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Not everyone can be smart. EV madness.


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2024 Jan 20, 2:37pm   1,536 views  55 comments

by GNL   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

We Didn’t Start the Fire . . .
By eric -January 17, 2024



Putting out an EV fire is the other problem. One arising from the problem that EVs can – and do – catch fire spontaneously, which is a new problem.

It was once the case that a car didn’t catch fire unless someone else ran into it – or it ran into something else – at a speed high enough to puncture the gas tank and cause the sparks (from mashing metal) needed to ignite the leaking gas.

Cars didn’t just catch fire – while parked – unless someone put a lit rag in the gas filler neck.

EVs, on the other hand, can – and do – catch fire when parked. Maybe not often, but that is beside the point. People don’t often get AIDs, either. But it’s prudent to avoid situations where AIDs might be acquired.

https://youtu.be/itGeAq9rBeY?si=mppfpcgsXAeqJ_6Q

Just so, it is prudent to avoid situations that might lead to your house catching fire. As by leaving an EV parked in the garage. Or even in the driveway, for that matter – as EV fires burn extremely hot and are extremely difficult to extinguish.

This brings up another problem:Dealing with EV fires.

And paying for it all.

EV battery fires are not like ordinary fires, which can be extinguished with water and – once extinguished – are extinguished. EV battery packs are not only susceptible to spontaneous combustion, they are capable of spontaneous re-ignition. They also cause the emission of extremely toxic gasses – as opposed to the innocuous gas (carbon dioxide) arising from the burning (in an engine) of gasoline. We breath in C02 (along with oxygen and nitrogen) with every breath we take – with no harmful effects.

Breathe in some of the gasses emitted by an EV fire and see what it does to your health.

Ask a fireman about that.

They use heavy duty gear – including self-contained breathing systems – to avoid breathing the emissions of EV battery fires. Because they’d die if they didn’t.

And they have special, expensive additional equipment to deal with EV battery fires that can only be suppressed rather than extinguished. For example (as in the video above) a special blanket to wrap the EV in, so as to try to dampen the fire. The soldering hulk is then dragged onto a flatbed and convoyed – with escorts – to the junkyard, where it must be set as far away from the other junk that’s already there, in order to prevent the smoldering hulk from catching all of that on fire, too.

EVs can also catch fire – and keep burning – when exposed to water.

https://youtu.be/MocjA8G2saI?si=ByJZISnz_5Dy4VGD

Under water.

You can probably guess who’s going to pay for all of this.

Expect your property tax bill to go up (again) in order to provide the fire department in your town/county with the additional equipment it needs to deal with the problem of EV battery fires – arising from the EV problem of spontaneous combustion. In addition to the problem of EVs catching fire when struck in an accident, which they are more prone to because all that’s needed to start a runaway reaction is damage to the battery pack.

A spark – the second necessary factor in a gasoline fire – is not necessary for a conflagration.

Expect something else, too.

Expect your insurance – both car and home – to increase, even if you do not own an EV or park one anywhere near your home. The costs generated by those who do own them will be transferred over to you, just the same as the cost of throwing away an otherwise-repairable car that is an economic throw-away due to the cost of replacing multiple air bags relative to the value of the car, itself, is already reflected in the costs were forced to pay for the insurance we’re required to buy.

In addition to what we’re (effectively) forced to buy when we buy a new car equipped with the air bags we’re required to buy as part of the deal. It’s interesting to note that these “safety” devices also have a tendency to catch fire spontaneously – as when their “inflator” system spontaneously triggers and the bag blows up in the victim’s face.

The air bag risk can be reduced but never eliminated. Just the same as regards EV battery pack spontaneous combustion.

It is interesting that such risks are considered acceptable by the very same people who often insist that any risk they regard as “too risky” must be ameliorated by any means they say necessary, no matter how much it costs.

And no matter how little the gain.

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1   GNL   2024 Jan 20, 2:40pm  

Did you catch that...higher property insurance for those who don't even own an EV because of the danger they cause to the nieghborhood + extra costs the fire departments have to bare even.
2   WookieMan   2024 Jan 20, 3:53pm  

I've been saying it. As the popularity of them grows, prices associated with them are going to go up. I keep my golf cart parked outside, 20' from the house at closest. If it burns all I can do is let the battery burn the son of a bitch. Oh well. Better than my house and I technically wouldn't even need to call the fire department. I know the risk with an electric cart.

