patrick.net

See what an Amazon warehouse employee actually has to do? Those Robots are scanning or labeling anything. They didn't open a big box from one shipper receiver and open and sort them into separate bins. That video above is just a staged propaganda video, at no point in that video, are those Robots performing an actual Amazon task that a human counter part is doing. The work station those Robots are using are not anything like the offshoot conveyor next to a terminal, scanner, and label printer. They are just lifting an undisclosed amount of weight, just like every other Boston Dynamics LARP video where they are the star of the show.


original link

I agree, this is more propaganda to intimidate workers. Those robots cost $100's of thousands of dollars, and require regular maintenance. They aren't even close to replacing human beings.

Robots are NOT cheaper than people, generally. They are very expensive, and they regularly break down. No self-repair on a robot.

I think Amazon employees should call the bluff and challenge Amazon to replace all human workers. That would bankrupt Amazon.

richwicks says

I think Amazon employees should call the bluff and challenge Amazon to replace all human workers. That would bankrupt Amazon.

That is where the hordes of illegals come in.

Or at least challenge them to which could carry a crate from a bin the quickest. Did you see the bot in the back, try to stack the crate in a bin that was already occupied, then it had to do down?

None of these robot manufacturers has showcased a robot that has performed meticulous tasks or even capable of performing them.
Those arms and hands are strong and made for lifting. They showcase them being agile, I still think the construction robots were CGI.
Those robots would have to have multiple arms specialized for different tasks. They will never perfect a bipedal humanoid robot to perform the tasks humans do. Sure they could make a conveyor that rips open boxes, then another bot takes items out and sends them down a shoot where they get scanned and sorted. I don't think those robots at the top could perform the simple task the girl in the second video was doing.

Self-driving cars sure disappeared quick, along with super power Goggles.

Like Vampire Movies, every 20 years it's front and center for a season then disappears

Looks like it's stoned, just like a real, live employee!

AmericanKulak says

Self-driving cars sure disappeared quick, along with super power Goggles.

These are marketing campaigns, that failed.

We will eventually have self driving vehicles, but we need to rethink our infrastructure to do it. If we invested in infrastructure, it would be trivial.

The spy glasses? I don't know if those will ever be accepted and I doubt it. I don't think VR will ever be really embraced either. VR was the "big thing" for decades, but experiencing it, even I have no interest in it, and I fervently believed I did at one point.

richwicks says

The spy glasses? I don't know if those will ever be accepted and I doubt it. I don't think VR will ever be really embraced either. VR was the "big thing" for decades, but experiencing it, even I have no interest in it, and I fervently believed I did at one point.

I think the only reason they can keep trotting out spy glasses is that there are plenty of pseudos who wear fake glasses in the hope that people will then think that they're smart. I remember the fad back in the 80's - it was pathetic. The media doesn't help either, always slapping glasses on "scientists."

Tenpoundbass says

See what an Amazon warehouse employee actually has to do?

Interesting video, but a sad representation of what this country has become. She is a consumption worker. Consumption should never be part of GDP.

Contrast that sad video to what a production worker does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5i10jDaUCc

richwicks says

We will eventually have self driving vehicles, but we need to rethink our infrastructure to do it.

If we ever have self driving cars, they wont be made with a hodgepodge of delicate silicon chips and flimsy micro circuits like they are today.
I don't think our best tech is up to the task, we've gone backwards in robustness, and reliability. Which is what self driving cars need, not only do they need to be made out of space grade discrete circuits, the batteries will need be reimagined. The batteries that are used now, has a tendency to short circuit, when the vehicle flexes over a curb, or uneven surface. The batteries are on the bottom of the frame like a skid plate. It is prone to every flex of all 4 wheels. Until we can come up with a battery that you can puncture, short and set on fire, and it can be extinguished as quickly as the fire started. The electric car will only grow more and more with a reputation as a death trap. The electric car as we know it today, Tesla included. Will be deemed a Death Trap, and outright banned to own, and forbidden to park within any structure or dwelling where humans live. Mark my words.

The electric car as we have it today, just screams, Greenies pushing a proof of concept that wasn't quite ready yet for primetime, but some Idiot Shit Flinger President gave out billions in subsidies to make it sort of work, at a time hoverboards were exploding and burning down houses.

Lol I use to work on warehouse automation, that video is a joke. No good reason to make robots even remotely like humans that would be to complex, fragile, and costly to maintain.

https://youtu.be/SuD9gsaOqGc?si=VHwFHIDZUkrB4xZK

Tenpoundbass says

hich is what self driving cars need, not only do they need to be made out of space grade discrete circuits, the batteries will need be reimagined.

I think EV's are a dead end. They actually use more energy over their lifetime than an ICE engine does.

richwicks says

I think EV's are a dead end. They actually use more energy over their lifetime than an ICE engine does.

