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New instalment of tech LARP. The Amazon worker replacement edition
2023 Oct 20, 1:46pm 1,807 views 34 comments
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25
richwicks
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2023 Oct 21, 10:50am
richwicks
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2023 Oct 21, 10:50am
Tenpoundbass says
No no no no - this wasn't designed to look like anything at all. It was designed to be optimal in an airstream. This is what a car designed to slide through the air with minimal air disturbance looks like. There might be some modifications to make it more visually appealing, but this was optimized to be efficient.
You end up with a teardrop shape for such a vehicle.
Tenpoundbass says
The Aptera is designed for speed. If you don't care about speed at all, then it's just the motor you worry about.
Tenpoundbass says
Well, I'm absolutely no expert in this area, but I know if you're going to be running a generator, there's loss, then you need to rectify the signal to DC, and there's loss there, then you need to discharge the batteries / ultra capacitors into a DC motor, and there's loss there.
It's POSSIBLE that at highway speeds, you'd be using minimal energy to keep it going, and you could have very good acceleration at lower speeds. You'd have to go through a bunch of research to find out if it would work. I know there are optimal speeds for a internal combustion engine for efficiency, but would running the engine at the speed offset all the other losses? I don't know.
The frustrating problem is, that with hybrids, they weren't designed to minimize energy consumption, they were designed so you had better acceleration with a crappier motor. I've talked to people that work for major car companies - they don't care about energy efficiency. It's literally the last thing on their mind. I was testing a DC fast charger with a prototype EV Jaguar, and the engineer totally didn't care about energy efficiency. The whole point, in his view, about EV's was the convenience of it. "What about having one in a winter climate?" I asked "Oh, the battery will just heat itself while it's idle, to be at the optimum temperature". The viewpoint of the people making these, at least in Detroit, is convenience. You never will have to go to the gas station again. You'll drive home, plug it in, drive to work, plug it in. The car is heated or cooled by the time you get into it to go to work. There is NO consideration about energy consumption involved.
Madness not what I have in mind at all. People are trying too hard to shoehorn what a space aged electric car should look like
No no no no - this wasn't designed to look like anything at all. It was designed to be optimal in an airstream. This is what a car designed to slide through the air with minimal air disturbance looks like. There might be some modifications to make it more visually appealing, but this was optimized to be efficient.
You end up with a teardrop shape for such a vehicle.
Tenpoundbass says
If you have a light weight car designed to be efficient but not necessarily built for speed. It does NOT have to be arrow dynamic. The speed and force wont be there for the drag to be a major factor.
The Aptera is designed for speed. If you don't care about speed at all, then it's just the motor you worry about.
Tenpoundbass says
And everyone poopoos the idea that a gas powered generator can power an electric vehicle with all of their negativity. But in the meantime, every time the power goes out, I hear generators running for 5 hours straight powering people's essential household electrical needs.
Well, I'm absolutely no expert in this area, but I know if you're going to be running a generator, there's loss, then you need to rectify the signal to DC, and there's loss there, then you need to discharge the batteries / ultra capacitors into a DC motor, and there's loss there.
It's POSSIBLE that at highway speeds, you'd be using minimal energy to keep it going, and you could have very good acceleration at lower speeds. You'd have to go through a bunch of research to find out if it would work. I know there are optimal speeds for a internal combustion engine for efficiency, but would running the engine at the speed offset all the other losses? I don't know.
The frustrating problem is, that with hybrids, they weren't designed to minimize energy consumption, they were designed so you had better acceleration with a crappier motor. I've talked to people that work for major car companies - they don't care about energy efficiency. It's literally the last thing on their mind. I was testing a DC fast charger with a prototype EV Jaguar, and the engineer totally didn't care about energy efficiency. The whole point, in his view, about EV's was the convenience of it. "What about having one in a winter climate?" I asked "Oh, the battery will just heat itself while it's idle, to be at the optimum temperature". The viewpoint of the people making these, at least in Detroit, is convenience. You never will have to go to the gas station again. You'll drive home, plug it in, drive to work, plug it in. The car is heated or cooled by the time you get into it to go to work. There is NO consideration about energy consumption involved.
