patrick.net

Eric Holder says

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

Our siblings bought a few months ago and got $9.5-$15k tax rebates and tax credit. $2k to $7.5k from State and $7.5k from Federal. PG&E also offers $500 to install a level 2 charger at home. There are a lot more rebates for low income folks and folks with a beater car, etc… the incentives could be over $20k if one qualified for all these.

This is why Hertz is taking a bath with their used fleet EV. It’s the freaking market and all the incentives that are being offer. It’s not their fault or the car’s fault.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eric Holder says

Well, duh.

socal2, Eman and probably others following along actually have to be told that, believe it or not.

Not that they will listen. This is emotional for them.

Projecting much? I buy a new car every couple years. They’re tax deductible. The business is paying for them unlike W2 folks. There’s nothing to be emotional about.

Eman says

Who in their right mind would pay $25k for a used Tesla model 3 with 70-90k miles on it?

Exactly.

PoS.

Eman says

years. They’re tax deductible. The business is paying for them unlike W2 folks. There’s nothing to be emotional about.

Sure there is, no matter how snobbist you wrap it all up.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

years. They’re tax deductible. The business is paying for them unlike W2 folks. There’s nothing to be emotional about.

Sure there is, no matter how snobbist you wrap it all up.

Jealousy much? Every man chooses his own path. I love the path I’ve been on in the last 1.5 decades. I knew I wanted my own company before I graduated college. The opportunity door opened in 2009, and I jumped in head first. Thanks to the higher power. 🙏

UkraineIsFucked says

socal2 says

Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car (of all types) in the world beating out the Toyota Corolla.

Tesla Fluffing Example...what number is this one? 6?

This still holds true:

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations

At what point wouldn’t it be a niche product? 10%, 30%, 50% adoption?

“AND as far as EVs go, China's BYD outsells Tesla: https://mishtalk.com/economics/only-6-percent-in-the-us-want-an-ev-for-their-next-vehicle/”

I see you’re parroting without having an in-depth reading and understanding. It’s fact that BYD outsold Tesla on cars so did Toyota and Honda, etc…. However, BYD didn’t outsell Tesla on EV.

UkraineIsFucked says

Since EVs are broadly more expensive to purchase upfront than comparable gas vehicles, the best way to assess whether an EV will ultimately be cheaper to own over the long term is by looking at its break-even time: when its lower recurring costs make up for its higher upfront cost. Woody and his team found that 200-mile range compact and midsize electric sedans reach this point in 3 to 7 years, while 300-mile range variants take nine to 20 years to break even. Electric SUVs and trucks with 300 miles of range generally take more than 20 years, while 400-mile range EVs will never break even over their lifetimes.

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2024/01/16/are_evs_actually_cheaper_to_own_maybe_not_1005129.html

Real clear science. 😂😂😂

I hope it’s more clear than “the vaccines are safe and effective.”

socal2 says

UkraineIsFucked says

Already did.

Where - how?

Also, it is staggering how much more successful this American company is compared to everyone else including Volkswagen. Most of these OEM's will be out of business before the end of this decade. They are nothing more than a bankrupt Municipal Pension fund who make crappy cars on the side.

More math for the short bus folks. Less than 2 years ago, all the "smart people" were predicting VW would be eclipsing Tesla's EV sales and profits by now.



https://twitter.com/alojoh/status/1747303213173235838

Don’t let facts get in the way of emotional journalism. 🤪

UkraineIsFucked says

socal2 says

Where - how?

Ok. You are now just trolling. And you aren't even doing a good job as that.

Hey Eman ! Proud of your boy here?

He’s not my boy, but he’s doing great if I can be honest with you.

Porch is niche and is doing fine. VW is mainstream and doing meh. Maybe itʼs not such a bad thing to be a niche manufacturer after all...

RWSGFY says

Porch is niche and is doing fine. VW is mainstream and doing meh. Maybe itʼs not such a bad thing to be a niche manufacturer after all...

I don't think most people truly understand how much more profitable Tesla is compared to the other OEM's.

Elon and Tesla have revolutionized manufacturing bringing costs down.........and after building 2 massive new factories, they basically have zero debt unlike all the other OEM's that are drowning in debt and stuck with old outdated factories and massive pension libailities.



Also, keep in mind that Tesla is beating virtually all of the other OEM's even though Tesla is making a more expensive and difficult to build EV's. When you compare Tesla's margins to other OEM's just EV's, Tesla's lead is even larger!

Tesla is truly one of the best American success stories in my lifetime and their CEO is not a woke retard. But alot of MAGA and Conservatives still have their hate on.

