patrick.net

The area occupied by Israel and Gaza was never wholly conquered by the Israelites, against God's decree. They gave up the war before wiping out the region. It's always been settled though, since Abraham's time different groups have lived there. I'm not sure why the debate around it being a country matters if people can trace by their roots for even a few generations, it's their home. This government construct seems to only exist to dehumanize groups people are against, and justify killing them.

And the government of Israel has mis-treated everyone in that region. I saw a documentary years back about them forcing the resettlement of Jews in the West Bank, it was fucked up. But this is real simple. If you support only Israel, or you hate only the occupants of Gaza, watch the video of the kid getting sniped. Read the quotes from the IDF about killing kids, and then tell me why it's ok to hurt children?

NuttBoxer says

Israel locks them in, they can't leave. Appreciate you being honest about your genocidal leanings.

I would think differently had Hamas launched an attack on the Police stations, Military outposts, the wall checkpoints, and the defenses of Israel, they did not.
They targeted young defenseless college kids. Then the folks in Gaza all ran out and celebrated like it was some great war victory.

Moreover I did not advocate bombing them in place. I said give them notice to get out.

Patrick says

And technically it was the Romans who crucified Jesus.

Here's the Biblical account:

1 And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.

2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.

4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.

5 And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.

6 When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.

7 And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.

8 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.

9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

10 And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.

11 And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.

12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

13 And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,

14 Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

15 No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.

16 I will therefore chastise him, and release him.

17 (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

18 And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:

19 (Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)

20 Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.

21 But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.

22 And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.

23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.

24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required. - Luke 23: 1-24

The Apostle Paul wrote the following:

“For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:”
“Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:” - I Thessalonians 2:14,15

Sure, I know it well, just saying that it was the Romans who actually did it. Do they have no responsibility for whom they kill?

NuttBoxer says

For these reasons the accurate word to describe Abraham's religion would be Christian, new Jew.

This is very similar to the Muslim argument that Abraham and Jesus were Muslims.

AmericanKulak says

Palestine was never a country

I worked with a "Palestinian American" at my last job.

He was born in the mid 1940's in Jordan which is now today the West Bank.

His birth certificate states he was born in Jordan.

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The Ashkenazi make up about 35% of the 6 million in Israel and look European.

Do they look like the ancestors they claim and who lived in Israel 2500 years ago ?
.

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Yes, the 50% of Israel that are Sephardi look more Palestinian. One example of a Sephardi is below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Dweck

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Jews are somewhat mixed with the surrounding populations wherever they live.

There are Jews in India that look entirely Indian.

NuttBoxer says

Nope. Israel was replaced by the church, this was always the logical transition of God's plan. Not a specific denomination or physical building in Rome or elsewhere, but believers who have God within them through the Holy Spirit.

Nope, show me the verse. The Church is the Church, Israel is an ethnos, the sons of Abraham, given an unconditional covenant.

Does God lie and go back on His promises?

NuttBoxer says

They're just against war. Obviously you're for it, despite I believe you understanding wars are impossible without banks. When's the last time you opened your wallet brother?

Really? Go browse their Venezuela section. Just "West sucks, leave my dictators alone" bullshit.

RayAmerica says

The Apostle Paul wrote the following:

“For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:”
“Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:” - I Thessalonians 2:14,15

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. - Romans 11

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. - Romans 11:17-22

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deuteronomy 30:1

Replacement theology is false:

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is distinct from Israel, and the terms church and Israel are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings of the Mosaic Covenant were valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God’s program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion (see Romans 11).

https://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

John 19:1

1 Pilate then took Jesus and scourged Him.
2 And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him;
3 and they began to come up to Him and say, “Hail, King of the Jews!” and to give Him slaps in the face.

The Soldiers Mock Jesus (Mark 16)
16 The Legionaries led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers.
17 They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him.
18 And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!”
19 Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him.
20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him.

