patrick.net

RayAmerica says

Prior to the Great Depression, a very high percentage of 'homeowners' actually had their home paid off. Part of the reason for that was that home mortgages were amortized for a period of 7 years, which of course meant that if you made all of your payments for those 7 years, your home would be free and clear of all debt. You actually OWNED your home.

i remember when i was a young man, a girl asked me at a party if it was true that I owned my house. I said NO, the bank owns it, i just make payments on it..she walked away. LOL...i dodged a bullet

Misc says

The 9000 banks that failed during the Great Depression did so when the dollar was convertible to gold.

Funny thing, they were flourishing prior to 1913. If trend had continued without a new central bank, the NY banks would have gone out of business. The Great Depression was caused by government policies, NOT the stock crash as people who don't study history claim. Of course this all benefited the central bank, and it's NY owners. But forget about all of that, and try blaming gold right?

RWSGFY says

I's wager that with modern metallurgy it won't be hard to create a silver-plated coin which will weight exactly the same as the real one and be cheaper to make. Besides, isn't there a natural variation in the weight of old coins due to wear?

Alchemists have tried for centuries. If it's so easy, I'm sure you can find many examples. If not, may want to read up on that subject a little more. Interestingly, alchemy has always had very close ties with Satanism...

RWSGFY says

And yet, if we compare ourselves with our fathers, grandfathers and grand grand fathers are most of us really impoverished compared to them?

Most of them grew their own food, had farms, owned land. And when it comes to health, not even comparable unless you go back to the Dark Ages. In quantity, and quality of life, we are losing. But maybe some of you are more Bread and circus's types? As long as your entertained, you will continue to Eat Ze Bugs.

Misc says

Still today, a large percentage of people have their houses paid off. It is about 40%. It is about 33% of homeowners with no mortgage in California.

You never provide sources for any of your stats, guessing because they all come from government websites? You definitely haven't accounted for people who borrow against the value their home after paying off, which really means, they return to being debtors, not owners. I can see many examples where I live outside the city. People who have multiple cars, toys, etc sitting outside their homes, where they've lived for at least 20 years. This isn't a wealthy area. They just bought when no one was here, and have borrowed against inflationary home values, thinking things won't change. When they do, they'll lose everything. If the average American has no savings, lives check to check, and has debt, how the FUCK would they all have their homes paid off!?

NuttBoxer says

Misc says

The 9000 banks that failed during the Great Depression did so when the dollar was convertible to gold.

Funny thing, they were flourishing prior to 1913. If trend had continued without a new central bank, the NY banks would have gone out of business. The Great Depression was caused by government policies, NOT the stock crash as people who don't study history claim. Of course this all benefited the central bank, and it's NY owners. But forget about all of that, and try blaming gold right?

They were not flourishing. They were going through their boom and bust cycles. There was a time when the banks went bust, they hung the bankers.

Here's a bust you can read up on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873

NuttBoxer says

Misc says

Still today, a large percentage of people have their houses paid off. It is about 40%. It is about 33% of homeowners with no mortgage in California.

You never provide sources for any of your stats, guessing because they all come from government websites? You definitely haven't accounted for people who borrow against the value their home after paying off, which really means, they return to being debtors, not owners. I can see many examples where I live outside the city. People who have multiple cars, toys, etc sitting outside their homes, where they've lived for at least 20 years. This isn't a wealthy area. They just bought when no one was here, and have borrowed against inflationary home values, thinking things won't change. When they do, they'll lose everything. If the average American has no savings, lives check to check, and has debt, how the FUCK would they al...