I love America. I would love to support everything that is made here, but American cars suck compared to Japanese cars. It’s an honor to drive an American made car while having so much fun driving it. No Japanese cars for us as long as Tesla is still around. Definitely no German cars. The maintenance sucks…

RWSGFY says

Porch is niche and is doing fine. VW is mainstream and doing meh. Maybe itʼs not such a bad thing to be a niche manufacturer after all...

This is the thing. Do what works for yourself and your family. The pond is big enough for so many players. Everyone’s situation is different

https://energytheory.com/volvo-ce-and-rolls-royce-bring-wood-burning-off-grid-ev-chargers/

Interesting take from someone who owns a diesel trucking company and has been driving a Tesla for a decade.

https://x.com/allevehicles/status/1748478129746620545?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Booger says

https://energytheory.com/volvo-ce-and-rolls-royce-bring-wood-burning-off-grid-ev-chargers/

I would not be surprised if those "wood burning" generators end up with an option to burn petroleum products.

Eman says

Interesting take from someone who owns a diesel trucking company and has been driving a Tesla for a decade.

https://x.com/allevehicles/status/1748478129746620545?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

It works for him because he owns private chargers that he needs not wait in line for. The big issue with low temperatures is the very slow charge rate along with the decreased range per charge. This means long lines for those who depend on public charging stations in cold weather.

HeadSet says

Eman says

Interesting take from someone who owns a diesel trucking company and has been driving a Tesla for a decade.

https://x.com/allevehicles/status/1748478129746620545?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

It works for him because he owns private chargers that he needs not wait in line for. The big issue with low temperatures is the very slow charge rate along with the decreased range per charge. This means long lines for those who depend on public charging stations in cold weather.

I’m a problem solver so I always look for solutions. I believe people, who have no access to a level 2 charger at home or work in cold climate, should think twice about driving/owning an EV. It’s not for everyone.

Thankfully, we live in the Bay Area and never have to deal with freezing or negative temperature. A friend drives a model Y and uses 110V charger at his 1-bedroom condo, and it works for him.

We have two level 2 chargers in our garage so it’s not a problem for us. Guests are encouraged to plug-in their car whenever they’re here as we have surplus with our solar. The 60amp charger, which is mounted near the garage door, is for both indoor and outdoor use. It gives 44 mph. Pretty sweet.

Eman says

The 60amp charger, which is mounted near the garage door, is for both indoor and outdoor use. It gives 44 mph.

The Bolt EUV I had would only get about 24 miles per hour of charge using a Level 2 charger. Even so, that is enough to charge the car overnight.

24 mph likely has a 40-amp circuit breaker?

In general, I do things with an intention in mind. I call it one time effort for long-term benefits. 😅

We have a 50-amp charger deep inside the garage as I back my car in. We get 30 mph. That’s plenty for overnight charging. The 60-amp is mainly for guests.

The laundry room is next to the garage. The dryer is 30-amp. We should get 18 mph with a 14-50 charging adapter if ever needed.

The Tesla community on X is strong. Here is a post from some white guy on his Tesla experience. It’s also true for us. We don’t see ourselves ever going back to driving ICE cars.

https://x.com/alex_avoigt/status/1748698497006600642?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Stations are more practical solution. On wall socket my plaid takes about 100h to fully charge at around 12A load! btw, I don't have strong opinion on EVs.

They're not bad cars,Tesla. It's just not the future in our lifetimes. We're not bashing the cars or the owners of them. You guys don't understand capacity of our electric grid and ability to mine the stuff needed to build the batteries. And maintain roads as MFT goes offline with every EV sale. The prices are only going to skyrocket for everything related to them in the next couple years. It will be a burden to own them. They're not green. There's a reason Hertz is selling. I'll semi trust a major corporation that buys cars daily and sells them instead of EV fan boys. Not a knock, just being straight. They have stockholders they have to answer to. You guys just like them and enjoy paying a premium for a vehicle that's going to cost you more very shortly, besides the sticker price.

On paper the idea is good. A fun fast car to drive that you can sell as supposedly "green" but it's not. Your registration, fees and utility costs are going to skyrocket. And yes, it is a golf cart. Understand the tech you're driving. It's been around for decades if you golf. Most other manufacturers have the self driving crap too, so that's not unique to Tesla. I've driven Tesla. I've driven a Jaguar that I didn't touch the wheel dozens of miles that I can fuel up in 3-5 minutes and get 300-400 miles versus 30+ minutes to get less mileage.

