patrick.net

He's right, the US should stay out. No matter what Israel does. It's their conflict.

https://maajidnawaz.substack.com/p/israel-helped-to-found-hamas-and#details

Hamas Took The Bait

Upon the above, what seems likely is that certain psychopaths at Mossad picked up word, and turned a blind eye, to certain other psychopaths at Hamas attacking innocent people inside Israel.

But why would Israel do that? Such a bloody but tactical retreat by Israel allows for Hamas to walk straight into a trap: to inadvertently create a domestic 9/11 moment for Netanyahu to exploit. Hamas just ensured hitherto failing Netanyahu’s political survival, and worse facilitated the Israeli re-invasion of Gaza. Recall that Netanyahu had become a deeply unpopular political pariah inside Israel.




“In the meantime, the anti-Netanyahu protests are on hold. Organisers cancelled Saturday evening’s protests, citing the security situation and voicing support for the army.”

This is how Hamas just walked straight into a trap.

Yes, I do think Hamas was offered the opportunity to butcher Israelis and jumped at the chance. Now they will die, too. Idiots.

Such power moves by Saudi Arabia threatened her rival for Islamic domination in the region, Iran. In this context, and by assuring devastating Israeli retaliation in Gaza, this latest attack by Hamas firmly upsets any Saudi aspirations for leading peace initiatives in the region. With Gaza being bombed to rubble, the Saudis have no choice but to pull out.

Israel is of course set to respond to yesterday’s attacks in fury, by totally destroying Hamas in Gaza and reoccupying it. Facilitating Israel’s reoccupation of Gaza ensures that Saudi plans for regional peace are immediately placed on ice. Iran lives another day.

Of course! Why didn't I immediately see this? It was that evil Putin and those barbarian Russians that were behind this!

BREAKING: Zelensky blames Putin for Hamas attack on Israel

He posted the video to X, with the caption:

"We have data very clearly proving that Russia is interested in inciting war in the Middle East. So that a new source of pain and suffering would erode global unity and exacerbate cleavages and controversies, helping Russia in destroying freedom in Europe.

We can see Russian propagandists gloating. We can see Moscow’s Iranian friends openly extending a helping hand to those who attacked Israel.

All of this represents a much greater threat than the world is currently aware of. The world wars of the past were triggered by local aggressions.

We know how to counter this threat. We have already prepared the necessary steps. And our primary goal is to protect the need for maximum global unity."
https://humanevents.com/2023/10/09/breaking-zelensky-blames-putin-for-hamas-attack-on-israel

So-called "Palestinians" have always been the asset of the KGB. All Pukin cum gurglers gleefully proclaimed that this new crisis takes West's attention and resourses from the Soviet aggression against Ukraine. Now that Zelensky states the obvious they suddenly turn around and abandon their own well-though positions from 2 days ago. The intellectual dishonesty is stunning (no, not really - it's getting pretty predictable and boring).

RWSGFY says

So-called "Palestinians" have always been the asset of the KGB. All Pukin cum gurglers gleefully proclaimed that this new crisis takes West's attention and resourses from the Soviet aggression against Ukraine. Now that Zelensky states the obvious they suddenly turn around and abandon their own well-though positions from 2 days ago. The intellectual dishonesty is stunning (no, not really - it's getting pretty predictable and boring).

The US is going to lose the proxy war, they need an excuse to start a new one. You saw the US do this once already.

Remember the endless covid fear propaganda, once Russia actually went into Ukraine in force, it ended within a week.

Ukraine is on hold. I expect the war to continue for a long time, mostly for money laundering, no real gains or losses in land, but there might be many more deaths. Meanwhile, the US MIGHT be gearing up for war against Iran. The US will just bomb it from the sky, I doubt much infantry will go in.

Ukraine will be like Afghanistan - the war will continue, but our news media won't report on it.

