patrick.net

Here's some more food for thought: So what if they knew or suspected more than the usual?

The behavior of Hamas was shown.

No more Gaza, Know more Peace. Forget the smart bombs, just carpet bomb and be done with the whole thing, enough of the endless conflict.

After all, if Assad Muh Mighty Lion Daddy could level half of Hama and kill at least 50,000 of them over a month and deport 100,000 more, what's good for the "Poor Misunderstood Syrian Government" is good for Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre

BTW, I'm not so sure Iran and not Qatar or Turkey or Syria. Or all four.

After all the Chief of Hamas lives in a luxury home in Qatar as did Mashal before him. Why not bomb a nice oil terminal there as a friendly message?

By the way, I watched all the ANSWER/IfNotNow/BLM Pro-Pakistine marchers in Philly, Chicago, NYC. All Visa overstays, dual/triple citizens, crossdressers, and antifa.

Patrick says

Like the 9/11 Inside Job, Israel Coincidentally Suffers the Same Intelligence Failures in the Purported Hamas Attack.

What I find is odd is why such a coordinated attack did not include MANPADs or drones. Surly Hamas expected IAF retaliatory attacks, so why no shoulder fired anti-aircraft waiting? The attackers had paragliders, but not drones to hit houses of high politicians or crater a runway?

AmericanKulak says

deport 100,000 more

Gaza is 141 square miles and has a population of about 2.4 million.

I am not sure where you can send a lot of them even if they are not terrorists or unruly type.

Who wants them ? We are taking in most of Central America's and Venezuela's unwanted masses.

Send them to the Sinai peninsula or west of that.

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Now that was quick. We need to go to WAR with Iran (and its allies China & Russia) because a "new report" (the source of which is not named) states that IRAN planned the whole attack.

Is there anyone here other than socal2 that is going to enlist in order to fight in WW III?

CONFIRMED: Iran Planned and 'Green-Lit' Murderous Hamas Attacks on Israel

A new report is shedding light on how Hamas managed to pull off its violent invasion of Israel on Saturday. Possibly thousands are dead in the wake of the Palestinian terror spree, in which women and children were indiscriminately murdered in the streets.

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/10/09/confirmed-iran-planned-and-green-lit-murderous-hamas-attacks-on-israel-n2164840

https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/all-this-death-is-the-fault-of-the?publication_id=82124&post_id=137788966&isFreemail=true&r=6gdz

I see no reason to speculate whether the Hamas offensive was allowed to happen at this time when coming events will show how likely that was. If there’s just a lot of violence and then it goes back to more or less the status quo, Israeli intelligence probably did just massively faceplant and miss extensive preparations for an attack which included training for air and sea assaults. If new agendas are rolled out that wouldn’t have been consented to without the attack, chances are much higher it was allowed; the more far-reaching the agendas, the greater the likelihood.

Reasonable point.

We can get a better idea of whether this attack was encouraged and allowed by what they try to do with it as a result.

https://hiddencomplexity.substack.com/p/the-october-surprise

One point brought up early by a few was the singular level of Intelligence failure, both American and Israeli on not foreseeing this attack. Israel is considered the world's second-largest surveillance state (China being first, America third), and its Intelligence service is known to be among the most advanced on the planet, even superior to America’s capabilities. ...

How did both Intel services miss this ? Of course, the conspiracy comes in, and I am one to indulge in conspiracies from time to time, that the Israeli political elite let this happen so they could have an excuse to decimate Gaza. Another angle is their Prime Minister, suffering protests because of his unpopular choices, let this happen to unite the public under one banner. Nothing moves hearts and minds as the respective of an Israeli 9/11.

ad says

Or they are only competent like our own intel agencies when it comes to spying on their domestic political targets ?

Our intelligence agencies ARE competent. When they commit a crime or a false flag, they always claim incompetence. Everybody in government does this. If this was real incompetence, people would get fired, watch them get promoted instead.

RayAmerica says

Now that was quick. We need to go to WAR with Iran (and its allies China & Russia) because a "new report" (the source of which is not named) states that IRAN planned the whole attack.

Is there anyone here other than socal2 that is going to enlist in order to fight in WW III?

CONFIRMED: Iran Planned and 'Green-Lit' Murderous Hamas Attacks on Israel

A new report is shedding light on how Hamas managed to pull off its violent invasion of Israel on Saturday. Possibly thousands are dead in the wake of the Palestinian terror spree, in which women and children were indiscriminately murdered in the streets.

