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1
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Feb 4, 7:20am
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2023 Feb 4, 7:20am
Investors in US Treasuries would also be dismayed to learn that the money is gone, spent, by the USG.
2
RayAmerica
2023 Feb 4, 7:25am
RayAmerica
2023 Feb 4, 7:25am
Al_Sharpton_for_President says
Take a look at any denomination of U. S. paper currency. It's nothing other than a promissory note issued by the Federal Reserve. The 'faith'
people have in their currency rests upon the shoulders of the private Banksters that own the Fed.
I remember my Mother back in 1964 collecting as much silver coins that she could get her hands on. When I asked her why, she told me that the
'new coins are not going to be real money, the real money has silver, which has a value by itself.'
Investors in US Treasuries would also be dismayed to learn that the money is gone, spent, by the USG.
Take a look at any denomination of U. S. paper currency. It's nothing other than a promissory note issued by the Federal Reserve. The 'faith'
people have in their currency rests upon the shoulders of the private Banksters that own the Fed.
I remember my Mother back in 1964 collecting as much silver coins that she could get her hands on. When I asked her why, she told me that the
'new coins are not going to be real money, the real money has silver, which has a value by itself.'
3
clambo
2023 Feb 4, 7:26am
Social Security is a legal Ponzi scheme; your social security taxes are paid out to people who are retired and not yet dead.
Then, hopefully those retired die in time for you to receive social security paid by the other guys 30 years younger than you are.
The funny thing is if you have other investments, you end up paying social security back in April; last year I paid the US Treasury almost what I received in Social Security payments.
The most absurd thing is years ago they passed a law that Social Security payments would increase automatically to compensate for inflation.
This is unlike ANY true pension; payments cannot rise.
I'm getting my social security tax money back if I live long enough, which is better than a stick in the eye.
I regret that nobody ever adopted Herman Cain's idea of a flat tax and a simple tax return.
Then, hopefully those retired die in time for you to receive social security paid by the other guys 30 years younger than you are.
The funny thing is if you have other investments, you end up paying social security back in April; last year I paid the US Treasury almost what I received in Social Security payments.
The most absurd thing is years ago they passed a law that Social Security payments would increase automatically to compensate for inflation.
This is unlike ANY true pension; payments cannot rise.
I'm getting my social security tax money back if I live long enough, which is better than a stick in the eye.
I regret that nobody ever adopted Herman Cain's idea of a flat tax and a simple tax return.
4
RayAmerica
2023 Feb 4, 7:28am
RayAmerica
2023 Feb 4, 7:28am
The longer I live, the more I realize that we live in a world of make believe, where everything is distorted by smoke and mirrors.
5
krc
2023 Feb 4, 9:07am
This is why at some point SS benefits will be means tested. It is just another wealth redistribution tool.
6
clambo
2023 Feb 4, 9:13am
I am vehemently against Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) to people receiving money today.
However, I also realize that the government is distributing wealth DOWN to the low wage people; 57% of people pay no income tax.
Want to fight back? Get a Health Savings Account and put Capital Appreciation mutual funds in the account. Fidelity has ones easy to set up.
Get a Roth IRA and max it out.
However, I also realize that the government is distributing wealth DOWN to the low wage people; 57% of people pay no income tax.
Want to fight back? Get a Health Savings Account and put Capital Appreciation mutual funds in the account. Fidelity has ones easy to set up.
Get a Roth IRA and max it out.
7
krc
2023 Feb 4, 9:31am
@Chambo - how does that "fight back?" I don't get it - you can't escape the SS tax if you are a w2 worker for sure, and you need to pay even if self employed.
We are stuck with SS for the reasons pointed out in the link.
We are stuck with SS for the reasons pointed out in the link.
8
clambo
2023 Feb 4, 10:19am
Krc, you're correct, you're stuck with paying SS taxes.
But if you have a big enough Roth you can have income but not be taxed on some of it.
But if you have a big enough Roth you can have income but not be taxed on some of it.
9
krc
2023 Feb 4, 12:33pm
I am expecting that at some point 401k/IRAs will also be means tested at distribution time, or some sort of "extra" tax when pulling funds.
You have to realize that only about 40% of workers contribute to a 401k - so if you include non-workers and those with no 401k, there is a substantial voting majority that could change the direction of these saving plans. Sometimes I think I should just only contribute up to any matching, and just pay taxes now and not be so deep into a 401k.
But the benefits of pre-tax contributions is hard to pass up.
You have to realize that only about 40% of workers contribute to a 401k - so if you include non-workers and those with no 401k, there is a substantial voting majority that could change the direction of these saving plans. Sometimes I think I should just only contribute up to any matching, and just pay taxes now and not be so deep into a 401k.