26
HeadSet
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2023 Oct 21, 11:57am
HeadSet
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2023 Oct 21, 11:57am
Tenpoundbass says
Street legal efficient small electric vehicles already exist:
https://www.clubcar.com/en-us/commercial/street-legal-vehicles/club-car-urban
They have the efficiency of direct drive yet still require much more than 5 hp and top out around 25 mph.
"Compressed air" can store energy for short burst, but the air tank has to be refilled. Anyone running air tools understands this concept. You cannot leverage 5 hp into enough power to run a car at highway speeds through any transfer mechanism, no matter how exotic. Not unless you do something like run that 5 hp engine compressor for several hours to fill a tank that can run the car for a few minutes at highway speed before the pressure runs out.
That generator is rated at powering that 5hp 3 phase electric motor at 1.3 hours per gallon.
Street legal efficient small electric vehicles already exist:
https://www.clubcar.com/en-us/commercial/street-legal-vehicles/club-car-urban
They have the efficiency of direct drive yet still require much more than 5 hp and top out around 25 mph.
"Compressed air" can store energy for short burst, but the air tank has to be refilled. Anyone running air tools understands this concept. You cannot leverage 5 hp into enough power to run a car at highway speeds through any transfer mechanism, no matter how exotic. Not unless you do something like run that 5 hp engine compressor for several hours to fill a tank that can run the car for a few minutes at highway speed before the pressure runs out.
27
Tenpoundbass
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2023 Oct 21, 12:05pm
Tenpoundbass
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2023 Oct 21, 12:05pm
richwicks says
SO let's look at the panel in your home. You may have a 150 to 200 amp service panel in your home. And then in that panel in a modern home. You have a double 50 amp breaker for the AC, then if you have one of them fancy new fangled tankless water heater, they need 3 60amp breakers, then your stove will have a double 30amp breaker, your kitchen has up to 5 20amp breakers, each appliance has to be on its own 20 amp circuit, and not including the GFI in the bathroom. Then the rest of your circuits up to another 12 15 amp breakers.
Now this is all code and will pass. But if you do the math and add up all of the amps on every breaker you have going there. You're way over your Service panel capacity. This is because you don't' run everything at once. That service coming in from the street, guess what? It's carrying current for a the 20 to 100 houses in your neighborhood, giving each one 150 to 200 amps each. But there's no way in hell it could ever support every house consuming even 50% of the potential power. That is why you get brownouts and blackouts, and your power company offers programs to incentivize you to use less power during peak hours.
I hope by now, you're smart enough to realize where I'm going with this.
Sure the few richer than the rest in the neighborhood, the early adopters, that got an electric car and had their charging station installed, they are all doing fine and dandy. But when everyone in the whole neighborhood, adopts electric cars and has their charging stations installed. Then at quitting time when every working person in that community gets home, at 5 to 6 pm and plugs their car into the chargers. Transformers will start blowing.
Condo buildings are already starting have problems. They allowed so many residents to install charging stations at their parking space. Now as more and more owners are starting to do the same. The incoming service is starting to melt and burning up the main building service mains.
DC power needs the power source close by, the bigger the wire needs to be, it gets to the point, you can't pull a fat enough wire to accommodate the needs for all of those charging stations. You need a power plant near by.
And yes I'm hyping unproven tech, but I'm not saying it's ready and provable. I'm saying I would rather hear about research in these areas rather than the proven nonstarter that electric vehicles are. I believe hydrogen powered cars are more viable as an option for the masses over EVs.
You'll drive home, plug it in, drive to work, plug it in. The car is heated or cooled by the time you get into it to go to work. There is NO consideration about energy consumption involved.
SO let's look at the panel in your home. You may have a 150 to 200 amp service panel in your home. And then in that panel in a modern home. You have a double 50 amp breaker for the AC, then if you have one of them fancy new fangled tankless water heater, they need 3 60amp breakers, then your stove will have a double 30amp breaker, your kitchen has up to 5 20amp breakers, each appliance has to be on its own 20 amp circuit, and not including the GFI in the bathroom. Then the rest of your circuits up to another 12 15 amp breakers.