RWSGFY says

So-called "Palestinians" have always been the asset of the KGB. All Pukin cum gurglers gleefully proclaimed that this new crisis takes West's attention and resourses from the Soviet aggression against Ukraine. Now that Zelensky states the obvious they suddenly turn around and abandon their own well-though positions from 2 days ago. The intellectual dishonesty is stunning (no, not really - it's getting pretty predictable and boring).

The rank hypocrisy really is stunning.

So many masks dropping at Patnet over the past year.

The current "moderate" leader of the Palestinian Authority (Arafat's successor) Abbas literally got a PhD from Moscow for Holocaust denial.

socal2 says

The current "moderate" leader of the Palestinian Authority (Arafat's successor) Abbas literally got a PhD from Moscow for Holocaust denial.

@socal2 - Let's see a source for this.

When I read over-the-top stuff like this, I first doubt it, then I put in a minimal amount of research to determine if there's any evidence it's true, then when I don't immediately find evidence, I ask for a source. Perhaps it IS true, but demonstrate it.

I see so much stupid propaganda about the Israeli Palestine conflict, I'm sick of it. All your time is taken up pointing out "errors" if not outright lies.

All this nonsense does is destroy credibility, and all you have left believing the propaganda are dummies that don't put in any effort to know ANYTHING. I am naturally inclined to believe anything reported about Israel as being false, because I see way more lies than I see truth.

richwicks says

socal2 says

The current "moderate" leader of the Palestinian Authority (Arafat's successor) Abbas literally got a PhD from Moscow for Holocaust denial.

socal2 - Let's see a source for this.

"Abbas later entered graduate studies at the Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow, where he earned a Candidate of Sciences degree (the Soviet equivalent of a PhD). His doctoral dissertation was The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas#:~:text=Abbas%20later%20entered%20graduate%20studies,and%20they%20had%20three%20sons.

He's right up your alley!

richwicks says

Let's see a source for this.

He has made statements of the reason why Jewish peopole were persecuted : https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-israel-holocaust-abbas-antisemitism-1d84b3a82f0d8ff3fd8601f06bc1176e

His PhD covered Hitler as being a Zionist because of his approval of the Haavara Agreement. Hitler wanted Jewish people to leave Germany but that they had to sell off their assets for payment in German made goods that were to be shipped to Israel.

https://aghostinthemachine.substack.com/p/israels-911#details

In this episode, I share my thoughts about the situation with Israel and Palestine, as well as what I believe America’s response should be. Here’s the TL;DR (or too long; didn’t listen):

Israel’s 10/7 is a lot like America’s 9/11: if you’re an American, remember how you (and everyone around you) felt that day, and how your feelings were manipulated by power-hungry psychopaths to advance their interests at your expense;

Remember also all the red flags and anomalies that subsequently cast doubt on the official narrative, leading (for many people) to a growing belief that certain high-level officials in our own government knew what was coming and allowed it to happen, effectively sacrificing thousands of their own people in order to get the forever wars and surveillance state that they wanted (but couldn’t have pulled off before 9/11);

I fully expect those same patterns to emerge with Israel’s 10/7 — it seems inconceivable that the Mossad had no prior knowledge of Hamas’s plans and that hundreds of Hamas fighters were able to cross one of the most militarized borders on the planet (in an over-the-top theatrical way) without triggering an immediate response from the IDF, and that they were able to rampage through Israel for as long as they did without facing any resistance from military or police;

America should not be a party to this conflict; even if we felt our intervention was justified, we need to use our resources and manpower to get our own house in order;

Images of Hamas brutalizing young Israeli women truly do shock the conscience, as do images of black terrorists brutalizing white farmers in South Africa and images of black street criminals brutalizing pretty much everyone in America’s big cities — saying we should not intervene on behalf of Israel in this conflict does not mean that we should support Hamas — there’s a reason why ANTIFA and BLM supporters are also Hamas supporters — Israel is fully capable, without our help, of doing to Hamas what America should do to ANTIFA/BLM rioters;

The Israelis and the Palestinians are like the Hatfield’s and the McCoy’s: the only way for a third-party (like America) to win in this conflict is not to get involved;