But the benefits of pre-tax contributions is hard to pass up.
10
just_passing_through
2023 Feb 4, 12:52pm
just_passing_through
2023 Feb 4, 12:52pm
clambo says
This is what I was going to say...
clambo says
Because you said that, but apparently you know that you can make as much as you want in a Roth and it's invisible to SS. I suppose it's possible for laws to change but it's also possible I'd converted it to gold and lost it in an unfortunate boating accident.
Get a Roth IRA and max it out.
This is what I was going to say...
clambo says
The funny thing is if you have other investments, you end up paying social security back in April
Because you said that, but apparently you know that you can make as much as you want in a Roth and it's invisible to SS. I suppose it's possible for laws to change but it's also possible I'd converted it to gold and lost it in an unfortunate boating accident.
11
Ceffer
2023 Feb 4, 2:15pm
Ceffer
2023 Feb 4, 2:15pm
I did the Monte Carlo thing with Roth. The way you come out ahead in the long run is if you have a significantly larger tax burden in the future than when you paid into the Roth, and if your Roth investments do very well. However, your tax burden could decrease if your are drawing down your money in small amounts from the savings at lower rates, anyway. It is kind of a zero sum game that gives the government more tax money now for deferred maybe?? benefits later. Long run for a short slide. I wouldn't put it into a Roth until you have funded other tax deferred retirement resources to the max.
12
porkchopXpress
2023 Feb 4, 2:24pm
porkchopXpress
2023 Feb 4, 2:24pm
Ceffer says
I agree with this. There's been such a push for Roth Roth Roth and I don't think it's the sweetheart deal people think it is vs tax-deductible. If I'm making more money now and have greater liabilities and expenses, save the money on taxes now. When I retire, I should have my house paid off, kids are gone and on their own, and my expenses should be a LOT lower thereby requiring less income to live, which means lower taxes. By all means though, do both if you can.
I did the Monte Carlo thing with Roth. The way you come out ahead in the long run is if you have a significantly larger tax burden in the future than when you paid into the Roth, and if your Roth investments do very well. However, your tax burden could decrease if your are drawing down your money in small amounts from the savings at lower rates, anyway. It is kind of a zero sum game that gives the government more tax money now for deferred maybe?? benefits later. Long run for a short slide. I wouldn't put it into a Roth until you have funded other tax deferred retirement resources to the max.
13
just_passing_through
2023 Feb 4, 2:29pm
just_passing_through
2023 Feb 4, 2:29pm
I do roth, 401k and hsa (and espp and other investments like real estate, non-retirement brokerage accounts etc.).
My plan is to eventually rollover the 401K to the roth, in small bits if possible. I think there is an age cutoff or something like you still need to be a W2 wage slave to rollover so I may need to rethink that.
Now I'm basically doing catchup on the roth. I've dumped 100% of my paycheck into roth, 401K, hsa and espp for nearly 2 years (however I still get smaller paychecks due to max contribution limits).
Trying to get at least 500K in my roth so I can poke fun at my bro-in-law who already has that in a 401K. I'm still short about 100K but closing in quickly.
My plan is to eventually rollover the 401K to the roth, in small bits if possible. I think there is an age cutoff or something like you still need to be a W2 wage slave to rollover so I may need to rethink that.
Now I'm basically doing catchup on the roth. I've dumped 100% of my paycheck into roth, 401K, hsa and espp for nearly 2 years (however I still get smaller paychecks due to max contribution limits).
Trying to get at least 500K in my roth so I can poke fun at my bro-in-law who already has that in a 401K. I'm still short about 100K but closing in quickly.
14
Misc
2023 Feb 6, 9:19pm
It is possible for an individual to "save" money, but it is impossible for a society to do so.
At the societal level all investment plans become ponzi schemes.
Stocks, bonds, commodities, dollars --- everything works well when society is putting its faith into those instruments, but the value collapses when society, as a whole, tries to redeem more than it puts in.
At the societal level all investment plans become ponzi schemes.
Stocks, bonds, commodities, dollars --- everything works well when society is putting its faith into those instruments, but the value collapses when society, as a whole, tries to redeem more than it puts in.
Below is a very realistic, brief summary of 'Social Security.' It's just another example, among many, that illustrates the utter ineptitude of the Federal Government. If nothing else, you'll know something that not 1 in 100 Americans know anything about!
Social Security Taxes Aren't "Your" Money ... by Ryan McMaken of the Mises Institute
https://mises.org/wire/social-security-taxes-arent-your-money