patrick.net

Trust the evidence of your eyes and ears. Be on top of any changes, like diet, and don't let Soy Society or Bullshit Intuition claims otherwise if you start seeing bad reactions.

I find the best ages 5-10 so far. They need less constant guarding and watching, but are still fun and finding fun in everything.

Also +1 to Wookie's crying reax. After the first few months, if the diaper ain't dirty, and they ate, they're fine.

Another trick, from Grannie, is sometimes they DO get thirsty late at night. They can't tell you and probably don't know the difference between hunger and thirst themselves. If they've been increasing the time between feedings, just give them water every other time when they're over 6 months. One indicator is they don't finish the bottle and after a few sips pass out. Do this and the time between feedings will rapidly decrease.

Oh, and space documentaries are great - soothing music, not to much flashing on the screen - when feeding at night. AND DONT YOU EAT at night while you're in the kitchen, esp the first few weeks when it's all congrats cake and leftovers, or you'll be looking like chubster yourself.

AmericanKulak says

Oh, and space documentaries are great - soothing music, not to much flashing on the screen

Good point. I actually never though about one of those white noise machines for babies. I use them as an adult, but never thought about using it for a baby like the soothing music you mention.

I have ridiculous tinnitus for my age. Drummer and no ear plugs for a decade so I'm fucked. It helps me sleep and the ringing is less noticable. Wife hates it, she likes the TV. So I use it when I'm in the basement so I can get 3 hours of sleep as a fucking insomniac. Classic Wookie tangent.

Which brings up another point. Unless you're a lucky one, bounce back sex after giving birth likely won't be there. Don't force it as your spouse will likely be insecure about their body and the stress of having a baby and the sleep others brought up. It sucks. And it will likely never return to pre-baby levels unless you got a horny lady which isn't a knock.

Sex is healthy but frequency will go down unless it's a younger relationship. After 3 months it should pick up again, especially if you're looking for a 2nd or more kids. My second kid when my wife found out she was pregnant I told her "I got you, you fucker." Not a joke. That's our personalities. Very sarcastic and crude. Don't stray, give her time if she's not on the sex bandwagon. I know you're asking about the kid, but you have needs and that part of life could change for you as well. Be patient is my advice having banged my wife for 25 years with gaps of 2-3 months at times which sucks. They come around if emotions are good.

Oh forgot this. And it's going to sound gay. Get a therapist. You need a place to vent without anyone knowing, including your wife. I'd rather do that than get a massage.

I'm an angry person so I might be more biased. No one has the perfect spouse. Made up name, but you need to be able to talk about "Betty" and tell someone she was being a cunt. Built up anger and anxiety about the relationship as it changes is the definition of divorce once you have kids. One party expected one thing and the other expected something else.

Some people can pull it off without help. 50%+ end up in divorce. I know I'm an ass hole and portray this cool life. My wife and I fight like mother fuckers. It's not perfect and kids change that. Don't let it degrade into the you did X and I did Y arguments. Once that starts happening get to the therapist. No one is winning that fight, you're both losing.

Kids are awesome. Biggest thing I'd say is pay attention to your spouse. We're a first world country. Your kid(s) will be fine. It degrades if you lose the passion for each other. Oxygen mask theory. If you're not happy your kids won't be either. Going down a rabbit hole, but I'm right. I'm not an expert, but 25 years with one person (mostly) I can say I know some things. It's a roller coaster and kids change a lot. And generally it's the female and that's out of your control.

Good point about taking care of yourself

Chances are you are the breadwinner and leader of the family. If you’re not doing well, it will impact everything downstream.

I like the airplane oxygen mask example.

Its greatest joy.
And just help mother n child as much as you can. Lot of things won't make sense but go with it.

Learn about baby's poop, there is poop chart. They can go without pooping for up to 5 days.

DhammaStep says

I know that this will probably be the most important thing I do with my life

Because you know this, you will do great. Care, patience, understanding and always realizing that kids are learning how to regulate their emotions and outbursts will take you a looooong way to doing a great job.