Agreed..

I think a small combustion engine, powering an electric generator directly with no batteries what so ever is viable.
When you consider, that you can get a generator that takes 5 gallons of gas, that can then run 4 to 5 hours.
Just imagine how far a car can travel in 4 to 5 hours, just on 5 gallons of gas.

I can see that setup going 300 to 400 miles on 5 gallons. That hasn't been done, because the greenies are so bent on force fucking the battery into every electric car. They are stupid with that. An electric car doesn't need a battery. The hybrid was the dumbest fucking idea of all.. Toyota should have ditched the battery, and put a 5 to 7 hp motor in the Prius, powering a generator, with a bank of capacitors between the electric motors and the generator, to give it the volts and amperage needed.

Tenpoundbass says

I think a small combustion engine, powering an electric generator directly with no batteries what so ever is viable.
When you consider, that you can get a generator that takes 5 gallons of gas, that can then run 4 to 5 hours.
Just imagine how far a car can travel in 4 to 5 hours, just on 5 gallons of gas.

No, this wouldn't be efficient. You have loss in generating the electricity, and then loss in consuming it.

The real problem is cars weigh too much and they produce too much drag in the air. Nearly every car would be more efficient if you drove it backwards.

The cars as we know it are so heavy because the components are heavy. Of course if you reduce the drive train to weigh only 1/3rd of what cars weight now, then the rest of the car can be lightweight as well. Cars also don't have to go faster than 40mph in a City setting. It could be done, it might not resemble what a car looks like today, but it doesn't have to.

RC2006 says

No good reason to make robots even remotely like humans that would be to complex, fragile, and costly to maintain.

Back to robot automation issues. The segment in that video that features the Lotus robot designed to reduce the unproductive walking a worker would do in a warehouse. What is the worker supposed to do while he's waiting for the Lotus robot to get back from being unloaded by the worker it went to bring a load to in the warehouse? I can see a scenario, where the worker on the receiving end of the Lotus binging the loaded bins, has four or five of them in queue waiting for him to empty them so they can return. In the meantime, there's four or five folks in the warehouse, waiting for their Lotus to return so they can place the items they already picked and are waiting for the Lotus. While the guy being bombarded by them is overwhelmed. He has the job that nobody wants and probably has the highest turn over or employees calling out for the day. While those other 4 or 5 employees has a prolific TicToc video collection.

Tenpoundbass says

The cars as we know it are so heavy because the components are heavy. Of course if you reduce the drive train to weigh only 1/3rd of what cars weight now, then the rest of the car can be lightweight as well. Cars also don't have to go faster than 40mph in a City setting. It could be done, it might not resemble what a car looks like today, but it doesn't have to.

Oh, I know. Check out this car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHXuoZ1KHdI

They have been "in development" forever. They were about to go to production, some asshole from GM was hired to run the company, he sunk it by demanding redesigns, like you could roll down the window. The entire vehicle is designed for optimal aerodynamic efficiency.

Gets 100 miles to the gallon equivalent, it's electric, but they had ICE versions I think as well. The ride is a little choppy because it's so light, that can be taken care of by electronics, it had real potential. They didn't care about what it looked like, they only cared about efficiency.

It can easily do 70 MPH, but it's probably more suited to city driving, and not highway.

Tenpoundbass says

Back to robot automation issues. The segment in that video that features the Lotus robot designed to reduce the unproductive walking a worker would do in a warehouse. What is the worker supposed to do while he's waiting for the Lotus robot to get back from being unloaded by the worker it went to bring a load to in the warehouse?

It's making the employee into a manager, directing several robots concurrently. The robots reduce the need for space in the warehouse, and increase productivity of human workers.

The robots are doing nothing but moving items placed in their bin from one location to another. The only thing they are replacing is a guy that would be pushing a handtruck or a dolly. There's hardly a million dollar value in replacing such a menial nonskilled task. Especially for something that will break and require costly maintenance. You're better off with a forklift operator.
It is still requiring humans, to reach, grab, remove, and place, then update the inventory and shipping in the ERP.
What they have done here is the equivalent of making an electric spoon for a cook.
That's slick but more a hinderance than a productivity booster.

richwicks says

Oh, I know. Check out this car:

Madness not what I have in mind at all. People are trying too hard to shoehorn what a space aged electric car should look like, into a working viable option.
If you have a light weight car designed to be efficient but not necessarily built for speed. It does NOT have to be arrow dynamic. The speed and force wont be there for the drag to be a major factor.

And everyone poopoos the idea that a gas powered generator can power an electric vehicle with all of their negativity. But in the meantime, every time the power goes out, I hear generators running for 5 hours straight powering people's essential household electrical needs.

