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Not everyone can be smart. EV madness.


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2024 Jan 20, 2:37pm   1,849 views  55 comments

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We Didn’t Start the Fire . . .
By eric -January 17, 2024



Putting out an EV fire is the other problem. One arising from the problem that EVs can – and do – catch fire spontaneously, which is a new problem.

It was once the case that a car didn’t catch fire unless someone else ran into it – or it ran into something else – at a speed high enough to puncture the gas tank and cause the sparks (from mashing metal) needed to ignite the leaking gas.

Cars didn’t just catch fire – while parked – unless someone put a lit rag in the gas filler neck.

EVs, on the other hand, can – and do – catch fire when parked. Maybe not often, but that is beside the point. People don’t often get AIDs, either. But it’s prudent to avoid situations where AIDs might be acquired.

https://youtu.be/itGeAq9rBeY?si=mppfpcgsXAeqJ_6Q

Just so, it is prudent to avoid situations that might lead to your house catching fire. As by leaving an EV parked in the garage. Or even in the driveway, for that matter – as EV fires burn extremely hot and are extremely difficult to extinguish.

This brings up another problem:Dealing with EV fires.

And paying for it all.

EV battery fires are not like ordinary fires, which can be extinguished with water and – once extinguished – are extinguished. EV battery packs are not only susceptible to spontaneous combustion, they are capable of spontaneous re-ignition. They also cause the emission of extremely toxic gasses – as opposed to the innocuous gas (carbon dioxide) arising from the burning (in an engine) of gasoline. We breath in C02 (along with oxygen and nitrogen) with every breath we take – with no harmful effects.

Breathe in some of the gasses emitted by an EV fire and see what it does to your health.

Ask a fireman about that.

They use heavy duty gear – including self-contained breathing systems – to avoid breathing the emissions of EV battery fires. Because they’d die if they didn’t.

And they have special, expensive additional equipment to deal with EV battery fires that can only be suppressed rather than extinguished. For example (as in the video above) a special blanket to wrap the EV in, so as to try to dampen the fire. The soldering hulk is then dragged onto a flatbed and convoyed – with escorts – to the junkyard, where it must be set as far away from the other junk that’s already there, in order to prevent the smoldering hulk from catching all of that on fire, too.

EVs can also catch fire – and keep burning – when exposed to water.

https://youtu.be/MocjA8G2saI?si=ByJZISnz_5Dy4VGD

Under water.

You can probably guess who’s going to pay for all of this.

Expect your property tax bill to go up (again) in order to provide the fire department in your town/county with the additional equipment it needs to deal with the problem of EV battery fires – arising from the EV problem of spontaneous combustion. In addition to the problem of EVs catching fire when struck in an accident, which they are more prone to because all that’s needed to start a runaway reaction is damage to the battery pack.

A spark – the second necessary factor in a gasoline fire – is not necessary for a conflagration.

Expect something else, too.

Expect your insurance – both car and home – to increase, even if you do not own an EV or park one anywhere near your home. The costs generated by those who do own them will be transferred over to you, just the same as the cost of throwing away an otherwise-repairable car that is an economic throw-away due to the cost of replacing multiple air bags relative to the value of the car, itself, is already reflected in the costs were forced to pay for the insurance we’re required to buy.

In addition to what we’re (effectively) forced to buy when we buy a new car equipped with the air bags we’re required to buy as part of the deal. It’s interesting to note that these “safety” devices also have a tendency to catch fire spontaneously – as when their “inflator” system spontaneously triggers and the bag blows up in the victim’s face.

The air bag risk can be reduced but never eliminated. Just the same as regards EV battery pack spontaneous combustion.

It is interesting that such risks are considered acceptable by the very same people who often insist that any risk they regard as “too risky” must be ameliorated by any means they say necessary, no matter how much it costs.

And no matter how little the gain.

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41   AD   2024 Feb 8, 12:13am  

I think Tesla will still be standing, but as posted on Patrick.net, the major automakers are downsizing their EV manufacturing.

I think Tesla is going to be improving steadily such as providing up to 600 miles range for even the cheapest of its EV's, the Tesla 3. And this will happen with Tesla still using lithium batteries.

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.
42   WookieMan   2024 Feb 8, 3:29am  

Eric Holder says

He's just invested shitload of money into the lithiums. Swapping them again would be imprudent.

This is correct. Free cart and AGM batteries weren't a ton cheaper. So the expense was kind of nothing. It's quick with less weight. I can zip around town for pennies. It's nice during the warmer months to get around to the grocery store, gas station and neighbors. Still use it to get the mail in winter at our CBU. I like being outside and fresh air.

I'll trash EV's all day for various reasons. They're cheaper on paper. The government is coming for them though. You can't use the roads for free basically. I don't know the rates everywhere, but isn't is something like 20¢/gallon in most places for gas? It's nothing, but I'll save $200/yr not driving my cart around town. 10 year warranty on the battery.

I've got two lots 3 blocks away. So much easier to use the cart to get there. Still have to drive the car and mower over there, but we'e gonna start our garden of the future over there now as we build. It's going to be big. So a daily trip is easy with the cart.
44   richwicks   2024 Mar 31, 12:54am  

AD says

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.