A battery pack on a EV is significantly worse and usually you park it in your garage. While extremely rare I'd never park one of those in my garage. Ever. I wouldn't have the "it won't happen to me" attitude if I owned one. I would never put one of those things in a garage. Any model. Did I say that I wouldn't ever put one in my garage???

The best man in my wedding is related/works in fire services and owns the business. Don't want to dox myself too much. You never park EV's in a garage. You're not putting out a lithium battery fire. You have to try and save the house. The vehicle is destroyed 100% of the time. Park it on the street is all I'll say.
3   RayAmerica   2024 Jan 21, 7:08am  

Add electric bikes to the mix. I was interested in buying an electric bike because of the hills where I live are getting harder to climb (I'm sure age has nothing to do with it). With an E-Bike, you can still peddle but obviously you have the aid of the motor, making just about any hill manageable. However, after doing a lot of research, I decided against buying an E-Bike. I found that fires are occurring with E-Bikes as well. I have an attached garage, and if it caught fire in there, it would probably spread to the house as well.
4   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 21, 8:53am  

"Akshually", there was a number of recalls for ICE cars spontaneously combusting while parked. Ford, BMW and KIA come to mind. Much easier to put out though.

PS. Most recent covfefe: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-fire-risk-a1164933239/
5   GNL   2024 Jan 21, 9:49am  

RWSGFY says


"Akshually", there was a number of recalls for ICE cars spontaneously combusting while parked. Ford, BMW and KIA come to mind. Much easier to put out though.

PS. Most recent covfefe: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-fire-risk-a1164933239/

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.
6   richwicks   2024 Jan 21, 10:17am  

GNL says

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.


A minor accident with any EV can potentially compromise the battery. EVs in just minor collisions are frequently totaled.
7   GNL   2024 Jan 21, 10:25am  

richwicks says

GNL says


While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.


A minor accident with any EV can potentially compromise the battery. EVs in just minor collisions are frequently totaled.

Are you saying it is bad engineering? I posit that no matter how you engineer a Tesla, the battery will always be susceptible to fires.
8   stereotomy   2024 Jan 21, 11:06am  

It's like millions of tiny versions of the Hindenburg driving around and being parked in garages. The point here is that Li-ion is an inherently dangerous battery technology due to its very high (for a battery) energy density, which, in massive quantities is very unstable. It's analogous to nuclear materials. A little bit of uranium or plutonium is, aside from radioactivity and heavy metal toxicity, not a catastrophic risk. Put together a substantial multiple of critical masses of the stuff, and it's guaranteed to chain react.

That much potential energy will, if triggered, create a massive exothermic reaction.

Anyone ever ignite magnesium foil? That only burns at 2000 degrees, and you can trigger it with a cigarette lighter.
9   richwicks   2024 Jan 21, 11:14am  

GNL says

Are you saying it is bad engineering? I posit that no matter how you engineer a Tesla, the battery will always be susceptible to fires.


I wouldn't say it's bad engineering, I'm saying that it's an overall bad concept. It's not the design that is flawed, they have probably made it as safe as it's possible to make. It's a bad product, and I don't think any amount of engineering will make it safe.

But you can argue that a gasoline car is dangerous as well, that's just a bunch of flammable liquid that can easily become explosive. I just think batteries are worse.
10   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jan 21, 1:15pm  

Where's @Eman and @socal2? Aren't they supposed to be hijacking threads like this and turning them into Tesla Fluffer Porn?
11   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 21, 3:18pm  

GNL says


RWSGFY says


"Akshually", there was a number of recalls for ICE cars spontaneously combusting while parked. Ford, BMW and KIA come to mind. Much easier to put out though.

PS. Most recent covfefe: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-fire-risk-a1164933239/

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.



Why? Samsung phone battery fires were definitely because of bad engineering. Same for Li batteries igniting on planes - remember these? Both apparently not an issue anymore. Same for Tesla: if they are self-combusting it means some re-engineering is in order.
12   RayAmerica   2024 Jan 21, 3:20pm  

It isn't just EVs ...