Now this is all code and will pass. But if you do the math and add up all of the amps on every breaker you have going there. You're way over your Service panel capacity. This is because you don't' run everything at once. That service coming in from the street, guess what? It's carrying current for a the 20 to 100 houses in your neighborhood, giving each one 150 to 200 amps each. But there's no way in hell it could ever support every house consuming even 50% of the potential power. That is why you get brownouts and blackouts, and your power company offers programs to incentivize you to use less power during peak hours.
I hope by now, you're smart enough to realize where I'm going with this.
Sure the few richer than the rest in the neighborhood, the early adopters, that got an electric car and had their charging station installed, they are all doing fine and dandy. But when everyone in the whole neighborhood, adopts electric cars and has their charging stations installed. Then at quitting time when every working person in that community gets home, at 5 to 6 pm and plugs their car into the chargers. Transformers will start blowing.
Condo buildings are already starting have problems. They allowed so many residents to install charging stations at their parking space. Now as more and more owners are starting to do the same. The incoming service is starting to melt and burning up the main building service mains.
DC power needs the power source close by, the bigger the wire needs to be, it gets to the point, you can't pull a fat enough wire to accommodate the needs for all of those charging stations. You need a power plant near by.
And yes I'm hyping unproven tech, but I'm not saying it's ready and provable. I'm saying I would rather hear about research in these areas rather than the proven nonstarter that electric vehicles are. I believe hydrogen powered cars are more viable as an option for the masses over EVs.
28
Tenpoundbass
@
2023 Oct 21, 12:11pm
Tenpoundbass
@
2023 Oct 21, 12:11pm
HeadSet says
The compressor would be to provide torque to get the vehicle going, then the 5hp motor with what ever gear ratio set up you have in a transfer case can take over to keep the car at speed. It may even accelerate fine once the car has enough inertia to allow the electric motor to do it's job.
Your AC runs on a DC 3 phase motor. It needs a start capacitor to get the compressor turning, once that happens, the motor churns the AC compressor just fine. But it wont budge the compressor at a cold start.
My thing is about killing the battery and need to charge them in EVs. Keep Gasoline or any other fuel, but use it to run efficient small engines, rather than huge powertrains.
"Compressed air" can store energy for short burst, but the air tank has to be refilled. Anyone running air tools understands this concept. You cannot leverage 5 hp into enough power to run a car at highway speeds through any transfer mechanism, no matter how exotic. Not unless you do something like run that 5 hp engine compressor for several hours to fill a tank that can run the car for a few minutes at highway speed before the pressure runs out.
The compressor would be to provide torque to get the vehicle going, then the 5hp motor with what ever gear ratio set up you have in a transfer case can take over to keep the car at speed. It may even accelerate fine once the car has enough inertia to allow the electric motor to do it's job.
Your AC runs on a DC 3 phase motor. It needs a start capacitor to get the compressor turning, once that happens, the motor churns the AC compressor just fine. But it wont budge the compressor at a cold start.
My thing is about killing the battery and need to charge them in EVs. Keep Gasoline or any other fuel, but use it to run efficient small engines, rather than huge powertrains.
29
HeadSet
@
2023 Oct 21, 12:24pm
HeadSet
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2023 Oct 21, 12:24pm
Tenpoundbass says
I see. Not a bad idea. Porshe said that it only takes 15hp to keep a 911 cruising at 60 mph.
The compressor would be to provide torque to get the vehicle going, then the 5hp motor with what ever gear ratio set up you have in a transfer case can take over to keep the car at speed. It may even accelerate fine once the car has enough inertia to allow the electric motor to do it's job.
I see. Not a bad idea. Porshe said that it only takes 15hp to keep a 911 cruising at 60 mph.
30
Tenpoundbass
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2023 Oct 21, 1:32pm
Tenpoundbass
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2023 Oct 21, 1:32pm
The electric motor I posted is capable of providing 1800 RPMs that's over 120mph.