It takes less than 15 seconds to run a check. Here is a google search that lists many sources.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+homeowners+have+no+mortgage&sxsrf=AJOqlzWdLUMcixrS9VZXv_j7b60rJd2C7g%3A1677015056225&source=hp&ei=EDj1Y8e3C8e7kPIPysmhEA&iflsig=AK50M_UAAAAAY_VGIAcadkjD-tyAa2dERWera-zQIGuF&oq=what+percentage+of+home&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYAzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6BwgjEOoCECc6BAgjECc6BQgAEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToOCC4QgAQQsQMQxwEQ0QM6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOgQIABBDOggIABCxAxCDAToNCAAQgAQQsQMQgwEQCjoHCAAQgAQQCjoKCAAQgAQQRhD7AVDkE1i_emC3jgFoAXAAeACAAV-IAb8MkgECMjOYAQCgAQGwAQo&sclient=gws-wiz

NuttBoxer says

Misc says

Still today, a large percentage of people have their houses paid off. It is about 40%. It is about 33% of homeowners with no mortgage in California.

You never provide sources for any of your stats, guessing because they all come from government websites? You definitely haven't accounted for people who borrow against the value their home after paying off, which really means, they return to being debtors, not owners. I can see many examples where I live outside the city. People who have multiple cars, toys, etc sitting outside their homes, where they've lived for at least 20 years. This isn't a wealthy area. They just bought when no one was here, and have borrowed against inflationary home values, thinking things won't change. When they do, they'll lose everything. If the average American has no savings, lives check to check, and has debt, how the FUCK would they al...

You have been reading the mainstream propaganda about Americans finances. While it is true that the vast majority of renters have little financial assets. Homeowners have put about $15 trillion dollars set aside in cash (not stocks or bonds or bitcoin ---- cash). They have the other financial assets as well. Yes, with a lot of them having a mortgage free home.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-30/americans-added-4-2-trillion-in-pandemic-savings-skewed-to-rich

NuttBoxer says

RWSGFY says

And yet, if we compare ourselves with our fathers, grandfathers and grand grand fathers are most of us really impoverished compared to them?

Most of them grew their own food, had farms, owned land. And when it comes to health, not even comparable unless you go back to the Dark Ages. In quantity, and quality of life, we are losing. But maybe some of you are more Bread and circus's types? As long as your entertained, you will continue to Eat Ze Bugs.

They also were tied to their land and never ventured farther away from it than next regional town, if that. I do have farmers in family on the father's side so I know what I'm talking about. As for health: I don't perceive much difference between my health and my father's health at my age (except he went through a bout of TB 10 years prior and I hand't). One generation before that TB would've been a death sentence, BTW, so don't really have to venture into "ze dark ages" to feel some positive difference.

Can't comment on the health of grandfathers - both were professional army officers and KIA at younger age that I'm now - but from the wealth POV I'm definitely head and shoulders above what they had at the same age.

Then there's the issue of child mortality 3-4 generations ago... How many kids tge average rural family had and how many made it to adulthood. The ratio is not 1:1, far from it.

Misc says

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873

Yeah, that happened when we moved off the silver standard. Contrary to popular belief, silver is what matters most, as that's what's used for every day transactions, not gold.
On the banks busting, you are lying, or ignorant of history yet again:
"In 1910, the number of banks in the United States was growing at a phenomenal rate. In fact, it had more than doubled to over twenty thousand in just the previous ten years. Furthermore, most of them were springing up in the South and West, causing the New York banks to suffer a steady decline in market share. Almost all banks in the 1880s were national banks, which means they were chartered by the federal government. Generally, they were located in the big cities, and were allowed by law to issue their own currency in the form of bank notes. Even as early as 1896, however, the number of non-national banks had grown to sixty-one per cent, and they already held fifty-four per cent of the country's total banking deposits. by 1913, when the Federal Resrve Act was passed, those number were seventy-one per cent non-national banks holding fifty-seven per cent of the deposits. In the eyes of those duck hunters from New York, this was a trend that simply had to be reversed."
(Griffin pg12, citation for Kolko, The Triumph of Conservatism p140).

Misc says

It takes less than 15 seconds to run a check. Here is a google search that lists many sources.

