their hard-earned $70K for some midsize SUV from an unknown, unproven manufacturer....

2 yr lease - maybe, but buying it outright - no way, Jose.
673   DemocratsAreTotallyFucked   2024 Apr 2, 1:42pm  

RWSGFY says

These are jornos playing with their employer's money, right? Because I can't imagine a normal person shelling out their hard-earned $70K for some midsize SUV from an unknown, unproven manufacturer....

2 yr lease - maybe, but buying it outright - no way, Jose.


Oh contraire. They do.
675   socal2   2024 Apr 2, 6:06pm  

Great day to by MOAR TSLA because "smart people" in Wall Street don't seem to understand macro in Q1.

- Eco-terrorist attack on Berlin factory shutting down production for over 2 weeks
- Houthi attacks on shipping causing thousands of cars to be stuck on ships from China going around Africa to reach Europe
- Fremont factory re-tooling for the new Model 3 Highland launch
676   DemocratsAreTotallyFucked   2024 Apr 2, 7:41pm  

socal2 says

Great day to by MOAR TSLA because "smart people" in Wall Street don't seem to understand macro in Q1.

- Eco-terrorist attack on Berlin factory shutting down production for over 2 weeks
- Houthi attacks on shipping causing thousands of cars to be stuck on ships from China going around Africa to reach Europe
- Fremont factory re-tooling for the new Model 3 Highland launch




678   WookieMan   2024 Apr 4, 9:13pm  

socal2 says

Great day to by MOAR TSLA because "smart people" in Wall Street don't seem to understand macro in Q1.

- Eco-terrorist attack on Berlin factory shutting down production for over 2 weeks
- Houthi attacks on shipping causing thousands of cars to be stuck on ships from China going around Africa to reach Europe
- Fremont factory re-tooling for the new Model 3 Highland launch

Dude, you like your car. I haven't seen anyone argue it's a bad car for YOUR wants and needs. It's overpriced and takes 3-4 years for EV to pay off the difference of a similar car. Sure not as zippy, but still accomplishes the mission. Like a Toyota Corolla or similar.

Also there's no cars that need to go through the Suez or Red Sea that come to America. They come across the Pacific or European cars across the Atlantic. Tesla might source parts elsewhere, but it's mainly an American made car. Most of Toyota and Nissan are made here. Can't recall the company but most of your new car tires come from a Asian company that built a huge tire plant near Nashville.

The global thing didn't work out. We've been decoupling from it for a while and it was accelerated by covid. Your cars in the next 10 years will all be made in America or Mexico.

EV's have reached their saturation point. Car buyers are men for the most part. I know plenty of women that had their mid-life crisis and got a Tesla. Men want sports cars that make noise. Sale will continue to drop. Cyber Truck deliveries will get the soy boys that think it makes them look manly. Those sales will dry up as well. Hence why Musk is on every podcast on the planet and has started advertising. I don't play the stock game, but I'd be shorting if I was a gambler.
679   HeadSet   2024 Apr 5, 7:19am  

WookieMan says

I don't play the stock game, but I'd be shorting if I was a gambler.

Tesla Stock trading about $170 today. Let's check back later and see if shorting would have won.
680   socal2   2024 Apr 5, 8:02am  

WookieMan says

Also there's no cars that need to go through the Suez or Red Sea that come to America. They come across the Pacific or European cars across the Atlantic. Tesla might source parts elsewhere, but it's mainly an American made car.


The Chinese gigafactory factory is one of Tesla's highest production volume factories and ships cars to Europe that would use the Suez canal. There is also major component suppliers that were disrupted having to send ships around the horn of Africa.

WookieMan says

Car buyers are men for the most part. I know plenty of women that had their mid-life crisis and got a Tesla. Men want sports cars that make noise.


I thought you told me that you don't need power or acceleration and driving is no kick for you? You are fine tooling around in a big Japanese Nissan provided you can tow your toys around? If you like fast and powerful cars now, you can't get a faster or more powerful car than a Tesla for the price.