I'm a grandfather now. It is easy to see where my shortcomings were when raising 2 girls. I needed more patience and understanding.

KgK one says

Learn about baby's poop, there is poop chart. They can go without pooping for up to 5 days.

Jesus, I went to sex and you went to poop... lol. That's seriously funny but true. First kid you think they're going to die over the littlest thing. Son a bitch didn't shit for a week. My niece's record I think was two weeks. As they grow they have massive shits. Sometimes it tears their ass hole a bit and there might be blood. Internal bleeding is a dark black stool. But ass hole you'll see red blood. Been there done that with my youngest big shitter. Freaked my wife out. This is more toddler phase though.

Don't be a hypochondriac, but make sure to pay attention. My nurse friend I mentioned that lost a child was really young and naive. Still kind of is. She's 34 today, her birthday today and her oldest is going to college for perspective. High school pregnancy. Her 2nd died when she was 23 and the kid was 2-3 years old. Bacterial infection. So she went full medical and became a nurse. And is now a massive hypochondriac. Even to adults that aren't family. Massive guilt. Not trying to scare the OP, but things do happen albeit rarely.

Stuff will happen. Knock on wood with two of mine and my nephew, only my nephew broke his arm... and my son did it at baseball practice. The collided on a fly ball. Got moms barking at me to drive my car on the field to get him to the doctor. I walk up and said it's just an arm, he can walk. Moms didn't take that well. Didn't take him to the doctor until the next day. Yup, it was broken. Kids are tougher than can be though. I have to sometimes pat myself on the back. My nephew needed a father figure. I'm flawed, but the way I handled it was how a man should. Wasn't a compound fracture, wasn't bent, we'll check it out tomorrow. Gave him some children's Tylenol and went in the morning. A mom would be running around with their hair on fire.

They then proceeded to fuck up the temporary cast cutting off his circulation and his hand inflated basically. The next doc setting the hard cast was like what the fuck did they do??? So many tips. Keep an eye on the docs is all I'll say. We have a one nut (testicle) son. Had a bull shit procedure done on him at about 2. Pissed still. It was completely unnecessary. I was legit crying in the recovery room. Part of that is what has led me to not take pills and know my body and not trust the medical field. I hope Covid opened a lot of people's eyes. Unfortunately I don't think it did.

GNL says

I'm a grandfather now. It is easy to see where my shortcomings were when raising 2 girls. I needed more patience and understanding.

Men don't have patience really. Hindsight is 20/20. You have a grandkid. You did something right to get to this point.

I'm going crazy on this thread but it's recently relevant to me. My dad would beat the fuck out of me. My mom watched and did nothing so I hated them both. I was the spoiled brat but abused kid. Vowed NOT to be that way with my kids but still have discipline. I think I'm doing okay. It's easier now with electronics. You take them away. You don't throw them into a wall...

I know some older users, age wise may have dealt with physical abuse. My dad was old school and his dad died when he was 11 and my grandma (his mom) was a massive alcoholic, but lived to 93, but that's another story. He really had no fucking clue what to do as a parent.

I feel like Ohomen in this thread except I use paragraph breaks. Sorry, the OP has triggered a lot of thoughts and the comments. I'll pause for a bit.

WookieMan says

Men don't have patience really.

Yep most don't, we're mostly wired that way. I can take physical care of any baby probably better than 80% of mothers, know what to watch out for and how to treat. Your baby stays alive with me, whatever happens. However when it comes to bitching and crying and screaming, to not sleeping or fucking shit up where I said no twice you will get zero patience and 100% consequences. That's why when they are newborns/infants, it's often better to just put them in a crib in another room and shut the door and take care of yourself. Most abusive violence to babies comes from mothers, and sometimes it started with wanting to be there for every little shit and cry until they reached a no sleep breaking point. Rule number one for parents is to take care of themselves first as long as the kid is healthy, they are far more brittle than their offspring (case in point covid). Watch out for the terrible 2s which can last from 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 easily lol

mell says

Your baby stays alive with me

Lol. My wife tells me this all the time. "You just keep the kids alive." I'm like no shit? What's the alternative?