Tenpoundbass says

When you consider, that you can get a generator that takes 5 gallons of gas, that can then run 4 to 5 hours.
Just imagine how far a car can travel in 4 to 5 hours, just on 5 gallons of gas.

A jobsite style generator that burns one gallon per hour will not generate enough electricity to power a car, any more than a Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine can replace the engine in a Camry.

stereotomy says

I think the only reason they can keep trotting out spy glasses is that there are plenty of pseudos who wear fake glasses in the hope that people will then think that they're smart. I remember the fad back in the 80's - it was pathetic. The media doesn't help either, always slapping glasses on "scientists."

LOL! I imagine the 'wigs and glasses' and make up auditorium of CNN must be a sight. Every time I look at that CNN junk, it is designed to be dressered, powdered and rouged whores trying to look and speak like they are smarter than thou while they read their lies.

HeadSet says

A jobsite style generator that burns one gallon per hour will not generate enough e

Wanna Bet?

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/gillette-portable-3-phase-generator-gpe-125eh-3-4-10-kw-480-volt-dedicated-22-hp-honda?matchtype=&network=g&device=c&adposition=&keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1YnA9NOHggMVGjfUAR1aJQ3gEAQYBCABEgLl6vD_BwE

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/marathon-electric-farm-duty-shop-motor-5-hp

This would be more than enough power



to power this


Which could then power a compressed air transmission.

That generator is rated at powering that 5hp 3 phase electric motor at 1.3 hours per gallon.

Tenpoundbass says

Madness not what I have in mind at all. People are trying too hard to shoehorn what a space aged electric car should look like

No no no no - this wasn't designed to look like anything at all. It was designed to be optimal in an airstream. This is what a car designed to slide through the air with minimal air disturbance looks like. There might be some modifications to make it more visually appealing, but this was optimized to be efficient.

You end up with a teardrop shape for such a vehicle.

Tenpoundbass says

If you have a light weight car designed to be efficient but not necessarily built for speed. It does NOT have to be arrow dynamic. The speed and force wont be there for the drag to be a major factor.

The Aptera is designed for speed. If you don't care about speed at all, then it's just the motor you worry about.

Tenpoundbass says

And everyone poopoos the idea that a gas powered generator can power an electric vehicle with all of their negativity. But in the meantime, every time the power goes out, I hear generators running for 5 hours straight powering people's essential household electrical needs.

Well, I'm absolutely no expert in this area, but I know if you're going to be running a generator, there's loss, then you need to rectify the signal to DC, and there's loss there, then you need to discharge the batteries / ultra capacitors into a DC motor, and there's loss there.

It's POSSIBLE that at highway speeds, you'd be using minimal energy to keep it going, and you could have very good acceleration at lower speeds. You'd have to go through a bunch of research to find out if it would work. I know there are optimal speeds for a internal combustion engine for efficiency, but would running the engine at the speed offset all the other losses? I don't know.

The frustrating problem is, that with hybrids, they weren't designed to minimize energy consumption, they were designed so you had better acceleration with a crappier motor. I've talked to people that work for major car companies - they don't care about energy efficiency. It's literally the last thing on their mind. I was testing a DC fast charger with a prototype EV Jaguar, and the engineer totally didn't care about energy efficiency. The whole point, in his view, about EV's was the convenience of it. "What about having one in a winter climate?" I asked "Oh, the battery will just heat itself while it's idle, to be at the optimum temperature". The viewpoint of the people making these, at least in Detroit, is convenience. You never will have to go to the gas station again. You'll drive home, plug it in, drive to work, plug it in. The car is heated or cooled by the time you get into it to go to work. There is NO consideration about energy consumption involved.

Tenpoundbass says

That generator is rated at powering that 5hp 3 phase electric motor at 1.3 hours per gallon.

Street legal efficient small electric vehicles already exist:


https://www.clubcar.com/en-us/commercial/street-legal-vehicles/club-car-urban

They have the efficiency of direct drive yet still require much more than 5 hp and top out around 25 mph.

"Compressed air" can store energy for short burst, but the air tank has to be refilled. Anyone running air tools understands this concept. You cannot leverage 5 hp into enough power to run a car at highway speeds through any transfer mechanism, no matter how exotic. Not unless you do something like run that 5 hp engine compressor for several hours to fill a tank that can run the car for a few minutes at highway speed before the pressure runs out.

richwicks says

You'll drive home, plug it in, drive to work, plug it in. The car is heated or cooled by the time you get into it to go to work. There is NO consideration about energy consumption involved.

SO let's look at the panel in your home. You may have a 150 to 200 amp service panel in your home. And then in that panel in a modern home. You have a double 50 amp breaker for the AC, then if you have one of them fancy new fangled tankless water heater, they need 3 60amp breakers, then your stove will have a double 30amp breaker, your kitchen has up to 5 20amp breakers, each appliance has to be on its own 20 amp circuit, and not including the GFI in the bathroom. Then the rest of your circuits up to another 12 15 amp breakers.