Green Globalist Disaster: E-Bikes Caused Record Fires, Injuries, and Deaths Last Year In NYC

(Zero Hedge)—Electric bicycles were responsible for a record number of fires, injuries and deaths in New York City last year.

In total, e-bikes caused 267 fires, causing 18 deaths and 150 injuries in the city, the New York Fire Department (FDNY) told Fox News, which notes that the figures represent the highest levels of each statistic – with deaths jumping 200% and fires increasing 21% over last year.

A couple of very interesting videos:
https://conservativeplaybook.com/green-globalist-disaster-e-bikes-caused-record-fires-injuries-and-deaths-last-year-in-nyc/
13   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 21, 4:34pm  

RayAmerica says


It isn't just EVs ...

Green Globalist Disaster: E-Bikes Caused Record Fires, Injuries, and Deaths Last Year In NYC

(Zero Hedge)—Electric bicycles were responsible for a record number of fires, injuries and deaths in New York City last year.

In total, e-bikes caused 267 fires, causing 18 deaths and 150 injuries in the city, the New York Fire Department (FDNY) told Fox News, which notes that the figures represent the highest levels of each statistic – with deaths jumping 200% and fires increasing 21% over last year.

A couple of very interesting videos:
https://conservativeplaybook.com/green-globalist-disaster-e-bikes-caused-record-fires-injuries-and-deaths-last-year-in-nyc/


Right. Most of these are made in Chyna literally in sheds to a lowesr price point possible. Engineering? What engineering? And good luck finding the manufacturer and holding it accountable.

With cars the game is completely different and in the US NTHSA will be breathing down your neck the very next day your jalopies start self-combusting. It's "make your shit not self-immolate or die" kinda situation.
14   GNL   2024 Jan 21, 4:45pm  

RWSGFY says

Why? Samsung phone battery fires were definitely because of bad engineering. Same for Li batteries igniting on planes - remember these? Both apparently not an issue anymore. Same for Tesla: if they are self-combusting it means some re-engineering is in order.

Maybe because there is a limitation?
15   WookieMan   2024 Jan 21, 4:49pm  

RWSGFY says

With cars the game is completely different and in the US NTHSA will be breathing down your neck the very next day your jalopies start self-combusting.

I'd agree, but that 1 in 100,000 chance is not worth it. You can't put those fires out. You're generally trying to save your home at that point and the car is for sure totaled. Hopefully your life and family isn't.

Spec/stock ICE cars will not start on fire sitting in the garage. EV's cannot make this claim. I have no interest in potentially killing my family over an overpriced car that's fun to drive. Oh and while I was in FL and the Bahamas last week the Teslas simply didn't work. Couldn't charge in Chicago. 50% of the country gets freezing temps in the winter consistently. The worst possible time to not have a functioning car. Count me out.
16   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 21, 5:23pm  

WookieMan says


RWSGFY says


With cars the game is completely different and in the US NTHSA will be breathing down your neck the very next day your jalopies start self-combusting.

I'd agree, but that 1 in 100,000 chance is not worth it. You can't put those fires out. You're generally trying to save your home at that point and the car is for sure totaled. Hopefully your life and family isn't.

Spec/stock ICE cars will not start on fire sitting in the garage. EV's cannot make this claim.



I literally posted a link on a recall for self-combusting ICE cars with a recommendation to not park in a garage until modified by dealer.

Yes, they are harder to put out. No, they are not supposed to self-ignite if engineered properly. No differenf from phones or laptops or batteries on planes.
17   GNL   2024 Jan 21, 6:28pm  

RWSGFY says

I literally posted a link on a recall for self-combusting ICE cars with a recommendation to not park in a garage until modified by dealer.

Yes, they are harder to put out. No, they are not supposed to self-ignite if engineered properly. No differenf from phones or laptops or batteries on planes.

Why can't the manufactuerers be sued into oblivion?
18   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 21, 6:30pm  

GNL says

RWSGFY says


I literally posted a link on a recall for self-combusting ICE cars with a recommendation to not park in a garage until modified by dealer.

Yes, they are harder to put out. No, they are not supposed to self-ignite if engineered properly. No differenf from phones or laptops or batteries on planes.