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/10/09/confirmed-iran-planned-and-green-lit-murderous-hamas-attacks-on-israel-n2164840

We don't need to go to war with Iran.

Israel needs to level Gaza the way Assad leveled Hama. And maybe bomb a Qatari Oil Terminal.

Trivia; GUESS WHO leader of a terrorist org in the news today went to Soleimani's Funeral in person, and lives in Qatar?

ad says

Send them to the Sinai peninsula or west of that.

Egyptians HATE Palestinians. The news forgets to reports about the Egyptian side of the Gaza border, which is three layers of trenches, barbed wire, and cement walls. Egyptians don't just cap off Palestinian tunnels, they flood them.

Hamas sold weapons to ISIS-in-the-Sinai, whose terror attacks cost Egypt big bucks as there are Red Sea Tourist hotels/beaches plus trips to Mount Sinai. Another reason Egypt hates Palestinians.

socal2 says

I guess I'm a "NeoCon" if I'm not cool with Russia's invasion of Ukraine and feral Islamist's rape and murder of innocent Jews at raves and bus stops.

You're a Neocon if you want another stupid fucking war that has nothing to do with the United States, which we will lose, after we spend a few trillion dollars.

THAT'S what a Neocon is.

ad says

I suspect the West will push Zelensky to accept a cease fire and let Russia control Donbas and Crimea. If not, then they'll figure out how to make Zelensky lose in the 2024 election.

No, they will push Zelenskyy to continue this war until there are literally no Ukrainians left to fight.

HeadSet says

What I find is odd is why such a coordinated attack did not include MANPADs or drones. Surly Hamas expected IAF retaliatory attacks, so why no shoulder fired anti-aircraft waiting? The attackers had paragliders, but not drones to hit houses of high politicians or crater a runway?

The did use drones, they attacked an responding Israeli ambulance with one, video of it is circulating. Also I believe Israeli Apaches have been hit with SA-18 Iglas in the not distant past nearby.

socal2 says

FFS - here we go with the conspiracy retardation.

Apparently the thousands of Hamas Jihadis that carried out this sophisticated attack have absolutely no agency and it was all the work of the Joos pulling the strings.

What will be the result of this?

Will Gaza be free, or will Israel bomb the absolute fuck out of them? You're just too naive, and I don't mean you're stupid, I'm sure you're not, you're too trusting though. This is the country that did the Lavon Affair, and has an intelligence agency's whose motto is officially "through deception we will make war".

I bet Israel is going to retake Gaza, and use this event as their justification. Israel will, in time, take over Gaza and the West Bank entirely. Maybe there will be a few reservations for the Palestinians. I knew this in 2000. Israeli politicians will say, in English, they want a 2 state solution, but they never tell their population that.

The ENTIRE border of the Gaza strip is 32 miles. I don't believe every inch isn't watched.

AmericanKulak says

The CIA and NSA didn't see the Indian bomb coming. Intel Agencies make mistakes. Hamas is always training with firearms. They might have had a clue something was in the works, but not the attacks against the many 10s of kilometers of simple barbed wire with dozers. The usual parading for the cameras around the concrete walls and gate areas.

I don't trust the CIA or NSA to give accurate information to the public, ever. They lie to Congress all the fucking time, they certainly lie to the public.

NO SUPPORT FOR CORRUPT ISRAEL!!!! NATANIAHU IS LITERALLY INDICTED IN MULTIPLE CORRUPTION CASES!!!!

https://aillarionov-livejournal-com.translate.goog/1391390.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

richwicks says

No, they will push Zelenskyy to continue this war until there are literally no Ukrainians left to fight.

I disagree as Biden needs to show he brought peace to Ukraine and had a major foreign policy accomplishment leading to his re election bid.

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ad says

I disagree as Biden needs to show he brought peace to Ukraine and had a major foreign policy accomplishment leading to his re election bid.

No, the election was stolen last time. It doesn't matter what Biden does. Whoever is our next president will be another puppet. I bet it's DeSantis and many will celebrate it, and he will be just as worthless and useless as Biden is.

ad says

I disagree as Biden needs to show he brought peace to Ukraine and had a major foreign policy accomplishment leading to his re election bid.

.