I don't care if people buy the "trend" at the moment. It's just not the future. We have way too much oil resources. Network already in place. Tesla is close to maxing out its market. Cyber Truck will be a flop as people that need to tow stuff generally do a lot of miles and can't sit there and charge for 20 minutes to get another 80-100 miles. Time is money and EV's are a money suck.

I also don't understand why anyone would even own a sedan or half assed mid sized SUV. What are you going to do with it? And as mentioned temperature is a thing. A good 1/3rd of the country is in cold weather. I just parked my car for a week at the airport with -7ºf temps (for a high) and it started right up. Tesla ain't doing that and getting back to my house 65 miles away. They're reaching max market saturation. Domestically the buyers are going to be nearing nothing and when the government comes after you for registration or MFT, your expensive golf cart compared to similar sized models just got a whole hell of a lot more expensive.

Sorry for the novel but I know this industry. EV owners are going to get smashed and regret owning them. Just own that it's a car that you like to drive. Don't say it's cheaper. Don't say it's green. By a factor of 2-3 they are worse than ICE vehicles that are similar size and $20-50k cheaper.

Eman says

Real clear science

If you can't handle facts because it flies in the face of your personal ideology, that only confirm what I've been saying about EV owners. Unlike Wookie, I call you out on your bullshit.

WookieMan says

You guys don't understand capacity of our electric grid and ability to mine the stuff needed to build the batteries

Forget it Wookie. They don't WANT TO UNDERSTAND because to them they are in a cult. The cognitive dissonance is too great for them to overcome.

WookieMan says

We're not bashing the cars or the owners of them.

I am. I tried facts and reason. And calling a spade a spade is the only way to go right now.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

Real clear science

If you can't handle facts because it flies in the face of your personal ideology, that only confirm what I've been saying about EV owners. Unlike Wookie, I call you out on your bullshit.

What BS did I make and you called out? 🤪

“Just own that it's a car that you like to drive. Don't say it's cheaper. Don't say it's green. By a factor of 2-3 they are worse than ICE vehicles that are similar size and $20-50k cheaper.”

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

I drive Tesla because I like it, not because it’s green. I install solar because it makes financial sense, not because it’s green.

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

I drive Tesla because I like it, not because it’s green. I install solar because it makes financial sense, not because it’s green.

I really hope this was sarcasm. You bought a Tesla AND installed solar that won't pay back for a decade and it made financial sense?? I get you said you like the car. I've driven them. A hybrid is cheaper by a long shot by MSRP and MPG. So i'd tread lightly saying it makes financial sense. It literally doesn't. At all. Just like a Ferrari doesn't make financial sense.

You bought a car for status. Just admit it. It's okay. They're fun to drive. You didn't need it. They have no functional use besides getting 4 people, with 2 in the back with no leg room from A to B. Between solar panels and the car you literally pissed away $50k at minimum that could have been reinvested in real estate. THIS is what we're saying. You wasted money dude. It's fact.

You keep comparing apples to oranges. At the time of purchase, I was eyeing either a MBZ S550, or Lexus LS460. Those cars ride smooth and they have air suspensions. My biz partner bought a Tesla in March 2017 and was heckling me to buy one. Then came August with 0.99% financing and $11.5k tax credit, rebates and discount, I went for it. My net cost was $77k after all the discounts, which was cheaper than ICE cars while the instant torque made the ride much more fun. Also, I get free supercharging for life. That’s $300/month of savings on gas.

You have no idea what “status” means living in the Bay Area. MBZ, BMW, Lexus and Tesla, are everywhere. If you want status, try at least a Ferrari, or Lamborghini Aventador, or a Rolls Royce. You ain’t 💩 if you drive an old Ferrari or Lambo.

This 27-year old Google engineer couple paid over $2M for this “average” house in an average neighborhood in the Bay Area. A $2M house in your neck of the woods maybe a status, but that’s not how it works here.



https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/19/google-engineer-murder-liren-chen-xuanyi-yu/

Solar was 100% financed. It’s generating equivalent to $620/month of electricity before all the annual rate increases. It should pay for itself after 6 years. Then free electricity thereafter for the life of the solar, which has 25 years warranty and 92% efficiency at the end of its life span.

When it comes to numbers, I dare anyone dance with me.

Eman says

https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/19/google-engineer-murder-liren-chen-xuanyi-yu/

I thought I recognized that house. Here it is:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uvftTvyAPFTApDMr6

Google protects criminals. I know it's that house because of the ones on the left and right. I bet the guy vastly over-extended himself and just lost it and went nuts. It is stressful to live here, very expensive. That's why most people sold out and are now working for the intelligence agencies either knowingly or unknowingly.