Why can't the manufactuerers be sued into oblivion?


Not enough failures for that, apparently.
19   B.A.C.A.H.   2024 Jan 21, 7:03pm  

RWSGFY says

Akshually

Did you attend K-12 in Oaktown?
20   Reality   2024 Jan 21, 8:14pm  

RWSGFY says


No, they are not supposed to self-ignite if engineered properly. No differenf from phones or laptops or batteries on planes.


Not quite the same from a purely engineering perspective: if each lithium battery has a 1 in a million chance of shorting out in a month, a laptop with 4 lithium cells would have only 1 in 250k chance . . . whereas an EV with 5000 cells would have 0.999999^5000 = 0.995 safety, or 1 in 200 chance of starting a fire (thermo run-away event), a ship transporting 100 EV's like that mixed in its cargo hold of thousands of cars would have only 60% chance of crossing the Atlantic or the Pacific (surviving one month at sea). The nature of the thermo run-away fire makes the system inherently unsafe when the large numbers pile up.

The above illustration only took into account risk associated with each lithium cell, not even taking into account the additional risks of each soldering point connecting lithium cells to each other or soldering debris left in the battery aggregate packs or cars' battery storage boxes.
21   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 21, 10:43pm  

Making them from thousands of cells is an engineering choice. It's not set in stone that it has to be done this way.
22   AD   2024 Jan 21, 10:50pm  

RWSGFY says

Not enough failures for that, apparently.


yeah good point as far as class action lawsuit , i was thinking of ralph nader's book unsafe at any speed ... need him or his successors (if there are any) to write a book about EV's

problem is any ralph nader successor likely would be progressive and ideologically biased (and/or bought off) to not criticize EV's unless it is just to sabotage elon musk

.
23   WookieMan   2024 Jan 22, 12:33am  

ad says


problem is any ralph nader successor likely would be progressive and ideologically biased (and/or bought off) to not criticize EV's unless it is just to sabotage elon musk

My dislike for EV's is people that say they're cheaper. I have no issue with Musk outside of being a massive government grifter in multiple industries. He wouldn't be able to do what he does without credits on products and literal cash from the government. He seems like a fun dude you could be friends with.

Depending on the model of Tesla you can get a similar sized car (or bigger) for $20-50k less. Say you finance it for 4 years or pay cash. In the financed scenario that's $5k/yr-$12.5k/yr on the high end instead of getting a hybrid. I drive a full ICE V-8 Nissan Armada. I spend maybe $3-4k on gas and it cost less than a Tesla. Has more utility and space. I know there will be a gas station, so no need to search for chargers. No need to worry about cold.

Now factor in something like a RAV-4 hybrid and my daily commute would be $0 in gas. You can get slightly used ones for $30k. I wouldn't qualify for the $7,500 tax credit due to income so full sticker price. Tesla mini "SUV" models are smaller and substantially more expensive.

There's not anything in this comment that can be denied. It's actual fact that Tesla owners just wanted a fun car to drive. And that's okay. I don't care, but I do care that the owners lie about the costs. It's simply not true. It will not be cheaper than a full ICE vehicle or hybrid. Never has. Gas savings are minimal and that's just for now.

For where a Tesla is best operated, it makes no sense to spend $20k+ versus comparable cars. Hell they don't even hold a charge in half the country this time of year. It's fun to drive and status. Plain and simple. It's not an argument. Just would appreciate owners would stop lying and just own up to their insecurities.
24   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Jan 23, 10:04pm  

WookieMan says

For where a Tesla is best operated, it makes no sense to spend $20k+ versus comparable cars. Hell they don't even hold a charge in half the country this time of year. It's fun to drive and status. Plain and simple. It's not an argument. Just would appreciate owners would stop lying and just own up to their insecurities.