If this is the case why is he dragging his feet on supplying necessary weapons? He was blocking transfer of old Soviet jets for a whole year , waffling on tanks till the end of 2022 when he agreed to supply whopping 31 of them (a battalion worth?) and they are still not there 10 months later, still playing stupid on long-range tac missiles (ATACMS), etc., etc. The guy is signalling his loser attitude at every turn. It almost looks like he's playing for the other team. Which he might taking into account these $35M ftom Baturina and whatever he got from Zlochevsky who is a known pro-Moscow operative.

Impossible for Mossad to fuck up?

Yom Kippur, 1973. The closest Israel ever got to being obliterated after establishment. Near complete surprise in the scale and style of attack on the Israeli side. Or I could mention Hezbollah's anti-tank capabilities during the last intervention in both tactics and (Russian) armament.

Reasons for Hamas to attack now:

1. Normalization protocol being finalized in Saudi Arabia
2. Qatar being drawn back into the GCC Fold.
3. Both #1 and #2 are threatening developments for both Iran and especially Palistan.

Also it's looking like a lot of the militants were Palistani Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

RWSGFY says

The guy is signalling his loser attitude at every turn

I think Biden has made a deal with the Kremlin. I heard there were meeting between the USA and Kremlin in Pakistan recently.

So a lot of what you see is because of Biden wanting to unwind the Ukraine war by next spring.

And the Dems need economic recovery or a prosperous economy at least 3 months going into the November 2024 election.

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ad says

And the Dems need economic recovery or a prosperous economy at least 3 months going into the November 2024 election.

Good call.

Desperate to kiss Iranian ass in hopes of adding their oil to the US Market, also.

AmericanKulak says

Desperate to kiss Iranian ass in hopes of adding their oil to the US Market, also.

No, oil is a fungible commodity.

It doesn't matter where it comes from.

Pundit Juan O Savin has taken the view that the Israeli 'distraction' is to draw attention away from further revelations coming up in Congress about China and a much broader range of the political crime families than just Biden. The six billion from Biden Actor Stable to Iran was one criminal enterprise reimbursing another criminal enterprise ahead of time as compensation for the Hamas attack to be executed on Israel. So, Biden Actor Stable (unelected and unidentified Senior Executive Service, originally set up by Bush Nazis) and the Globalistas (aka including Israeli leadership elements) wanted the mess to unfold, with the Israeli population at least a partial sacrificial lamb.

He claims that the detection systems of Israel were neutralized by a technology that is relatively low tech, but highly effective, at preventing ground radar and vibration detectors from working properly. He wasn't specific as to the technology, but said it had been demonstrated to Trump and Congress in the past, but not glamorous enough for major funding. He suggested Israel was not prepared for it (or possibly complicit in allowing it?). Anyway, more cud for the Woosters to chew on.

richwicks says

It doesn't matter where it comes from.

Then why do US refiners take oil from Venezuela, East Siberia, Mexico and Alberta while we export most of the oil we drill here?

Answer: Not all oil is the same. The sweet crude we produce can't be refined on our refineries that were built to take in sour crude.

richwicks says

Whoever is our next president will be another puppet. I bet it's DeSantis

I hope Dasantis wins also and Matt Gaetz becomes my governor

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PedoIwog says

Then why do US refiners take oil from Venezuela, East Siberia, Mexico and Alberta while we export most of the oil we drill here?

There's different types of crude oil. Venezuela I know makes "sour crude" which is more like tar than oil. There are different types of oil, and THOSE markets are a bit independent of the others because they take different refinement processes, but it doesn't matter where you get your light sweet crude from, it's basically the same.

PedoIwog says

Answer: Not all oil is the same. The sweet crude we produce can't be refined on our refineries that were built to take in sour crude.

Yep, totally correct, but if light sweet crude gets too expensive, we'll just move to another grade.

richwicks says

No, oil is a fungible commodity.

It doesn't matter where it comes from.

But increasing the supply lowers the price, which was my point.

and now this .... leaking gas pipeline between Finland and Estonia may take months to fix

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/headlines/2622758-repairing-finland-estonia-gas-pipeline-may-take-months-operator-says

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AmericanKulak says

But increasing the supply lowers the price, which was my point.

Supply isn't changed by sanctions, it just re-routes where the energy is delivered. India and China are more than happy to accept Russian energy and if it's a tiny bit cheaper to get from Russia, they just use arbitrage to put it onto the market.

There's this bizarre idea that "Russia needs MONEY" - why? They have resources. What Russia really needs is manufacturing. Their 70 years of communism really mixed them up.

What the US also needs is manufacturing. Without it, we're dependent on places like China to make all our crap. If we get into a scuffle with them, that won't be good.