America’s “friendship” with Israel has been one-sided and ruinously expensive for America and her people;

If America’s public officials cared half as much about protecting the interests of the American people as they care about the interests of Israel and Ukraine, we’d have a completely different country, fewer international enemies, and a fraction of the debt;

Americans are justified in questioning the true allegiance of any public official who demonstrates more concern for foreign peoples than they do for Americans — if (for example) Victoria Nuland demonstrates a reckless disregard for the well-being of Americans while pursuing foreign policy objectives that align more closely with the interests of Israel, Americans should see her as a snake and a quisling and treat her accordingly;

This also goes for pro-Palestinian, pro-Islamist Bolsheviks, like Ilhan Omar and the rest of her Squad — if we had a healthy civilization, Omar and her ilk would have been deported long ago;

The people of a nation are distinct from their government — and especially from the “inner ring” that holds the real power within their government: this is true for America, and it’s also true for Israel — and even for the Gaza strip;

The “friend/enemy” dichotomy is overly simplistic; different groups of people and different nations have different interests, with varying degrees of alignment or conflict based on their interests and how they prioritize those interests;

In some rare cases — such as George Soros and the ADL — the conflicts of interests are so severe (they want our people dead or enslaved) that they rise to the level of being an enemy, with whom no compromise or accommodation can be made; such enemies are demons who must be destroyed;

But it is also important to remember that George Soros and the ADL are not the same as “the Jews” — “the Jews” include various sub-groups with competing interests: reform/atheist Jews are often, but not always, aligned with the banksters and the Bolsheviks, but Orthodox Jews are mostly right-wing in their political beliefs and cultural norms and are among the most vocal opponents of the Bolshevik cultural revolution that is currently being promoted by Soros and the ADL;

The pro-Israel camp also includes lots of Christians, especially Evangelicals and Pentecostals, who are probably more fervent Zionists than most Jews, and these Christians are also vocal opponents of the Bolshevik cultural revolution;

The pro-Palestinian side includes almost all the non-Jewish Bolsheviks, as well as a few Jewish Bolsheviks, whose Conformmunist identity is more important to them than their religious or ethnic identity;

Basically, the issues and parties involved are a complex web of historical grievances, religious traditions, geopolitical alliances, etc., and American interests are best served by staying out of this family feud between the Semitic peoples of Judea, and focusing instead on securing our own border, deporting invaders from our own country, bringing predatory criminal animals to heel, and completely overhauling the parasitic financial sector;

We should identify what our interests are and form ad hoc alliances based on those interests, which will frequently mean joining forces with essentially Zionist evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews on issues unrelated to Israel (even though these groups’ good-faith support of Israel is often exploited by bad-faith neo-con-artists), because …

The ongoing Bolshevik cultural revolution here in America (and the rest of the West) is absolutely the biggest threat to us and to everything that makes our lives worth living, and evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews are absolutely on the right side of that culture war.

socal2 says

"Abbas later entered graduate studies at the Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow, where he earned a Candidate of Sciences degree (the Soviet equivalent of a PhD). His doctoral dissertation was The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas#:~:text=Abbas%20later%20entered%20graduate%20studies,and%20they%20had%20three%20sons.

He's right up your alley!

He didn't get a degree for a PhD from Moscow for Holocaust denial.

I'd have to read what he wrote. I mean, Lehi did offer to align themselves with Nazi Germany:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)#Nazi_Germany

And there is the Haavara Agreement..

Lehi was the precursor to the Likud party.

Anyhow I did have to laugh at this:

"Some content of his thesis has been considered as Holocaust denial by some Jewish groups, especially where he disputed the accepted number of Jews murdered in the Holocaust and claimed Zionist agitation had been the cause of the Holocaust."

If that's the metric, to question the 6 million figure, every serious historian is a holocaust denier. Auschwitz has had the number of Jewish people changed, MULTIPLE times. A lot of exaggeration, atrocity propaganda from WWII, survives to this day, and in the 1950's and even most of the 1960's, the number of Jewish people killed was generally accepted to be 2 million.