Ahh, google. Your self-imposed blinders are coming to light. What I see is not an increase in ownership, but in debt. The fact that your search equates home-owners with mortgage payers shows how convoluted this concept has become under central banking. If you look here, this person also cites a high percentage of ownership, but when you scroll down, he clearly attributes the rise to the invention of the 30 year mortgage, i.e. allowing people to take on more debt, not more ownership:
https://dqydj.com/historical-homeownership-rate-united-states/

So using 40% as a baseline, and attributing the 20% increase to debt, you can see ownership at best has remained steady for 100 years, but in all likelihood has significantly decreased, along with the size of the land owned by individuals. Even google will tell you we have record debt at all levels of society. Yet you continue to persist in the face of these facts that somehow we only have debt in other areas of our lives, not in housing...

Read the articles. They clearly state the percent of homeowners without a mortgage is about 40%. It varies a little from source to source. I believe there were over 20 different sources.

RWSGFY says

They also were tied to their land and never ventured farther away from it than next regional town, if that.

And their family lived close by, and they knew their neighbors, and they had little debt. I've been to cemetaries and seen people routinely live to the same age they do now, in the 19th century.

RWSGFY says

One generation before that TB would've been a death sentence, BTW, so don't really have to venture into "ze dark ages" to feel some positive difference.

Now it's cancer, diabetes, alzeimers, pills, doctors, repeat. Not disputing the improvements in waste disposal in cities, where these epidemics occurred. Just saying at best we live to the same age, but when you factor in quality, we may as well have died 10 years prior.

RWSGFY says

Then there's the issue of child mortality 3-4 generations ago... How many kids tge average rural family had and how many made it to adulthood. The ratio is not 1:1, far from it.

I have an uncle who died at birth, or shortly after. But what they didn't have back then, was rampant autism. And child mortality, especially if you birth in a hospital, has dramatically increased in this country. We have one of the worst rates in the known world.

Like you, I'm doing better than my ancestors I'm familiar with, but the downhill trend started in their lifetime, with the mass introduction of poisons, and industrial food in the 20th century. I'm ok with the reality that things were better before, and are worse now. But that's because I'm working to change that in my own family. Accepting reality isn't giving up, it's the first step to making a change for the better.

Misc says

Read the articles. They clearly state the percent of homeowners without a mortgage is about 40%. It varies a little from source to source. I believe there were over 20 different sources.

NuttBoxer says

So using 40% as a baseline, and attributing the 20% increase to debt, you can see ownership at best has remained steady for 100 years, but in all likelihood has significantly decreased, along with the size of the land owned by individuals. Even google will tell you we have record debt at all levels of society. Yet you continue to persist in the face of these facts that somehow we only have debt in other areas of our lives, not in housing...

Yes, we have the highest amount of mortgage debt on record. It is mostly fixed rate with the majority about 3%. With the inflation rate above that level, wage increases increase the affordability.

We also have the highest number of houses without a mortgage. Something you have been denying.

You seem to think that Americans are in financial straights, but American households have near record amounts of cash, and other financial assets.

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/average-net-worth-by-age

cisTits says

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

What? In cash or t-bills?

R/E is only worth what it can be liquidated for. Stocks are far more liquid.

All assets less all liabilities.

US households are waiting for government fuckery that's why they hold $15 trillion in cash --- not stock or bonds or bitcoin ---- cash

As far as those Central bankers trying to enslave everyone, they are going about it in government fashion. The largest holders of those sub 3% mortgages is the Federal Reserve. SO with inflation running about 8% and wages going up about 7% they are taking a loss on those holdings of mortgages, and treasuries each and every year.

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/18/fed-mortgage-portfolio

Misc says

As far as those Central bankers trying to enslave everyone, they are going about it in government fashion. The largest holders of those sub 3% mortgages is the Federal Reserve. SO with inflation running about 8% and wages going up about 7% they are taking a loss on those holdings of mortgages, and treasuries each and every year.

The Fed is collecting interest on money that THEY created out of thin air. When the economy collapses, and massive numbers of people (even more than in 2007/2008) losing their homes, who do you think will own those properties? Maybe that's the plan all along and what's meant by the WEF's claim that you will own nothing, and be happy?

The Fed also charges fees to the Treasury on all the money that is created, precisely why the Fed loves deficit spending. The more the Government increases the national debt, the more money made by the Fed.