I doubt this. Hydrogen fuel cells are a very poor way to store energy. First, it's not made by cracking water into oxygen and hydrogen, it's using steam reformation where natural gas is turned into CO2 and Hydrogen in a process. Second, hydrogen is expensive. Third, it's freaking hard to store, that stuff is reactive, very reactive. Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.

Using electrolysis to break water into hydrogen and oxygen seems like a good idea, until you realize it's only 50% efficient. Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule, and as I said, highly reactive so hard to store.

Another problem is compressing it, THAT takes a lot of energy as well. It's like 5 times more expensive than gas per unit of energy as well.
45   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Mar 31, 7:59am  

richwicks says

Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.


And the little fucker Hydrogen atoms can slip through the steel molecules. So, leakage losses.
46   HeadSet   2024 Mar 31, 8:49am  

richwicks says

Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule

?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.
47   Tenpoundbass   2024 Mar 31, 9:33am  

EV enthusiasts : Of Course EVs will be expense at first! But the idea is for everyone to adopt them so the price will eventually come down. I don't mind being an early adopter.

Also EV enthusiasts : What the fuck my $65K EV is now only worth $20K

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says





48   richwicks   2024 Mar 31, 10:39am  

HeadSet says

richwicks says


Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule

?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.


Nope, it's got the lowest density of any molecule or atom, that's why it floats. It floats better than helium does, but its highly reactive.

You've seen the periodic table:



On the left, atoms are as big as they can be, and they get smaller going to the right, but they explode in size on the far right. On the far right are the noble. I think only helium is more dense than the element on the far right.

Basically, every element has one more proton than the element preceding it. Picks up neutrons as well, so as you move down, it gets denser and denser.

A chemist or a physicist can explain why better than I can.
49   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Mar 31, 11:19am  

Hydrogen's reactivity IS WHERE the energy comes from. Oxidation in particular.
50   richwicks   2024 Mar 31, 11:26am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Hydrogen's reactivity IS WHERE the energy comes from. Oxidation in particular.


Sure, but it's damned reactive. It makes metal brittle over time, so how do you contain the damned stuff?

It sure seemed like a good idea back when I was a kid to use hydrogen to store excess electricity for later use, but it turns out to be a terrible way of doing it
51   RWSGFY   2024 Mar 31, 8:21pm  

AD says


I think Tesla will still be standing, but as posted on Patrick.net, the major automakers are downsizing their EV manufacturing.

I think Tesla is going to be improving steadily such as providing up to 600 miles range for even the cheapest of its EV's, the Tesla 3. And this will happen with Tesla still using lithium batteries.

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.


Toyota is into 2nd gen
of their H2 fuel cell cars and it's not looking good: they are giving $22-40K discount on every new one and throw in $15K fuel card. Even used ones come with the card. There is a 2019 Mirai with 30K miles on the clock being sold as CPO for $9K at the local dealer and it comes with a $15K card. And it's eligible for $4K in Fed tax rebates plus whatever is CA giving out ($2K?).

BTW, at current hydrogen fuel prices $15K gives you ~30K miles.
52   WookieMan   2024 Apr 1, 3:04am  

Love or hate the car, but Toyota did get it right with the Prius. Not practical for my uses, but hybrids were and are the future. You need gas. That's undeniable. You cannot charge a battery quickly.

Wife is about to drive down to St. Louis area. She'd have to stop and charge and waste an hour to finish the trip. She grosses $913/hr in sales likely this year. 365 days, every hour. That hour charging cost $900. Who cares if it's free? That would be $60 in gas and maybe $30 in time. You're talking a $700-800 difference in time savings. AND you paid more for the car than her SUV. An EV would easily cost my family $10k more than an ICE. So maybe I'm biased.

I don't get the argument over this. EV's are shit unless you drive 10-20 miles a day and charge at home. I guess my opinion is based off our driving habits. No EV on the market would remotely work for us without losing tons of money.
54   socal2   2024 Apr 2, 6:32pm  

WookieMan says

EV's are shit unless you drive 10-20 miles a day and charge at home.


That is over 60% of the available US car market!

Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.

Hybrids are still retarded with twice the complexity and twice the maintenance and things to go wrong compared to straight up BEV's - they are not much cheaper and you don't get the massive performance of a Tesla. I don't drive Tesla's to save gas or be environmental. I drive them because they are the most powerful and advanced car I can afford. How is that not understandable? I can't afford a comparable Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.

I spend alot of time driving - life's too short to drive something boring or weak if you have some options.
55   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Apr 2, 7:40pm  

socal2 says

That is over 60% of the available US car market!

Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.

Hybrids are still retarded with twice the complexity and twice the maintenance and things to go wrong compared to straight up BEV's - they are not much cheaper and you don't get the massive performance of a Tesla. I don't drive Tesla's to save gas or be environmental. I drive them because they are the most powerful and advanced car I can afford. How is that not understandable? I can't afford a comparable Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.

I spend alot of time driving - life's too short to drive something boring or weak if you have some options.



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