Ever notice this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_of_inmates_in_Nazi_concentration_camps

How many digits were used per slave labor victim? It wasn't just Jews that got these tatoos, every slave laborer did. Homosexuals, Communists, Gypsies as long as they went to Auschwitz..

I hate talking about the holocaust because it's like talking to a communist and trying to explain that they've been brainwashed. Takes too much deprogramming and that's a LOT easier, because at least our media and government don't constantly promote the lies of communism.

richwicks says

I mean, Lehi did offer to align themselves with Nazi Germany

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)#Political_racism

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According to Yaacov Shavit, professor at the Department of Jewish History, Tel Aviv University, articles in Lehi publications contained references to a Jewish "master race", contrasting the Jews with Arabs who were seen as a "nation of slaves".[47] Sasha Polakow-Suransky writes that "Lehi was also unabashedly racist towards Arabs. Their publications described Jews as a master race and Arabs as a slave race." Lehi advocated mass expulsion of all Arabs from Palestine and Transjordan,[48] or even their physical annihilation.[49]

In contrast, a number of Lehi veterans, including co-leader Nathan Yellin-Mor, went on to establish the Semitic Action movement which sought the creation of a regional federation encompassing Israel and its Arab neighbours[40][41] on the basis of an anti-colonialist alliance with other indigenous inhabitants of the Middle East.[42]
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ad says

richwicks says

I mean, Lehi did offer to align themselves with Nazi Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi(militant_group)#Political_racism

I kind of view a lot of these "opinions", as being kind of pointless. You know how the US "goes to war over humanitarian rights" or there is "Jihad" or that "the Crusades was all about recapturing the Holy Land for Christ"?

I view these as cynical reasons to motivate the cannon fodder. I don't think they have any beliefs, the the puppet masters are just figuring out which strings are useful to pull to get their puppets to act. We didn't go to war over weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we didn't go to Afghanistan to capture binLaden or to spread human rights, we're not in Syria to protect the population from evil Assad, we didn't blow up Libya to prevent a humanitarian crisis.

It's all just cynical exploitation of people's beliefs, beliefs they are willing to get shot at, or even die for.

richwicks says

I kind of view a lot of these "opinions", as being kind of pointless.

They are written statements made by Lehi. They are not opinions.

They are statements by the Lehi that the Jewish people are the master race and the Arabs are inferior and should be driven out of Palestine.

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ad says

They are written statements made by Lehi. They are not opinions.

I think it's more recruitment rhetoric. That's what I mean.

I don't think the people at the top have any real beliefs, they're just tapping into beliefs to further their agenda for increased power.

RWSGFY says

So-called "Palestinians" have always been the asset of the KGB.

Yep, Arafat aka Agent Aref, born in Cairo like most of the PLO leadership almost all of whom were born outside "Palestine" like Damascus and Beirut and Amman. "Big Plantation" and "Little Farm" = KGB codewords for their allies PLO and PFLP.

socal2 says

"Abbas later entered graduate studies at the Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow, where he earned a Candidate of Sciences degree (the Soviet equivalent of a PhD). His doctoral dissertation was The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas#:~:text=Abbas%20later%20entered%20graduate%20studies,and%20they%20had%20three%20sons.

LOL! I guess he was butthurt about the Grand Mufti of Al Aqsa and Jerusalem was a Hitler Ally who helped raise Muslim SS Auxillaries like Bosniak Muslim Scimitar Brigade.

ad says

They are statements by the Lehi that the Jewish people are the master race and the Arabs are inferior and should be driven out of Palestine.

This is bizarre, and probably just a coincidence, but Lehi was a Mormon prophet. Odd that it is the same as the acronym for the Stern Gang:

לח"י – לוחמי חרות ישראל Lohamei Herut Israel – Lehi, "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel – Lehi"), often known pejoratively as the Stern Gang, was a Zionist paramilitary militant organization founded by Avraham ("Yair") Stern ...

