patrick.net

ad says

Just read that Israel is now relaxing its stringent gun control laws.

I have heard a good point made, the people in locations where Israelis were murdered, they probably aren't coming back.

There's also been massive protests against the Israeli government going on for a long time in Israel. IF Israelis collectively think that the Israeli government invited this attack, and purposely let it happen, we may have a change in Israeli government policy.

Gaza really does put up with a lot of shit and humiliations. 100's of Palestinians are killed every year, IDF recorded putting a bullet in a kid's head, laughing about it and posting it to social media, settlers NEVER get prosecuted for killing Palestinians, they turn the water and electricity on and off to Gaza all the time, Israel has destroyed their infrastructure, Palestinians weren't given the "safe and effective life saving vaccine" but that was more about restrictions - Israel had some of the harshest restrictions on vaccine mandates to do stuff and this was a way to exclude Palestinians, there's roads in the West Bank which are for the exclusive use of Jewish settlers - there's a bunch of things like this, and Americans have no clue and when I talk about them, they don't believe it.

There's a lot of enmity between the two groups, and the Israeli government continually exacerbates it. This is an easy way to keep Likud in power. Israel isn't seriously threatened by the Palestinians and so long as this conflict continues, Israel gets plenty of "aid" money.

richwicks says

I have heard a good point made, the people and locations where Israelis were murdered, they probably aren't coming back.

That is what the Hamas terrorists want. Their terrorism had an effect.

If I was those kibbutz, I would make them like a fortress and also arm each resident above the age of 14. I would harden them like those settlements on the West Bank.

Yeah we give about the same as in the 1980's, about $3.8 billion annually.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

.

Yep, Israels GDP is about $488 billion. Don't get me wrong, they ain't gonna say no to free money, but it ain;t gonna make or break 'em.

ad says

That is what the Hamas terrorists want.

Yeah, I know. This is why Israel tries to make life hell for Palestinians as well - they want to get them to leave.

ad says

Yeah we give about the same as in the 1980's, about $3.8 billion annually.

You missed the "current U.S. dollars in millions".

That is NOT measured by CPI. If it was, social security would be "the same" today as it was in 1980.

Misc says

Yep, Israels GDP is about $488 billion. Don't get me wrong, they ain't gonna say no to free money, but it ain;t gonna make or break 'em.

The Israeli government budget is approx $100B/year.

So $3-4B loss would mean a some small mix of spending cuts or tax increases, about 3-4% of the budget, but far from the killing blow that detractors think it will be. Also it was around for 20 years before any substantial US Gov Aid, which started after 1967 to balance out the Soviets massive technical, advisory, and material (1000s of SAMs, Tanks, and MiGs) to Egypt and Syria.

And later, NORK and Soviet piloted missions into Israel - to their chagrin, as they had been razzing the Egyptian pilots yet got their asses beat just as bad.

LOL.

"If only Richard Nixon hadn't held us Pakistanis back in 1971, we Mighty Pakistanis would have been in Delhi in a day!" levels of delusion.

Also fun fact: If you think the Sufis are the peaceful, mystical version of Islam, guess what many Chechens practice?

AmericanKulak says

So $3-4B loss would mean a some small mix of spending cuts or tax increases, about 3-4% of the budget, but far from the killing blow that detractors think it will be.

The problem of aid isn't that Israel needs it, it's placing blood on the hands of Americans. If Israel doesn't need it, fine, let's get rid of it.

AID isn't aid. It's bribes. The US gives money to Israel, and then Israel gives money to US politicians and think tanks, and advocacy groups like AIPAC and god knows what - social media companies, the FIB, who knows?

Why do you think politicians are so eager to continue the Ukraine war? We all know why. Our politicians OPENLY engage in taking bribes. Congress won't even allow the money to be tracked, why do you think that is?

Why do people think Israel is any different? Nobody is different.

AmericanKulak says

"If only Richard Nixon hadn't held us Pakistanis back in 1971, we Mighty Pakistanis would have been in Delhi in a day!" levels of delusion.