Also, for years, all of the central banks of the world have been buying huge amounts of gold and silver ... all with the fake money that they have created. While over 300 currencies have failed in history, gold and silver has never been worthless. The bankers know this, and that's why they are hoarding these ancient metals.

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

Your source?

RayAmerica says

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

Your source?

Listed in comment #64

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

'Averages' are EXTREMELY misleading. Here's why:

Let's say you have the following statistics derived from a group regarding their net wealth:

1. 82,000
2. 125,000
3. 98,000
4. 32,000
5. - 240,000
6. 875,000
7. 4,500,000
8. 1,250,000
9. 3,000,000

In the above scenario, the AVERAGE net worth of this group would be $1,080,000 ... a VERY misleading statistic.

One more thing; 'Nerdwallet' is hardly a source that I would go to if I wanted accurate statistics.

cisTits says

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

What? In cash or t-bills?

R/E is only worth what it can be liquidated for. Stocks are far more liquid.

cisTits says

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

What? In cash or t-bills?

R/E is only worth what it can be liquidated for. Stocks are far more liquid.

39 and I have $1M in liquid assets. Real estate puts me higher and not included in that number.

You're either a have or have not. People can be angry about the people that made it. NOTHING prevented anyone in this country from making it. Nothing is preventing me from losing it all. So much excuse making from people that didn't make it though. Excuses about the financial system. Learn the damn game. The road map is out there for anyone with a working brain.

So sick of people pointing the finger at other people that figured it out. It's sales and business. That's our economy. If you can't do either you WILL be a middle of the road person and potentially a loser. I have people I consider friends that are in this conundrum of inadequacy and they just blame others or make shit up. Your thumb exists. Maybe point it back at yourself.

Put our head on the pillow and ask what didn't I do. Not what someone else did or didn't do. What did I DO!

RayAmerica says

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

'Averages' are EXTREMELY misleading. Here's why:

Let's say you have the following statistics derived from a group regarding their net wealth:

1. 82,000
2. 125,000
3. 98,000
4. 32,000
5. - 240,000
6. 875,000
7. 4,500,000
8. 1,250,000
9. 3,000,000

In the above scenario, the AVERAGE net worth of this group would be $1,080,000 ... a VERY misleading statistic.

One more thing; 'Nerdwallet' is hardly a source that I would go to if I wanted accurate statistics.

Yes, it's misleading because it takes into account the 21.3% of the population on government social services that have nothing. Real Americans that worked their 45 years, bought a home and saved a little are way above the $1 million, and this doesn't include any pensions they may have. Regular folks end up quite well off.

Misc says

it's misleading because it takes into account the 21.3% of the population on government social services that have nothing.

This is what CNBC recently reported: "63% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck — including nearly half of six-figure earners. With persistent inflation eroding wage gains, the number of Americans living paycheck to paycheck is near a historic high, according to a recent report.Oct 24, 2022"

Wolf Street website reported about credit card balances and delinquencies are increasing. The times are tough for most who are not as fortunate as the "Regular folks end up quite well" with +$500,000 equity in a home, a pension, etc.. Walmart just warned 2023 is going to be a tough year.

.

Walmart warned that 2023 is going to be a tough year because the extra free money given to those on social benefits just ended. With Covid, those families on food stamps (now known as SNAP) got an extra $95 per month per household. With 21.3% of households on social benefits that gave Walmart (yes, the Waltons are the richest family in America) record profits because Walmart is the largest grocer in America.

Yes, much of Covid aid was just free money to the rich.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/temporary-pandemic-snap-benefits-will-end-in-remaining-35-states-in-march

Those on Medicaid were not dropped from the program even if their income rose above the threshhold because of Covid. This extra source of free money to the healthcare industry is likewise ending over the course of this year.

The end of these free money giveaways should help bring down inflation for the regular folk.

Misc says

The end of these free money giveaways should help bring down inflation for the regular folk.

I hope so, and the economy increases productivity and innovation such as get rid of the dead weight workers like the blue hairs.