Of course, the Stern Gang was quashed as was Kahane by the Israeli Government. UNLIKE Hamas and PIJ, PFLP, etc.

richwicks says

I think it's more recruitment rhetoric. That's what I mean.

I don't think the people at the top have any real beliefs, they're just tapping into beliefs to further their agenda for increased power.

It was the culture and beliefs of the Lehi such as Jews were the master race and the Arabs needed to be removed from Palestine.

Not everyone on the top just pretends to believe in the organization's platform and norms.

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AmericanKulak says

Kahane by the Israeli Government

Kahane co founded the Jewish Defense League.

He was assassinated by El Sayyid Nosair, an Egypitan-born American in New York City in November 1990 after he gave a speech.

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American Patriots are gathering to support Palestine!

/end of meme dump

AmericanKulak says

Yep, Arafat aka Agent Aref, born in Cairo like most of the PLO leadership almost all of whom were born outside "Palestine"

Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo, Egypt in 1929 to his father Abdel Raouf al-Qudwa al-Husseini who was from Gaza City, and his mother Zahwa Abul Saud who was from Jerusalem.

AmericanKulak says

American Patriots are gathering to support Palestine!

The JDL was a terrorist organization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

richwicks says

Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo, Egypt in 1929 to his father Abdel Raouf al-Qudwa al-Husseini who was from Gaza City, and his mother Zahwa Abul Saud who was from Jerusalem.

His mother's mother was Egyptian, proving the "most Palestinians came due to Jewish investment and labor opportunities" line.
Arafat's father had inherited land in Egypt but was unable to win lawsuits to claim it back, I assume a family dispute.

Apparently except for a brief stay with his Uncle, Arafat grew up in Cairo. He attended university in Egypt and was a Student when the War of Liberation against Arab Invasion happened.

Since Arafat was born in Cairo I would assume on at least one side they had property in Egypt.

What year was Israel created?

richwicks says

The JDL was a terrorist organization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

Freedom Fighters. You see, they also run Charities and represent an oppressed people so don't believe Media and State Department Propaganda :)

AmericanKulak says

What year was Israel created?

1948 with UN Resolution 181, and then this immediately led to civil war, Count Folke Bernadotte went to try to negotiate a peace, and he was murdered by Lehi. Berandotte was chosen in part for his work with the Red Cross. This led to UN Resolution 194 that called for repatriation of the Palestinians, and it was the first UN resolution that Israel violated.

It's been all fun and games ever since.

Israel is actually in violation of the Geneva Conventions by occupying land "illegally", but really who cares? Nobody follows treaties, and "International Law" is a joke with no teeth and all this paper and bullshit is just to pretend there are actual groups that follow principles that have supposedly been agreed upon, but they are only agreed upon until they become inconvenient. I'm certain that the US will be screaming that Russia is in violation of the Geneva Conventions in time.

None of this matters. It's just might makes right now. Nobody has any principles, and pretending they do, is foolish.

richwicks says

1948 with UN Resolution 181, and then this immediately led to civil war, Count Folke Bernadotte went to try to negotiate a peace, and he was murdered by Lehi. Berandotte was chosen in part for his work with the Red Cross. This led to UN Resolution 194 that called for repatriation of the Palestinians, and it was the first UN resolution that Israel violated.

No Arab state recognized UN Res 181. The PA only accepted it in 1988 when their sponsor the USSR dropped away and the world was changing. The British withdrew from their Mandate and declared they wouldn't enforce the UN mandate, and 5 Arab Nations invaded and annexed what they could including parts not given to Arabs under 181.

The original PLO founding documents recognize the West Bank as part of Jordan, which illegally annexed it without UN authorization when the British Withdrew. Jordan did NOT create another Arab Mandate, but annexed it. That means the PLO thought that...

BUT, it's all about who can hold it. More settlements, puppet governments that allow sale of land to Israelis, etc.