Yup.
25   AD   2024 Jan 23, 11:08pm  

Need innovation like this. This is what Tesla envisioned and researched about "ambient energy" harvesting. Just need to refine and scale this up

https://news.mit.edu/2024/self-powered-sensor-harvests-magnetic-energy-0118
26   HeadSet   2024 Jan 24, 7:33am  

AD says

Need innovation like this. This is what Tesla envisioned and researched about "ambient energy" harvesting. Just need to refine and scale this up

https://news.mit.edu/2024/self-powered-sensor-harvests-magnetic-energy-0118

I had a pocket compass that did that. It harvested the "ambient energy" of the Earth's magnetic field to spin a needle to point north. I also built a "crystal radio" as a kid that pulled "ambient energy" from the strongest local radio broadcast to power listening to the station I chose (1920's tech). My point is that "ambient energy" is only good for very low power devices.
27   GNL   2024 Jan 24, 6:42pm  

It took three long years for Sickness Psychosis to wane. Eventually, enough people figured out that the sickness was mostly in the mind – and that wearing “masks” wasn’t the cure for it.

EV Fever seems to be following a similar trajectory. Finally. It may now be at the point that “masking” was at about two years ago. As in, people are getting over it. And so, apparently, is the stock market.

Tesla stock is down 15 percent, representing a $94 billion loss so far. Bloomberg News styles this a “reality check as EV winter sets in.” The Financial Post says 2024 is the company’s “worst start to any year – ever.”
29   AD   2024 Jan 24, 7:16pm  

GNL says

Tesla stock is down 15 percent, representing a $94 billion loss so far. Bloomberg News styles this a “reality check as EV winter sets in.” The Financial Post says 2024 is the company’s “worst start to any year – ever.”


yeah as the EV mania has waned ....so its steady growth from here on out ...

just look at retail stocks which have cooled down after the COVID consumer mania ... Best Buy all time high of about $137 was in late 2021, now it is around $73...

China exports have suffered a lot ...and its economy is in bad shape

...

...
30   AD   2024 Jan 24, 7:28pm  

HeadSet says


My point is


Just need more creativity and imagination to produce innovation as far as scaling up and advancing already existing technology within physics constraints like first law of thermodynamics ... material science and material engineering is most of the answer to this

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/easy-to-build-tesla-generator-free-energy-magnetic-capacitor--514395588692187043/

https://www.greenoptimistic.com/tesla-generator/

.
31   socal2   2024 Jan 24, 7:33pm  

GNL says

Tesla stock is down 15 percent, representing a $94 billion loss so far. Bloomberg News styles this a “reality check as EV winter sets in.” The Financial Post says 2024 is the company’s “worst start to any year – ever.”


The other OEM EV's are in trouble for sure. Tesla will be the last man standing as they are the only ones that have figured out how to make EV's at a profit. Their manufacturing/technology and battery production lead is unassailable. So Tesla has huge margins and can afford to drop their prices this past year to make up for higher interest rates and it's absolutely killing the old dinosaur OEM's trying to make EV's. So they are all backing away and bad mouthing it to the finance media.

Q4 earnings came out today and expect big drop in stock price tomorrow because moron CNBC finance media don't understand anything and hate Elon Musk.

I am buying MOAR at the dip.
32   WookieMan   2024 Jan 25, 5:19am  

I do like Tesla despite what seems like constant bashing from me. It’s a regional car that’s expensive compared to alternatives. They’re nearing market saturation. It doesn’t save money. Not green. Doesn’t work well in rural areas which is about 80% of America. It’s simply fun to drive and that’s it.

I don’t like stock predictions but I don’t see how Tesla can continue to sustain.

As I’ve said a day of reckoning is coming. This is from a deep blue green tard state/city…. https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/COFA/OtherReports/MFT.pdf
33   Tenpoundbass   2024 Jan 25, 5:35am  

I had an auto mechanic saying he's all for every car being electric one day.
By time I told him all of the reasons why they wont be, he was convinced otherwise. He tried to stop me, thinking the only negative thing I was going to say, is how hard the rare earth materials are to come by. But that one is the last one on my list. As we have 10 times more than China does, but it's locked up in National Parks like Yellow Stone.

It's a nice technology, that if it wasn't being shoe horned, it would be much more stable and practical. If you like electric cars, then you should get an electric car. They should not be subsidized, nor should every model be a spying smart luxury car.

The day electric cars become the only means, driving will no longer be a privilege but a class. A class that most people wont be a part of. They will dictate who gets to have or not have a car.
34   socal2   2024 Jan 25, 5:15pm  

Tenpoundbass says

It's a nice technology, that if it wasn't being shoe horned, it would be much more stable and practical. If you like electric cars, then you should get an electric car. They should not be subsidized, nor should every model be a spying smart luxury car.