Golda Mier actually said that if Israel were to fall, they'd use the "Samson Option" in 1973:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option#Deterrence_doctrine


There's a quite a bit of evidence that Israel was about to fall actually. Both the US and the USSR drew back, and so did the Arab states because many of them were under the thumb of the USSR.

I guess having this endless bloodshed is better than having a nuclear wasteland there. I bet if it were used, we'd have a REAL clash of civilizations. Too many nuts attach religious significance to the region.

Here is Samerra Khan, buddy buddy with noted Propagandist SyrianGirl.



Now they're fantasizing about Chechen Sufis coming to save Palestine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGIKctW0oK4

"Harden your Heart, Oh Putin"
"We say to China: Invade Taiwan!"
"We will marry Ukrainian Women!"

Note to skeptics: I got this from a thread full of Arab named commenters, and none contested the translation and were cheering the sentiment.

AmericanKulak says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGIKctW0oK4

"Harden your Heart, Oh Putin"

Note to skeptics: I got this from a thread full of Arabs, and none contested the translation and were cheering the sentiment.

Why is the quality of the video so low? All the people there seem basically white to me. Who are they? What language is it in? Arabic? Where was the video taken?

MEMRI claiming to be non-partisan was hilarious though. It's run by Yigal Carmen. I'm not going to bother to give you the wikipedia entry.

It's a PR war, where each side seeks to claim to be the bigger victim, and provokes or allows atrocities for that reason.

It is not solvable. The only certain thing is that saying "Look at these atrocities and not those" is what both sides want.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1711771618757030320

AmericanKulak says

Also fun fact: If you think the Sufis are the peaceful, mystical version of Islam, guess what many Chechens practice?

Putin is going to unleash his Muslim jihadis to kill the Nazis in Israel and save Christianity or something.

PS. They were waffling on providing help to Ukraine all this time because their feeble-minded PMs (first Bennet and Netanyahu) were trying to "look into Pukin's eyes and see his soul there" and tiptoeing around to "not provoke the Soviets". How did it work for them? That beta shit haven't worked for anyone since fucking elem school, but yet grown man are still hoping "this time it's different".

Patrick says

It's a PR war, where each side seeks to claim to be the bigger victim, and provokes or allows atrocities for that reason.

It is not solvable. The only certain thing is that saying "Look at these atrocities and not those" is what both sides want.

Makes sense to me. I read, just today, that the Palestinian are not only landlocked but all borders are closed to an extent they cannot even leave. I assume that's why so many are calling Palestine an open air prison. Even if they attempt to leave by sea, the Israelis shoot to kill past 3 miles (maybe it's more. maybe less). This sounds really bad. It's no different than provoking someone to attack you imo. Now, was Palestian's land stolen or not?

Why does it seem like America has some kind of debt we owe to Israel? I would think it's the opposite.

Patrick says

It is not solvable. The only certain thing is that saying "Look at these atrocities and not those" is what both sides want.

Glenn Greenwald made a good point in his last night's coverage. BSD (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) are literally illegal in many of the states in the US, and any criticism of Israel is called "antisemitism" - so if there can be no peaceful protests to change this situation, what is left for the Palestinians to do?

We just saw it a few days ago.

Israel is only 10 million people, we put up with an AWFUL lot of bullshit from that tiny minority.

AmericanKulak says

As for Folke Bernadotte, he was assassinated by Lehi extremists. One of the first acts of Israel after winning Independence was to charge the assassins, who were sentenced to prison with Irgun and Haganah generals testifying that their assassinations and attacks hindered the Cause. They were sentenced to years in prison but then a general amnesty for all political militants was passed. Their party got 1.2% of the vote and that was the end of that.

Oh bullshit. Yitzhak Shamir was one of the triumvirate that ordered the murder of Bernadotte. He was part of Lehi at the time, and the 7th prime minster of Israel.

Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, that's what Israel claims - when it's convenient to them. He was a terrorist.

AmericanKulak says

The best thing about the Internet bypassing the past is harder and harder.

The usual suspects are whinging about Gaza being bombed, but the images of the dead Dancers, kidnapped people, and the house-to-house slaughter is too fresh for people to buy the usual Pallywood Hamasbara.