Where was the Legion stationed there raised? Gaul. So the French killed Jesus with the Roman Imperialist Collaborating Priests pushing for it. Of course, that's NOT THE Fing Point. The point is the Word became True and Men killed their own Savior.

Tenpoundbass says

They targeted young defenseless college kids. Then the folks in Gaza all ran out and celebrated like it was some great war victory.

Moreover I did not advocate bombing them in place. I said give them notice to get out.

And if they can't leave, still raise it? You see how your statement draws me to advocating genocide?

Now they did take an army base and several military targets, but you bring up a good point. Why attack a festival with international attendees that guaranteed to immediately build a huge international backlash? There's no benefit, it hurts their cause. But I'd step back even further and ask why the most heavily fortified and surveilled border in the world was so easily breached with fucking hang gliders?

Of course, all this is sidebar. The restoration of Israel, the ethnos, is a precondition to the End Times. It's a sign everybody ought to repent as the Word is revealed in the World.

Just like Jews aren't uniquely bad in the OT for constantly falling away; the purpose of the OT is to set the stage for Jesus, to show that you can't be saved by works of obedience or ritual, and that even when a group of men are given blessings of God, it's not enough without the sacrifice of Jesus.

Patrick says

This is very similar to the Muslim argument that Abraham and Jesus were Muslims.

Of course not, they were Christians, and majority of major religions in the world stem from Christianity, including Islam. The parallel's are undeniable, they all stole from Christianity, but warped it to their own ends. Just like the Puritans in America, and modern day Jews in Israel.

This was actually a point I had not considered until I read something by Torba, and it definitely rang true. Zionism is a close second in this country behind Puritanism when it comes to influencing conservative Christians, and Americans in general.

Patrick says

Jews are somewhat mixed with the surrounding populations wherever they live.

There are Jews in India that look entirely Indian.

Yes, in fact they are really good people.

Patrick says

Jews are somewhat mixed with the surrounding populations wherever they live.

There are Jews in India that look entirely Indian.

Let's bring this further back, Ismael was Israel's brother, and all Muslims trace back to him. And as I mentioned Israelite's mixed with the various tribes they never fully conquered, adopting their sick religions, leading to many sacks of Jerusalem, and eventually the Diaspora.

NuttBoxer says

Just like the Puritans in America, and modern day Jews in Israel.

This was actually a point I had not considered until I read something by Torba, and it definitely rang true. Zionism is definitely a close second in this country behind Puritanism when it comes to influencing conservative Christians, and Americans in general.

The Puritans are amazing, they were key to the foundation of this country, revamped the legal process for better evidence after the Witch Trials, were incredibly devout and dedicated to the Savior. And insisted on the sovereignity of local Churches.

Torba is a FIB Jesuit Agent that never runs out of money and runs a honeypot. His outward appearance is that of a devout, but his "All Christians" is a misleading tactic on his part:

if he is the diehard trad of the Church he subscribes to, then he believes there is no salvation outside of it for Baptists, Methodists, etc. But, he also selectively rejects other Church teachings that don't mesh with his beliefs.

I know he rails about Spurgeon and Darby and has the whole "Bad Britain" thing going on for his Central European Unbiblical superstitions.

AmericanKulak says

Nope, show me the verse. The Church is the Church, Israel is an ethnos, the sons of Abraham, given an unconditional covenant.

Does God lie and go back on His promises?

The covenant was that God would bless the world through them. Jesus was that blessing. God never promised them superiority over anyone, and if you read through the Old Testament prophets, warned them numerous times of what would happen if they failed to follow Him. God never promised to exempt anyone from the consequences of sin, or from the repercussions of denying Jesus Christ His Son. Hell will be full of Jews, as in order to be a true Jew you must deny Christ, never receiving the gift of reconciliation provided by God.

The Tabernacle curtain was torn, the need for sacrifices ended. The 10 Commandments and all the Israelite law was never to bring salvation, but to point to the need for redemption through Christ. Remove all of that and all have left are an ethnic people remembering history, not a religion. Fanatics don't make a religion, they make a cult.