I'm a Bill Burr type personality wise. Not as funny. But I'm raw. I also have boys, so it's easier in a sense to shoot the shit. I passively have told a friends daughter to fuck off when she was annoying me... she always does and she knows it... Regretted it as she is 11, but I'm used to my boys and did I mention she's annoying. She wasn't upset and laughed (she won that battle) and the parents gave no shits. If I did that in Chicago or Oak Park, IL I'd be immediately arrested for some reason.

mell says

Watch out for the terrible 2s which can last from 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 easily lol

I'm in the terrible 12's currently. Voice change action going on. 20 minute showers and clogged drains... we all know what's going on there. I really need to have the real talk here soon, not the school one, but have been avoiding it. I was viewing porn online at my oldest kids age.

Have fun with the baby DhammaStep. The fun is only just beginning. lol.

WookieMan says

mell says

Your baby stays alive with me

Lol. My wife tells me this all the time. "You just keep the kids alive." I'm like no shit? What's the alternative?

I'm a Bill Burr type personality wise. Not as funny. But I'm raw. I also have boys, so it's easier in a sense to shoot the shit. I passively have told a friends daughter to fuck off when she was annoying me... she always does and she knows it... Regretted it as she is 11, but I'm used to my boys and did I mention she's annoying. She wasn't upset and laughed (she won that battle) and the parents gave no shits. If I did that in Chicago or Oak Park, IL I'd be immediately arrested for some reason.

Same. Told some nasty bay area kids to shut up in the restaurant, the look on their parents faces is priceless. But then I usually proceed and say "your parents are paying top dollar to have a nice meal at a nice restaurant, show them 1 hour of respect", which they can relate to. I told my wife that the 18 month year old either gets disciplined in the restaurant if he yells and screams, topples the high chair and fucks shit up, or, if she doesn't like that, we don't go out to nicer/slower restaurants with him. She chose the latter, fine with me. We still swing by the local tacqueria or burger place regularly for a quick drink/beer and food, but it's beyond me why parents take their kids to nice expensive restaurants only to have them annoy the shit out of everybody. Some kids are easy, but boys usually take until 2 1/2 to 3 years (sometimes longer) to take them out to nice restaurants, until then, outdoor places and quick and family friendly budget places. It is totally possible to train your kid earlier, but not without disciplining it, and that's not for everyone.

WookieMan says

mell says

Watch out for the terrible 2s which can last from 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 easily lol

I'm in the terrible 12's currently. Voice change action going on. 20 minute showers and clogged drains... we all know what's going on there. I really need to have the real talk here soon, not the school one, but have been avoiding it. I was viewing porn online at my oldest kids age.

Have fun with the baby DhammaStep. The fun is only just beginning. lol.

Oldest is 12 soon, so far mostly smooth sailing since the terrible 2s. Rrely a normal boys fight at school, more so breaking rules and etiquette around electronics.

mell says

Yep most don't, we're mostly wired that way. I can take physical care of any baby probably better than 80% of mothers,

WookieMan says

Lol. My wife tells me this all the time. "You just keep the kids alive." I'm like no shit? What's the alternative?

That's my perspective.

Remember that 80% of men are better at everything than 80% of women 80% of the time. And that 80% of child abuse comes from the bio mother. Everybody else is only 20%, from Weird Uncle Lester to Shack Up Stud Steve to Grandma to Nannies. Bio Fathers are actually highly unlikely to do damage relative to length of contact. Yet every Child Abuse PSA features "Evil Dad", because it's Socially more acceptable to both Feminist Leftoids and Tradcucks to go after the least likely culprit rather than the #1 danger, and most people/orgs are cowards.

Also, it's looking more like it's 1/3 Genetics, 1/3 Nurture, and 1/3 how those genetics mix together in an unknown fashion/mutations and react to the environment. You're really responsible for maybe half of the child's personality, not the whole thing. Do your best. That's why in the old days, 5 kids raised exactly the same with the same parents, 1 huge success, 3 okay, and 1 child in and out of prison or an Alkie Hobag Single mom.