.........

Misc says

record profits because Walmart is the largest grocer in America

I looked at Walmart's stock chart and its real gain is nearly 0% since February 2020 based on about 18% inflation from February 2020 to present day. Net income was $6.7 billion in 2019 and $13.7 billion in 2022 :-/

Misc says

wage increases increase the affordability.

How does that work for the unemployed? And it's not true for the employed either. I can't find many jobs in my field that will pay what I'm getting now. Most pay $20k less, and ask for more work than what I have to do. Wages have fallen behind inflation for years now, which hits people hardest in the areas we're starting to see in the past year. Transportation, utilities, food.

Misc says

We also have the highest number of houses without a mortgage. Something you have been denying.

NuttBoxer says

So using 40% as a baseline, and attributing the 20% increase to debt, you can see ownership at best has remained steady for 100 years, but in all likelihood has significantly decreased, along with the size of the land owned by individuals.

You mean dis-proving...

Misc says

You seem to think that Americans are in financial straights, but American households have near record amounts of cash, and other financial assets.

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

Calculated for inflation..? Of course not. That's actually true for us, but not anyone else that we know. And you deliberately poached the average instead of the median to try and sound right. What we know for sure is the disparity between the rich and the rest has never been greater, which the average you attempt to lie about includes. What the fuck man, you think you post a link I won't read it? Median is just over $100k. Further if you remove the inflated housing prices most people are using to stay in the black, you would end up with a negative net worth for majority of households.

Misc says

cisTits says

Misc says

The average net wealth of US families aged 55-75 is over $1 million. ---- Hardly broke.

What? In cash or t-bills?

R/E is only worth what it can be liquidated for. Stocks are far more liquid.

All assets less all liabilities.

US households are waiting for government fuckery that's why they hold $15 trillion in cash --- not stock or bonds or bitcoin ---- cash

@cisTits read the article, he's using the average that includes the billionaire's, not the median.

Looks like you missed this part.

Yes, it's misleading because it takes into account the 21.3% of the population on government social services that have nothing. Real Americans that worked their 45 years, bought a home and saved a little are way above the $1 million, and this doesn't include any pensions they may have. Regular folks end up quite well off.

Misc says

As far as those Central bankers trying to enslave everyone, they are going about it in government fashion. The largest holders of those sub 3% mortgages is the Federal Reserve. SO with inflation running about 8% and wages going up about 7% they are taking a loss on those holdings of mortgages, and treasuries each and every year.

They control the printing presses, it doesn't matter for them. You don't seem to understand the basics of inflation. If I inflate the money supply 97%, but I own 5% of that, I'll still have something. But the masses, who hold small fractions of percentages of the total will be wiped out. In a war of attrition, the one on the lever can always outlast the rest, and pick up real assets for pennies on the dollar, as they have during every bust.

And if they convert everyone to CDBC's, you think that's going to be 1-1 conversion rate? They'll reset us all to whatever they want, and themselves to whatever they want. The key to this system is greed. Inflation makes people like you think they can get something for nothing, so you look the other way as they impoverish those on the lowest rungs, because hey, you're still doing ok. But make no mistake, you're willing participation makes you just as responsible for what happens to those people. And some day you will have to face that reckoning, and it will not be pleasant.

If we marked to market the Fed's balance sheet, it ends up about a negative $3 trillion.

That is a $3 trillion gain for America's households and a loss of that amount for the bankers. Right now it looks like they are government competent not anything to worry about.

Misc says

Yes, it's misleading because it takes into account the 21.3% of the population on government social services that have nothing.

Again attempting to cherry pick to not look like a liar? What I read was don't use the average, because the have's skew it way more than the have-nots. When they say greatest disparity that doesn't just mean a bunch of people are poorer, it means a bunch of people are much, MUCH richer. And the poorer side doesn't help your case, not - one - bit..

Misc says

Real Americans that worked their 45 years, bought a home and saved a little are way above the $1 million, and this doesn't include any pensions they may have. Regular folks end up quite well off.