The Air compressor gets the car going up to speed from a dead start. The motor can keep that speed constant. Then for highway acceleration you have an array of high powered Capacitors that fire in succession to provide acceleration once the wheels are moving. Though adding extra amperage to the motor to give it more power. Much like those AC start capacitors. As one discharges, the next one is already charged, and so on and on, by time it gets back to the first one it's fully charged again. Once up to speed the motor can handle keeping it going damn near 120mph only with that 5 hp motor.
The Air compressor gets the car going up to speed from a dead start. The motor can keep that speed constant. Then for highway acceleration you have an array of high powered Capacitors that fire in succession to provide acceleration once the wheels are moving. Though adding extra amperage to the motor to give it more power. Much like those AC start capacitors. As one discharges, the next one is already charged, and so on and on, by time it gets back to the first one it's fully charged again. Once up to speed the motor can handle keeping it going damn near 120mph only with that 5 hp motor.
31
richwicks
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2023 Oct 21, 3:13pm
richwicks
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2023 Oct 21, 3:13pm
Tenpoundbass says
Hydrogen is produced through a process called steam reformation using super heated water and natural gas. It's super expensive, but cheaper than if you make it by breaking water into oxygen and hydrogen. Hydrogen isn't viable, at least yet.
Natural gas powered cars would be.
I believe hydrogen powered cars are more viable as an option for the masses over EVs.
Hydrogen is produced through a process called steam reformation using super heated water and natural gas. It's super expensive, but cheaper than if you make it by breaking water into oxygen and hydrogen. Hydrogen isn't viable, at least yet.
Natural gas powered cars would be.
32
HeadSet
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2023 Oct 21, 3:47pm
HeadSet
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2023 Oct 21, 3:47pm
richwicks says
I have seen natural gas conversions since the 1970s. In the 1990s. Ford gave a fleet of natural gas powered Crown Vics to an Atlanta cab company to test. Virginia Natural Gas has converted all their pickup trucks to run on natural gas.
Natural gas powered cars would be.
I have seen natural gas conversions since the 1970s. In the 1990s. Ford gave a fleet of natural gas powered Crown Vics to an Atlanta cab company to test. Virginia Natural Gas has converted all their pickup trucks to run on natural gas.
33
richwicks
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2023 Oct 21, 8:27pm
richwicks
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2023 Oct 21, 8:27pm
HeadSet says
I don't believe they have the range that a conventional gas powered vehicle does, but they are cheap to run, and as I understand it (which may be in gross error), conversion from gas to natural gas is not too difficult or expensive and the engine can run on both fuels. I think it's regulations and taxation that prevents it.
richwicks says
Natural gas powered cars would be.
I have seen natural gas conversions since the 1970s. In the 1990s. Ford gave a fleet of natural gas powered Crown Vics to an Atlanta cab company to test. Virginia Natural Gas has converted all their pickup trucks to run on natural gas.
I don't believe they have the range that a conventional gas powered vehicle does, but they are cheap to run, and as I understand it (which may be in gross error), conversion from gas to natural gas is not too difficult or expensive and the engine can run on both fuels. I think it's regulations and taxation that prevents it.
34
AD
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2023 Oct 21, 9:06pm
AD
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2023 Oct 21, 9:06pm
Should invest to improve Amazon worker productivity such as better tools to do their job. This robot looks like R&D waste.
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« First « Previous Comments 25 - 34 of 34 Search these comments
Well NO actually they did not say that, the actual report is they created these huge robots to perform Warehouse tasks. It's the media that's hyping it as the human replacements. Which that's all Amazon wants, to put the human employees and future employees on notice that they are replaceable.
I don't think these robots will ever do it, but let take a look at the video and see if you can spot what's wrong with this idea.
original link
Besides it just being a 20 second video, and in spite of the human over there very slowly feeding the tubs on the conveyor belt. The tubs don't even look like they have much of a load. Those Robots looks flimsy and clumsy, why do they need headlights on their eyes? The whole operation there looked slow and feeble. That was 20 seconds of a robot hobbling to a table, then hobbling back.