I'm lucky my kid is a natural independent guy, I encourage it. He also likes to make a buck for chores, so I encourage that.

mell says

WookieMan says

Men don't have patience really.

Yep most don't, we're mostly wired that way. I can take physical care of any baby probably better than 80% of mothers, know what to watch out for and how to treat. Your baby stays alive with me, whatever happens. However when it comes to bitching and crying and screaming, to not sleeping or fucking shit up where I said no twice you will get zero patience and 100% consequences. That's why when they are newborns/infants, it's often better to just put them in a crib in another room and shut the door and take care of yourself. Most abusive violence to babies comes from mothers, and sometimes it started with wanting to be there for every little shit and cry until they reached a no sleep breaking point. Rule number one for parents is to take care of themselves first as long as the kid is healthy, they are far more brittle than their ...

Pretty solid advice. OP - don't forget boundaries and discipline.

I'm a father of a 14 year old boy. For what it's worth, in no particular order:

My wife and I always planned on her nursing him for as long as she would be able. When he was first born, he had trouble latching to the nipple. La Leche League (this was in TX) was a great help and resource, because doctors will try to get you to put the baby on formula ASAP. I was enraged that they were trying to guilt trip a vulnerable new mother onto the chemical treadmill. If there are latching problems, the newborn (assuming he/she is full-term) has enough fat reserves for a few days until mother and child learn to work with each other.

One key with nursing (and LLL will tell you this) - it's not about quantity, but frequency. The tit needs to be regularly excercised, and will expand its capacity over time. If your wife has limited production, that's OK , but she'll have to feed the baby a dozen or more times a day. Cosleeping can also help because the baby is always near the tit. Breast pumps are a poor substitute for mouth-on-tit. Breast milk contains tryptophan, which causes the baby to fall asleep (and the mother too). Feedings should be a time of relaxation and rest for them both. You'll have to keep track of what your wife is eating in case something in the breast milk causes a problem. My wife had to avoid certain foods because it gave the baby bad gas. A psycho relative of hers, in contrast, didn't do this and the child was chronically suffering intestinal issues.

For newborns - constant body contact works wonders. Swaddling also comforts the baby - after all, it has been curled up snugly in a womb for the last 9 months.

I agree with the poster who advised to learn the different crying sounds. Tired is a little more whiny than the ones for hunger, etc. In our case, we just developed a checklist - baby cries for all these things (I think it was 5 things), so run through the checklist. Remember one or both of you will be very sleep deprived.

Be watchful for signs of post-partum depression. This can be very dangerous, especially if the mother is the sole caregiver. If your wife has a network, make sure that it's ready to go once the child is born; ideally, she won't be left alone until it's clear that she's not having psychological issues. Post-partum is becoming more common these days, especially for women who are used to working and then have their life thrown upside down by 24-7 infant care. Full disclosure - my wife gave up her "career" to care for our son, and she developed PPD.

Developmentally, the first 3 months are the roughest in that the baby can't even sit up. At about 6 months things get better, because the infant can move around. Some children will walk as early as 9 months. It's hilarious to watch them walk, because their heads are so big relative to their bodies that they rock back and forth while they're doing it. Our child was an early walker, but didn't start talking until he was almost 2.5 year old. Every child develops differently - the nomographs and the way schools are structured convince people it's one size fits all. Mothers will brag about "my child does this," and it was very hard for my wife to get past her expectations when our boy still wasn't talking at 2 years.
old. Fast forward to now, and my boy is almost as tall as me, wears a size bigger shoe, and (before he hit puberty) would talk your ear off for hours.

For preschool we did Montessori - our boy liked it. Montessori believed that children become receptive to certain types of learning at different times, so they don't push X at time Y, but observe the children for signs of interest.