"b-b-but, a buncha settlers yelled and screamed on the Temple Mount after months of harassment by Arabs back in the summer. Nobody died. That justified gunning down 1000 civilians!"

Nobody gives a fuck, no matter how much Mehta on PMSNBC or George Takei or Labourtards whinge.

You're correct, history is harder to erase, but this won't work in the favor of Israel in my opinion.

GNL says

Now, was Palestian's land stolen or not?

the last couple hundred of years it was slowly overtaken and became israel

adolph hitler and the nazi party at one time were major zionists based on his involvement with the haavara agreement

soviet union expelled a lot of jewish people to israel

so the Soviet bloc and Nazi's are attributed to a lot of why Israel exists based on migration patterns to the land where the nation of Israel exists..

so the land once known as kingdoms of judah and israel were the new home to jewish people arriving over the last 100 to 200 years ...they had immigration "somewhat like" the USA has had immigration..

gaza was outside of the kingdoms of judah and israel

i wonder how many of the present day Palestinians can trace their ancestors to being "israeli or jewish and who ' converted ' to islam "

the Mizrahi/Sephardi jews look somewhat Palestinian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

ad says

gaza was outside of the kingdoms of judah and israel

Egypt won't take it back. It was offered in the Sinai Accords and they were like, yeah, nooo!

GNL says

Makes sense to me. I read, just today, that the Palestinian are not only landlocked but all borders are closed to an extent they cannot even leave. I assume that's why so many are calling Palestine an open air prison. Even if they attempt to leave by sea, the Israelis shoot to kill past 3 miles (maybe it's more. maybe less). This sounds really bad. It's no different than provoking someone to attack you imo. Now, was Palestian's land stolen or not?

There's a border with Egypt, too.

The Egyptians will tell you why they hate to open it.

Because when they do, a few weeks later many terrorists start going boom boom on tourists and resorts in Egypt.

richwicks says

Oh bullshit. Yitzhak Shamir was one of the triumvirate that ordered the murder of Bernadotte. He was part of Lehi at the time, and the 7th prime minster of Israel.

Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, that's what Israel claims - when it's convenient to them. He was a terrorist.

Freedom Fighter.

Leila Khalid was a Terrorist. Very Chic in Leftoid Circles in the 70s and 80s but never reached Che levels of worship.

richwicks says

BSD (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) are literally illegal in many of the states in the US, and any criticism of Israel is called "antisemitism"

Nope. It's illegal for the Woke Administrators of State Schools, Departments, etc. to practice BDS. States have a right to forbid their employees from considering which countries they will boycott as Administrators.

Unelected Public Employees, like Presidents of Universities, are not elected officials that have the privilege of making public foreign policy for the state.

Half of them would buy everything from Venezuela if they could.

ad says

adolph hitler and the nazi party at one time were major zionists based on his involvement with the haavara agreement

That's an exaggeration. One Nazi Official was sent down to Israel to see if it was worth transferring the Jews there and had a commemorative token struck. The Nazis decided to collaborate with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a Bosniak Muslim imported by Turkey in the late 19th along with others to try to repopulate the deserted province.



He helped raise the SS Scimitar Brigade of Bosnian Muslims to fight in WW2.

Prior to being a "Palestinian", he wanted the British to recreate the Kaliphate of Damascus that would incorporate ALL the Levant, including Lebanon, Syria, the old Sanjaks of Akko, Jerusalem, Nablus, etc. into one Caliphate. Ottoman Empire did NOT have a province of Palestine, but a bunch of counties in the area (aforementioned Sanjaks), and the overarching Over Governor was from Damascus.

Only when it was clear France and Britain were going to create normal states and not a Muslim Empire did he get his knickers in a twist... to ensure South Syria (Jerusalem) would be part of Syria. But then UK and France would cross each other's Mandates, so then he decided there should be a Palestine.

It was his third and least favorite option; he wanted the All-Levant Caliphate with HQ in Damascus.

The Tamimis, including the famous terrorist who continues to hide in Jordan as well as actress Surely Temper, are Bosniaks who came no earlier than many Jews in the 19thC. But of course, call themselves native Palestinians.