NuttBoxer says

Why attack a festival with international attendees that guaranteed to immediately build a huge international backlash? There's no benefit, it hurts their cause.

Uh - because Islamists are primitive retarded dirt bags? The stupidest and most uneducated people in the world live in Muslim/Arab countries where their religion has brainwashed them into extremism and anti-Semitism.

Al Qaeda attacking the US on 9/11 was pretty fucking stupid and guaranteed their destruction. Both Al Qaeda and ISIS were driven into dust and got a big portion of their home countries destroyed in the process and no major attacks in the US for 20+ years.

Until this latest atrocity, the Sunni Muslim world was coming to terms with Israel's existence and Saudi Arabia was on the cusp of formal relations with Israel.

Of course Iran and the Islamists in Gaza were against peaceful coexistence between Sunnis and Israelis - so here we are today.

Yet many on this forum are busy constructing crazy "satanist" conspiracy theories to justify your hatred of Jews and even your home country.

AmericanKulak says

Really? Go browse their Venezuela section. Just "West sucks, leave my dictators alone" bullshit.

Sounds like you advocate for Imperialism. Still hearing pro-war. Aren't any Venezuelans writing for that publication that I know of, just people against war. Aren't you against war?

NuttBoxer says

God never promised them superiority over anyone, and if you read through the Old Testament prophets, warned them numerous times of what would happen if they failed to follow Him.

Nobody made this argument. Other than being in control of Israel (and there are physical boundaries God sets on Israel beyond which he'll withdraw his hand), no superiority is promised to Jews.

Again, the entire OT is to set up the NT and the End Times, and be the demonstrator that Men are unable to elect their own salvation by obedience to Laws or Ritual.

NuttBoxer says

Hell will be full of Jews, as in order to be a true Jew you must deny Christ, never receiving the gift of reconciliation provided by God.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 11:25-26 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion;he will turn godlessness away from Jacob."

That above verse is NOT discussing the First Coming; it's part of the Epistles, the crucifixion has already happened. The verse is about the future.

NuttBoxer says

Only some US Outlets and maybe half of Indian Media is neutral to pro-Israel.

Though it has started turning right, India is a far left country for very long time with Communists and Muslims funded through NGOs etc by foreign entities and running so many media outlets who are anti-Indian. Obviously they are anti Israel as well.
In reality all right leaning population support Israel all the time. Poor Israel is surrounded by very bad countries and having very tough environment.

Blue says

NuttBoxer says

Only some US Outlets and maybe half of Indian Media is neutral to pro-Israel.

Though it has started turning right, India is a far left country for very long time with Communists and Muslims funded through NGOs etc by foreign entities and running so many media outlets who are anti-Indian. Obviously they are anti Israel as well.
In reality all right leaning population support Israel all the time. Poor Israel is surrounded by very bad countries and having very tough environment.

I think that was my quote, but the quote system isn't working great on here sometimes.

Great thing about India is that so many got wise to the Congress Socialist-for-the-rich Scam and moving the country towards growth and prosperity. A lot of work to be done but very inspiring for the world that finds itself in the grip of Globalist Socialism.

socal2 says

Uh - because Islamists are primitive retarded dirt bags? The stupidest and most uneducated people in the world live in Muslim/Arab countries where their religion has brainwashed them into extremism and anti-Semitism.

There we are, you've admitted to being an avid racist and bigot, and therefore I'm sure you're ok with killing kids. There's definitely groups I don't like, but I would never dehumanize them like you have. This is what brainwashed extremism does to people. All I've advocated for is an equal claim to suffering by all citizens in this conflict. But you're racist views won't allow you that middle ground. I don't have time for people so full of hatred for their fellow man.