For toys, a small variety is good to start with, just to see what the child prefers. Some children like to work with their hands, while others act out stories. Our boy loved LEGO and the Thomas/Brio trains. Young children are extremely suggestible when it comes to movies, tv, computer - media in general. To a large part, and this is why advertising is so repetitive, what people like is directly proportional to how many times they see or listen to it. The only way to counteract this process is to use counter-programming techniques like Harry Palmer in "The Ipcress File." Young children haven't practiced counter-programming techniques, so they are readily susceptible.

When our son was around 5 years old, we introduced him to Buster Keaton's "The General." We were shocked when it became his favorite film for a good year or so. There was only one problem - he couldn't read the subtitles. When they would pop-up, he would say "Read!" That being said, some silent films are great for younger children, especially if you have a big screen, because they are a visual medium and teach facial expression.

Other random hacks:

Never give your child candy or chocolates with the outer wrapper on. If they don't know what the package looks like, they'll not throw tantrums at the grocery store checkout.

If a child watches TV and wants what's on the TV, go ahead and find an image on the intarwebs, print it out and laminate it to make it drool proof, and give it to him. The trick here is that young children can't extrapolate (unless he's a 5-sigma genius) 2D images to 3D, so they think it's the real thing. Our boy had plenty of laminated space shuttles and other rockets.

For teething pain, a really great cure is frozen organic blueberries. Make sure they're small - the regular blueberries might present a choking hazard. They are delicious and highly nutritious.

Choline is critically important for fat metabolism, so make sure your child eats as many eggs as possible. Eggs and liver have the highest concentrations of choline, but eggs are a lot more palatable.

If a child doesn't tolerate dairy, make sure you find out what's causing it. It could be lactose intolerance, in which case the child can have fermented dairy where the lactose has been converted, like yogurt, cheese, etc. If it's the milk protein, then that's worse, because fermented dairy is out as well.

Avoid any soy like the plague, especially if you have a boy. Soy is an estrogen mimic.

Boys like things that are tall or go high. Get some cheap nesting boxes that you can stack up real high. Get a cheap model rocket set and take him to the park to chase after it. By federal law, rockets are legal everywhere as long as they aren't coming down on houses or people. We were shooting off rockets in the park one day, and a cop came by. When he asked what we were doing, we were friendly and said "My son and I are lauching model rockets." We shot off a couple so that he could see that we knew what we were doing, and at the end, he said "I remember when I was a boy and we used to do this." I think we made his day.

Expose your child to the music you like (within reason - no Megadeth, Misfits, SOD, NWA at least until he's in his tweens/teens. Check out if there are local classical concert events nearby. Sometimes churches or other groups offer free concerts with amateur or pro-musicians. Protect your child's hearing by not exposing him to music that is mega-compressed (anything other than classical since 1993 because of the "loudness wars."

Show your child what quality is. Quality, nutritious foods. Have a decent sound system so that he can hear what good reproduction sounds like. NO HEADPHONES.

Young children love the outdoors. Encourage this.

If you're worried about lead contamination from living in an old house, get a good air cleaner. Depending on where you live, you might find IQAir cleaners use. These are $1K machines, but they are beasts and will completely clean the air of even viruses. It usually takes 1-2 years to purge the air in the ducts, etc. Once you see silvery ash (human skin) in the filters, you know you've eliminated the bad stuff.

Other used stuff if you come across it - Thermax steam cleaners are great for dealing with puke or doodie accidents on carpet. Used quality toys - legos, brio trains, lincoln logs.

As long as it doesn't present a health risk, get used stuff. Kids are cheap apart from daycare, and you need to save your money for when they get really expensive later on - besides college ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), there are lessons and activities that cost $ - $$$, and what about bicycles ($$) or a car ($$$$$), or car insurance ($$$).

Best thread I've seen on here in a long time. And the most important one.

NuttBoxer says

Best thread I've seen on here in a long time. And the most important one.

I'd agree. I'm pretty sure active users are all men and likely 70-80% have a child somewhere... lol. Little disagreement.