WookieMan says

Cyber Truck deliveries will get the soy boys that think it makes them look manly.


You sure about that?

It's already iconic with some groups.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E8y7vbQnlx8
681   socal2   2024 Apr 5, 8:08am  

HeadSet says

Tesla Stock trading about $170 today. Let's check back later and see if shorting would have won.


I think the stock will be pretty flat this year. Lots of Liberals hating on Elon driving B.S. FUD stories and trying to prop up the dying Fords and GM's. Interest rates are high impacting all auto sales.

The next big leg up will be later this year when they introduce the much cheaper Model 2 and Full Self Driving gets more mainstream.

All Tesla owners are getting a free one month subscription to FSD this month (haven't gotten mine yet). But the initial reviews from drivers is quite positive.

I don't think people appreciate how much FSD is going to change transportation and our society. How do you put a value on this technology? Especially if Tesla licenses it to other automakers? There is no other technology on the planet that is close to this level of useful AI and Tesla is growing their lead every single day with millions of miles of new training data from all their cars on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs96BKDCDR4
682   HeadSet   2024 Apr 5, 10:51am  

socal2 says

I don't think people appreciate how much FSD is going to change transportation and our society.

I wonder if Uber and Lyft stock will also increase because this FSD looks like it will soon eliminate the need for a driver. I have long predicted that private cars will be unaffordable by 2035 and people will just order rides via app and have a FSD vehicle add them to an irregular route.
683   WookieMan   2024 Apr 5, 4:52pm  

socal2 says

I thought you told me that you don't need power or acceleration and driving is no kick for you? You are fine tooling around in a big Japanese Nissan provided you can tow your toys around? If you like fast and powerful cars now, you can't get a faster or more powerful car than a Tesla for the price.

I personally don't. Most men don't. They want utility. Tesla doesn't provide that for any model. Have a family of 5 that goes 250 miles with a trailer up to Wisconsin twice a month in the summer. Gas the Armada up and get there on one tank and tool around the entire weekend without filling up until the return trip. With a trailer or camper. I can get in mud and off road situations. No model of Tesla does that without a charging stop.

I have just the weekend. I don't have fucking time for that shit. Cyber Truck is the only one that can tow and you'd be lucky to get 100 miles out of it. This is just leisure. There's also work. I just drove 150 miles today with ZERO chargers on the way. It's still chilly here. Even if topped off, there would be risk of running out of electric on the trip and no where to charge. Nope. Not worth it for a shitty looking sedan. All sedans look shitty to me, so not being biased. The truck looks like a retard got ahold of a CAD program on acid. The specs suck.
684   zzyzzx   2024 Apr 9, 8:49am  

HeadSet says

socal2 says


FSD looks like it will soon eliminate the need for a driver.


Not soon, or not anytime reasonably soon.
685   socal2   2024 Apr 9, 12:30pm  

zzyzzx says

Not soon, or not anytime reasonably soon.


I will let you know later this month once I get my free 1 month subscription that Tesla is offering all Tesla drivers.
686   WookieMan   2024 Apr 9, 2:14pm  

socal2 says

zzyzzx says

Not soon, or not anytime reasonably soon.

I will let you know later this month once I get my free 1 month subscription that Tesla is offering all Tesla drivers.

Why is Telsa offering anything is my question? I thought it was a miracle car? Sales are drying up. Not the hugest state, but I have a wide network. No one is looking to buy a Tesla that doesn't already have one in IL. Going off what I see in person. Missed it during the housing bust when lumber flatbed semis literally disappeared. Private jets disappeared at my local airport.