Colonel Richard Kemp, the former commander of the British military forces in Afghanistan, spoke to Israel National News - Arutz Sheva on Sunday about the Hamas-launched war on Israel in which over 350 people have been murdered so far and stated that Russia's hand can be seen in the attack in addition to the hand of Iran.

The attack began with a coordinated breach of the Gaza border fence at multiple locations accompanied by the firing of thousands of rockets into southern Israel, allowing squads of terrorists to penetrate into Israel and attack numerous communities and cities in southern Israel in the early morning. Israel was caught completely off-guard by the assault, representing a massive intelligence failure.

"I have no doubt that questions about this intelligence failure are being addressed now in the Israeli government," Col. Kemp said of the failure to predict and stop the deadly Hamas onslaught. "I am sure there will be a full inquiry when the current situation is stabilized. Until then we can only speculate. This attack has been called Israel’s 9/11 by some people, or Israel’s Pearl Harbor, both of which were also accompanied by tragic intelligence failure."

He stated that Iran and Russia were behind the attack which was, according to him, "too complex for Gaza terrorists to pull off on their own."

"The specific date was chosen by the Palestinian terrorists to take advantage of the Israeli holiday period, very much like the Yom Kippur War that began around the same time in 1973. But the strategic context is threefold. First, Iran’s hand was behind this attack. They fund, arm, and direct Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Iran is dedicated to the annihilation of the Jewish State as their leaders have repeated again and again.

He explained: "Second, Russia would have also been behind this attack. Moscow and Tehran are close allies who have cooperated over the mass murder of civilians in the Ukraine war, for which Iran has supplied killer drones. Leaders of Islamic Jihad and Hamas have visited Moscow in the last few months meeting senior Russian government officials. Russia’s motivation here is to foment instability in the Middle East to distract US political bandwidth as well as resources away from Ukraine."

"Third, in their pursuit of chaos and Iranian hegemony in the Middle East, both Russia and Iran want to disrupt the normalization negotiations between Saudi Arabia and Israel," he said. "It is hard to assess the impact this will have [on the negotiations with Saudi Arabia], but it will certainly complicate negotiations and may even lead to their temporary abandonment."

To the question of how Israel should respond to such a brazen and deadly attack, he responded that "the laws of war on proportionality have no bearing on strategic objectives, only on the conduct of operations where civilian life might be endangered. Israel is well known for its proportionate use of force in defense of its citizens despite the propaganda campaign that suggests otherwise. I think this attack will have changed Israel’s strategic calculus and it will have to inflict unprecedented damage on Hamas’s and Islamic Jihad’s leadership. That may mean a ground operation into Gaza that leads to a long or medium-term military presence on the ground. I think the immediate goal will be to destroy Hamas and Islamic Jihad as viable terrorist bodies."

"As to the hostages, this is perhaps the most difficult challenge Israel faces. Rescuing large numbers of people no doubt dispersed in secure locations around Gaza may well be impossible but I have no doubt the Israeli government, intelligence, and IDF will make every conceivable effort to do so. Perhaps the best hope would be international pressure on the terrorists but these hostages are a prize they will be most unwilling to give up," he said.

"The West must recognize Iran’s and Russia’s hand in this. The US in particular should stop appeasing Iran. Western governments should treat Hamas and Islamic Jihad as their enemies and support Israel in its efforts to destroy them as well as applying their own punitive action against them. Western leaders should speak loudly in support of Israeli military defensive action now and for the long term, working to counter the anti-Israel narrative that will be boosted by Israel’s necessary actions to defend its population, Col. Kemp concluded.

I think of Col Kemp and remember the Troubles.

100s of people, mostly Catholic, disappeared shot in the head into the Bogs - often on false claims of informing by the PIRA. European Court of Human Rights couldn't give a shit, won't have a hearing on it.

IRA man caught with Semtex in his car trunk, taken to the H-Block and made to stand in a chilly corner in his underpants for a few hours until he talks a few times, oh Britain is so vile and evil, 20 demerits from the ECHR!

Why? Who did what. Those damned evil British or those cute little rascals in the PIRA.

Vietnam another great example. US horrible for an unguided rocket maiming a civilian, VC fine for torturing a suspected tout for days before killing him slowly and painfully with 1000 cuts.

Euroleftoids, "Antiwar" types, and "Pacifists" are usually quite biased.

richwicks says

Yep, totally correct, but if light sweet crude gets too expensive, we'll just move to another grade.