I disagree with sterotomy on the music thing is the only one I caught. I was listening to Public Enemy when I was 8 or 9. Modern music is exponentially worse than that. It's massively more vulgar and sexual. Megadeth is nothing. There's also good metal that is poetry(esk). Listen to Opeth. That's heavy music, growling vocals, but no vulgar lyrics. Swedish. The songs feel like stories. Think lord of the rings with distorted guitar.

Female musicians might be the worst right now. It's all anger and a bitchy catfight. Definitely would not want my daughter if I had one listening to that shit. That's for a different thread though.

Huge thanks to everyone in this thread that offered advice. It's all invaluable.

Now, can anyone remind me what eight hours of sleep felt like again?

Give it a few years, you'll remember.

DhammaStep says

Huge thanks to everyone in this thread that offered advice. It's all invaluable.

Now, can anyone remind me what eight hours of sleep felt like again?

Haha, I'm a grandfather now and going through it again. Although not on a full time basis.

DhammaStep says

Huge thanks to everyone in this thread that offered advice. It's all invaluable.

Now, can anyone remind me what eight hours of sleep felt like again?

I could sleep 10 hours no problem pre-kids. I'm lucky to get 3-4 now. Not a joke. All mine are 10 plus age wise at this point. I'm just an insomniac and it sucks. Don't know if it was the kids or just natural/aging. It's been really bad lately. Took a break from weed for a job. Wife is traveling I think I might pound some tonight. I don't think I've had any since February.

Hope it's going well as I know this is an old(ish) post. One thing I'll say is time flies. I'm an hour from being 40 and I never thought I'd have a kid that calls me Shrek and tells me to "shut up Shrek" in the middle of a basketball game. We troll each other. Wife hates it, but it's fun for me and I think him. I didn't have a connection with my dad, so I've made an effort to have one even though it's pure sarcasm most the time.

Oh and don't freak out when your kid breaks a bone or has a problem. My youngest has poison ivy on his fucking face right now. His face looks like a balloon. Eyes don't open. He looks like a dip shit. I'd bet 8 out of 10 moms would have a fucking freak out and take the kid to the ER. Shits gonna happen, you gotta stay calm.

WookieMan says

I could sleep 10 hours no problem pre-kids. I'm lucky to get 3-4 now. Not a joke. All mine are 10 plus age wise at this point. I'm just an insomniac and it sucks. Don't know if it was the kids or just natural/aging. It's been really bad lately. Took a break from weed for a job. Wife is traveling I think I might pound some tonight. I don't think I've had any since February.

@DhammaStep - if you have insomnia, try melatonin. It was a godsend to me.

I was hugely resistant on taking "sleep aids", because I know once you get on them, they are hard to get off from, and some are downright dangerous. Ambien is dangerous. I know a guy that took that after a few drinks, and woke up in a jail cell. He had gone out to go shopping, bought more beer, got incredibly drunk, was pulled over with a DUI, and he swears he has no memory of anything. Not getting in the car, not driving to the store, not buying groceries, not being pulled over, not being arrested. It's a blank to him. The last thing he remembers was getting ready to go to bed.

Your body produces melatonin to ALLOW sleep. You can take 10 pills in the morning, and it won't effect you, but it will ALLOW you to sleep. Your body will not produce LESS melatonin if you take it either.

I used to lie awake for hours, exhausted, unable to sleep. It got to the point that I was confusing dreams with reality during the daytime. My neighbor repeatedly suggested melatonin, and I refused it for years. FINALLY, I gave in, and it worked.

Initially I would have extremely intense dreams. I would still wake up exhausted, and I took the pills (5mg?) every night for a month. At the end of the month, I was back to normal for the first time in years. I occasionally take melatonin now, but rarely. It wasn't the least bit addictive to me, and once I caught up on sleep, I didn't need them anymore.

You can buy melatonin at most grocery markets. Here it is on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Melatonin-Tablets-Supporting/dp/B0828K6LF4

I'm a huge promoter of this, because it really helped me.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

You get what you subsidize.