Eman says

Solar was 100% financed. It’s generating equivalent to $620/month of electricity before all the annual rate increases. It should pay for itself after 6 years. Then free electricity thereafter for the life of the solar, which has 25 years warranty and 92% efficiency at the end of its life span.

When it comes to numbers, I dare anyone dance with me.

You're a welfare whore. If it actually made sense to install solar, instead of having government subsidies, people would buy it without a second thought because it was actually cheaper.

This is simple economics, and drives me crazy that government welfare sluts like you, justify it because you're advantaged by having EVERYBODY ELSE pay for it, when it's a net drain.

richwicks says

I thought I recognized that house. Here it is:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uvftTvyAPFTApDMr6

I was able to see this shack about an hour ago but its masked out now! I know someone who lives in a similar house within 10 min walk west side of it, bought for about 600k way back, now its $2m. This area is ok and kind of ghetto around. The schools are Ok not great unless send to private (15-25k/kid/y).
Only very few can buy now who MADE money through either business or vested lot of stock options. It makes no financial sense to buy and paying taxes at 2m for many.
Yesterday on Radio heard a program "Repeal the death tax" by "Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association" on Prop 19 that was passed last year to put a small dent on commie 1978 Prop 13 no tax for rich paid by poor and middle class! CA is totally f*up with Prop 13 by rich leaches who will never let it get repealed to enslave all middle and poor forever. This is one of the driver to keep houses for generations to keep ever going down tax rates for generations as the tax tied to purchase price!!

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

Your pal socal2 did. And you signed up to his trashed credibility, remember?

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

Your pal socal2 did. And you signed up to his trashed credibility, remember?

Eman says

What BS did I make and you called out?

Unbelievable.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

Your pal socal2 did. And you signed up to his trashed credibility, remember?

Alright, if this is all you got, I’ll never respond to you ever again. It was nice chatting.

richwicks says

Eman says

Solar was 100% financed. It’s generating equivalent to $620/month of electricity before all the annual rate increases. It should pay for itself after 6 years. Then free electricity thereafter for the life of the solar, which has 25 years warranty and 92% efficiency at the end of its life span.

When it comes to numbers, I dare anyone dance with me.

You're a welfare whore. If it actually made sense to install solar, instead of having government subsidies, people would buy it without a second thought because it was actually cheaper.

This is simple economics, and drives me crazy that government welfare sluts like you, justify it because you're advantaged by having EVERYBODY ELSE pay for it, when it's a net drain.

Everybody = myself included. I accept what the government offers to everyone. I didn’t take anything from anyone illegitimately.

You’re a whiner. I won’t waste my time with you. See you around Patnet, but don’t expect me to respond to any of your posts in the future.

Eman says

Everybody = myself included. I accept what the government offers to everyone. I didn’t take anything from anyone illegitimately.

You’re a whiner. I won’t waste my time with you. See you around Patnet, but don’t expect me to respond to any of your posts in the future.

Rich is aggressive, so don't get worked up about it. I do like his takes on a lot of things though somewhat repetitive at time. I don't think you're getting what I'm saying at least. The government WILL get their money from you. Especially being in CA with the highest gas tax in the nation. That money is used to pay for your already shitty roads and you're not paying it. And yes I was just out there and I know the industry. CA has awful roads considering they don't freeze and thaw at the lower elevations.

Your $300 savings is going to be a massive swing in registration fees or MFT at the charging station at some point in the near future. CA can legislate fees at charging stations overnight to get tax revenue. Enjoy it now, no one has said you did anything illegitimate. All I'm saying is you overpaid for a car and the saving WILL go away. And in 6 years you're going to need another probably $100k car. You do what you want with your $$$ but it simply isn't logical for a car in any way.

You can't tout real estate prowess and then talk about a $70k car being a good value and you're saving money. You're not. You can buy an electric hybrid and pay $0 in gas. And you can get bigger cars that have more utility for $40k with longer range. We don't have the grid for this shit and you know it out in CA. Just admit the only reason you have it is status and it's a fun car to drive. That's 100% and not a judgement. I've been to CA plenty and have seen the useless luxury cars. It's stupid bad out there.

Put the $30-50k difference into investments, not cars. I hope you paid cash too. Financing $70k on a car is doubling down on a bad decision. This isn't a horse and carriage to a model T. You can get other cars that get from A to B. Driving an expensive car is just a target on your back that people know they extract your money. Again have fun with it, but there are nice cars for half the cost and still can be $0 in gas a month. Hybrids will get taxed too. I frankly don't get how this is even a conversation. You cannot pay for roads taking ICE vehicles off the roads, especially out there. It's coming dude. The roads and grid need the $$$$ and a lot of it.