As for Folke Bernadotte, he was assassinated by Lehi extremists. One of the first acts of Israel after winning Independence was to charge the assassins, who were sentenced to prison with Irgun and Haganah generals testifying that their assassinations and attacks hindered the Cause. They were sentenced to years in prison but then a general amnesty for all political militants was passed. Their party got 1.2% of the vote and that was the end of that.

The best thing about the Internet bypassing the past is harder and harder.

The usual suspects are whinging about Gaza being bombed, but the images of the dead Dancers, kidnapped people, and the house-to-house slaughter is too fresh for people to buy the usual Pallywood Hamasbara.

"b-b-but, a buncha settlers yelled and screamed on the Temple Mount after months of harassment by Arabs back in the summer. Nobody died. That justified gunning down 1000 civilians!"

Nobody gives a fuck, no matter how much Mehta on PMSNBC or George Takei or Labourtards whinge.

Just 7 months ago:

March 14, 2023
The Palestinian armed group Hamas said on Tuesday that it sent a high-level delegation to Russia and held talks with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
In an interview published on Hamas’ website, Saleh al-Arouri, deputy head of Hamas’ political bureau, said party leaders visited Russia and met Lavrov and that the visit was a reflection of Hamas’ weight among major global powers.
"The leadership of the movement visited Moscow and met Sergey Lavrov. It was an important visit that highlights the role of the movement with many global actors," Arouri said. He added that there might be another international Hamas trip "in the coming weeks." Arouri did not specify when the visit to Moscow took place, saying only that it happened "recently."
Commenting on the increasing Israeli attacks against Palestinians ahead of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, Arouri said the movement’s “patience is running out.”
Israeli-Palestinian tension has been rising in the West Bank as Israeli raids have intensified, leading to US warnings about the security situation. Israel has accused several West Bank groups including the Lion’s Den of being backed and funded by Hamas.
Meanwhile, Russian-Hamas relations have steadily grown. Russia has sought to increase its role in the Palestinian reconciliation dossier, with some Palestinians hoping it will break the US monopoly over the file that has been stalled for more than a decade.
Hamas officials have made several visits to the Russian capital, most recently in September of last year.
Moscow’s public support for Hamas also comes as its relations with Israel soured following its invasion of Ukraine last year. Israel has maintained a cautious stance in the war, but Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen’s February visit to Kyiv marked a small shift as Israel grows more concerned about Moscow-Tehran military cooperation and the use of Iranian drones in Ukraine.

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/03/hamas-says-leadership-visited-russia-met-sergey-lavrov#ixzz8FiFuKrIL

So?

AmericanKulak says

No Arab state recognized UN Res 181.

Why should they? The UN's mandate is for self determination, which means democratic vote. Palestinians (or ARABS if you prefer, who cares), were entirely excluded from any decision making process on the partition of Palestine. 181 is invalid. If it's valid, so it 194. In reality, there are no rules. It's all bullshit to give a veneer of legitimacy - there is no legitimacy at all.

AmericanKulak says

The British withdrew from their Mandate and declared they wouldn't enforce the UN mandate

Of course not. Atlee said openly that it would lead to a civil war, so they abstained from voting on 181 at all, and when it passed, well golly, civil war!!

This whole bullshit is the fault of the British in my opinion. They promised both the Zionists and the Palestinians they would become an independent nation. They lied to both.

AmericanKulak says

BUT, it's all about who can hold it. More settlements, puppet governments that allow sale of land to Israelis, etc.

Yep, it's just might makes right. There's no rules or legitimacy or agreements. Every agreement ever in "international law" is contradicted, and all we hear about are the "rules" that support the side of our government which is closely aligned with the Israeli government. As soon as somebody starts blathering on about the Balfour Declaration, I tell people to read it, and then also point out what right did the British have to make this promise?

Nobody reads it. The Balfour Declaration reads:

His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

Who cares? Israel only negotiates if force is used against them, there's no diplomatic solution, and the US will shit money into Israel until the US is fucking dead.