No disagreement there.
35   zzyzzx   2024 Jan 26, 9:13am  

WookieMan says

I keep my golf cart parked outside, 20' from the house at closest. If it burns all I can do is let the battery burn the son of a bitch. Oh well. Better than my house and I technically wouldn't even need to call the fire department. I know the risk with an electric cart.


Swap out the lithium batteries for AGM batteries.
36   Eric Holder   2024 Jan 26, 11:06am  

zzyzzx says

WookieMan says


I keep my golf cart parked outside, 20' from the house at closest. If it burns all I can do is let the battery burn the son of a bitch. Oh well. Better than my house and I technically wouldn't even need to call the fire department. I know the risk with an electric cart.


Swap out the lithium batteries for AGM batteries.


He's just invested shitload of money into the lithiums. Swapping them again would be imprudent.
38   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 29, 3:39pm  

UkraineIsFucked says

https://realclearwire.com/articles/2024/01/28/so_many_problems_continue_to_plague_the_ev_industry_1007949.html


Of course 430mpg is baloney, because when renting Teslas my calculated fuel price per mile came out at 16 cents while Camry Hybrid was 13 cents per mile in fuel only. Camry Hybrid is not rated 400+ mpg, is it?
39   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Feb 7, 8:57am  

EVs are just a niche market.

(Tesla Fluffers HATE when this FACT is presented)

November, nearly 3,900 automobile dealers across the country sent a letter to President Biden telling him that EV demand is “not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. BEVs are stacking up on our lots." They continued, saying EVs are “not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships.”

As I explained in the written testimony I submitted to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee last month, EVs have always been a niche-market product, not a mass-market one. And that niche market is dominated by wealthy, white, male, liberal voters who live in a handful of heavily Democratic cities and counties.
Further, that niche market is primarily defined by class and ideology. Some 57% of EV owners earn more than $100,000 annually, 75% are male, and 87% are white. Last March, Gallup reported, “a substantial majority of Republicans, 71%, say they would not consider owning an electric vehicle.”

Last October, researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, released a remarkable study that found “counties with affluent left-leaning cities” like Cambridge, San Francisco, and Seattle “play a disproportionately large role in driving the entire national increase in EV adoption.” The researchers found that over the past decade, about half of all the EVs sold in the U.S. were sold in the most heavily Democratic counties in the country. The summary of the study deserves quoting at length:
The prospect for EVs as a climate change solution hinges on their widespread adoption across the political spectrum. In this paper, we use detailed county-level data on new vehicle registrations from 2012-2022 to measure the degree to which EV adoption is concentrated in the most left-leaning U.S. counties. The results point to a strong and enduring correlation between political ideology and U.S. EV adoption. During our time period about half of all EVs went to the 10% most Democratic counties, and about one-third went to the top 5%. There is relatively little evidence that this correlation has decreased over time, and even some specifications that point to increasing correlation. The results suggest that it may be harder than previously believed to reach high levels of U.S. EV adoption.” (Emphasis added.)

Ford and the other big automakers have been spending billions of dollars to cater to the whims of a tiny segment of the overall car market — a segment heavily concentrated in a handful of liberal counties. That’s a lousy business strategy. But it is an even worse strategy for federal policymakers who must be responsive to the transportation needs of every American, not just those who live in liberal cities and large, wealthy states

In October, the chairman of Toyota Motor Corporation, Akio Toyoda, gloated about his company’s success with hybrids and the friction other automakers face in the EV business. Toyoda said automakers are "finally seeing reality" about all-electric cars. Unfortunately for Ford and its shareholders, finally seeing reality comes with multi-billion-dollar losses.

A final note: Ford’s EV sales in January fell by 11% compared to the same period last year. There’s more carnage ahead for FoMoCo.


https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-47b-on-evs-last-year-or
40   GNL   2024 Feb 7, 8:12pm  

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2024/02/07/the-plunge-begins/

"Hertz just shot off the flares. It will not be “fully electrified” by 2024 – as it had said it would be back in 2020. It is already much less “electrified.” Hertz may have closed the water tight doors just in time."

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