Yeah. The bitch is that it costs a lot in both $$$$ and downtime to refurbish/retool a refinery to do that. Esp with the older refineries like we have.

We need new refinery designs that integrate more easier overhauls each time or are just more poly-blend tolerant in general, then bite the bullet to refurbish these old refineries once.

Russian connection is plausible. Beneath the restraint, the Putin faction are boiling mad at the Globalists, and the Globalists pretty much are Israel.

However, the nominal terrorist groups seem to be ronin blocs. Financed by many, the dirty forks that are cleaned and passed around, the double triple and quadruple agents who make a good living in the ether between politics. Useful tools whenever you want to arouse emotions or create an 'anti' or demand or justify an action or retaliation. The useful, willing frenemy always on ready alert with the appropriate assets who will create the clamor and the din when called upon.

Whatever happened in Israel was a 'major state' action with sophisticated resources and major planning aforethought, not a bunch of crazed ragheads smoking hash and opium and throwing themselves on the barbed wire. Question is, to what extent was it an inside job?

PedoIwog says

Yeah. The bitch is that it costs a lot in both $$$$ and downtime to refurbish/retool a refinery to do that. Esp with the older refineries like we have.

Yeah, that's over my head. I know that a major gripe of the Koch brothers is that they USED to get a lot of heavy sour crude from Venezuela and the refineries they were putting it though couldn't be retooled.

Our real hated of Venezuela isn't about the human rights or even economic system there, it's that some billionaires lost their cash cow there.

richwicks says

Yeah, that's over my head. I know that a major gripe of the Koch brothers is that they USED to get a lot of heavy sour crude from Venezuela and the refineries they were putting it though couldn't be retooled.

And Alberta crude. The Keystone Pipeline wasn't just for transporting Abertan heavy sour to Louisiana for export, but mostly to feed into our existing pipelines to our refineries.

socal2 says

FFS - here we go with the conspiracy retardation.

Apparently the thousands of Hamas Jihadis that carried out this sophisticated attack have absolutely no agency and it was all the work of the Joos pulling the strings.

Just how sophisticated are these Bedouins?

The Israel Gaza thing has no business in this thread. Gaza is an open air prison, and has no access to even water with Israel. The only thing we're talking about here is genocide. Don't believe me? Watch any of the many racist videos of Israeli's calling for the extermination of the people in Gaza.

There seems to be a pattern whereby an 'event' leads to war:

The U. S. battleship Maine is blown up in Havana harbor which directly led to the Spanish-American War.

1914, Franz Ferdinand, Archduke of the Austro-Hungarian empire, and his wife were assassinated by a serbian nationalist in Sarajevo. The European media led the frenzy for revenge, which eventually led to the outbreak of WW I, causing the deaths of over 20 million people.

After the USA provoked the island nation of Japan with a crippling embargo, Japan retaliated with attacks on the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor. Hitler, honoring his commitment to the Tripartite Pact, declares war on America within days. Hence, America immediately enters into a two front war in Europe and in the Pacific. All told, WW II, a war that Churchill claimed could have been easily avoided, ends with approximately 60 million dead.

Congress grants LBJ a war powers act (The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution) after an 'attack' on an American naval ship in the Gulf of Tonkin by the North Vietnamese. Beyond all doubt, the attack never happened, yet, America enters the disaster known as the Viet Nam War. 58,000+ American soldiers are killed, countless others wounded both physically and psychologically.
Hundreds of thousands of innocent Viet Nam civilians are also killed.

Operation Desert Storm/Iraq War. The 15 year old daughter of the Kuwait Ambassador to the USA provides fabricated testimony at an off-sight 'Congressional' hearing led by Rep. Tom Lantos, a Holocaust survivor. Posing as Nurse Nayirah, she tearfully claimed that Iraqi soldiers took babies out of their incubators and watched them die on the floor. Rep. Lantos claimed that this was 'the worst crime since the Holocaust.' Pres. George H. W. Bush, knowing full well that this was a complete lie, nevertheless repeated the babies-incubator story numerous times in speeches leading up to the Gulf War.

9/11 attacks led to the USA & Britain attacking two nations that had NOTHING to do with the crime; Iraq & Afghanistan. In order to help justify war, the NeoCon warmongers came up with the 'weapons of mass destruction' lie. The middle east has been in chaos ever since.

Will the Hamas attacks on Israel lead to a major war, involving the USA & Israel against Iran and its allies China & Russia? That's exactly what the warmongering NeoCons want.