Fact is your head needs to be on a swivel. My wife is looking for fucking eagles while she drives. I'm autistic in a sense. Something as simple as my neighborhood gas station has half the firewood purchased in 2 days. I don't need charts and graphs. It's pretty damn obvious if you're looking. I'm full blown anecdotal at this point. I don't trust a thing the media says for sure. I'd actually trust some of you here for your location based observations. Never would take a stock tip or an investment tip though.
687   socal2   2024 Apr 9, 2:31pm  

WookieMan says

Why is Telsa offering anything is my question? I thought it was a miracle car?


Tesla's valuation "as a car company" has always been crazy high because the future value of things like Full Self Driving. Software margins and SaaS revenue potential has always been the driver for Tesla's high stock price. There is no way Tesla can sell enough cars alone to justify it's valuation.

Unlike all the other AI and large language model (LLM) developments in the last 12 months like ChatGPT which are basically novelties - Tesla's full self driving AI is already very useful and has massive revenue potential in the real world. And no one else is even remotely close to developing what Tesla already has and Tesla's lead is growing exponentially every single day as millions of Teslas on the road and feeding Tesla's machine learning. Tesla will be able to license this technology to other automakers which will allow them to make absolute bank because software margins are so good and all the cost of development has been spent.

I have personally driven at least 15,000 miles using Tesla's basic autopilot and absolutely love it and trust it more than my driving. I was coming home late last night after a customer dinner in Los Angeles and let it do 98% of the freeway driving for the 90 mile drive. It is such a better experience to let the car do the heavy lifting and allow you to relax a bit more and keep an eye on other things.

FSD is going to change transportation IMO. Robotaxis, freight, floater car to take grandparents and kids around.....
688   GNL   2024 Apr 9, 4:27pm  

“Let the car do the heavy lifting so I can keep an eye on other things.”

FFS, that is some of the craziest shit I’ve ever read. You know you’ll be help liable if something goes wrong, right?
689   HeadSet   2024 Apr 9, 4:57pm  

Apparently new unsold 2023 F-150 Lightnings are being discounted:


690   WookieMan   2024 Apr 9, 6:17pm  

socal2 says

I have personally driven at least 15,000 miles using Tesla's basic autopilot and absolutely love it and trust it more than my driving. I was coming home late last night after a customer dinner in Los Angeles and let it do 98% of the freeway driving for the 90 mile drive. It is such a better experience to let the car do the heavy lifting and allow you to relax a bit more and keep an eye on other things.

You do know it's going to lead to more DUI's, right? Cops for sure profile by car. You don't need to hit a line to get pulled over. If you're swerving inside the lines that's still a reason to pull you over. Self driving is notoriously bouncing back and forth between the lines. Make sure you haven't had a drink when you say it was a client dinner. Your luck runs out at some point.

The owner of the Tesla I drove got a DUI in it. So yeah, autopilot is not your friend. This is no different than flying. If you can't hand drive a car anymore the shit will hit the fan in a multitude of ways. The DUI was because of the autopilot FYI. She would have gotten a hotel once she sat down in the car and realized she couldn't drive. I have to live with what I know. It's not fool proof. I would never drive a Tesla after having a drink. I drink a good amount. Not even one drink. ZERO DUI's. She had none until she got a Tesla. Just saying.

If you're driving after 10pm you've got a target on your back. I don't need that. Cops know you're potentially passed out in a moving vehicle. So you're going to be scrutinized more. I can keep any car between the lines smoothly. No interest in a cop thinking I'm hammered on autopilot. Because that's 100% what cops think. Hence why the insurance is so high on Tesla's.
691   socal2   2024 Apr 9, 7:36pm  

GNL says

FFS, that is some of the craziest shit I’ve ever read. You know you’ll be help liable if something goes wrong, right?


Of course I would be liable - just like I would be liable if the standard cruise control malfunctioned and I rear ended someone in my wife's Hyundai.

Regardless, I still love using adaptive cruise control for long freeway drives and makes my drive less stressful. Tesla Autopilot and Full Self Driving are the next level beyond that where it can take you door to door.