TL;DR: It's complicated. Just let the Western friendly nation Kleanse 'Em All and not support a cuck out with peace and happiness for a change.

BTW, "Gaza was Carpet Bombed"

I wish.

Here's the area mostly bombed by Israel in the last night. Other than a few buildings here and there, Hamas Government was concentrated in the Commercial District of Rimal



You can check this for yourself in Google map.

Here's all the Malls in the open air prison camp



And finally, realize that Radicals, Reds, And Terrorists are trying to do this:


And reject their framing.

AmericanKulak says

The Nazis decided to collaborate with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a Bosniak Muslim imported by Turkey in the late 19th along with others to try to repopulate the deserted province.

Yep.

"As Grand Mufti and leader in the Arab Higher Committee, especially during the war period 1938-45, al-Husayni played a key role in violent opposition to Zionism and closely allied himself with the Nazi regime in Germany." (. ISBN 978-0-86356-460-4. pp.309,321 )

Plenty of tension and fighting between Muslims and Jews well before the start of World War 2 such as the 1929 Palestinian Riots

He was not a "Bosniak" , he was a Palestinian Arab: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

"Bosniaks" are southern Slavs and are mostly Muslim. They would have been Christians if not from the Ottoman Empire conquest of that region around the 15th century.

Just like the Palestinians today like would have been Jews or Christians if there was no forced or coerced conversion to Islam ????

AmericanKulak says

Freedom Fighter.

Oh bullshit. Yitzhak Shamir was a German that invaded the area. He was an invader.

There is absolutely no question he was involved with the murder of Count Bernadotte. He was a typical terrorist fanatic.

AmericanKulak says

Nope. It's illegal for the Woke Administrators of State Schools, Departments, etc. to practice BDS. States have a right to forbid their employees from considering which countries they will boycott as Administrators.

No they don't!

If I didn't want to buy shit from Russia, or China, that's my right. God, how duplicitous are you?

If I have a problem with, say Georgia, I can boycott them as well. Bunch of left retards did that a few years ago. You think the STATE says I can't do this??

Stop having dual standards, and have consistent ones. It doesn't matter if people agree with your opinions, what matters if they are free to do what they want, even if you disagree with them. Tired of you fascist idiots. You exhibit dual standards, and I cannot believe you don't realize this. You have no principles.

I can accept I am wrong when a majority says I am, I can continue to disagree with that majority, however, I will never adopt dual standards - I believe you are fully aware of your hypocrisy, and have no shame in showing it thinking people are too dumb to pick it up. Absolute arrogance. That's disgusting of you. You're beneath me.

AmericanKulak says

You can check this for yourself in Google map.

Google maps are updated one every year, 6 months at the most. You won't see the damage until then and Google blurs the images of Gaza, the West Bank and Israel so you cannot see the economic disparity. They've been doing this for over 15 years.

I remember when I could see the difference over the wall, not it's just a smudge.

richwicks says

AmericanKulak says

You can check this for yourself in Google map.

Google maps are updated one every year, 6 months at the most. You won't see the damage until then and Google blurs the images of Gaza, the West Bank and Israel so you cannot see the economic disparity. They've been doing this for over 15 years.

I remember when I could see the difference over the wall, not it's just a smudge.

Not talking about the damage. Talking about the scale of the bombing.

richwicks says

No they don't!

If I didn't want to buy shit from Russia, or China, that's my right. God, how duplicitous are you?

If I have a problem with, say Georgia, I can boycott them as well. Bunch of left retards did that a few years ago.

Stop having dual standards, and have consistent ones. It doesn't matter if people agree with your opinions, what matters if they are free to do what they want, even if you disagree with them. Tired of you fascist cunts.

Go back and read what I wrote.

State Employees have no right to impose their Woke bullshit on Taxpayer's Money by boycotting countries. It's up to the ELECTED State Politicians, not UNELECTED Administrators, to decide how/where to spend TAXPAYER funds.

Department of Education Vice President LaShonda Wakanda has no authority to decide she'll only buy Venezuelan products or no Israeli ones with TAXPAYER money for the Department because of her BLM Activism.