I don't know a single person like that. But I do know people are trying to offload homes in my area for 1-2 million that are worth $400k, at best. You have no concept of real wealth, because you either never had to work hard, don't value your health, don't have kids, or aren't very close to your family. When this system implodes, all that make believe disappears, and what's left you'll be lucky if anyone wants it.

The median (since you seem to like that better) house price is $392k. Since 40% have their house paid off (a higher percent the older you are), that doesn't seem like much of a stretch to have saved $600k in financial assets over 45 years. Again this doesn't include any pensions they may have.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/272776/median-price-of-existing-homes-in-the-united-states-from-2011/#:~:text=In%20the%20third%20quarter%20of,by%20the%20end%20of%202023.

Misc says

That is a $3 trillion gain for America's households and a loss of that amount for the bankers.

But the national debt is at a record high, and the average debt for every American is also at a record. You think the central bank will pay back that treasury debt? No way! It comes from us in taxes, as we produce the only real value in this system, or time. But that's never going to pay it back, in the end a debt jubilee, via implosion, or intentional reset is how it will unwind. And if they are able to control it to their liking, as I said, you will get pennies on the dollar for what you own, if it's not seized to pay back your debts. And those pennies will come with tracking chips and slavery.

They could just as easily construct a debt jubilee by cancelling the Treasury debt the Fed holds. That's the power of having a fiat currency.

Misc says

The median (since you seem to like that better) house price is $392k. Since 40% have their house paid off, that doesn't seem like much of a stretch to have saved $600k in financial assets over 45 years. Again this doesn't include any pensions they may have.

Glad to see you've abandoned your false narrative with the first link. So, $392k is still at the top of an imploding market, house sales have dropped several months in a row now. Will continue until prices reflect current interest rates, which will keep rising regardless of what the Fed does, because they do not control them, merely attempt to manage/manipulate. So adjusted average is closer to $100k, and I'm being generous.
Now that's 40% of all homeowners, not your 45 year demographic, so let's drop that down to say 10%. Now let's look at the financial picture over the last 45 years.

Going back to 1978. So you have the financial bust of the late 70's, no savings yet. Now we're at the end of the 80's, some savings starting to develop, but here comes the SnL scandal, savings take a hit again. Ok, we're at the end of the 90's, we've gotten smarter, but here comes the dot com bust, another hit to savings. Now it's 2006 and prices will never go down patnetters!! Whoops, huge drops in stock market, housing market, 401k's wiped out, people unable to retire, starting over AGAIN. Ok, but we'll get that savings together this time, it's 2019, ohh shit, scamdemic, and my business of 40 years, gone. Now my saving's, whatever I scraped together through all those debacles is paying my daily expenses while I pray they raise Social Security benefits so I'm not on the street when I'm 80.

The reason we don't line up, I don't just espouse philosophy, I live what I preach. The socialist/communist/central bank loving Keynes worshipers have never lived their theory's, but they love to say we should. Mises should have been a god to you people, but instead you chose to follow the devil of central banking.

Misc says

They could just as easily construct a debt jubilee by cancelling the Treasury debt the Fed holds. That's the power of having a fiat currency.

Who's gonna trade with us when that happens? Most business's in the US cross borders, what will happen to them? And what about the average person holding bonds as a "safe" investment? The 401k's vested in treasuries? You think all that debt will just unwind consequence free!? Tell me when the fuck that has ever, EVER happened...

The people holding the bonds either directly or through their 401Ks still have them. It is simply the bonds already purchased by the Fed that get cancelled.

Everyone still trades with us like they always have, The US simply has a larger monetary base,

Silver is great. And silver is easily tested, and for a slight premium firms can buy silver and mint coins attesting to weight and purity.

But, the first $1000 of any wage, salary, or contract payment must be made in Silver Metal, not Paper or Digital.

Perhaps you didn't read my comment correctly. I said after 45 years of working. That puts the age of the householder at about 65 years old. Easily old enough to have a paid off house.

The future prices you foresee for homes is radically different from mine. We will see what will come.