It's so pointless. It's Europe's last colony and the conflict is going to last forever. The US just loves to fucking shit out money everywhere, tons of opportunity for kickbacks with that, Europe doesn't really give a crap either way, Arab states don't care...

Absolutely. Palestinians only accept overwhelming force. Even after the UN forced Israel to accept the 67 Cease Fire on the outskirts of Damascus and while they were physically detonating by hand the 100s of SA-2s the Soviet Advisors set up on the WEST side of the Suez Canal, the Arabs went back a few weeks later and said No to any permanent peace.

Only giving this women a real reason to cry will fix this.

AmericanKulak says

This isn't true.

Find any reporting on MSNBC that favors the Palestinians. Here:

https://www.youtube.com/@msnbc

Find ONE. The idea that the US media defends the Palestinian side EVER, it never happens. This was the first issue to wake me up that MAYBE US "news" media is just propaganda, and that was 35 years ago.

The idea that the US "news" favors the Palestine side is delusional. Did you hear about this?

https://www.theinteldrop.org/2023/07/14/200palestinians-killed-by-israel-since-beginning-of-2023-data-center/

That was printed on July 14, 2023. Why didn't CNN report on it, or MSNBC, or CBS, or Fox, or anybody? And who the fuck knows if it's true anyhow? It's just a stream of endless lies, there is no attempt at truthful informative data.

I can tell you without even looking at any of the "news" in the US what the narrative already is, or will be. "Gaza attacked Israel for NO REASON AT ALL, they just hate Jews". Settlers put bullets in Palestinian's heads all the time, for fun. IDF does too. Who gives a shit?

richwicks says

Israel is actually in violation of the Geneva Conventions by occupying land "illegally", but really who cares?

Zionism was in effect for at least a hundred years before UN Resolution 181 was passed.

World War 2 just dramatically increased its rate as well as the exodus out of the Soviet Bloc countries.

Now you have two significantly different populations who hate each other at least the same as they did 100 years ago.

I agree it does not help that Israel seized land in the West Bank and have put settlements on it . Those settlements likely are heavily guarded by Israeli orthodox fundamentalists (versus the more secular kibbutz's near Gaza).

Just read that Israel is now relaxing its stringent gun control laws.

If I was in those kibbutz near Gaza, I would want to be my own police and security. They really underestimated their own security.

Can't rely on 911.

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ad says

Just read that Israel is now relaxing its stringent gun control laws.

I have heard a good point made, the people in locations where Israelis were murdered, they probably aren't coming back.

There's also been massive protests against the Israeli government going on for a long time in Israel. IF Israelis collectively think that the Israeli government invited this attack, and purposely let it happen, we may have a change in Israeli government policy.

Gaza really does put up with a lot of shit and humiliations. 100's of Palestinians are killed every year, IDF recorded putting a bullet in a kid's head, laughing about it and posting it to social media, settlers NEVER get prosecuted for killing Palestinians, they turn the water and electricity on and off to Gaza all the time, Israel has destroyed their infrastructure, Palestinians weren't given the "safe and effective life saving vaccine" but that was more about restrictions - Israel had some of the harshest restrictions on vaccine mandates to do stuff and this was a way to exclude Palestinians, there's roads in the West Bank which are for the exclusive use of Jewish settlers - there's a bunch of things like this, and Americans have no clue and when I talk about them, they don't believe it.

There's a lot of enmity between the two groups, and the Israeli government continually exacerbates it. This is an easy way to keep Likud in power. Israel isn't seriously threatened by the Palestinians and so long as this conflict continues, Israel gets plenty of "aid" money.

richwicks says

I have heard a good point made, the people and locations where Israelis were murdered, they probably aren't coming back.

That is what the Hamas terrorists want. Their terrorism had an effect.

If I was those kibbutz, I would make them like a fortress and also arm each resident above the age of 14. I would harden them like those settlements on the West Bank.

Yeah we give about the same as in the 1980's, about $3.8 billion annually.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

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