AmericanKulak says

Again, the entire OT is to set up the NT and the End Times

You keep referencing this, but it's a mis-interpretation of scripture. I recently read a study of Revelations, and while I don't agree with everything the author said, as he pretty much takes all the prophecy out of it, or kind of skips over it, he does make some good points that invalidate the theory of the 144k coming from Israel literally. There's a lot of that kind of Zionist teaching in American Christianity. God didn't need a group of people based on nationality, ethnicity, or any other worldy classifications after Jesus, just the church. A spiritual kingdom. Another stumbling block as many Israelite's saw the coming of the Messiah as their freedom from Rome. Jesus made it clear in a number of places, that was never the kingdom He would establish. So after Him all references to a worldly physical kingdom are mis-representations of that same Jewish teaching.

AmericanKulak says

The Puritans are amazing, they were key to the foundation of this country, revamped the legal process for better evidence after the Witch Trials, were incredibly devout and dedicated to the Savior. And insisted on the sovereignity of local Churches.

They literally thought themselves better than others. The roots of Eugenics, our current government structure, the Civil War, all point back to them. A group of people who think they have the right to play God and force their world on everyone else.

I believe I posted that alternative take on the War Between the States here. I recommend reading it.

NuttBoxer says

There we are, you've admitted to being an avid racist and bigot, and therefore I'm sure you're ok with killing kids.

I said Islamist not Muslims. Do you not know the difference?

Not all Muslims are retrograde barbarians like we see in Hamas, Al Qaeda, ISIS and large portions of Iran's leadership.

These Islamist fuckers proudly show their handy work so their like minded fanboys can jerk off to their snuff films of murdering, raping and ethnically cleansing Jews and Christians from the Middle East.

So yes - I will continue dehumanize these fuckers (and their Western fanboys) until the cows come home.

AmericanKulak says

That above verse is NOT discussing the First Coming; it's part of the Epistles, the crucifixion has already happened. The verse is about the future.

But you get what I'm saying with that belief right? Putting one group of people above every other, and it's not the church. Pretty fucking self centered for any people to claim that, even if it was the church. I would never put myself above a non-believer. I didn't do anything to earn my salvation, I just was honest and broken enough to understand I needed God. And I sure as fuck still sin plenty now. And it's not right.

Israel was singled out to serve God, not be served by Him. Any other interpretation is so prideful I don't know what else I can call it if not Zionism..

NuttBoxer says

But you get what I'm saying with that belief right? Putting one group of people above every other, and it's not the church. Pretty fucking self centered for any people to claim that, even if it was the church. I would never put myself above a non-believer. I didn't do anything to earn my salvation, I just was honest and broken enough to understand I needed God. And I sure as fuck still sin plenty now. And it's not right.

Israel was singled out to serve God, not be served by Him. Any other interpretation is so prideful I don't know what else I can call it if not Zionism..

The First shall be Last. I'm only quoting scripture. Nowhere does it say Jews are above anybody. Also check the story of the Prodigal Son, which is also related.

NuttBoxer says

They literally thought themselves better than others. The roots of Eugenics, our current government structure, the Civil War, all point back to them. A group of people who think they have the right to play God and force their world on everyone else.

No, Eugenics is rooted in Galton.

I urge you to look at who backed and supported Eugenics. It's not who you think. An HQ of one of the biggest Eugenics groups was in Minneapolis. Here's one of the biggest populizers of Eugenics, the Eugenics version of Michio Kako is to physics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fremont_Dight

There's a reason NPR and Old Yankees don't like to bring up the involuntary sterilzation of millions of mostly poor White Girls. Feminists, Liberal Churches, Fabian Socialists, and Old Wealth. The biggest opponents of it were Fundamentalists and Catholics.

John Maynard Keynes was the British Leader of Eugenics, btw. George Bernard Shaw was big on it too.