Now this is all code and will pass. But if you do the math and add up all of the amps on every breaker you have going there. You're way over your Service panel capacity. This is because you don't' run everything at once. That service coming in from the street, guess what? It's carrying current for a the 20 to 100 houses in your neighborhood, giving each one 150 to 200 amps each. But there's no way in hell it could ever support every house consuming even 50% of the potential power. That is why you get brownouts and blackouts, and your power company offers programs to incentivize you to use less power during peak hours.

I hope by now, you're smart enough to realize where I'm going with this.

Sure the few richer than the rest in the neighborhood, the early adopters, that got an electric car and had their charging station installed, they are all doing fine and dandy. But when everyone in the whole neighborhood, adopts electric cars and has their charging stations installed. Then at quitting time when every working person in that community gets home, at 5 to 6 pm and plugs their car into the chargers. Transformers will start blowing.

Condo buildings are already starting have problems. They allowed so many residents to install charging stations at their parking space. Now as more and more owners are starting to do the same. The incoming service is starting to melt and burning up the main building service mains.

DC power needs the power source close by, the bigger the wire needs to be, it gets to the point, you can't pull a fat enough wire to accommodate the needs for all of those charging stations. You need a power plant near by.

And yes I'm hyping unproven tech, but I'm not saying it's ready and provable. I'm saying I would rather hear about research in these areas rather than the proven nonstarter that electric vehicles are. I believe hydrogen powered cars are more viable as an option for the masses over EVs.

HeadSet says

"Compressed air" can store energy for short burst, but the air tank has to be refilled. Anyone running air tools understands this concept. You cannot leverage 5 hp into enough power to run a car at highway speeds through any transfer mechanism, no matter how exotic. Not unless you do something like run that 5 hp engine compressor for several hours to fill a tank that can run the car for a few minutes at highway speed before the pressure runs out.

The compressor would be to provide torque to get the vehicle going, then the 5hp motor with what ever gear ratio set up you have in a transfer case can take over to keep the car at speed. It may even accelerate fine once the car has enough inertia to allow the electric motor to do it's job.
Your AC runs on a DC 3 phase motor. It needs a start capacitor to get the compressor turning, once that happens, the motor churns the AC compressor just fine. But it wont budge the compressor at a cold start.

My thing is about killing the battery and need to charge them in EVs. Keep Gasoline or any other fuel, but use it to run efficient small engines, rather than huge powertrains.

Tenpoundbass says

The compressor would be to provide torque to get the vehicle going, then the 5hp motor with what ever gear ratio set up you have in a transfer case can take over to keep the car at speed. It may even accelerate fine once the car has enough inertia to allow the electric motor to do it's job.

I see. Not a bad idea. Porshe said that it only takes 15hp to keep a 911 cruising at 60 mph.

The electric motor I posted is capable of providing 1800 RPMs that's over 120mph.
The Air compressor gets the car going up to speed from a dead start. The motor can keep that speed constant. Then for highway acceleration you have an array of high powered Capacitors that fire in succession to provide acceleration once the wheels are moving. Though adding extra amperage to the motor to give it more power. Much like those AC start capacitors. As one discharges, the next one is already charged, and so on and on, by time it gets back to the first one it's fully charged again. Once up to speed the motor can handle keeping it going damn near 120mph only with that 5 hp motor.

Tenpoundbass says

I believe hydrogen powered cars are more viable as an option for the masses over EVs.

Hydrogen is produced through a process called steam reformation using super heated water and natural gas. It's super expensive, but cheaper than if you make it by breaking water into oxygen and hydrogen. Hydrogen isn't viable, at least yet.

Natural gas powered cars would be.

richwicks says

Natural gas powered cars would be.

I have seen natural gas conversions since the 1970s. In the 1990s. Ford gave a fleet of natural gas powered Crown Vics to an Atlanta cab company to test. Virginia Natural Gas has converted all their pickup trucks to run on natural gas.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

Natural gas powered cars would be.

I have seen natural gas conversions since the 1970s. In the 1990s. Ford gave a fleet of natural gas powered Crown Vics to an Atlanta cab company to test. Virginia Natural Gas has converted all their pickup trucks to run on natural gas.

I don't believe they have the range that a conventional gas powered vehicle does, but they are cheap to run, and as I understand it (which may be in gross error), conversion from gas to natural gas is not too difficult or expensive and the engine can run on both fuels. I think it's regulations and taxation that prevents it.

Should invest to improve Amazon worker productivity such as better tools to do their job. This robot looks like R&D waste.

.