Tesla already has over 1 billion miles clocked on Full Self Driving (human supervised) without any major accidents or injuries. Millions of new miles are being driven every single day, especially this month with every Tesla owner getting a free trial and the release of Version 12 which is the big breakthrough. All that new training data just makes the driving better and better.

Statistically you have something like 700 crashes and 17 fatalities for every 1 billion miles driven in the US. Soon there will be plenty of real data for regulators and insurance companies to consider for future rules.


692   socal2   2024 Apr 9, 7:38pm  

WookieMan says

The owner of the Tesla I drove got a DUI in it. So yeah, autopilot is not your friend.


Full Self Driving Version 12 is a totally different thing than standard Autopilot.
694   DemocratsAreTotallyFucked   2024 Apr 11, 2:03pm  

socal2 says


Full Self Driving Version 12 is a totally different thing than standard Autopilot


Yes, we know.

Can't wait for that Single Fuckup to take Tesla out worse than Boeing. Too bad someone will have to die for it, like what happened with Uber's SDC program after they killed that cyclist in Arizona.


695   WookieMan   2024 Apr 11, 8:49pm  

socal2 says

WookieMan says

The owner of the Tesla I drove got a DUI in it. So yeah, autopilot is not your friend.

Full Self Driving Version 12 is a totally different thing than standard Autopilot.

Again, if you enjoy a night out on the town, you think "self driving" it going to get you home you're absolutely wrong. It will result in more DUI accidents.

Not many Teslas here, but I'll get 2-3 lanes away on the highway if it's after 6pm. I get into a car to drive. If I can't I shouldn't. I'll stay at a hotel or buddies house.

It's not about the tech. It's about killing people based on the tech. I'm smarter than a car. I think a lot of Tesla drivers have engineer brains. They're generally dumber than street smart folks. No at fault accidents in my life. One was the other persons fault. Tesla cannot say the same.
696   DemocratsAreTotallyFucked   2024 Apr 21, 8:46am  

Rivian still lost 107,000 dollars on every vehicle delivered in 2023

https://www.electrive.com/2024/02/22/rivian-records-billions-in-losses-in-2023/
697   DemocratsAreTotallyFucked   2024 Apr 21, 8:51am  

Tesla In Turmoil: The EV Meltdown In 10 Charts

The layoffs at Tesla (and the recall of the Cybertruck) are only part of the electric vehicle debacle

https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/teslas-turmoil-the-ev-meltdown-in






























698   WookieMan   2024 Apr 21, 10:53am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Tesla In Turmoil: The EV Meltdown In 10 Charts

The layoffs at Tesla (and the recall of the Cybertruck) are only part of the electric vehicle debacle

I know you've been saying this, so have I, and you post this. Pretty damming and I don't think people understand. It's beyond the car itself. Well maybe the Cyber Truck is fucked. I think it is. Market saturation is here if not already done. One cold week in IL shows it's not a reliable car in cold temps.

They'll still sell cars, but will it be profitable? Clearest answer is no. You simply won't be able to charge them without massive brown outs cutting off EVERYONE's electric in the summer. They don't work in cold. That's not going to win over potential new customers. The grid cannot handle it and the rare earth minerals needed could go into productive stuff instead of driving around in zippy car with limited range and no utility for a family.

They won't go away, but the market is nearing its max. Need more nukes if it will ever be feasible and slave labor.

It was a poor business model. Hybrids are the market. It's kind of obvious. Cheaper, same maintenance for the most part as an EV and mechanics that have been around for a century in some family auto shops.

Hell just last week I had 3 track meets with ZERO charging stations 60 miles away (one way) in cool weather. No chance I'd trust a Tesla or any EV for that range. Between events I'll sit in the car with the heat going. I don't see myself ever buying an EV. Have driven them and they're fun. That's it. Our IL grid is solid, but I know the oil/gas grid will be there. I'm kind of in the middle of nowhere. But driving in any direction there's a gas station within 20 miles max, but no charging stations.

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