Here it is in Britain:
https://anti-empire.com/eugenics-the-skeleton-that-rattles-loudest-in-the-lefts-closet/

Russian state propaganda supports a terrorist attack on Israel

Correspondent of the "Komsomolskaya Pravda" Dmitry Steshin writes that he has no pity for the murdered women and children

State channel host Sergei Mardan writes that the massacre in Israel is beneficial to Russia

https://twitter.com/den_kazansky/status/1710595778396246032

I know who Margaret Sanger is. But she was from NY, and definitely didn't coin moral superiority. Don't fucking tell me Puritans didn't consider themselves morally superior, think about the fucking word man, PURitan, c'mon!

We know a lot of the same truths, but maybe because you aren't as close to conservative churches as I've been, you aren't aware of the Zionist under-current that allows peaceful people to advocate war without a second thought whenever Israel is involved. People who never bothered to learn about the USS Liberty.

.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12610107/Tattoo-artist-Shani-Louk-naked-body-Hamas-Israel.html

Shani Louk grew up in Israel and refused to join the Israeli military because she was a pacifist. She became a German citizen.

She was one of the 250 who were murdered at the music peace festival by Hamas.

.

NuttBoxer says

I know who Margaret Sanger is. But she was from NY, and definitely didn't coin moral superiority. Don't fucking tell me Puritans didn't consider themselves morally superior, think about the fucking word man, PURitan, c'mon!

Margeret Sanger was born in Upstate NY to lapsed "Freethinking" Catholics and apparently was member of a liberalized Dutch Reformed Church. She was also a feminist.

Puritanism is about PURIFYING the Anglican Church with more Calvinist and Biblical Doctrine. Have you read the Puritans? They agonized over their salvation and paths to it. For a while it was the fashion to name kids "PraiseGod Barebones" to emphasize the inability of Man to save themselves.

There's a ton of cheap kindle books about Puritan writings, please take a skim of them.

Many brag about all their "Considering all sides" but it's very clear they depend on one or a small group of sources and never check the claims there against mainstream or oppositional stances.

NuttBoxer says

People who never bothered to learn about the USS Liberty.

Dude, I have posts on here about the USS Liberty. Probably dozens. You'll learn how a handful of crew went back on their sworn testimony, the holy Ship's Log, etc. years after they gave it when prompted and flattered with attention from biased writers seeking to interview them. Or how the Liberty was way off course due to a combination of jamming and 6th Fleet's inadequate radio transmission system, which was immediately fixed in the weeks following by the USN. Nor did the attack last "Hours"

Wow. People are still very easily manipulated. Just kill a bunch of people and a government that just tried to inject you with God knows what suddenly is the paragon of truth and nobility.

Oh well.

richwicks says

Wow. People are still very easily manipulated. Just kill a bunch of people and a government that just tried to inject you with God knows what suddenly is the paragon of truth and nobility.

AmericanKulak says

Many brag about all their "Considering all sides" but it's very clear they depend on one or a small group of sources and never check the claims there against mainstream or oppositional stances.

Oh well.

richwicks says

Wow. People are still very easily manipulated.

I never said anything of the sort. So I am not sure why you spend that much effort on your keyboard with this gaslighting attempt.

I just thought it was ironic that Hamas is on video killing a Jewish female peace activist who had refused to join the Israeli military.

Hamas showed no mercy with the peace concert attendees.

.

ad says

Hamas showed no mercy with the peace concert attendees.

The answer is easy:

It was either only a few deaths of those that resisted and some kidnappings for hostage exchange - the "Moderate" position
OR
The ZioBritish Lugenpresse made it all up.

ad says

I never said anything of the sort. So I am not sure why you spend that much effort on your keyboard with this gaslighting attempt.

I'm pointing out that people are immediately absorbing "the narrative".

We have a news media that lied about the Iraq War, Libya, Syria, lied about vaccinations, lied about the pandemic, lied about mostly peaceful protests, lied about January 6, lied about a lot more, but nearly everybody above is drawing conclusions.

You can't know what is going on or what even happened. Why are you drawing conclusions?