Shall we do the White Phosphorus bullshit now, or later?

Because like in Syria, Ukraine, and wherever else an Army uses Smoke or Illumination rounds with White Phosphorus, somebody is gonna say it's "Chemical Warfare".

AmericanKulak says

State Employees have no right to impose their Woke bullshit on Taxpayer's Money by boycotting countries

Any employee is allowed to do whatever they want including boycotts, EXCEPT the state mandates that you can't do boycotts, That's what happened.

If I, as an engineering contractor, am boycotting Israel, there's something like 1/2 the states that won't hire me based on my purchase decisions.

That's what is going on.

In Florida, people had to sign fucking loyalty oaths to Israel for hurricane relief. For state aid.

WTF?

richwicks says

Any employee is allowed to do whatever they want including boycotts, EXCEPT the state mandates that you can't do boycotts, That's what happened.

If I, as an engineering contractor, am boycotting Israel, there's something like 1/2 the states that won't hire me based on my purchase decisions.

That's what is going on.

Great, nobody is guaranteed a government contract. If the government decides it won't buy books from companies that sponsor Drag Queen Storytime, or refuse to service Religious Adoption Agencies but want Dept of Ed contracts, that's fine too.

AmericanKulak says

Great, nobody is guaranteed a government contract.

To swear allegiance to a foreign state?

Seriously?

AmericanKulak says

If the government decides it won't buy books from companies that sponsor Drag Queen Storytime, or refuse to service Religious Adoption Agencies but want Dept of Ed contracts, that's fine too.

There should be no department of education, there should be no government involvement in education at all. That's the parent's choice.

Why is the fucking GOVERNMENT involved in any of this?

You keep looking up, like a dummy. "HALP! GOBERMINT! SAVE ME!"

Just get rid of the fucking government. There, problem solved.

The government, specifically, the federal government CREATES problems, they don't solve them. How can you not realize this?

Who is opening the border? A bunch of leftist twats? No, it's our government. Who is creating wars? A bunch of do-gooders for Ukraine? No, it's our government. How is it FUCKING possible you don't see the obvious at this point? Do you just pretend not to see?

Fuck the government. They don't do shit other than collect money and make empty promises. It's been this way ALL of my adult life, and I'm 52. Are you on their payroll? The federal government hasn't done a single thing for this nation in 30 years. Fuck them. Could be 70 years. I don't know.

But they did something, we have to hold our ankles to Israel - fuck them too.

richwicks says

To swear allegiance to a foreign state?

Sorry, the taxpayers elected officials decided not do business with politicized contractors.

Elected officials decide how and when to spend taxpayer dollars, not government employees or contractors.

If a State Government said "Contractors can't get supplies from Venezuelan companies, or must boycott China for it's labor laws the citizenry of this state have decided are odious to humanity" would you be so upset?

richwicks says

There should be no department of education, there should be no government involvement in education at all. That's the parent's choice.

Red herring. IF the government does public schooling, THEN the elected officials decide the conditions contractors have to meet.

richwicks says

The government, specifically, the federal government CREATES problems, they don't solve them. How can you not realize this?

Again, straw man. I've said many times I want decentralization. Though I don't see how the State Gov wouldn't have some role in Education, like setting basic standards for schools in the state so employers can have an idea of what they can expect diploma holders to know.

Decentralization doesn't mean NO role, it means devolving that role to the states (or lower depending on the state constitution)

richwicks says

Who is opening the border? A bunch of leftist twats? No, it's our government. Who is creating wars? A bunch of do-gooders for Ukraine? No, it's our government. How is it FUCKING possible you don't see the obvious at this point? Do you just pretend not to see?

Multinationals controlling the Government. Together. Not just one.

See "My Stance" - I made it with you in mind because I knew I was going to have to repeat myself endlessly, and if I neglected to footnote my position constantly we'd be here, again.
https://patrick.net/post/1380264/2023-10-10-my-stance

richwicks says

But they did something, we have to hold our ankles to Israel - fuck them too.

And there it is. Every time, Israel, Israel, I don't have a real dog in the fight, but let me bring Israel and Jews into everything, all the time.

PedoIwog says